Update 27 April 2012:
Thank you The Mole for highlighting yet another lie by Bersih supporters. The EC has throughly debunk and rebut their baseless allegations and unwarranted accusations. Can be read HERE.
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Original article:
Right on cue and following the usual script of Pakatan Rakyat where, it is important to continuously create issues regardless if they are justified or even logically acceptable by common sense, the Bersih 3.0 will happen this Saturday 28th April 2012.
We must not fall under the illusion that this mass sit in at Dataran Merdeka (or any other venue they want to occupy) will be peaceful or non-political.
We have experienced this last year when the pied piper led approximately 10,000 (a generous estimate) people to demonstrate against the rule of law. It wasn’t actually an effort to have a free and fair election (that should be done on the discussion tables) but an actual test of strength by the vocal minority to usurp the rule of law in Malaysia with their brand of jungle laws.
In their books, anything goes. Malaysia has laws and rules but to them, their desire to break these rules are their basic ‘human right’ albeit a wrong one and devoid of any common sense.
Their latest stand where Dataran Merdeka is a public place and anyone have the right to sleep or set up tents there are enshrined in their democratic freedom is one such error in their outlook about human rights.
Certainly there are rules to be applied or else legal structure and system can never be applied here in Malaysia. It is sad indeed that those who are responsible to educate people about the laws are the ones actively trying to tell people to break these laws.
Case in point, the former Bar Council president and a lawyer by profession, Ambiga herself.
It is remarkable that she is vehemently trying to hold the sit in without any due regards towards the authorities. If you cannot respect the authorities, then do you think people will respect you? They might follow you for awhile, but you won’t ever get the respect you deserve.
It is certainly comical when Bersih declared:
“Bersih said yesterday it would consider calling off Saturday’s rally if Datuk Seri Najib Razak can guarantee the electoral reform movement’s demands are met before the next federal polls.”
The recent electoral reforms which was presented in Parliament by the Parliamentary Select Committee (PSC) had greatly addressed the issues. In fact all the 8 demands (except one) have been passed and agreed upon.
This was the result of the demands of Bersih 2.0 in July last year. Congratulations to Ambiga and her gang.
Therefore, what is the purpose of Bersih 3.0?
They are now saying:
“The coalition said it was disappointed by the recently concluded Parliamentary Select Committee on electoral reforms, saying that despite Putrajaya’s repeated assurances and promises, the panel had failed to introduce meaningful reforms to the election system.”
The act was passed barely a few weeks ago and they expect reforms to be completed overnight?
The 8 demands are:
1. Clean the electoral roll
2. Reform postal ballot
3. Use of indelible ink
4. Minimum 21 days campaign period (this is the only demand not fulfilled – the agreed number is 10 days)
5. Free and fair access to media
6. Strengthen public institutions
7. Stop corruption
8. Stop dirty politics
The PSC actually tabled and outlined an improved electoral process with the passing of 22 laws altogether. All of which were what Bersih 2.0 demanded.
Hence we are now at a quandary and a crossroad of our logical thinking. If all the demands are fulfilled, the Pakatan Rakyat and its strongest vehicle called Bersih, have no more fuel to ignite the support from their fans or enough fire to incite the population to hate the government.
What do they do?
Create ambiguity via Ambiga’s incessant vitriol that the electoral process will still not be fair. It is amazing that Bersih 3.0 now will actually demand the government to hold free and fair elections based on their own previous recommendations which have already been passed by Parliament!
Some people must really have a lot of free time these days. Someone please give Ambiga a real job otherwise all our common sense will be replaced by stupidity.
Bersih 3.0 was recently helped by another Pakatan Rakyat’s sycophant by the name of Ong Kian Ming.
He just created a special project called MERAP (Malaysia Electoral Roll Analysis Project) which had made wild unsubstantiated allegations about the discrepancies in the electoral roll.
Basically he alleged that currently there are 3.1 million dubious voters in the electoral roll. His contention was:
“Bersih accused the Election Commission (EC) today of failing to investigate 3.1 million voters whose identity card (IC) addresses differ from that in the electoral roll despite having the information since 2002.”
I believe this Ong Kian Ming, who is so biased in his political dogma refused to study the basic laws relating to the Electoral Commission law of Malaysia.
Before 2002, people can register to vote regardless what the address in the identity card is. The Act was changed in 2002 whereby your voting area will follow the address in your IC. Therefore, after 2002, if you register for the first time, your IC address will determine the constituency you will vote.
The law clearly stated that.
But if the voter changed address or live elsewhere, the place where he is voting will remain the same as what he originally registered himself. If he himself DOES NOT apply to change his voting constituency then the EC has NO POWER to change it for him.
That is why many of us go back to our hometowns to vote. This is a normal occurrence. Anwar Ibrahim lives in Bukit Segambut but he votes in Permatang Pauh. Lim Guan Eng was a candidate in Pulau Pinang but he voted in Melaka back in 2008.
I myself registered to vote in the 90s but have always voted in Melaka eventhough my IC address is in Kuala Lumpur. I have no desire to change my voting constituency. But am I a dubious voter?
Is Anwar Ibrahim a phantom voter? Does Lim Guan Eng fall under ‘a non-resident voter’ as defined by Ong Kian Ming?
The fact is, this is allowed according to the law of this country and it is the reality. Ong Kian Ming made a serious allegations without delving into the laws of the technicality of the electoral process. Simply accusing that there are 3.1 dubious voters in this country when they are actually legitimate is one of Bersih’s way to create ambiguity.
What was his methodology? Did he discuss and or make relevant consultations with the EC prior giving his press conference? Being ignorant and reckless in giving erroneous findings just to aid his political leanings is certainly not a virtue of a lecturer and an academician.
Due to ignorance and political expediency, he came out with assumptions and allegations simply based on his limited understanding of each case. I firmly believe, if he indeed want to be sincere, he should have faced the EC or at least meet them with their findings and concerns instead of making public condemnation against the EC. Bear in mind, the electoral roll he is criticising is the same electoral roll that got them 5 states and won the 82 seats in the Parliament. Kelantan, has been in the hands of PAS since 1990!
But, there are no honour among Pakatan people.
Bersih 3.0, for all it’s so called brouhaha is an illegal NGO consist of dubious groups of NGOs.
Yes, it is Bersih 3.0 who are dubious.
They claim to have 81 NGOs under their umbrella but just a glance of these NGOs, you will know that some of them are bogus entities. You can have a look HERE.
So there, a rabble rouser named Ambiga, supported by an ignorant ‘academician’ is leading a pointless, illegal movement made up by phantom and dubious organisations to champion a cause which have been addressed by Parliament.
Why are you supporting them again?
jebatmustdie 
Numbers 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 still needs to be worked on.
Thats why they will be walking at Dataran this Saturday.
People like Ambiga, Samad Said, & the demonstrators have been demonised so much, but if it wasn’t for their efforts, the govenrment of the day wouldn’t bother with appearing to reform like what it is doing now.
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What on earth are you talking about? Reforms are being done after the Act was passed so why the need to hold this pointless Bersih 3.0? Reforms (all 22 of them) can never be accomplished immediately. Need a couple of months at least for the results to happen. Even Ambiga can’t change the venue from Dataran to Stadium Merdeka, citing 3 days is not enough to tell her supporters of a change in venue. All of Ambiga supporters seriously need a reboot in their common sense. Thank you for the comment. Good night.
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y’know, I have a feeling the refusal to change venues due to ‘not enough time to tell supporters’ is may be due to the fact that if they change the venue, a lot of their ‘sandiwara’ menyayat hati yang laku masuk youtube and blog sites will need to be revoked. I mean, man, with social network these days, 3 days not enough time? bullshit
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They didn’t change venue because they expected a confrontation with the Police. They knew when there’s a confrontation, it’d become news and allegations of “Police brutalities” will make catchy headlines. Those organizing blokes knew the art of propaganda and deliberately wanted to go for the forbidden fruit – Dataran Merdeka.
Talk about changing venue, I hope this venue for airing our disgust with the Bersih fellas would be open for some time more without being overshadowed by a new post. There are many interesting views already expressed but I think there many more coming. The action by the authorities on the Bersih criminals has just begun and many more views would come out.
I expect the comments here would go well beyond the 100 mark.
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Yeah, because even this migrated, sour-grape, feeling-homesick fellow Bakri Musa wants to say something: The Malaysian Insider quotes him as saying, “Bersih 3.0 clearly demonstrates that Malaysians no longer fear the state.” Instigating Malaysians to go against the Government. Yet I wonder if he is still a Malaysian.
He said before that he feared being apprehended by the Police if he returned during Pak Lah’s time. He had been criticizing since even before that during Tun Mahathir’s time. He was one of the early Malay doctors but, unlike Tun Dr Mahathir, he married an American, perhaps adopted American values, found local values and standards distasteful, and absconded to Calfornia. For decades now, he would be living the American way of life, if so, no longer a Malay or even a Malaysian. But he feels homesick and wants to talk about Bersih many thousands of miles away.
“In that regard we are a quantum leap ahead of the Egyptians under Mubarak, the Iraqis under Saddam, or the Chinese under Mao (or even today),” said he. If he’s trying to insinuate that the Arab Spring has a place in Malaysia, he’s got a lot of shit coming his way. But for now let what he says as quoted by MI stay. We know that if he is in China chiding Mao Zedong even today, he’d probably be thrown in prison.
But I want to see the Bersih criminals thrown into prison. Now waiting for news on those fellows whose photos were aired to be arrested and charged in court.
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Federal CID Director Mohd Bakri Zinin said police had given a week to those wanted for the chaos during the rally to surrender (the Star). He said a house-to-house search would be carried out should they fail to do so. I’m happy the Police are taking that stand.
“As of yesterday, only 12 of those 116 had surrendered,” he added. “Eight have been charged and released on bail.” 75% rate of prosecution. Well done.
Yesterday, police released 25 more pictures. Total now 141.
Comm Mohd Bakri said police had also received 43 reports after the rally, 22 of which were lodged by the public, including media members. I’m also happy that the public, including the media, have complained against the Bersih criminal acts. Hope to see half of those 141 sent to prison. The public must be deterred from committing crimes.
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We still have not heard whodunit actually. The bloke(s) who actually did or say things that made the goons trample on the barbed wires, push the plastic blocks aside leading to a stampede into the forbidden ground.
And whether the Police have identified the blokes who actually removed the barricades. And whether they are included among the 141 photos (more by now?) put out to the public.
Let’s wait to hear about them and see their damned faces. All those culprits must be damned and condemned. Verbally and legally.
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Look at this Khoo Ying Hooi’s writing in Malaysiakini hitting at Foreign Minister Anifah’s explaination that there is no need for the UN Special Rapporteur to investigate Bersih 3.0. Khoo is said to be an academic member of staff at University Malaya, a PhD candidate at the University Putra Malaysia.
What the heck, she doesn’t even explain the legal status of a Special Rapporteur – who appoints, selection process, functions and responsibilities, as mentioned in an earlier comment. So that readers can assess the reliability of such Rapporteurs. We know that if nominated by former US Foreign Secretary Codoleeza Rice, or by the current US Ambassador – another Rice – surely the views of the Neocons will hold sway. That’s international politics, like the Neocons got George Bush and Tony Blair to bomb Iraq.
And this woman rambled on the Special Procedures, the general name given to the mechanisms established to address human rights issues. Special Procedures are either an individual (called “Special Rapporteur”, “Special Representative” or “Independent Expert”) or a Working Group usually composed of five members (one from each region). No further explanation.
Of course she wants to make unimportant Foreign Affairs Minister Anifah’s explanation. That there is no necessity for outsiders i.e the Special Rapporteur to investigate Bersih 3.0. “We are a sovereign nation. We are capable of doing our own impartial investigation and we have faith in the authorities and the police,” he said.
“For responsible Malaysians, I don’t think this is an issue. We don’t need someone to investigate what transpired in our country. We have seen it on television and there are people who were actually on the spot who witnessed what happened .. The government is going to appoint a panel to investigate;” he added.
Then she starts saying what appears to be her own agenda. The way Anifah described the Special Rapporteur and the HRC which we are a member, as the “outsider” and the “outside organisation” is detrimental to the country, she said.
I wonder what she hopes to achieve by that.
She then listed out the criticisms and recommendations made by a Rapporteur in a 1998 visit. Of course about ISA, which has been repealed. And critical of many other laws that make our Parliament a mockery. What he hell, don’t these people understand that our laws are made by a democratic process, the majority voice? If Obama wants to legalize same sex marriage, do we ask to investigate and submit a complain to the UN because offensive to Muslims in the US? Ridiculous these people.
Is this the stuff that University Malaya academic staff members and PhD candidates at UPM are made of these days?
