It is tiring to educate people on the issue of “kalimah Allah”. And it is even more exhausting to think that we have to explain to certain group of muslims on why the word ‘Allah’ should not be used by christians here.
Muslims in general, if they had known the real reason on why here in Malaysia it is offensive for christians to use it, they should not be supporting a church in Selangor who remained recalcitrant and arrogant in continuing the use of the word Allah in their hymns and masses.
Even people like Marina Mahathir and her like minded muslims friends are too ignorant and could not fathom the reason on why christians here in Malaysia should not use the word Allah in the face of the majority of Malaysians. And who are the majority of Malaysians? The muslims of course.
So here is the answer from a renown scholar by the name Dr. Zakir Naik. The answer gets interesting after the 2.30 minute mark. This is 9 minute video in which the muslims and the christians should watch:
Basically, what Dr Zakir is saying, christians can use the word Allah – but if you associate Allah (the one True God) with Jesus Christ or the Trinity, then you are ‘kufur’. Why would us muslims want to permit ourselves to become kufur just like the christians?
Why would Marina Mahathir, who worships Allah S.W.T. whereby Allah that she worships does not have a son, and certainly have got nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, is crying on top of her lungs to defend the christians on their right to equate Allah with Jesus, or Allah with the Holy Spirit?
Now this is why it is offensive for muslims (except for some muslim politicians and the more liberal muslims) to see the christians using the word Allah in their christian and sermons.
Those liberal muslims are so naive in their freedom of speech and religion of other people they forgot what effect this will have on muslims here.
The christians in Malaysia especially in Selangor have never used the word Allah in any of their prayers before. We at this blog have never met any of our christian friends who had prayed to Allah all this while. And apparently, not all christian churches in Malaysia agreed to use the word Allah in their mass. To them, Allah as a God is a different concept altogether from their own understanding of God – Yahweh, Jesus Christ etc.
If you are christian and reading this, do you use Allah in any of your prayers? Unless of course you are that small part of East Malaysians who actually used the word Allah in their bibles over there. But that is another matter which will be discussed later below.
But first, what is the agenda of this one Father Lawrence Andrew who insisted that christians in Selangor must be given the right to use the word Allah? Why is he so insensitive to jeopardise the harmonious relationship between muslims and christians over here? Christianity teaches blatant disregard towards tolerance and
If Father Lawrence himself never prayed to Allah all these years, it will be hypocritical for him to start now. It does not matter if he lamely stated that just recently, his flock has many East Malaysians now. Is he saying that being tolerant towards the sensitivities of muslims in Selangor takes a back seat over the need of much smaller community?
There should be give and take when looking at the bigger picture.
The other problem besides the muslims giving permission for other people to equate Allah towards something the He is not (syirik), is the potential fraud and subterfuge that comes with the use of Allah in Christianity.
This was somewhat shown in one of the previous article “Worshiping Jesus in Islam”. This time, the covert Christian evangelicals and their tactics can even be read openly in their portals such as the article “Son and The Crescent” in the Christian Today portal, as well as in the article “Case for God“. The links provided in latter has examples on the proselytisation of muslims into christians.
The evangelicals use tactics which they term as Conceptualisation and Localisation when preaching christianity to muslims. They use terms and jargons familiar with the muslims in the effort to convert them. To cut the story short, that is the reason why the malay bibles exist today with the word ‘Allah’ transcribed into them instead of the word ‘Tuhan’ which is a more logical translation for God.
Ultimately, the christians in East Malaysia during the British era was taught the bible using the bibles from Indonesia and this is what the Father Lawrence and Marina Mahathir is frighting today – that the christians in East Malaysia have used the word Allah in their bibles for centuries, which incidentally, this argument is based on the wrong facts and entirely founded on the grounds of subterfuge propagated by the christian missionaries a couple of centuries ago. How unfortunate.
Below is the video by christians, for the christians on how they covertly change their proselytisation technique to suit every culture they come across. What these evangelicals want it to spread Christianity and Jesus Christ around the world.