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I’m glad to read about 500 traders planning to hold a protest outside Ambiga’s house again on May 24 over the April 28 Bersih rally. They say the rally disrupted their business. This time a big number is expected to attend.
“We are planning to stage a protest… as we want the rally organisers to take responsibility for their actions and compensate traders,” Malaysia Small and Medium Entrepreneurs Alliance (Ikhlas) president Mohd Ridzuan Abdullah was quoted as saying by The New Sunday Times.
“Our members have financial obligations to settle, such as bank and car loans. We want compensation from rally organisers for the losses our members suffered,” he added. “A day’s taking means a lot to us and we barely get by on what we earn.”
Yes, by all means rally in front of her house. If she can cause inconvenience to so many and loss of earnings to the tune of hundreds of thousand Ringgits, why not make her tremble and teach her a lesson. Teach her a lesson loud and strong. To hell with her saying it’s not proper or legal. Did she think it proper to break the law on the Peaceful Assembly Act in so many ways? Damn her.
The Ikhlas President also urged the Home Ministry and police to take action against Bersih and opposition members who had allegedly instigated the rally. I fully support that call. Get ’em booked.
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Hah, Armed Forces Veterans Association now also demo in front of Ambiga’s house, showing her how much people dislike her and Bersih. About 10 retired soldiers exercised their bums this morning outside her house. What a bumful event the woman had this morning.
The members of the Association did their “butt exercises” to protest against the Bersih chief for being an “enemy” of the nation. This is the second demo against the woman.
“We Armed Forces veterans have the right to protest against an ‘enemy’ who tried to smear the nation’s name,” said PVTM president Datuk Mohd Ali Baharom.
The 500 members and supporters of the Small and Medium Enterprises Association have scheduled their demo in front of Ambiga’s house on 24 May.
I think if she did not allow politics to rape her Bersih organization, she wouldn’t have been so hated. The demo also showed anti- Ambiga-Anwar placard.
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Was the “butt exercises” in front of Ambiga’s house this morning by rank and file members of the Veterans Association or by ex-Army Officers?
ASIA PACIFIC NEWS says it was by Ex-army officers. The report by their Malaysia Bureau Chief Melissa Goh says:
KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia’s controversial electoral reform movement, Bersih, has come under fire again, this time by former army officers. Over a dozen ex-army officers staged a protest outside the residence of Bersih co-chair Ambiga Sreenevasan. They are blaming her and opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim for the Bersih 3.0 rally that turned ugly, resulting in violent clashes between police and protesters.
“We ex-army officers will act if you continue to ruin the country’s image,” said one protester.
It’s the second protest outside her house since the Bersih 3.0 rally. Police have refused to act against the protest, insisting there is no breach of laws.
Ambiga said, “I leave it to the public to judge what’s happening here. As far as I am concerned, this is intimidation.”
No, woman, it’s not intimidation. It’s members of the public also wanting to express their feelings. Of disgust against you,the Bersih committee and the participants. When you went on the streets, were you intimidating? Who were you intimidating? The Police? The Government? The public, many of whom were inconvenienced? A number of whom lost their income that day? Sheeesh.
And this time i’s ex-Army Officers. I believe they are in contact with those still serving in the Military. It is hoped that you get the message. Loud and clear.
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As of now, we have seen the following casualties pertaining to the Bersih 3.0 Rally, with varying degrees of severity:
1. Bersih itself – Bersih 3.0 prompted Home Minister Hishamuddin to repeat the statement that Bersih 2.0 is illegal. It follows from that fact (ipso facto, they say?) that Bersih 3.0 is also illegal. They are still not a registered body, are they?
2. Ambiga – 2 demos in front of her house already, another, bigger one, on 24 May
3. Bar Council – to the extent there are calls for, and the proposal for an alternative law body is being considered by the Government
4. DAP – emanating from the harsh treatment toTunku Aziz for dissenting against Bersih breaking the law, the grand old man called DAP undemocratic and Lim Guan Eng a demagogue, “biadap” and not trustworthy, as reported by the Star yesterday. Terrible shame.
5. 26 rally participants – as at 7 pm on Tuesday – already surrendered and arrested. Another 94 more will be hunted down beginning to day.
But, like many others, I want to see Ambiga, Bar Council activists, Anwar, Azmin Ali, Hadi Awang and Lim Kit Siang arrested, too, and charged in Court. They were all there attending Bersih 3.0. They marched. That in itself was illegal under the Peaceful Assembly Act 2012. They headed for Dataran Merdeka, an area declared out of bounds by a Court Order. That was inciteful. A riot broke out – they had incited a riot. In this respect, Anwar and Azmin Ali especially should be arrested. Azmin spoke on the hand-held loud speaker and Anwar gestured to him in what many saw as inciteful signals, the crowd started removing the barricades and stormed the Dataran Merdeka almost immediately after that.
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For the record of the discussion in this post, Malaysian Bar and Bar Council member Khairul Azam Abdul Aziz has filed a civil suit against Bar Council president Lim Chee Wee and three others, claiming that a notice for the Malaysian Bar EGM issued on May 4 was null and void and against the Legal Profession Act 1976 and therefore the resolution passed at the EGM was also null and void.
He said Council secretary Tony Woon Yeow Thong uploaded the circular titled “motion in relation to the events of and surrounding the Bersih 3.0 public assembly on April 28 and matters in connection therewith, proposed by Lim, on behalf of the Bar Council, dated May 4, 2012” at about 11.29pm on May 4.
He said the defendants failed, refused or neglected the statutory rights of the Bar’s 14,189 members by not mailing the notice and motion to them. That was not according to the law.
Lim then talked about misconduct regarding revealing a document (the circular?) before a court hearing. But wasn’t the Bar Council’s participation in Bersih all about misconduct? Where is decency in the Malaysian Bar Council leadership these days?
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This is good news: NST says a Bar Council Disciplinary Committee member was today charged in court and claimed trial to two counts of violating the magistrate’s order barring the Bersih 3.0 gathering in Dataran Merdeka on April 28. Look at that – a Disciplinary Committee member. Wonder what discipline they are talking about at the Bar Council. Lawyer G.N. Rajesh Kumar was accused of having gone against the order issued by Magistrate Zaki Asyraf Zubir.
The prohibited areas of Dataran Merdeka cover every land surface bordered by Jalan Sultan Hishamuddin, Jalan Raja and Jalan Kelab except land occupied by the Royal Selangor Club. Rajesh faces a maximum of six months’ jail or fine or both for the primary offence. He could also be jailed six months or fined RM2,000 or both if convicted for the alternative offence. I wish he’ll get jailed. A deterrent sentence.
His lawyer said, “Last Friday, my client came willingly to the police to help in their investigation. However, when he went again to the police station two days ago, he was arrested.” Good of the Police to do so.
Only when pleading for low bail amount did the lawyer say, “Rajesh is an officer of the court who completely understands the law and will attend court proceedings.” Damn it, he didn’t bother about all those when commiting the crime, did he?
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I don’t know who is Dr LIN MUI KIANG, “United Nations Coordination Specialist, Malaysia”, what specialist qualification he has, or how he gets appointed to that post.
It appears to me the United Nations in Malaysia only appoints non-Bumis. And with doubtful neutrality in their stand.
Now not sure if he writes to the Star or the Star sought his opinion, as the Star is said to also have a few anti-Establishment staff, despite being said to be owned by MCA.
The man refers to “Police: Tear gas used at rally safe, UN-approved’” (The Star, May 7) and pointed out the UN has consistently condemned the excessive use of force, including through the use of tear gas. Now, who is he to imply there was “excessive use of force” on the Bersih fellows?
Of course such people may say what the Zionist Israelis did on the Arabs may be justified, but questioned what the Malaysian Police did on Bersih 3.0. The man pointed out that the UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression after his mission to Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories in December 2011 noted that “while the use of tear gas to disperse a crowd may be legitimate under certain circumstances, tear gas canisters should never be fired directly at demonstrators”. Who the hell said the tear gas was fired directly at the Bersih demonstrators? What evidence is there for him to imply that?
Of course, the UN has the Basic Principles on the use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials, which was adopted by the Eighth United Nations Congress on the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders in 1990. Which are stated in broad, general principles. Like “Governments and law enforcement agencies should develop a range of means as broad as possible and equip law enforcement officials with various types of weapons and ammunition that would allow for a differentiated use of force and firearms … These should include the development of non-lethal incapacitating weapons for use in appropriate situations, with a view to increasingly restraining the application of means capable of causing death or injury to persons. Who says Malaysia doesn’t have those? Who says PDRM uses weapons like napalm that burnt the flesh of human beings like the Americans did during the Vietnam war?
And “Law enforcement officials, in carrying out their duty, shall, as far as possible, apply non-violent means before resorting to the use of force and firearms. They may use force and firearms only if other means remain ineffective or without any promise of achieving the intended result.” But unless there is evidence otherwise, who is to say that PDRM didn’t follow all those UN Basic Principles? Was the Rapporteur or the Specialist all over the places of Bersih 3.0 that day? That’s why a Panel was formed to determine the facts, to see if there were any breaches of the UN principles, like the Bersih people breached the Malaysian principles – principles of law of this country, that is.
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Good of the Police for saying they won’t take action against those wanting to protest in front of Ambiga’s house on May 24. The Deputy IGP said at a press conference, “As long as they don’t commit any offence such as trespassing on private property, we will not take action.”
On the previous “burger sit-in” in front of ther house, the Dep IGP said, “They didn’t enter her house, they were in a public space,” he said, adding that under the recently-enforced Peaceful Assembly Act all parties should be allowed to conduct peaceful gatherings., as long as “without disrupting other people.”
The newspaper Sinar Harian said Ambiga should be made to realize that many people hated the Bersih rally. Yes, true, I am one of them. I think there are millions of others – the silent majority – out there who feel the same.
Yet Mat Sabu, Deputy President of PAS, spoke of 1 million marchers in Bersih 4. This is a figure conjured on the basis of the ridiculous claim that Bersih 3 participants totaled 300,000, when in fact the Police estimates were 25,000, perhaps 40,000 tops. But then Mat Sabu is a joker, isn’t he? He has been a joker all along, making people laugh when talking to them, cracked a lot of jokes, and the uninitiated, like the delegates to the PAS Muktamar last June, elected him as Deputy President. How can he be other than a joker when he said the communist terrorist who led the attack on the Bukit Kepong Police Station killing many Policemen in the 1950s was a national hero.
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IGP has used the wrong word –
IGP: Cops punished by Bar Council
PUTRAJAYA: The Malaysian Bar Council has “punished” the police force by denouncing their actions during the Bersih rally in its interim report, said Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Ismail Omar yesterday.
The Bar Council simply cannot be said to be punishing the Police. Who are they? They have no power at all. In fact the Police should punish them. Members of the Bar broke the laws with the Bersih organizers. Some were in fact on the organizing committee.
Ismail was asked to comment on the resolution made last week by the Bar Council demanding that both he and Hishammuddin apologise for the alleged police brutality during the April 28 Bersih rally. Who are they to “demand”? Erratic fellows. A nuisance. Especially because they broke the law.
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Shakespeare said that the ills that men (and women) do live after them. They sure do, even after their jail terms. Once a criminal, the name lives on.
Shakespeare also said that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Ambiga is indeed scorned. 10 NGOs including Perkasa and Perkida even want her citizenship and honorary titles withdrawn. Fury worse than hell indeed.
But I want to see Ambiga and Anwar arrested and charged in court. They have done enough damage to our justice system. I can write at length about that but most readers already know.
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It is said that lawyers are Officers of the Court. But what Officer of the Court is Ambiga when she says, “We’ll leave that (whether to surrender or not) to the people” in a comment on yesterday’s police warning that a house-to-house search would ensue should the suspects fail to present themselves to police within a week – FMT.
Shouldn’t she be advising them to surrender and then get lawyers to defend them if charged in court? Just what kind of a lawyer is she? She really should be charged for the illegal Bersih affair. The Assembly was illegal by all counts. .
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I also like the article in NST under the heading “Bar Council’s democratic pretensions”.
It says that the right to peaceful assembly is now sacrosanct, but the right to location for a peaceful assembly is a privilege to be earned and subject to security concerns.
DAP also has democratic pretensions. Tunku A Aziz the conscientious DAP vice-chairman was demonised by the democratically-challenged elements of the “Democratic” Action Party, his 3-year senatorship extension abruptly denied.
Ambiga also has democratic pretensions. She could take her goons demonstrating out on the streets. But complained against the small traders demonstrating on the street in front of her house. Instead of graciously accepting the tit-for-tat, Ambiga whined that her privacy was invaded and her political supporters grumbled that the burger-selling skit was unlawful. Exactamundo, said the writer. Let’s demo against her, said this writer, me. And I like he words, “Ambiga learnt that she and her ilk gagged silly when a dose of their own medicine is shoved down their throats. You can’t even eat your own dog food.”
And saying the Bar Council’s EGM on Friday (where some reports claimed chambering students mingled and might have voted) “approved a resolution that basically disparaged the police for doing their job.”
One part of their report said, “The police were initially restrained. However, this changed at approximately 3:00 pm, when there was a breach of the perimeter barriers set up at the junction of Jalan Tun Perak and Jalan Raja.” Look at that. They actually admitted that there was a perimeter breach but conveniently avoided elaborating on the details of the breach. The Bar engages in the 939 members “mob coercion, railroading the resolution and committing the very peccancy it usually unloads on lawmakers in the Dewan Rakyat.”
It is utterly ridiculous to refer to the Bar Council as a neutral watchdog.”They pre-meditated themselves as Bersih’s co-conspirators and gladly act as amplifiers for opposition infamy.” As at least 78 of them had an active part as so-called Marshals and a number sat on the Steering Committee, the Bar Council could even be deemed as organizers of the Bersih rally with ex-Council President Ambiga as the head.
The writer also says that the Bar Council has played themselves into the hands of “one man’s fantastical obsession to fulfil his destiny to become prime minister” – Anwar.
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I wish there are more of the “silent majority” of lawyers coming out like this Ranjit Singh Dhillon. He questioned the Bar Council’s impartiality, reported Free Malaysia Today. Well done, Ranjit. Hope to see more of you and the likes of you.
The criminal lawyer takes the Bar Council to task for its hastily prepared report on the Bersih 3.0. He not only questioned the Council’s impartiality but also its professionalism in a video that is now being circulated online. He singled out Bar Council president Lim Chee Wee, reminding him that the council was not a political body and asked if the Council was being “hijacked”. Well said, Ranjit
Referring to an interim report of council’s “monitoring teams”, Ranjit questioned why was there a need to publish it so soon. “…the haste in which the report was churned out .,. This is an issue of national interest. We, as a professional body, should take time to coordinate with the relevant agencies and come out with a detailed report. Is the Bar Council a professional body or is it being hijacked by certain others?” asked the criminal lawyer. Bloody good points, mate.
Ranjit said that Lim had “shot himself in the foot” when the report mentions that police were “not provoked” but on another page, it was recorded that the police were taunted. This is what I call a fair and responsible comment. Borrowing the words of a foreign news agency report on Anwar, I’d say that the Bar Council has some explaining to do.
“Now what is the Bar Council president talking about? He is the leader of a professional body, and yet in the space of 26 pages, he has contradicted himself.
“Next, he has completely kept quiet about what started the stampede. Are we professionals? Are we lawyers, Mr president? Please give us the full picture of what happened that day.”
Ranjit also defended the police, saying that they have been “patient” when protesters initially barged through the barricades at Dataran Merdeka. It was only when the crowd became “unruly” and “property was damaged” that they acted, he said. Again I’ll say this is a bloody fair comment. Good on you, Ranjit.
Ranjit also said that the Bar Council seems to have been strangely silent on who instigated the breaching of the barricades. Ranjit called for a proper report based on an “exhaustive” study of the whole situation. “You are the only professional body we can count on, don’t let us down.”
On May 1, the Bar Council’s interim report criticized the police, saying that brutality against protesters during Bersih 3.0 was worse than Bersih 2.0. The interim report was a compilation of reports from 78 of the council’s volunteer observers positioned at six locations on the ground. Can these fellows be judges or even referees? No Sireee, they can’t. Not with that kind of biased, rushed up report, they surely can’t. Over my dead body, Karpal Singh would say.
Lim had reportedly said that a breach of the barricades did not justify the disproportionate force used by police that went against international standards. Lim appears to be slimy in his intent and stance. Kudos on Ranjit for saying it out loud. Encore, encore, Ranjit.
I’d vote Ranjit to be President of the Bar Council. I’d urge the majority of lawyers vote in a responsible and sensible lawyer to be President.
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Yes, there must be a “silent majority” of lawyers out there who did not take part in Bersih 3.0 and have not voiced out against the breaking of the law by so many on that fateful Saturday 28 April 2010. “A day of infamy,” said President Roosevelt of the Japanese attack on Pear Harbor that led the US into World War II, much to the delight of the British. Berih 3.0 was not of Pearl Harbor proportions. But a day of infamy all the same.
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Bear in mind that all lawyers are also Officers of the Law. Ask any lawyer and they’ll not deny that. They are supposed to uphold the law and not break it. They only find legal arguments to get their clients off the hook. They are expected to report to the authorities of any breach of the law that they come across. And Bersih 3.0 was a huge breach of the law. Against DBKL rules and regulations. Against the Court Order. Against marching, with under 21s, even children, and an Aussie foreigner taking part, all prohibited under the Peaceful Assembly Act.
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We know there are thousands of lawyers all over this country. I think those attending the Lawyers Association annual general meeting to elect the Bar Council (committee members?) are only several hundred. Their quorum for holding the meeting is only a few hundred.
I believe the vast majority of lawyers have been silent, law abiding members of society. Only the misled few that are taken up by the Opposition party lines. And those having a grudge against the Establishment for one reason or another. Including the dominance of Malays in the Establishment and anything to do with government, the security and armed forces of the country. But how can there be no Malay dominance when the Malays are the majority in the country and the non-Malays are not keen to serve in the security forces. And they are not willing to accept fully the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak under Article 153 of the Constitution. Like the DAP which has been anti-Malay since its inception. Not abiding by the Social Contract when they accepted the citizenship of this country that was agreed to by the Malays at Merdeka.
I support the call for more lawyers to come out and speak against the irresponsible acts perpetrated by the former Bar Council President Ambiga, now apparently continued by the sitting President who jumps to conclusion in his opinions and in the report on Bersih. I also urge more lawyers to attend the Lawyers Association annual general meeting and elect responsible people to the Committee. To my mind the Bar Council is synonymous with irresponsible behavior. What a shame.
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According to Bernama at http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v6/newsgeneral.php?id=664984:
There are 13,000 Lawyers in the country, quorum is 1/5 of Bar Council membership, in the past only around 300 attending, many AGMs and EGMs had been postponed due to lack of quorum. No wonder the less responsible and noisy ones got elected because most of the responsible ones didn’t attend the AGMs.
The Legal Profession Act was amended in 2006 allowing for quorum at 500 members.
Please, you responsible lawyers, attend the AGM and get the responsible ones among you to head the Bar Council and sit on the Committee. Tun Dr Mahathir has long spoken for the Bar Council to put their house in order – many debarred, cheating, CBT etc, now one fellow charged for murder also. And not so responsible fellows got on to the Committee creating havoc, like Ambiga and gang.
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According to Bar Council president Lim Chee Wee (as reported by MI), there are 14,000 members and only 1,270 attended the Extraordinary General Meeting yesterday – only 9% attended.
The number who voted the resolution on the so-called “Police brutality” was 939. The rest voted against or abstained. Those who voted for the resolution constituted only 6% of the total number of voters in the country. A tiny fraction.
The AGM lasted 3 hours, showing there were lengthy debates, which, according to another report elsewhere, included booing. Booing at a Bar Council general meeting? What can you expect of Bersih rally attendees some of whom were described by Tun Dr Mahathir (the Star) as hooligans.
One disgusted lawyer has called for the Government to set up another Bar Council – such a council was set up by an act of Parliament, I think, just like the amendment to the quorum for general meetings (now 500) was done in Parliament.
I support that call. Otherwise, the Government should find ways to change the voting process at the AGM so that the responsible ones get on the Committee. Those on the Bersih steering and other committees (Bar Council had 78 lawyers as so-called Monitors) were irresponsible – even DAP Vice President Tunku Aziz, who was said to have worked at he UN before, said Bersih organizers were not responsible, encouraging the citizens to break the law on peaceful assemblies.
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Some people suggested the creation of an alternative Bar Council. Nazri Aziz, Minister in the PM’s Dept (himself also a lawyer) also talked about the creation of an alternative Bar Council and said those in the present Bar Council who want to participate in politics should register a political party.
But the President of the existing Bar Council said the Bar Council could not be simply dissolved as suggested by Nazri, although members could always propose motions of no-confidence against the council members, which had happened in the past but were defeated. Of course they were defeated because those attending and voting like at the last EGM were only 6% of the total number of lawyers in the country. The 6% were the vociferous and noisiest kind and the silent majority (more than 90%) hardly attended.
Who the hell says the existing Bar Council cannot be declared null and void or modified? It was set up by an Act of Parliament carried under a simple majority – no need 2/3 majority. The same simple majority in Parliament can undo what was done but which had become politicised.
And he said “only the Bar Council is empowered under the Act to set the standards, regulate and issue practising certificates.” But what “standards” are they talking about when they allow themselves to be used by and are promoting Opposition parties’ views.
And Council member and the Bar’s constitutional law committee chairman Syahredzan Johan said, “The minister is well aware that the Malaysian Bar and the Bar Council were created by an Act of Parliament. The Bar cannot dissolve itself into anything.” Isn’t that a stupid remark coming from a so-called constitutional law committee chairman? Hasn’t he heard such thing as “repealing Acts of Parliament”? Or the replacement of such things as the ISA? Anyone who knows can show me the law stating that the Act creating the Bar Council cannot be repealed, then, if valid, can call me stupid in return.
This Syahredzan fellow said, “(What Nazri said was a) political statement and one which I do not think anyone should entertain.” Actually, his statement is the one that should not be entertained. What qualification and experience has he got, anyway?
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More views coming out to hit the Bar Council. The star says: “Bar has lost its integrity, say lawyers.”
Several senior lawyers are questioning the integrity and independence of the Bar Council over its stand on the Bersih 3.0 rally. Roger Tan from the Johor Bar said the council should have condemned the law breakers at the Malaysian Bar’s extraordinary general meeting (EGM) last Friday. “We should condemn those who broke the law because we also must be seen to be upholding the rule of law,” he said.
Tan said he had informed the EGM not to prejudge the issue as Suhakam’s inquiry “had not concluded.” To my knowledge, Suhakam has not even decided whether to investigae or not. They said, wait until after the Panel’s findings. They have faith in the Panel, unlike the extremist, bias and undemocratic DAP.
I support Tan also hitting out at members who had publicly censured the council, yet did not turn up for the EGM. “Even if you don’t like resolutions, you must come and vote. He said, “There are probably 1,000 lawyers who are members of Barisan Nasional component parties.” I believe there are many thousands, as the Malaysian Bar has 14,000 members.
Of course Datuk Mohd Hafarizam Harun, another senior lawyer and Umno legal adviser.was more hard-hitting in his comments and called for council members to resign. “Bar Council has been infested’ with political opportunists. It has lost its true struggles to safeguard the welfare and interests of its members,” he said. Yes, what “safeguarding the welfare and interests of its members” are they taking about? Should political interests constitute the interests of the members? If so, amend the Legal Profession Act. Or those Bar members who are interested in politics should register a political party.
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I’m glad that the Government has responded positively to the demand made by many for an alternative Bar Council. They are talking in terms of a Law Academy. Bernama quoted Nazri, Minister in PM’s Dept, saying the proposal to set up a law academy will be discussed by the Cabinet and the Attorney-General soon.
He said it was high time for a new organisation, other than the Bar Council, be formed to represent “those who studied law”, including academicians. But why so? Why not “to represent those lawyers who feel their well being and interests are not protected and promoted by the existing Bar Council”?
Bar Council member Abu Backer Sidek had recently proposed that a new, independent lawyer’s association be formed as the existing Bar Council had failed to defend itself as a professional body with integrity. Bernama said the government had also agreed with the demand made by a group of lawyers intending to form “a new organisation to represent their profession, welfare and legal interests.”
Nazri talked about breaking up the monopoly on the matter of legal interpretation. “I’m sure those in academia would have better interpretation of the law. The Bar Council may not get it right all the time. They are very partisan. I don’t think they should be given a monopoly,” he said.
As such, I don’t think the matter of members of the existing Malaysian Bar taking an active part in activities that are politically motivated, or allowing themselves to be used by political parties, will dissipate. They may even escalate.
This is the problem when the Government does not take a bold and assertive stand, presumably because of the votes. There must be an alternative Bar Council that the 14,000 lawyers (the Minister once quoted the figure of 20,000, presumably including those not in private practice) to choose for the protection and promotion of their rights, interests and welfare. The vast majority must want a non-partisan, purely professional law body that the existing Malaysian Bar Council is not.