This deception and double-dealing is something that is real which muslims must be wary about. We have enough agitators which want nothing more than to see chaos and racial upheaval in Malaysia so that they can benefit from it one way or another. Does Father Lawrence want to see this happen by remaining stubborn and wilfully defiant?
Even an imam (Imam Muhammad Musri) from in the USA recently wrote something in Huffington Post recently. Although he is quite ignorant in his article especially pertaining to the real happenings here in Malaysia, he did mention about the stealth of christians in trying to proselytise muslims:
His only ignorance is when he thought the word ‘Allah’ is the right term for ‘God’ among Malaysians. Which is definitely not true. The right term for God is Tuhan. For Malaysians, Allah is an arabic word recognised only by muslims as God.
But as Muhammad Musri said above, fraud (stealth proselytisation) deserves appropriate penalties (which obviously is stated in our own Constitution) and it is up to the muslims to defend themselves against these tricksters.
As a conclusion, there are two fronts on why the muslims are against the word ‘Allah’ being used by the Christians:
1) they do not want to be an accomplice when some people equate Allah for something He is not, and;
2) the element of trickery evidenced by the centuries of proselytisation methods among the evangelicals towards the unsuspecting muslims.
If you are a muslim and your iman is strong, congratulations. But there are many muslims out there who are ignorant and not strong enough to counter the onslaught from some christian missionaries whose sole objective is to bring the muslims to embrace christianity.
If you have not listened to what Dr Zakir Naik said in the video above, please do so. It will give you some comprehension on the subject. And please watch the second too. Thank you.
jebatmustdie 
They are actually politicians exploiting religion for a takeover of governance from the Malays. They INTEND to split the Bumiputeras into two separate and in effect, minority groups of Malay Muslims and Christian Orang Asli.
The desired result will be uniting all chinese, Christian Indians and Christian Bumiputeras. And of course together with the PAS Muslims and other pakatan groups.
If PAS and PKR Muslims are willing to “sell” the kalimah Allah for political mileage, Malaysia will one day become a republic.
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As for Marina Mahathir, her only value to her adoring exploitative “fans” is just one teeny factor – being dear Tun Dr Mahathir’s daughter. She has done, just a speck of useless dust for Malaysians, in comparison to her illustrious Dad.
What a shame!
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Hmm….which came first, Christianity or Islam?
Ironically, it’s the Judaism or the Jewish faith that predates both subsequent religions.
And yet the Jews are disputing with the Arabs over the existence of Israel as a Jewish state!
One argue that Christianity has “first mover” advantage over Islam.
So, why accuse Christians of “converting by stealth” when Christianity is the elder of the two “religions of the book”?
And in a family, doesn’t the eldest son take precedence?
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Hello Zoltan, obviously you did not bother to watch the two videos otherwise you wouldn’t be asking the redundant question – “So, why accuse Christians of “converting by stealth” when Christianity is the elder of the two “religions of the book”?”
There were no accusations. There were only facts.
Thank you.
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Yes, Pak Jebat, maybe so. But “facts” can be twisted to suit personal agendas. Just look at what the evangelical Christian movements in the US and elsewhere have said about Islam, and what radical Islamic preachers have said about Christianity. The bile, stealth and venom is not confined to one side only.
But, to be fair, if Christians can be converted to Islam (with the full force of the law and the state behind Islam), then why can’t Muslims convert to Christianity without being proscribed and sanctioned?
That is unequal treatment, is it not?
And Christians are free to renounce their faith and convert to other religions, as many of them have. It’s a matter between them and their God.
Why not the same for Muslims?
Are you saying that Islam is divinely inspired to be a “one-way street”, but not Christianity?
That seems to be claiming to know the mind and the will of The Almighty – which all “religions of the book” claim.