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Please allow me to reproduce excerpts from a doctor’s comment published in the atrociously oppositional Malaysiakini for 2 reasons: that M’kini appears not pro-Bersih this time, and/or the Editor was sleeping when someone allowed this be published.
Was it the Bar Council’s or Malaysian Bar’s EGM?
Dr Daphne Loke, 4:52PM May 16, 2012
The Bar Council had commented that because it was created under an Act of Parliament, “go ahead, dissolve it”.
I will not speculate what the comment was meant for. I would like to highlight certain provisions of the Legal Profession Act 1976 (Act 166) to share with those, who like myself have puzzled on “Whose EGM is it? Bar Council’s or the Malaysian Bar’s?”
The Act was passed by Parliament “to consolidate the law relating to the legal profession in Malaysia”.
s.41 the purpose of the Malaysian Bar includes “to maintain and improve the standards of conduct and learning of the legal profession in Malaysia”.
Membership to the Malaysian Bar (now 14,000) is by application to the qualifying board which is chaired by the attorney general assisted by two judges nominated by the chief justice, A dean of the faculty of law nominated by the minister of education and the chairman of the bar council.
The final stage for membership to the Malaysian Bar is being awarded with a Sijil Annual for legal practice. Interesting to note, too, is that the lawyer’s membership to the Malaysian Bar can be challenged.
47(1) states “For the proper management of the affairs of the Malaysian Bar and for the proper performance of its functions under the Act, there shall be a council to be known as the Bar Council”. One of its major task is the issuance of the Sijil Annual to practicing lawyers.
The website http://www.malaysianbar.org.my also states that “the Bar Council comprises of 36 members who are elected annually to manage the affairs and execute the functions of the Malaysian Bar”.
s.48 of the Act states , “every member of the Bar Council shall hold office for one year, but shall be eligible for re-election” and s.54 which states that “…but no president, vice-president or secretary shall hold office for more than two consecutive years”.
Since the Bar Council is an administrative office set up for the purpose of managing the affairs of the Malaysian Bar having some 14,000 members, when can the Bar Council act on its own and claim to be acting on behalf of the body corporate, i.e. the Malaysian Bar?
The Act, where it refers to what the Bar Council can do, is punctuated with expressions such as, “with the approval of “, “with prior approval”, “not expressly reserved to the Malaysian Bar”, ” provided no such resolution of the Malaysian Bar”…. etc….etc…
(MY COMMENT: I WONDER IF MINISTER NAZRI AZIZ HAS READ THESE IN DETAIL?)
s.62(1) expressly points out “the Bar Council may decide to call a meeting at any time and place as may be necessary …. at the request in writing of not less than one half of its members call an emergency meeting of the Bar Council to consider any urgent matter”.
This would mean there should be requests in writing from at least 18 members of the Bar Council.
s.67 (1) deals with quorum of meeting of the Malaysian Bar – “The quorum of a general meeting of the Malaysian Bar shall be one-fifth of the total members of the Malaysian Bar personally present or any greater number”.
Since the Malaysian Bar has 14,000 members, one-fifth of it should be 2,800 members of the Malaysia Bar – being present in person. The 1,270 attendees of the Saturday EGM was not even one-tenth. (MY COMMENT: THIS HAS BEEN AMENDED TO 500 MEMBERS. BUT LESS THAN 10% ATTENDANCE AT THE EGM IS VERY CORRECT).
The reputation of the Bar Council is not a matter of only those in the legal profession. (MY COMMENT: INDEED, AS “the qualifying board is chaired by the attorney general assisted by two judges nominated by the chief justice, A dean of the faculty of law nominated by the minister of education and the chairman of the bar council.”)
I am certain that when the Parliament enacted the Legal Profession Act 1976 it did not intend for any of the office bearers of the Bar Council to use the office for personal interest. (MY COMMENT: BLOODY GOOD POINT, DOCTOR).
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Sorry for repeating my earlier comment at 8:01 (appearing well down below) and placing it at a prominent place among the top here to catch the attention of readers – I might have learnt about attention seeking from the darn Bersih and the political leaders associated with them. I don’t mind if my 8:01 comment not published in deference to this one.
I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think repeatedly calling for the arrest of the Bersih leaders and politicians exploiting the rally is an offence. If anyone knows otherwise, pls indicate it to us. If anyone can quote the law and the relevant sections of the law saying it’s an offence, I’d appreciate it. Until that time I presume we can keep calling for the arrest of the culprits so long as we don’t call for violence, riot and mayhem against them.
If they can shout “Police brutalities” etc in dispersing the crowd and in preventing the situation from getting worse, why can’t others keep calling for their arrest. We have rights, too. We are entitled to have a peace of mind, not to be bothered by traffic jams, LRT shut downs, minors and small children shown on TV as being taught to go against authority at such a tender age. Teaching nonsensical values to the young.
Assemble as you want, at the designated or permissible places, shout to your hearts content there. Not on the streets where you trample on the rights of others by your arrogant and stupid doing. Good that the Peaceful Assembly Act has been enacted, now there is no more excuse for anybody to want to catch the headlines by provoking the authorities into dispersing an unruly crowd in a place normally enjoyed by other members of the public. .
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Bernama yesterday reported Datuk Seri Najib reminded Malaysians to have respect for the law. He was referring to the illegal Bersih 3.0 rally where some people damaged public property and assaulted members of the security forces. He pointed out that policemen and soldiers were also normal human beings who had families and children. “If we injure them, what will be the feelings of their children and families?” he asked.
He said those at a presentation ceremony at the Military 4th Mechanised Brigade Camp in Pekan. The Military are highly disciplined in their training. Surely they too would like to see the rakyat respect the law.
So far in the country’s history, the Police have been able to control and disperse crowds during demonstrations. Except for the 13 May 1969 race riots where the Military was called in to help maintain law and order and enforce curfews. The military is ever willing to help the Police, like they said immediately prior to Bersih 2.0. Because they are also members of the country’s security forces. Their primary responsibility is security against external aggression. But they are also concerned about internal stability because internal chaos and disorder may invite external aggression.
I therefore support the call for the organizers of Bersih 3.0, especially Ambiga, be arrested and charged in court. They knew that calling for the public to go to Dataran Merdeka was inciteful and seditious because the Magistrate’s Order had declared the area inviolable. They knew that the Peaceful Assembly Act (PAA) was in force beginning 23 April. They knew that marching from designated points to the Dataran Merdeka was prohibited under the PAA. They knew that the 78 lawyers, so-called Marshals, from the Malaysian Bar Council were powerless in terms of controlling the behaviour of the rally participants. Ambiga knew that when, at Masjid Jamek, she announced through the loud hailer the “success” of the rally and advised the crowd to disperse, they didn’t, and she went on with them in the direction of the Dataran Merdeka.
The organizers had no idea of the discipline and the kind of crowd-control training, if any, of the 500 so-called Unit Amal from PAS wearing red shirts, yet agreed to their presence, and a few of them in fact participated in the violence. They knew politicians would be participating, like Anwar Ibrahim and Azmin Ali of PKR, who were reported to be inciting the participants to breach Dataran Merdeka by Anwar’s hand signals and Azmin’s inciteful speech.
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Parti parti politik pembangkang dan penyokong penyokongnya akan tuduh apa saja. Tuduh liar, tak ada bukti, tak ada justifikasi, malah selalu tak ada penerangan yang munasabah pun bagi pendapat pendapat yang mereka keluarkan. Termasuk Lim Guan Eng, SUA DAP sendiri. Dia kata Tun Hanif Omar tidak bebas dan tidak sesuai mengetuai Panel mengkaji Bersih 3.0.
Tun Hanif telah berkata tidak akan ada konflik kepentingan seperti di tuduh pihak Pembangkang, kerana Panel itu akan mecari dan menentukan fakta fakta. Sudah tentu apa yang di kata fakta, Pembangkang kata tidak. Dan apa yang pendapat mereka kata fakta. Ini lah yang menyebabkan negara ini rasa tidak aman. Putar belit, demo jalanan dan himpunan haram mereka.
Tun Hanif kata tohmahan yang serupa telah di keluarkan di masa dia di Panel mengkaji penembakan budak berumur 14 tahun, Aminulrasyid Amzah, di tahun 2010. Dia suruh LGE periksa dengan ahli ajhli Panel lain jika dia berat sebelah di situ.
Pada hal Panel itu terdiri dari orang orang yang mewakili berberapa pihak, termasuk Hakim bersara, Tan Sri Steve Shim, dan dua orang dari pihak akhbar – Datuk Hussamuddin Yaacub, Pengarah Urusan Sinar Harian, dan Liew Peng Chuan, Penasihat kapada Media Chinese International (Sin Chew Group) , kerana ada dakwaan Polis tidak bertindak adil terhadap wartawan di himpunan Bersih itu.
Saya fikir jangan hiraukan sangat tuduhan pihak Pembangkang itu. Kita keluarkan hujah hujah sebaliknya di sana sini seperti di blog ini.
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yhbt
So the 5 states won in PRU12 by the opposition were based on electoral fraud?
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After the dust has settled – at least as far as on Dataran Merdeka is concerned (around it and about it is far from being settled yet, as 49 law breakers are being sought by the Police right now) – it has become clear that Bersih was not intended as a civic Election Commission issue. It was an attempt to overthrow the government by other than the democratic process i.e not through the votes.
Tun Dr Mahathir has said it several days ago. Yesterday DS Najib said it in Gua Musang. I fully agree with those opinions. No more, no less.
The facts have been put out here, there and everywhere. If they just want to bring up election issues, they wouldn’t have bothered about the venue for the rally. When DBKL told them no consent on the use of Dataran Merdeka, no visible reason to be stubborn. When the Police obtained the Court Order stating no entry on Dataran Merdeka, why Ambiga et al continued instigating supporters to go to Dataran Merdeka after that? When she reached Masjid Jamek, declared her satisfaction on the so-called “success” of the rally and the supporters insisted on going to Dataran Merdeka, why did she march with them in that direction? She must have known that marching is illegal under the Peaceful Assembly Act.
When the Police started firing water canon and tear gas upon the Dataran being breached, where were the so-called scores of “Marshals” comprising of Bar Council members and others, the PAS so-called Unit Amal to start loud hailing everybody to disperse? When the Police fired tear gas canisters, why did they, at Masjid Jamek, come out again during the lull after every canister was shot? Weren’t those proofs of the demonstrators challenging the Police?
All those were evidence that led to the belief that the the rally was intended to show force, that they were stronger than the Police, their attempt to occupy Dataran Merdeka for a few days, attract more members of the public to join and bring down the government by hooliganism and public disorder. DS Najib said so to 30,000 who rallied in Gua Musang yesterday and I think he is right. That number in an otherwise sleepy town such as Gua Musang may even be more than the 25,000 Bersih participants who gathered in KL on 28 April.
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That’s why the political masters, the bureaucrats and those responsible for the maintenance of peace and order must be firm and steadfast in their stand. Stick to the law and an interpretation of the law that serves the purpose of the public at large, the silent majority and the non rally-participatig citizens. We have rights too and we expect them to look after our interest in peace and order, in wanting a peace of mind, without any disturbance and worry caused by the errant blokes. Let them take any grievance arsing from that strict interpretation to the Court.
On the matter of the inviolability of Dataran Merdeka, the Court has has already given a Court Order, anyway. And remember that during Bersih 2, the Military has already expressed their readiness to support the Police in the event the demos went unruly. I have no doubt that the Military is ready to do so any time requested for help in any other unruly assembly in the future. But, for goodness sake, stick to a strict interpretation of the laws.
If the Peaceful Assembly Act stipulates only designated venues for such assemblies, so be it. Do not give any exception. These are fellows who would want a yard and more once given an inch. And take accomodation or leniency as a sign of weakness that can be exploited on. Especially the Pendatangs of the Ghee Hins and the Hai Sans variety who have been exploiting the locals since the 19th Century. There are many of them in the DAP.
As the Act says no marching, ensure that they don’t march. If they do, slam them with the response as allowed by law. Again, let them go to the Court if and when disgruntled with the treatment meted out. Remember that all countries in the world get criticized by their citizens for Police action on riots etc. Including the country touted as the most liberal in the world – US. And the country that is supposed to have been democratic and having a Parliamentary system of democracy for hundreds of years – UK. And the country from which liberte, legalite and fraternite evolved from the embers of the French Revolution in 1789 – France.