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Hi Gooberman,
There are 2 ways which we can dissect and your comment:
1) When Islam preach their teachings about God to christians, they do not change the name of Allah into Jesus Christ or The Father and the Holy Spirit. There will be no element of cheating.
2) It is the law of the land which had put some strict measures that muslims cannot be converted to other religion. Perhaps this is due to the fact that when this law was enacted, the muslims were the majority stakeholders of this country. But fret not, other more strict muslim countries penalise apostasy by death, which here it is not the case.
Thank you.
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Here’s another unread bloke, using a funny name, who must be told to read the laws and the many comments concerning the highest set of laws in the country – the Constitution, and the laws that were enacted pursuant to that.
Shit of a fellow talking about equal treatment when there are laws specifically prohibiting the proselytizing of Muslims.
He’s trying to be funny, too, asking the seditious question “Are you saying that Islam is divinely inspired to be a “one-way street”, but not Christianity?” He should be arrested for sedition or dragged to the sea side, made to sprawl face downwards on the sand and “di sula” by Anwar Al Juburi.
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Zoltan,
The fact that Christianity precedes Islam entitles it to “converting by stealth”? And in Malaysia where the laws on proselytizing of Muslims are very clear? And “converting by stealth” equals to the eldest son in a family taking precedence?
What utter lack of logic, skewed thinking and warped mind you have. Read the laws, man. Or ask some neutral and fair minded lawyers about it.
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Only here in Malaysia descendants of indian and chinese fight for the use of an arabic word, rather than to refer to god in chinese/indian to reflect the make up of their congregation. In a way, christians should be ashamed that the bible cannot now be regarded an original document as amendments to it based on whim and fancy of the priest is possible.
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I cannot helped but noticed that
a nunber of Melayus have joined in
the cheering against JAIS and muslims
wanting to keep the Kalimah Allah for
muslims exclusively. It is strange that
a muslim would join the christians in
wanting the melayus to surrender the
kalimah to [mis]use the kalimah
to describe their 3 component god.
While the article described the catholics
as sly , it can also be said of the
PAS theologians. One of the early response
from PAS was- it was a good thing ;later their
group can start proselytizing the catholics!
Read the following 2 episodes and then decide
which group would likely be successful. I
do not have data as to how many catholics
PAS have converted over the last 50 years.
I guess the number must be around a handful.
The catholics with their outstanding organisation,
efficiency and dedicated priests, nuns and good
mission schools have converted probably thousands.
In a foreign university, the catholic groups arranged
for high end laptops, parties and travel to religous
camps in the US to convert respectable number of malaysian
students studying at the university.
In the first episode, my mother was in the house of
family friend, the late Dollah Yassin some
functionary in Kuala Lumpur Executive then. Two nuns
[both foreign, probably French ] came to the
house. They were driving a hearse with a dead melayu
inside. The dead was a pauper who died without a relative
in a mission hospital and the 2 nuns was asking the
late Dollah to help bury the dead in the muslim cemetry
in Ampang. See the dedication shown by the nuns!
Episode 2
———-
I am one man do-gooder .It sounds like
a bragging but I was thrown into the circumstance
and I try to help people in distress.
I was in a park exercising one morning and it was
drizzling. I realized a girl was sitting on the
stone bench and ask her why she was in the rain.
She related that she rain away from her employer
who brought her from Cambodia and instead of getting
her a job as a housemaid, she was asked to prostitute
herself for the employer.
My first response was where was I going to put her?
Pusat zakat, Sister-in-Islam thingy all played in my mind.
Then I realised that there are no melayu/Islam NGO or gomen
agency that can help. I brought her to the local
church and ask someone from the church to put her up.
After a month or so, the girl could go back To Cambodia.
Mind you she had no passport or documents with her then.
See, The church has all the contacts in Putrajaya
could arrange for her to go home. Amazing.
Does anyone think Pas or any Melayu dakwah [proselytyzing]
agency can match the efficiency and the financial prowess
of the church?
I must confess that I am amazed that Melayus like Zaid, Bari
Azli Raman, Marina or recently Azmi Shahrom.
would support the catholic church like Reza Aslan. Reza was
a muslim [by birth] , then he converted to RC. Later he converted
his mother to RC. Now he claimed he has a ”special” obscure
process of conversion to Islam [which only he knows] and I do
think that is hogwash. He is probably a catholic jesuit selling
christianity guised as a one-off Islam thingy! Now which
of the melayus are a copy Reza Aslan. The lawyers are easy to
dismiss because they have not shown any balls to
have Pund*k Lingam removed from the Bar [ in which they are supposed
to be on the Roll] and their ”sampah” assertion can simply be thrown in the
dustbin!
It would be easy to judge if the Melayu champions
of the catholic would declare their true belief [if they have become
another Reza] .
Lastly to remind readers why catholics cannot use Allah,
an extract of my thought published elsewhere is included
for completeness.
Catholics should not use the word Allah
when used as a translation for the word god.
The Islam concept of god is not the same as
what catholics refer to as god.
Look at the way the Bible refers to God-
‘ In the name of Our father, The Son and The Holy Ghost….’
In effect catholics have 3 gods- the Father, the Son [Jesus]
and the Holy Ghost. In Islam there is only 1 god =Allah.
See the video Surah 116 –
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=quran-surah+
ikhlas&docid=4925366655584516&mid=
0C212F466D86AD945D420C212F466D86AD945D42&view=detail
&FORM=VIRE2#view=detail&mid=
C33C9D022A256442614DC33C9D022A256442614D
While Unitarian Christians have the same single
God concept of Allah and Jesus as a Prophet, the catholics
have a 3 component god . And though Pakiam the would like
to mislead the malaysian people by saying that it had always
been an article of the catholic faith that the catholics
have 1 god . In effect Pakiam said catholic gods :The Father
+ The Son + The Holy Ghost = 1+1+1 =1 God . The 3-in-1 concept
is not consistent with the catholic guideline of having 3-
component god. If Pakiam insists that his god is 1, then
he is saying that the catholics and the Unitarians are having
the same concept! That is heretical by catholic dictat!
Mistranslation -The style of the Catholics
——————————————
It was reported that catholics in attempting
to attract Indians to catholicism is adopting
hindu deity Mariamah as Mother Mariam [Jesus’s
Mother]. In the history of England catholics have
had a brutal past, involving in murders and
treachery. Finally Lord Walsingham put a
stop to all the treachery by killing all
the known catholics involved in the treachery.
See the movies: Elizabeth 1 and Elizabeth 11
A look at the Bahasa Malaysia translation shows
that the catholics carelessly [perhaps with
an underlying sinister motive] translates
The Father [Bapa Allah] , The Son [Anak ..] and
The Holy Ghost [ Roh Qudus]
Surah Ikhlas clearly states that Allah has no son
and none is equal to Him. So the translation is
unacceptable to muslims. Of course if Catholics want
to have 1 god just like the Unitarians, there can be no
objection to the use of Allah as god!
Observe in Bahasa, Roh is an attribute of man whose life
is finite. Jesus lived for x number of years. Roh [life]
is given when a baby appears in the womb, and is taken
when a man dies. Literal translation of Holy Ghost would
most likely be Pontianak Suci. taking into consideration
the manner of Jesus appearing after his ‘death’ as described
by Saul. The phrase Roh Quddus [arabic phrase] appeared in
surah al-maidah in the Quran and it refers to Angel Jibril [Gabriel]
Why does the catholic got their translation of English into
Bahasa Indonesia all mixed up and not represent the meaning of
the phrase or word?
My take is that the translators wanted to intentionally
confuse/mislead whoever read the Bahasa bible- just like using Mariamah [hindu deity]
as a translation for Mariam [Jesus’s mother]
.