And don’t worry about the so-called Arab Spring kind of Malaysian Spring touted by the politically bankrupt, frustrated and loser-in-the-making-again Anwar Ibrahim. It’s madness to talk about that in this country. As if this country has had no elections every 4-5 years in the last 54 years. As if there are no sky scrapers and the rakyat have no FELDA schemes and private estates, factories etc for work and sustenance. The Egyptians with 5,000 years of history have nothing to show except ancient monuments and relics of antiquity, and Hosni Mubarak ruled for 30 years on the basis of Emergency laws. And the Libyans ruled by a ruthless dictator also using Emergency laws for 41 years. Sure the Egyptians and the Libyans rose against the Establishment in a big way. No such thing in Malaysia. They said only 6,000 showed up at Bersih 2 and 25,000 showed up at Bersih 3. Of course they’d like to amuse themselves claiming astronomical attendance figures.
I’m happy with the Police at Bersih 2 & 3. I have every confidence in them. And the military to help, if anything untoward occurs in the future. I’m also happy with many of the comments in here. Including those using the words ridiculous, nonsensical attendance estimates, riotous, inciteful, goon-like behavour and the like, But most of all, I want to salute DAP Vice President and Senator Tunku A Aziz who said Bersih organizers were irresponsible, encouraging the citizens to break the law and he’d have nothing to do with that despite the DAP participating in it.
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I love this man Tunku A Aziz. If he’s not DAP/ PR, I’d vote him any time. I’d even marry him if I were of Ambiga’s gender.
He has been the lone voice within the DAP and Pakatan Rakyat who had openly declared his rejection of Bersih 3, saying the event encourages Malaysians to “break the law”. Despite being rebuked by Lim Guan Eng, he now says the organisers of Bersih 3.0 cannot squarely blame the police for the violence that occurred during last Saturday’s rally. A man who sticks to his belief no matter what, a man of principle. A commodity hardly known to the likes of Ambiga and the goons on the streets on April 28. Those who instigated and those who marched to Dataran Merdeka despite the Court Order declaring it out of bounds.
“Bersih 3.0 organisers are not a group of angels descended from heaven who are completely blameless … The Bersih organizers should accept that there are substantial elements within the rally from people whose intentions were to create havoc and cause chaos as long as it is possible,” the DAP vice-chairman was quoted by The Star as saying.
“Instead of shifting all the blame on the police, they need to realise that they are at fault too. Besides, they are not a group of angels descended from heaven who are completely blameless,” he added. But it must be pointed out that it’s the Bersih blokes who started them all. The matter of stimulus and response. Bersih action bringing Police reaction. Getting nasty in a mob situation.
“Bersih 3.0 lost control of their agenda because their agenda was hijacked,” said the DAP leader. But, more than being hijacked, it might even have been planned quietly. Anwar was widely said to have arranged for funds from the Neo-Cons’ so-called promotion of democracy NGOs in US. During the arguments over Police permit for Bersih 2, Ambiga was reported to have received funds from abroad through her account in a bank where an Opposition member/ supporter was a shareholder. Of course Ambiga would not say anything about Anwar’s sign language with Azmin Ali immediately preceding the breaching of Dataran Merdeka. Or reports of PAS funding busloads of people from Kedah and Kelantan to “jalan jalan ke Kuala Lumpur” with free transport, accomodation, food and even pocket money.
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“People like Ambiga, Samad Said, & the demonstrators have been demonised so much,” says the first comment. Not enough, Sir, not enough. They broke the law and encouraged others to do the same, didn’t you realize that? So many people have said so, including the Vice-President of usually chaos-loving, street-demonstrating DAP – Tunku Abdul Aziz himself.
Looks like anybody can get a group of people and form a so-called NGO. And Bersih claimed to have 81 NGOs. some 60 of whose names were verified as not being registered with the Registrar of Societies. Now one NGO calling itself Human Rights Movement (Proham) called upon the government to establish a Royal Commission of Inquiry (RCI) to probe the violence that occurred in the Bersih 3.0 rally.
What “clear the air” are they talking about? When the findings of the RCI on the Teoh Beng Hock’s death were not accepted by the very people who called for the RCI. And everybody keeps calling for RCI. As if it can be a play play thing, making a mockery of the RCI system of justice. RCI this, RCI that. Wasting a huge amount of effort, money, human resources and distracting attention from the need for the Police to whack the culprits legally.
It matters not even if a few names in the NGO are well known like Ramon Navaratnam who may have unwittingly lent his name anyway. But the integrity of such an RCI-calling NGO becomes compromised when they begin by defending Ambiga. Stop the attacks on Ambiga they said. What a joke. If you are calling for an RCI, why say “We believe that Ambiga had acted within her constitutional right by demanding for a free and fair election”? Has she the right to break the law and instigate others to do the same? What about the constitutional right of the silent majority?
Proham is after some 10 NGOs including Perkasa and Pekida calling upon the government to revoke Ambiga’s citizenship and strip her of her honorary titles for organizing the Bersih rally. I support the 10 NGOs.
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I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think repeatedly calling for the arrest of the Bersih leaders and politicians exploiting the rally is an offence. If anyone knows otherwise, pls indicate it to us. If anyone can quote the law and the relevant sections of the law saying it’s an offence, I’d appreciate it. Until that time I presume we can keep calling for the arrest of the culprits so long as we don’t call for violence, riot and mayhem against them.
If they can shout “Police brutalities” etc in dispersing the crowd and preventing the situation from getting worse, why can’t others keep calling for their arrest. We have rights, too. We are entitled to have a peace of mind, not to be bothered by traffic jams, LRT shut downs, minors and small children being shown on TV as being taught to go against authority at such a tender age.
Assemble as you want, at the designated or permissible places, shout to your hearts content there. Not on the streets where you trample on the rights of others by your arrogant and stupid doing. Good that the Peaceful Assembly Act has been enacted, now there is no more excuse for anybody to want to catch the headlines by provoking the authorities into dispersing an unruly crowd in a place normally enjoyed by other members of the public. .
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It’s sad to be you. Please keep your taxes to BN so Rosmah can go shopping.
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It’s sadder to be you for being ignorant & blind
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Lagi lagi Rosmah.. Damn.. U aint got no new issues right that u keep on harping on tales that long proven to be just lies and fabricated.
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it’s even more sad to be funny 10:48, i bet you scratched ur empty head badly to find more intelligent argument but couldn’t any. ur only argument is rosmah which got nothing to do with bersih3.0 or fair election. while we keep paying taxes for the good of the country, you can keep following the ambiguous ambiga to her not so bersih rally and lgbt rally. we all already know who ur preferred leader is. after this i bet u’ll be even funnier because depan can.. belakang also can.. hahaha
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Typical non-sensical chinese
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This is probably the 3434556345345 i’ve heard this bloody comment. Yeah, i know and now could you look for more constructive arguments?
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you should point out case by case basis what changes has been made. true, more research needs to be done, but let it’s shows your thorough.
at the end of day, daily politics in malaysia are nothing but game of thrones… kings and queens fight and negotiate to claim the throne, the commoners keep on being f*cked. no wonder the top 1% owns everything in this world…
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That’s where you should click on the links provided. Thank you.
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Do you agree with their 8 demands? They asking for something right, so what the problem.
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No problem at all. That is why the PSC recommendeded their demands to the Parliament and were approved. What is Bersih’s problem now? Angry that their demands were met?
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Dari pengundian yang adil lah segalanya bermula.
Rakyat Indonesia, Pakistan dan lain2 diberi IC biru, berstatus pemastautin tetap dan diberi kelayakan mengundi. Kenapa boleh jadi macam tu?
Bila pengundian dibuat dengan betul. Kenapa perlu jemput orang luar untuk mengundi?
Tukar kerajaan sekarang. Kalau PR menang nanti dan tak boleh pimpin. Tukar lah balik ke BN. tak susah pun.
BN kalah di Selangor, dan Pulau Pinang sebab dia tak gunakan lagi idea untuk bawak orang luar masuk dan benarkan mereka mengundi.
Berikan satu sebab kukuh kenapa Program Pemutihan dijalankan?
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evidence (picture, document, etc) or didn’t happen
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“Rakyat Indonesia, Pakistan dan lain2 diberi IC biru, berstatus pemastautin tetap dan diberi kelayakan mengundi. Kenapa boleh jadi macam tu?”
Sebab mereka fasih bertutur dalam Bahasa Melayu, hormat Raja Raja, ikut adat resam hidup diMalaysia. Tak macam rakyat satu bangsa tu, yang tak fasih berbicara dalam Bahasa Kebangsaan, sambil berkiblatkan negara asal yang sudah terang menolak mereka.
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ynizam,
Anda perlu membaca lebih untuk mengtahui fakta fakta berkaitan isu isu yang anda kemukakan. Baca lah berita Pemerintah juga, seperti berita Bernama, jangan berlebihan sangat berita Pembangkang. Jangan terbawa bawa kapada dakwaan dan tuduhan pihak pihak Pembangkang yang selalunya tidak ada bukti, justifikasi, walau penerangan sekali pun. Seperti tuduhan anda berkaitan pemberian K/P biru itu. Beri lah penjelasan, sekurang kurangnya di mana, siapa yang berbuat demikian, contoh contoh dsbnya. Selagi tidak ada bukti, itu semua tuduhan liar sahaja.
Anda juga perlu mengeluarkan fikiran yang matang, tidak mengesyurkan hari ini tukar Kerajaan, tak suka, besok tukar lagi. Jahanam negara jika berbuat begitu. Segala kelemahan BN, Pakatan Rakyat ada, walau pun baru sahaja 2-3 tahun merintah, kalau lama, lagi teruk.
Tahu lah anda bahawa Program Pemutihan itu bertujuan menentukan orang asing yang berkerja di sini secara haram di dokumentasikan bagi mengawal kemasukan keluar mereka, di beri kebenaran berkerja di atas syarat syarat tertentu, bukan bagi memberi K/P kapada sesiapa.
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hari ini kamu beri kuasa kpd mereka, esok mereka jual semua tanah2 org melayu seperti yg terjadi di pulau pinang. apatah lagi bagi 5 tahun..melayu akan jd tukang angkut sampah di kawasan perumahan mewah kaum itu saja..katakan dpt balik kuasa tu, melayu akan hanya ada kuasa, tanah dipijak sudah milik org..saya tak rela itu berlaku..ya kerajaan sekarang tidak sempurna, tetapi yg ingin menggantikannya jauh lebih teruk lagi..pada usia saya 32 tahun sekarang, saya membesar dgn negara yg ditadbir kerajaan BN..jika saya berusaha, saya dapat apa yg saya nak, jika saya tidak usaha sudah tentu saya tak dapat apa2 pun..jd apa yg tak kena dgn kerajaan? saya bersekolah, dpt biasiswa di sekolah, masuk universiti, bekerja sebagai guru sekarang, saya tak nampak apa yg tak kena dgn hidup saya di malaysia ni..bila saya buka tv tgk rusuhan sana sini di luar negara, saya pasti akan panjatkan doa sesudah solat saya semoga negara kita tidak jd seperti itu, dan saya akan nyatakan kepada Allah betapa
bersyukurnya saya dilahirkan di dalam negara yg aman damai dan dimurahkan rezeki..
di universiti dulu ada seorang sahabat lelaki yg mengaku dia ahli PAS seumur hidup, pernah kata saya tak cukup mendalami Islam sb itu saya tak sokong PAS..selepas habis universiti, saya mendapat panggilan telefon dr seorg kawan perempuan dr perlis mengatakan dia dtg ke kuala lumpur dan dibawa naik motorsikal oleh sahabat lelaki saya td bersiar2 di bandar kuala lumpur..sesuatu yg tak akan saya sanggup lakukan kerana saya tahu Allah melarang hubungan lelaki dan perempuan bukan mhrim yg bebas begitu..
kesimpulannya pada pandangan saya, org PAS sentiasa merasa diri lebih baik dan lebih islam drp org lain sedangkan mereka juga berbuat dosa (tetapi sentiasa tidak merasa berdosa), org PKR akan sanggup berbuat apa saja asalkan pemimpin besar mereka dpt jd perdana menteri..macam mana cara nak memerintah nanti, itu pikir kemudian..DAP akan cuba sedaya upaya bagi memadamkan segala kelebihan org melayu di Malaysia ini kerana melayu pada pandangan mereka hina lagi bodoh dan tidak layak mendapat segala kelebihan itu..
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Sdri sitihasma,
Sedap membaca komen Sdri. Kalau boleh, mahu lagi. Terutama pasal Bersih yang nyata kotor di gaul dengan politik.
Di Kedah mereka dah jual tanah rezab Melayu di pinggir bandar untuk projek permumahan yang di jual 40% kapada bukan Melayu. Ganti tanah yang teman jin bertendang jadikan rizab Melayu. Ramai pulak depa yang di hantar oleh yang berkuasa di Kedah ke himpunan Bersih 3 di KL. Bagi tambang free, penginapan free, makan free, tambah duit kocek lagi.