The careless translation [ with evil intention] is not
a thing that muslims in malaysia would view as simply bad translation’
but an affront to our sense and sensiblities. No doubt the chinese and
indians in malaysia had always taken for granted our [melayus] relaxed and simple
give and take attitude as a sign that they can push for whatever
unreasonable demands . Generally the chinese are catholic-newbies and hardly understand
christian dictats well enough to discuss concepts of trinity or even of god!.
Most chinese took up christianity whilst at the university and prided themselves in
having ‘glamorous’ christian names like June Wong instead of Wong Ping Gan.
In Angola , catholic inspired leaders have destroyed
mosques and prohibited the people from practising Islam.
Are there any utterance of protest from the head
of the catholic church in Rome and catholics
around the world?
Zilch !
#
#
treachery. Finally Lord Walsingham put a
stop to all the treachery by killing all
the known catholics involved in the treachery.
See the movies: Elizabeth 1 and Elizabeth 11
A look at the Bahasa Malaysia translation shows
that the catholics carelessly [perhaps with
an underlying sinister motive] translates
The Father [Bapa Allah] , The Son [Anak ..] and
The Holy Ghost [ Roh Qudus]
Surah Ikhlas clearly states that Allah has no son
and none is equal to Him. So the translation is
unacceptable to muslims. Of course if Catholics want
to have 1 god just like the Unitarians, there can be no
objection to the use of Allah as god!
Observe in Bahasa, Roh is an attribute of man whose life
is finite. Jesus lived for x number of years. Roh [life]
is given when a baby appears in the womb, and is taken
when a man dies. Literal translation of Holy Ghost would
most likely be Pontianak Suci. taking into consideration
the manner of Jesus appearing after his ‘death’ as described
by Saul. The phrase Roh Quddus [arabic phrase] appeared in
surah al-maidah in the Quran and it refers to Angel Jibril [Gabriel]
Why does the catholic got their translation of English into
Bahasa Indonesia all mixed up and not represent the meaning of
the phrase or word?
My take is that the translators wanted to intentionally
confuse/mislead whoever read the Bahasa bible- just like using Mariamah [hindu deity]
as a translation for Mariam [Jesus’s mother]
.
The careless translation [ with evil intention] is not
a thing that muslims in malaysia would view as simply bad translation’
but an affront to our sense and sensiblities. No doubt the chinese and
indians in malaysia had always taken for granted our [melayus] relaxed and simple
give and take attitude as a sign that they can push for whatever
unreasonable demands . Generally the chinese are catholic-newbies and hardly understand
christian dictats well enough to discuss concepts of trinity or even of god!.
Most chinese took up christianity whilst at the university and prided themselves in
having ‘glamorous’ christian names like June Wong instead of Wong Ping Gan.
Chinese and Indians malaysia treat national laws contemptuosly .
The catholic church has treated laws and titah Tuanku [Sultan Selangor] as
suggestions rather than an order that they need to obey. Disgraceful.
In Angola , catholic inspired leaders have destroyed
mosques and prohibited the people from practising Islam.
Are there any utterance of protest from the head
of the catholic church in Rome and catholics
around the world?
Zilch !
#
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Who cares? Allah, tuhan, god, whatever. Organized religion is a wate of time. So, can I use Allah when refering to God? Under which section of the penal code?
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Grow up boy. Or you go and play with kids who still use names like yours.
Don’t be asking questions when you begin your mischievous comment with the words “Who cares?”
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Following his style, I cannot help but notice that the above comment-er (the spelling prompter shows that the word “commenter” still does not exist in the English language despite blogging being in practice for many years) uses a vulgar Hokkien word for a name, writes in a peculiar fashion making his comment such a long one, and chiding the relevant government department or NGOs engaged with Muslim welfare activities.
But talking about foreign nuns bringing a Muslim corpse to his mother’s house implies British colonial days and, even if as a boy then, the commenter must be an old man now and he must have been of some age when “trying to help the Cambodian maid”. Good of him to want to help but could he not have thought of the Jabatan Agama which surely will assist if he was thinking of the religious angle as far as the Cambodian maid was concerned – quite a few came from the Malay community in Kampong Cham in Cambodia anyway. Or even the Imam or Bilal of mosques which exist in so many places in KL or elsewhere.