PAS dah terikut rakan sebantal depa DAP – cakap tak serupa bikin. Bukan saja yang naik motosikal kenalan Sdri itu. Timbalan Presiden PAS Mat Sabu pun di katakan dulu di tangkap kahlwat di bilik 121 Hotel Perdana dengan seorang perempuan bernama Normah.
Diorang tak boleh jadi PM. Bergaduh antara depa. DAP tak mahu Hukum Hudud sampai mati, dalam PAS pun bergaduh – kumpulan Erdogan gugurkan impian Negara Islam dan Hudud, Nik Aziz kumpulan Ulama masih berkeras nakkan Hudud. Anwar kata Lim Kit Siang calon PM, DAP dah terima Anwar sebagai calon PM tapi PAS tak terima. Hadi Awang kata tak mustahak bincang siapa calon PM Pakatan Rakyat, sebab dia sendiri pun nak jadi PM jugak.
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Pembetulan:
“Anwar kata Lim Kit Siang calon PM, ..” sepatutnya “calon TPM”.
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” jika saya berusaha, saya dapat apa yg saya nak, jika saya tidak usaha sudah tentu saya tak dapat apa2 pun ” Jangan besar cakap tapi tak mampu buat. 1 Malaysia = semua rakyat sama? atau kamu bersikap ada kaum berhak menikmati dari hasil peluh kaum lain? Tak kan makna “rakyat Malaysia” = discriminasi ?
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Kamu dah mula cakap mengarut. Cara DAP. Subversif. Semua rakyat sama tapi mesti akui Kedudukan Istimewa Melayu dan Bumiputera Sabah dan Sarawak di Perkara 153 Perlembagaan. Ada pernah dengar? Kenapa tak dengar dan ambil kira bila kamu terima jadi rakyat Malaysia? Bukan kah itu balasan atau “consideration”nya bila kaum Melayu setujukan kerakyatan untuk bukan Melayu? Pernah dengar Kontrak Sosial? Tak akui juga macam DAP ke?
Bukan kah semua rakyat Malaysia mesti hormatkan dan patuhi Perlembagaan negara? Bukan kah Perlembagaan negara itu ukuran ta’at setia rakyat Malaysia kapada negara? Kalau tak, apa lagi ukurannya? Menjerit aku sayangkan Malaysia beratus kali? Itu ukuran setia kapada negara ini? Mengarut, kalau begitu.
“Hasil peluh kaum lain” apa yang kau maksudkan? Kau fikir kaum Cina yang bayar paling banyak cukai? Kau tak pernah baca kenyataan dari Perbendaharan/ Hasil Dalam Negeri bahawa kaum Cina bayar hanya 30% cukai, GLCs bayar 40% dan Melayu, dll termasuk orang orang asing bayar 30%?
Habis tu, kau tak fikirkan bahawa cukai yang kau bayar itu banyak di gunakan untuk menjaga keamanan di negara ini? Keamanan dalam negeri termasuk dari kongsi gelap, penyamun dan gengster, gejala yang kaum Cina bawa masuk sejak abad 19. Dan keselamatan dari ancaman luar seperti perang tak di istiharkan (undeclared war) dengan Indonesia yang di panggil Konfrontasi di tahun 1960an. Kamu tahu berapa ketul kaum lain ada di dalam Polis dan Tentera? Kamu mahu kata tidak dapat peluang berkhidmat dalam pasukan bersenjata? Mengarut.
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Anda membenarkan ayat saya yg terakhir,..’DAP akan cuba sedaya upaya bagi memadamkan segala kelebihan org melayu di Malaysia ini kerana melayu pada pandangan mereka hina lagi bodoh dan tidak layak mendapat segala kelebihan itu..”
Thank you :))
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greeting internet server,
ermm….setuju juga dgn cadangan atas tapi sempat le org melayu ‘melayu’ mcm kat Penang ni kalau bagi BN kalah.Actually all these matters happen becoz the slacken of the BN itself.Being non-malay but muslim I heard alots ,to be rich be a BN politian members even if u a just a ‘ tukang suruh’ ,u ll rich if u r YESMAN !That what happen to uneducated frens of mine, without a penny but can ‘mkn angin luaq negeri bawa kwn lagi’ ,a big company,rumah peranginan sana sini , have ‘tanah ‘luaq negeri lagi’ (jeles gak ni aku belajaq tinggi tapi dpt gaji byk tu je hjg bulan habis)’ just by ‘make’ hati YB senang n sure u dpt panggu!
And yet still those politian never care less becos they r all all rich …kalau kalah dok luaq negeri apa susah. Tengok je lah anak Nazri naik kereta jenis apa, bodyguard pun naik kereta mahal ( nak jadi bodyguard lah)sbb tu kerja lah dgn org politian boleh kaya !And the rakyat melayu juga yg di kuda, di umpan ,jadi tukang pacak ,yg senang yg ada hidden agenda —
********Jadi treasure hunter mcm Indiana Jones pun femes
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Ooi DoktanjunG,
Apa maksud kau cakap “org melayu ‘melayu’ mcm kat Penang ni”? Kau mahu menyindir gunakan bahasa Jawa yang bunyi lain sedikit tapi bermakna lari ke? Kau mahu jatuhkan maruah kaum Melayu ke? Jika demikian, aku kutuk dan keji kau seboleh boleh nya. Kalau boleh aku akan kejar kau sampai ke lubang cacing. Begitu sekali aku marah kau kalau kau persendakan kaum Melayu. Berhemah lah bila menulis dan bercakap.
Kau nak cakap politik, cakap lah. Tapi jangan sekali kali gunakan kata kata yang menjatuhkan maruah kaum Melayu. Tahu kah kau bahawa orang Siam akan bunuh kau kalau kau raba dan mainkan kepala dia. Orang Melayu akan sulakan kau jika mempersendakan dan menjatuhkan maruah mereka. Pernah dengar bahawa Residen British JWW Birch pun di lembing dan di keris dek Dato Maharaja Lela dan pahlawan pahlawannya di Pasir Salak, di tepi Sungai Perak di tahun 1875? Mengamok sehingga perkataan amok itu di guna pakai oleh orang putih British dan ada di Oxford Dictionary hingga hari ini.
Kau bebas keluarkan pendapat. Tapi mesti berhemah. Dan mesti keluarkan bukti dan justifikasi. Jika tidak, kau hanya gulungan Pembangkang yang selalu menuduh liar tanpa bukti dan justifikasi. Takda siapa yang peduli. Hanya maki hamun kau di hati.
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Why support Bersih 3.0? Probably you need to know more. Check out this video on what government really when they agree to have a clean and fair election.
We support Bersih 3.0 because we experienced first hand how corrupted Malaysia government is and we believe and already saw BN is trying to do non-sense including paying students to change voting area, make changes to rules to make sure they win in next general election.
You seems to have complete trust to government, are you work for government or link to BN party or paid to setup this blog? People are not stupid, so do you. There are over 31 countries worldwide supporting Bersih, Do you think people want to waste time, waste money, go out to street just because they mislead by a nobody call Ambiga or PKR or DAP?
If you really love this country, make sure you do what is right for this country, not for yourself or your party.
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My questions to you… why you need other country to support your cause?
do they have any interest in Malaysian politics?
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I believe the video above have been debunked by this article HERE.
Thank you.
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I don’t work in any government department or belong to any politic parties. I love and proud of our country and how much our government have help compared to other countries in the world. We should be grateful and thankful for what we have rather than follow blindly. Corruption depends on how you look at it and under which perception. Don’t tell me you do not practice or participate in corruption in your own home or in your family, office etc…Don’t tell me you never bribe any the traffic police officer, any officer in banks, office staffs for information in your life or your family have never don’t that before. Be it in cash or kind. Many Malaysian may not understand or have no clues on Our country History, Company Laws, International Commercial Law, Employment Acts to know the case involved are actual involved related to corruptions or someone who manipulated for political mileage at the expense of those scandals. If you seriously still down and break down the case studies you would see it in the different views than what the political parties and NGO want you to see and hear half true or total lies to become true (this is one of the psychology weapon used on naive and ignorance people on the theory of white lies which is commonly used by western politicians)…Be wise and wake up from your blindness… Let me enclose this link and you tell me what your opinion on this article and know what you are fighting for after reading this article or would you realize your mistake and wake up from being used as a pawn by the psychology weapon used by these NGO and political parties that you are fighting the cause or are you following blindly and confused??? http://takemon.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/bersih-anything-but-where-is-the-evidence/
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“Corruption depends on how you look at it and under which perception. Don’t tell me you do not practice or participate in corruption in your own home or in your family, office etc…Don’t tell me you never bribe any the traffic police officer, any officer in banks, office staffs for information in your life or your family have never don’t that before.”- I agree that it is incorrect for the kettel to call the pot black but should we allow it to persist? The ancient Chinese wealthy men have several wives/ concubines, hence by your logic you wouldn’t mind your father indulging in it.
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lynn…..somebody who has hidden agenda will alwyas try their best to be famous and popular eventhough they knew each act has their own consequences but who care ppls ,de rich and the famous n the power will always grab de attention and money (for most human) can manoeuver everything !
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Pakatan Rakyat also corrupted. Even since 1-2 years of being in power. Now, even Raja Petra Kamarudin of opposition blog Malaysia Today talks about PR Selangor corruption over sand mining etc. Anyway, nearer the rally date, Bersih committee talking about election issues only. Why you talking about corruption?
Where are your proofs about “paying students to change voting area” to win next election? You very like Opposition people make wild and no proof accusations.
Yes, many “people want to waste time, waste money, go out to street just because they mislead by a nobody call Ambiga or PKR or DAP”. Some like you want to politicise Ambiga’s so-called election issues. Many from Perak, Kedah, Kelantan etc got free trips to KL, free accomodation and food, plus pocket money some more. Read what Bernama interviewd such people lah. And not Bernama but another report says even MB Kelantan Nik Aziz said he gave RM20 each.
If you love this country, go by the laws, Mister. Respect the laws fully and we all can have a better life.
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Jeebus! I AM saving Malaysia!
Saving her from retards like you.
Thank you.
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Pandangan negatif rakyat terhadap Bersih 3.0
1. Peniaga Cina KL tolak BERSIH
2. Pakcik Peniaga anti BERSIH
3. Pandangan kawan Ambiga
4. Pemandu Teksi Marah
5. APA KATA MAKCIK JUAL AIR TEPI SOGO
6. Ilmuwan Islam bantah Bersih 3.0
7. Pemandu teksi mahu Himpunan BERSIH 3.0 dibatalkan
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Bersih is just another undemocratic way for wannabe politician, yearning to get to Putrajaya, outside the ballot box. This is not a peaceful way of grabbing power. Look at what the Arab Spring has brought down on them. Apart from power/wealth onto its new leaders, does the people feel happy? Democracy in Afganistan, Irak & Libya, brought upon them by the US or EU; Are its people( of the same faith) living in peace among their tribes? With Malaysia’s multi race/religion, do anybody think we can live happily if somebody grab power out of the ballot box?
I suggest the Bersih team, please find other things to champion the majority rakyat. i.e Abolish the AP system for cars, bring down the interest rates of housing loans, bring down the fees imposed by Puspakom / JPJ, reduce fees for 3rd Party Insurance, No abandon of housing project, etc….
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Those people from Bersih 3.0 are so sad. They really don’t have a clue what they fighting for that they had to parade senior citizens such as Samad Said and 66 year old untie (Read here: http://my.news.yahoo.com/auntie-bersih-seru-golongan-tua-sokong-bersih-3-070446223.html) so they can cry for support. They even created a pathetic video (Here: http://hantulautan.blogspot.com/2012/04/tears-of-shit-stirrers.html) to make Malaysians confuse and listen to all their lies. Shame on all of you who supported Bersih! Pls watch these videos (Here: http://apanama2020.blogspot.com/2012/04/why-not-bersih.html) and tell us Why Not Bersih?
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Bro,
If I were a millionaire I would buy all of the EC’s “The Facts Behind Allegations and Lies Against the EC” booklets, open a booth wherever the BERSIH legally or illegally decide to shit in and distribute the booklets for free.
No doubt there will be the gullible who will shit in together and I can guarantee you the hardcore would refuse the booklet even for free.
This DAP political “analyst” Ongkie in his Loyarburok articles never mentioned a single dubious voter on the rolls. All of a sudden came 400,000 which magically became 3,000,000!
Yet there will still be those taking his shit as gospel truth.
Best regards
Freddie
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Dont need to say more with or without bersih’s rally, i would like to address how come nearly 200,000 immigrants were granted tenporary ic’s in selangor? For 24 years my life, after PKR took over selangor im getting free water. Im nt conplaining. Well even our pass mentrri besar who stole 1 million is in jail for a year whereas a person shoplifting was sentenced to 2 years?