But good of him to hit at the so-called liberal Melayus like Marina Mahathir, and Melayu derhaka like the bloke said to have converted to RC, which I doubt but join in condemnation, too, in case it’s true.
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Those blokes thinking they are liberal are not liberal; they are actually pseudo-liberal, or liberal olok olok. You cannot be liberal if you do not see or do not accept Article 3 of the Constitution spelling out Islam is “the religion of the Federation”, the other Articles governing freedom being subservient to the specifically written out Article 3 (surely Islam has precedence over other religions when spelled out such), and that there are other laws enacted in pursuit of Article 3 that, for example, prohibit proselytizing of Muslims.
Even lawyers may not be interpreting the Constitution correctly and may not be liberal but only pseudo-liberal. Only Constitutional law experts may have the correct interpretation. Like Professor Emeritus Shad Salem Faruqi who said that, at the highest Court of Appeal, the Judges need to consider the intent of those involved in the drafting of the Constitution to arrive at the correct interpretation.
Surely the fact that the position of Islam being stated so high up on the list of Constitutional provisions – as high as Article 3, (after Article 1 stating the name of this country etc) – shows the importance of Islam, its precedence over other religions, no other religion is even stated in name, and that those involved in the drafting of the Constitution had, uppermost in their minds, the fact that the vast majority of the population at that time were Muslims.
Note that the “vast majority” situation of the Muslims pre-Merdeka was diluted by the granting of citizenship to nearly 1 million pendatang soon after Merdeka, at which time the population of the country was about 5 million. Mentioning this evokes the grudging against the ungrateful ingrates and may God forbid the Federal Court rendering a final decision that is not favourable to the Muslims.
Note that the Muslims are still the majority now – the Malays and non-Malay Muslims at slightly more than 60% of the population
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It needs to be drummed into the minds of all those resident in this country – citizens and non-citizens alike – that Islam is very high on the agenda of the Malaysian Constitution. Just look at where Religion (Islam) is on the following order of Constitutional provisions:
LAWS OF MALAYSIA
FEDERAL CONSTITUTION
ARRANGEMENT OF ARTICLES
PART I
THE STATES, RELIGION AND LAW OF
THE FEDERATION
Article
1. Name, States and territories of the Federation
2. Admission of new territories into the Federation
3. Religion of the Federation
4. Supreme Law of the Federation
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And while still on this subject, please allow me to copy and paste the relevant clauses of Article 3 of the Constitution for the benefit of those not having easy access to a copy of the Constitution with the latest amendments incorporated therein:
Religion of the Federation
3. (1) Islam is the religion of the Federation; but other religions
may be practised in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation.
(2) In every State other than States not having a Ruler the
position of the Ruler as the Head of the religion of Islam in his
State in the manner and to the extent acknowledged and declared
by the Constitution of that State, and, subject to that Constitution,
all rights, privileges, prerogatives and powers enjoyed by him as
Head of that religion, are unaffected and unimpaired; but in any
acts, observances of ceremonies with respect to which the Conference
of Rulers has agreed that they should extend to the Federation as
a whole each of the other Rulers shall in his capacity of Head of
the religion of Islam authorize the Yang di-Pertuan Agong to
represent him.
(5) Notwithstanding anything in this Constitution the
Yang di-Pertuan Agong shall be the head of the religion of Islam
in the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur, Labuan and Putrajaya;
and for this purpose Parliament may be law make provisions for
regulating Islamic religious affairs and for constituting a Council
to advise the Yang di-Pertuan Agong in matters relating to the
religion of Islam.
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Whether muslim convert to christian, buddhist, shiite, taoist, hindu, al- arkam or ayah pin or vice versa, it is their personal matter and none of anyone else business.God guides whom He wish and lead astray whom He wants. And there is nothing Jawi, Jakim, Mais, the sultan or the PM can do anything about it.