U can talk all you want, but thr demands n not met truly. They want fair polls cuz BN can send sudden pos votes frm no where to win? Dont tell me u guyz dont know??! Whycant they fight for te position in a clean manner and nt use dirty tactics?? Its quite clear even tun mahatirs knows that the gov is so corrupt cuz he was one. Even his daughter told at least the her dad wasnt dat corrupt compared to the leaders now. What else u want?? Lol!!! Plz dont be fooled by this article cuz it might juz be another gimmic of the gov.
JMD : Which documented proof are you relying to say 200,000 immigrants getting temporary ICs? What is the critical about this statement of yours anyway? That these so called immigrants will go and vote? Where? Did they register to vote before that? Who will they vote? Are they paid? How to be sure they vote as being told? Are you delusional?
My dear Jay, you seem not to now the election process to even talk about postal votes. The fact that you can say postal votes can be send out of nowhere by BN to ensure a BN win is one fine example on how your prejudice has thrown your intelligence out the door.
For a change, why don’t you comment in a clean manner devoid of any dirty tactics will you?
And free water? Come on, BN gave many free things other than water.
Thank you and have a good weekend.
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A common argument stating our electoral system is very fair – 5 states fell to Pakatan Rakyat. Yes, 5. Out of 13. You probably haven’t studied the numbers, have you? Let’s talk about the Parliamentary seats numbers. Almost 8 million votes were cast. Out of that number, BN won 50.27% or just about 4million votes. PR won 46.75% or 3.8million votes. But in terms of seats, BN won 140 against PR’s 82. What am I alluding to? Gerrymandering of course. If you don’t know what that is, please google. My source for the numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_general_election,_2008
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Aiyo Bro. Go back & read JMD’s writing again before you write something silly
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Is Bersih’s rally politically motivated? Yes, definitely. I do not support an ounce of what the movement wanted to since the Oppositions are clearly behind all this. Yes, cleaning up the electoral system is important, but such reforms take time and you expect all these to take place only 2 weeks after the bill was passed?
And how about the Opposition’s stand? They say they want freedom and real democracy, but from the recent outlooks of the previous PKR elections and even PAS’s election debacle, one might wonder, what the f’ing hell should i support a side which clearly has its own fradulant elections?
As much as i want the current government to change, doing stuffs like street rallies is not going to help anything. Garnering more support and outside sympathy? Even my foreign mates thought that this bunch of kids are just out for attention.
The hidden reason behind this so-called Bersih 3.0 is clearly because PR knew they are losing ground and support and they have to do something before the upcoming GE. If they know they have the support to take over the government, Ambga would probably have been tossed aside into obscurity.
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I like your last paragraph. Especially that part about Ambiga being tossed into obscurity.
But the problem may be one of synergy. Or complimentary existence. One of I scratch your back and you scratch my back (oops, careful now when Anwar is involved). PR losing support and want to exploit anything they can to gain some. Ambiga harbouring undeclared political ambitions and allowing PR coming in with their members and supporters.
That’s why the authorities should drag several of them into Court and chuck them into prison if found guilty. Don’t let them naik muka. So many charges could be preferred against them. Including
a) contempt of court re Court Order
b) sedition – incitement for people to go to Dataran Merdeka which has been declared out of bounds
c) marching to Dataran Merdeka, not assembling at an authorized premise re the Peaceful Assembly Act which came into force that day
d) allowing persons below 21 years old and children to march
e) allowing a foreigner to participate – that Zenophone whatever his name, an Australian Senator said to be a friend of Anwar Al Juburi
c) incitement to riot when Azmin Ali spoke to the crowd and said things that led to the breach of Dataran Merdeka soon after, and Anwar making hand signals to Azmin Ali.
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Foreign interests with solid financial standing are dictating the pakatan politicians. So if they were to march to Putrajaya, Malaysia will cease to be a sovereign nation, forever subjected to serve these foreign masters – recolonised once again. “Merdeka” will lose its meaning.
For Ambiga, Anwar and clan to think that they hold the reigns of power – is a pathetic mistake. They already signed an eternal contract to serve their masters. If the majority rakyat believe in their orchestrated lies and deceit, they will also be enslaved.
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I wish everything will be ok tomorrow. Noone will do anything stupid. Although I have an eerie feeling Anwar and Lim Guan Eng will provoke the crowd and all hell will break lose. 😦
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You were correct. Only the most blind will ever think the event will ever be peaceful. Thank you.
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Really simple actually. Why is Bersih marching? Yes we had the PSC. Yes they talk about a lot of wonderful plans to reform. What’s the problem, you ask? Whay’s Bersih upset, you ask? It’s because out of their 8 demands, ONLY ONE is being implemented before the next GE (indelible ink). Similarly, with the PSC recommendations, it is a vague consensus to do something about it. It is NOT time-bound, and those reforms will NOT happen before the 13th GE.
Secondly, the recent amendments to the Election Offences Act (one of the 8 that were bulldozed in a single day). Do you know what the changes state? You can google to find the full text, but the short of it is that it makes things a whole lot easier if you want to cheat.
A common argument stating our electoral system is very fair – 5 states fell to Pakatan Rakyat. Yes, 5. Out of 13. You probably haven’t studied the numbers, have you? Let’s talk about the Parliamentary seats numbers. Almost 8 million votes were cast. Out of that number, BN won 50.27% or just about 4million votes. PR won 46.75% or 3.8million votes. But in terms of seats, BN won 140 against PR’s 82. What am I alluding to? Gerrymandering of course. If you don’t know what that is, please google. My source for the numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_general_election,_2008
Clearly if our electoral system was truly fair, Pakatan would have won a lot more than 82 seats in the Parliament and maybe even more states. You see, it’s not just about phantom voters that Bersih is crying foul over. It’s about gerrymandering. It’s about how skewed the mainstream media, which is owned by BN, towards BN. Just look at the coverage of Bersih in the last few days. I counted today in the NST, 4 HUGE articles denouncing it. WHERE is the coverage on Bersih’s demands? WHERE is the coverage of their press releases? WHY do we read so much of that online but none published?
The worst being Utusan – with its headlines screaming that supporting Bersih means supporting LGBT. What kind of an obtuse connection is that?
At the Khairy – Ambiga debate, KJ admitted that both the opposition and BN should be given equal airtime in the mainstream media. This also means by extension that he is admitting that this is not happening right now.
Someone mentioned also that the Opposition is politicising this. Frankly, I find this to be rather stupid. Let me tell you why. Who does electoral fraud affect? The opposition. Who is championing free and fair elections? Bersih. OBVIOUSLY the opposition is going to get on board. And just because they support Bersih does not mean that Bersih supports them. Bersih is very clear in its communications – bring the Malaysian flag, DO NOT BRING party flags. Time and time again they remind that this is bipartisan. Of course there will be some who will blur the lines and go out with chants of Reformasi. But do not judge Bersih by these select few. Just like how a few madmen who bomb buses filled with children does not mean Islam is a terrorist religion.
To conclude, let me just say this. We will all believe what we want to. I could go on, but most of the people who read this will have already made up their minds since the second line. Here’s the cold, hard truth: Whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, the normal layperson attending tomorrow’s Bersih rally has one thing in mind – we want free and fair elections. And we are going out there on behalf of our country, for our families, for our children, for our future. You may think this is dumb, this is silly. But respect the fact that we dare to risk arrest and injury for a cause we believe in. A cause that doesn’t only impact us, but also you, the naysayers. I will be out there with my fellow Malaysians. And we will link hands and sing the Negaraku. We will pray for Malaysia, regardless of color, creed or religion. And I ask you, my friend, is there any ‘1malaysia’ truer than that?
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Oh and before I forget, today’s news – the EC chairman and his deputy admitted to being UMNO members. So I ask you – is that fair?
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One thing about you people is the double standards you people projects. So what if he is an Umno member. A dormant member too. What is important is professionalism right?
By the same breath, Lim Guan Eng needs to resign as CM of Penang because he is a member of DAP. Khalid Ibrahim have to resign as Menteri Besar since he is a PKR member. You cannot hold government posts if you are a member (high ranking some more) of a political party. They will be biased and won’t be fair to everyone in the state. Right?
And, to answer your question, yes it is fair.
Thank you.
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I do not see why Lim Guan Eng should resign as CM for being a DAP member. Similarly there is no call for Najib to do so for being a member of UMNO, nor for Obama to resign for being a Democrat.
My problem with the issue is not about government servants being members of a political party. It’s simply about independence.
Analogy: In corporate governance. independence is key. Which is why according to many corporate governance codes globally, and even the Malaysian one, a Chairman of a company should be an independent – i.e. no shareholdings and no dealings with the company. Now, if a person has a ‘dormant’ interest in the company, i.e. just a few shares, not very many, does it make a difference? Yes! Because no matter how small, a link is a link.
In the context of our ELection Commission, how can anyone believe that they are independent if the top 2 guys are members of UMNO, regardless of dormancy. Go ahead and name me any other democracy who has that practice. And rest assured, even if the top 2 were PAS/DAP/PKR members, I would feel the same about independence, or rather the lack thereof.
Thank you
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Now you are really scrapping the barrell.
Do you know why you think this way? About independence and what not? Because you are speculating. You are speculating into the mirror.
Here’s a quote :
“One of the peculiarities of human beings that I have found in my experience is that they often expect other people to behave in the way they themselves would in a particular situation…Likewise, people who are normally kind and generous also expect other people to be the same and are often disappointed.
So when I see people speculating about how ‘the other side’ will behave, to me it suggests that they expect that because that’s how they themselves would behave… Now why would you think that? Unless this is what you would do if you took over the state after being in opposition, no?”
Kenneth, you think they won’t be independent because you THINK IN YOUR MIND that they are not independent when in fact, they are doing their jobs based on standard of procedures, code of conduct, circulars etc which devoid of any politics.
They are government servants, first and foremost. IF you want to go for party lines, than thousands of civil servants have to quit their jobs.
Latheefa Koya has to resign from her post in PJ local council because she is a PKR information officer.
If you think Latheefa Koya, Lim Guan Eng, or Najib or Khalid Ibrahim can be independent in doing their governmental duties, then so can the EC Chairman do his job.
Same difference. Thank you and have a good day.
By the way, do you know who was it that I quoted? It was Marina Mahathir that said that.
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aiseh kenneth, have you heard sinar harian report saying one restaurant operator in kelantan has the same name as the ec deputy chairman and he is the one that’s referred to as an umno member? that man showed people his mykard and said he is the umno member people talk about.
aiseh man, us presidents also appoint their own men, including as supreme court judges when got vacancy, and appoint their own men as federal reserve bank chairman, etc. wai u no say dat fair or not? dey very liberal, very democratic, you know.
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we should have public hearings before confirming thier appointment. Democracy!!!
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David,
I thought the comment section said astound us with your intelligence?
If that is your opinion then it is as good as your zits on your ass.
They are not active members of Umno you numbnut! They are not even members from the latest news we heard.
If public hearing is the way to go then you should start with local council elections in Penang and Selangor which is by the way, Pakatan’s 2008 pre election promise. Until now, habuk pun tarak!
Democracy? Wah la wei David! Even Pakatan do not practice democracy laaaaah! What you talking about?! Y U SO STUPID?
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No understando wat u talk lorr. U talk Amerika, Antarctica or where ha? Where got public hearings American style in Malaysia, mah? U know the difference between the Republican system and the Parliamentary system of democracy or not? Read more la, Mister, don konfius the two or wanna both practised in the same country hor.
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pasal ini gua kena guna bahasa la. Gua pun isu olang pandai buat definasi. Democraycy ala America, Ala Britain, ala Perancis,………..For those who don’t practice democracy we should not elect them into office. That is what we the rakyat need to do. Unjust person, unjust law have no place in any democratic country. Don’t just sit around for the next elction to get them out/ changed instead expose the injustice, the corruptness.
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aiseh David, apa bahasa lu cakap “Gua pun isu olang pandai buat definasi”? Apa makna lorr. Wat you meaning one saying “For those who don’t practice democracy we should not elect them into office”. Say what you mean democracy lah. Show us that you understand what democracy is, mah. Explain what injustice, what unjust law, how it’s unjust, meh. You a lawyer, moh? I don’t think so, moo. But explain lah, let’s see whether you know wat you talkin’ about.
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Dear Kenneth,
Firstly, you do not know when will GE13 will take place and also, indelible ink is not the only thing the PSC is doing. They are continuously doing all recommendations. This is just a pitiful excuse to justify BERSIH and worse, you are not using facts and the real story. Who said there are not doing something about postal votes, cleaning electoral roll etc?