We must stop treating people personal desire like its a national assets. Let them do what they wish as long as it is peacefully done,like in the west.
Sunnis and shiites may be fighting like crazy in the middle east. But they are peaceful neighbours in the west where their right to freedom of faith is protected. That is not possible in this country nowadays.
Before the shiite controversy,there was nothing wrong with them.there are a few hundred thousand iranian in Malaysia including the founder of arab malaysian bank. I eat at a persian restaurant on the ground floor of my office block with no hassle.
It is our religious department and people like jmd that is instilling hatred amongst us. They are the mischief makers.
As long as the country protects the right to practice ones faith freely and in peace, there should be no problems. Its time we curtail the powers of the religious authorities.
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Read, man, read, educate yourself with the laws of this country, particularly the Constitution Article 3(1) and Article 3(5) that has been reproduced in the above comment –
.. Yang di-Pertuan Agong shall be the head of the religion of Islam
in the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur, Labuan and Putrajaya;
and for this purpose Parliament may be(y) law make provisions for
regulating Islamic religious affairs and for constituting a Council
to advise the Yang di-Pertuan Agong.
Get it into your head that the law prohibits the proselytizing of Muslims into any religion. or even from dissuading any Muslim to abndon his religion for whatever purpose.
A “personal matter”? You live alone? In solitary confinement, not governed by the laws and untouchable by the laws? You can’t do it even if you are a pariah.
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If someone were about to commit suicide, or become a drug addict, would you say that it’s a personal matter and no one else’s business? If a Muslim truly believes in what the Quran tells him, then he must believe that the fate of the apostate is to be punished in Hell forever. We do all sorts of things to prevent people becoming drug addicts, including executing drug traffickers. Now tell me which is worse: becoming a drug addict or spending eternity in Hell?
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“As long as the country protects the right to practice ones faith freely and in peace” – the precise wording is “practice in peace and harmony. And insisting on using kalimah Allah is not practicing your religion in peace and harmony. It causes tension which might erupt into violence.
It is people like you who are sowing seeds of hatred among us, not the religious department or JMD. You are the mischief makers, get that into your naughty skull, man.
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Howdy JMD,
Congrats! You whacked the nail on ‘siapa makan cili dia rasa pedas’ dunggu heads.
We don’t bullshit lah OK. We must ADMIT it. It is a clear FACT that they are trying to murtad kan the ignorant muslims in Peninsula Malaysia. The majority of the muslims in this country are aware of these issues and they will fight till the end.
The westerners could change/translate the words in the Bible as they wish (macam copy right kepala bapak mereka). Resulting of producing the Bible in many versions, why can’t they (reverends and pastors) do the same in Malaysia? Change lah the Allah word to other translation”. They could always change it to ‘Kadavul or Iswara’ (God in Tamil language).
Rev Father Lawrence Andrew is an Indian Catholic. It is better from him to change Allah to Kadavul or Iswara.
Common lah, Sabahans and Sarawakians that lives in Peninsula and East Malaysia understand English. Macam lah, mereka in tidak pergi ke sekolah. I am sure they know these words ‘God’ & ‘Lord’ in the English Bible. Thus, the Malay Bible ‘Allah’ translate balik lah to ‘God’. Susah sangat ke? When they can have many versions of the Bible, why can’t they change this one word in the Malay/Indonesian Bible?
Reverend! Pastor! Err….are these words Arabian words? Or, are these words belongs to Malay speaking world? How come ah they never translate these words to the other languages? Saya pun tarak faham lah.
Banyak cakap banyak merapu…it is time to sayonara
Have a nice weekend JMD.
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Another way that the Christian priests have been sly and we naive is in managing people’s perceptions about this issue. They have managed to make everyone see this as being about the majority Muslims bullying weak minority non Muslims. One thing Christians are very good at is acting the role of the persecuted victim. Even the Hindus who have much bigger problems with the Christian evangelists, are taking the Christians’ side.
We need to turn the perception around. Make people see that it is only about defending our faith, not about stopping others from practising theirs. For example, we can highlight cases where Hindu parents send their kids off to university only for them to come back as Christians, or evangelists hanging around in hospitals doing deathbed conversions. I’ve heard these things happen a lot. By helping other non-Christians with their own problems with the evangelists, we bring them over to our side and make them see things from our perspective. Muslims are not the bad guys here.
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“They have managed to make everyone see this as being about the majority Muslims bullying weak minority non Muslims.” –
I disagree. Only a number – albeit fairly substantial – do perceive it that way. But Muslims must not feel being bullied or weak.
The Christians have had 2,000 years of existence, were once “the powers” to contend with on earth during the fays of the Roman Empire. But remember, the Muslims conquered them in the 7th century onwards (the centre of the Roman Catholic Church was moved from Constantinople – in present day Ankara, Turkey – to the Vatican City, Rome. And Islam had a glorious 500 years of golden civilization, leading the world in science, mathematics, philosophy etc, until the Mongols invaded and destroyed its centre, Baghdad, in the 13th century.
But then the Christians under Emperor Titus in AD 90 conquered the Jews who had a much older Hebrew religion, destroyed and and ransacked Jerusalem, burnt the Jewish temple to the ground on which the Muslims later built the Al Aqsa Mosque from which Prophet Muhammad ascended to Heaven and returned.
And, while we cannot condone terrorist acts all over the world, the Muslims need to be steadfast in their belief and convinced that Muslims the world over are fighting and defending their faith, and that the laws of this country will ensure Islam’s place under the Constitution shall never vary. We place our trust in Allah that the Federal Court will protect that when the time comes.
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i don’t think it is right to stop anyone from using the name Allah. The Holy QURAN and the Holy prophet preaches religious tolerance. The christians have their own relgion and we have our own. They have the right to practice their religion as long as it does not interfere with ours. Allah is for every one who believe in Him. Some muslims from other languages give Allah other names. Actions are judge by intention. I believe that the most important thing is how one defines the name Allah.
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We must remember that Islam, christianity and jews are all come from the same god. To allow the cristians to use Allah to refer to the God is not a problem. As mention in Quran the word Allah has been use by the musyrik and the Ahl-kitab but did the prophet disallowed it? No. Yes the christian are kufr, they associate Allah the One true God with the trinity. But do we become kufr allowing them to do so?just like we allow the Buddhist and Hindus to take another God beside Allah?We allow them to build shrine and church, do we the muslim now is a kufr? No we are not. It is a question of allowing, not agreeing. So now in the perspective of Islam allowing so is not a problem .
The question is now why suddenly the christian want to use the word Allah?It does arouse suspicion and make we think that there is hidden agenda. Still i cannot see how the missionaries can influence people by this. If there is a muslim who can be trick into christianity just because the name of their god is now the same as ours, clearly he or she have some problem in his/her tauhid. And beside, with how the world is nowadays i don’t think we can run away from exposure to other religions. With the internet people can get access to anything. Banning the use of word Allah in bible or banning Malay bible wont do much. It is time for us to stop being afraid of the Holly water, and the Cross, thinking our faith can change just because we drink holly water or look at the cross. Muslim should be more proactive engaging in dialogue with the Christians. We are religion that base on reasoning, our faith cannot be threaten by this petty matter.
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If you believe what you just wrote, then you’re more naive than you think. It’s not the thinking Muslims you need to worry about – they weren’t the ones who were at DUMC, were they.
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Why don’t we asked Jesus in the Christian Bible? It would be even better since Christians believe in their own Bible. Did Jesus said ” I am God ” or ” worship me “? No, but Jesus did said ” My Father is greater than I ” (John 14:28), ” My Father is greater than all ” (John 14:29) and ” I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”
(John 5:30)
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