Secondly, you are not giving full story about what you are trying to say about the new amendmends. But maybe THIS can help. Look at the youtube video and read the article rebutting it as well.
Thirdly, yes let’s look at the numbers. Boy, Pakatan fellas love to give uncooked analysis and raw judgment without looking properly at the numbers. Nearly 8 million votes were tallied in 2008. BN got 4,082,411 (50.27%) while Pakatan received 3,796,464 (46.75%). That was a difference about 285,947. Your supposition is that this is a fraud because how could BN won 58 more seats than Pakatan? (140-82). Note that 50.27% + 46.75% = 97.02%, The difference of 2.98% (236,739) is probably from spoiled votes (undi rosak).
BN won more seats than Pakatan eventhough Pakatan received 522,686 (236,739 + 285,947) votes less than BN. There are dozens of constituencies where BN won by slim margins. Average out the 500k + votes to 58 parliamentaries = 9,000 in average. Therefore, it is not impossible for BN to win by 58 seats.
Gerrymandering as one of your eanswer is certainly do not substantiate your fallacies. Or else, Kelantan would’ve been in BN hands for decades.
You see Kenneth, you chose to believe the lies and not ashamed propagate it to the readers here because you are already prejudiced with misplaced hatred towards the government. It is not about free and fair elections at all. BN and PR won their respective seats solely through voter’s vote.
But obviously Pakatan cannot accept this because in their minds (yours included), Pakatan is beloved by ALL voters.
If there is no electoral fraud, it doesn’t affect the opposition or BN at all. It depends on how Pakatan portrays itself. Judging by recent events, I don’t think it has endeared itself to the public. Don’t be surprised if BN wins bigger majority next time. And let me tell you this Kenneth, Pakatan might lose more not because there is any electoral fraud (cause there isn’t any), but because you people are barbaric, law breaking, insidious lot. And the people can see this.
Bersih is never bipartisan. Didn’t you hear the chants to crush Umno, BN etc? Party flags were everywhere. PAS, DAP, PKR etc.
What on earth are you talking about Kenneth? Like I said in this article, why are you supporting Bersih when it doesn’t fight for anything except for the political mileage of Pakatan?
Do you know that back in 2008, Ambiga herself was busy brown-nosing our Prime Minister at that time? Pak Lah was invited by Ambiga for Bar Council dinner event. Remember? Where Zaid Ibrahim compensated Tun Salleh Abas millions of ringgit for being sacked. I guess at that time, Ambiga thinks the elections were free and fair that is why she couldn’t stop gushing over Pak Lah. What a hypocrite.
Thank you.
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I’m sorry I do not see how my analysis is flawed. First of all, there is no reason to consider the spoiled votes (3%) as guaranteed BN votes. So your supposition of BN winning 500k votes more than Pakatan is unjustified.
Another way of looking at these numbers – 8 million votes and 222 parliamentary seats averages out to about 36k votes per seat. The difference between Pakatan and BN’s votes (285k) would only amount to about 8 seats, which equates more or less to the 4% difference in the votes garnered.
Secondly, I have no problem with BN winning by small margins. That is not the point. The point of gerrymandering, is splitting your strongholds into more constituencies so that you win more. Simple example is you win 3 constituencies of 10k voters, but where you’re weak (in BN’s case the urban areas), you lump together 30k into one constituency and you lose one seat. See the difference? Kelantan is a different case because most of the people there whether urban or rural have come to love Tok Guru, as they call him.
Another issue I have is with the one-sided reporting conducted by our BN-owned media. You can fault me all you like about this but seriously, take a good hard long look at the NST and Utusan papers. Can you really consider that to be the truth? Utusan, by the way, is by far the most racist paper I have ever seen.
I was at the Bersh rally. And you’re right, there were anti-BN chants. But where I was, these chants were quelled almost immediately by more civic minded and level headed people who knew better. The sentiments were there, but can you blame them? You know how you view Bersih to be nonpartisan? That’s exactly how I view the EC to be nonpartisan.
And forget for a minute about Ambiga and Anwar. Forget about the leaders who supposedly hijacked the event. I was there with thousands upon thousands of others and believe me when I say, everywhere I looked, I saw normal, average workaday people from all walks of life, coming out for a good cause. I will not argue – there were hooligans, there were people who really hate the BN govt. And there were those who were responsible for the violence (which I utterly condemn btw). But all of that does not detract from the fact that the vast majority of the crowd I saw and came into contact with were normal, peaceful people who weren’t out there to create a ruckus. The mood was even festive. And those were the people who came out, sat down and went home, no trouble whatsoever. And that, my friend, that was Bersih. Not Anwar, not Ambiga, not Azmin Ali and all the other personalities.
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Dear Kenneth,
For one spoiled vote, means a vote less for Pakatan and BN. In the scheme of things, one spoiled vote means, Pakatan lost one vote to challenge BN while BN gain one vote less to retain power. Who loses more when there is a spoiled vote? Logically, back in 2008, it would be Pakatan. So, BN has 500K more votes than Pakatan is apt in this context. Even if all these spoiled votes were supporting Pakatan, BN still won by 200K votes (Hence the 50.25% votes tallied by BN).
Kenneth, if BN is truly involve in electoral fraud, Kelantan would’ve fallen anyway regardless whether all Kelantanese love Tok Guru. I do not understand your position. On one hand you vehemently say that BN commits electoral fraud in its general elections but on the other hand, we clearly see that BN have trouble even winning more than 10 seats in Kelantan.
Are you saying, there are no electoral fraud, gerrymandering, phantom voters in Kelantan at all? See the problem with all your comments so far? It hinges on this – if it is true BN is manipulating elections, how come Pakatan could win easily in states elections, in by-elections, and getting nearly half of the votes tallied? Shouldn’t BN won 70%, 80% or even 99% of the votes should they are committing fraud?
BN purposely lose their states and its two third majority?
Syed Akbar Ali put it succinctly in his blog –
The Bersih monkeys need to explain something : if the elections are not fair, then how do you explain that PAS has ruled Kelantan for 20 years?
And why did Perak have to go through so much drama to change the Gomen from the Pakatan to the BN? Why not just empty a few gunny sacks of phantom votes and kill the Pakatan’s chances once and for all?
How did the Lembu Condo woman lose to Liwat’s daughter? Why not just empty a few more gunny sacks of phantom votes and kill Liwat’s daughter’s political career as well? Apa dah? Ini macam kah want to rig the elections?
What kind of vote rigging is this?
You let PAS rule Kelantan for 20 years. I mean couldnt UMNO have rigged the elections in Kelantan somewhere along those 20 long years? You mean the dictator Mahathir could not have fixed the elections in Kelantan somewhere along those 20 years? How come? Any rational explanations?
In 2008, the conspirators let the Pakatan break the 2/3 majority. They let Pakatan win in five States. And they let Pakatan get almost 50% of the popular vote. What kind of vote rigging is this?
One dunggu said, if UMNO did not rig the elections in 2008, they would have lost.
I say kawan, so you say UMNO did stuff the votes in the ballot boxes. OK fine. But now you are saying UMNO did not know how many extra votes to stuff in the ballot boxes?
They stuffed too little of “extra” votes? Ya lah, otherwise how did Pakatan break the 2/3 majority? Because UMNO stuffed too few phantom votes in over 80 Parliamentary seats. Thats what you are saying. How dunggu can you get?
How do you explain the fact that the Pakatan has failed to show even one Ballot Box anywhere in Malaysia were the number of votes counted was more than the number of people who came to vote? Until today they have not been able to show any such thing, including the so called postal votes. How come? Can anyone of you explain? We are waiting for your genius explanation.
And get this, this so called ‘gerrymandering’ excuse of yours apparently favours Lim Guan Eng, Khalid Ibrahim, Khalid Samad etc. Do you think their parliamentary seat had less than 10K? If it is true government is guilty of gerrymandering, they could’ve carved out a few seats from those seats belonged to the opposition! They would’ve carved out Kepong to take it away from Tan Seng Giaw long time ago.
By the way, all your concessions about how Bersih supposedly to be peaceful and your admission about the trouble some of the hooligans made ring hollow because Bersih shouldn’t have happened in the first place if AMBIGA had civilised discussions with the EC and made effort to straighten things out in meetings! Not in Dataran Merdeka.
But of course your thick headedness and the pathetic excuse of Ambiga (not enough time to change venue) is a measure of how hypocritical you guys are.
Whatever good you think Bersih champions is being eclipsed by the terror unleashed by the opposition leaders and the hooligans. If the bad outweighs the good, then just stop it and venture into another avenues. Are you barbarians? Why can’t you obey the laws? The reason why the authorities asked your dear Ambiga to hold the rally in stadiums is precisely because it is easier to handle a crowd in a stadium with minimum destruction to public properties. Didn’t you see how Anwar Ibrahim, acting like Hitler, inciting the crowd to break the barricades? And did you see a glimpse his autocratic rule when he booted out people who criticised him during press conferences?
To further show that you are hypocritical is the fact that you people extol the virtues of Constitution but deriled the EC bosses because they are allegedly members of Umno.
Do you know that freedom of association is enshrined in the Constitution? Not just freedom of assembly. Did anyone punished you and throw you to jail because they become PAS members or PKR members? Anyway this was his latest reply. Of course, Pakatan is not innocent of politics of slander as well.
Please Kenneth, just stop this nonsense. No amount of arguments can actually sustain any of your actions.
The fact that another commentator (named Mud) posting an exact comment right before this one shows that you guys are just mere cybertroopers acting on instructions. Have a good day.
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I have no connection with Mud and it looks like it was a direct copy and paste from one of my comments.
It’s funny how both sides hurl accusations of cybertroopers really 🙂
As for holding Bersih in a stadium. Do you not see that this is exactly what they did last year, and with Dataran this year? Somebody says ok go hold your rally (Hishamuddin). And then DBKL turns around and says nope no permit. That’s what Stadium Merdeka did last year as well. Do you think that the Govt would have allowed this to continue? Do you think Stadium Merdeka would have thrown open their gates to Bersih?
Would the EC have listened? Of course not, because they are just like you hypocrites that will say everything’s been discussed at the PSC. Reforms are on the way. You should know as well as I do that in this country, everyone talks big, but execution is POOR. Hence PKFZ. Hence NFC. Hence MACC’s apparent inability to catch and charge someone significant. Hence our ever-sliding education system.
Bersih did not happen because these reforms have not taken place. Bersih happened because people are sick of the lies and the farce that the Govt has surrounded us in. I opened Berita Harian’s Monday paper today. I counted 6 articles on the damage and chaos caused by the “perusuh”. Was there a single mention of the 99,000 other people who were peaceful? Was there a mention of the more levelheaded protestors who held others back from throwing things at the police? No! Even the BBC coverage on Astro was censored! What did they cut out? Footage of protestors interviewed who said “I’m only here because I want clean and fair elections”. Just like how the Economist article was blacked out last year by our Home Ministry. Tell me Jebat, IS THIS FAIR? I know ,I know, this isn’t linked to electoral fraud, but look at the big picture. If the Govt is so intent on throwing sand into the eyes of the Rakyat, how can we trust them?
So yes, Bersih is a message that we are sick of this. You talk about it being ok for the EC chairman to be a (former) member of UMNO. I agree with you that yes, freedom of association is a right guaranteed under the Constitution. But this man, being an EC Chairman, should not and cannot have any ties to either political party. How can you claim independence, regardless of whether it’s not disallowed by the law or not. Another example: I have the freedom to buy goods from whoever I want, correct? Now, if I was a company director, do I still have that right? Can I order purchases to be made from my spouse’s company? Yes, but only if I can prove an arms-length transaction. Why? Simply because the interest of the company now falls on my shoulders. it is no longer about my personal choice.
The same rules apply to the EC. Being a member of UMNO, whether active or inactive, does not imply independence. How can I trust him to be impartial? The onus is upon him to prove he is impartial. Has he done that? Well, at least 100,000 Malaysians do not think so.
Contrary to what you believe, I do not think of Pakatan as a pot of gold and angel dust. Will there be corruption under a Pakatan govt? Of course. Human nature is inevitable. When I vote for Pakatan, I vote for 2 main things: 1) A proper two-party system that does not allow any one party to bulldoze anything (Yes in case you’re wondering I do not support a 2/3rds Pakatan govt any more than a BN one). and 2) I’ve seen with my own eyes many Pakatan ADUNs and MPs who actually give a damn about serving the rakyat and making a difference. You may roll your eyes, but so many of them have given up their own careers to stand on a ticket that before 2008, has never been fruitful.
I compare that against the fat cats in the Govt right now. The NFC issue? God that stinks and please don’t tell me you’re okay with it. Year after year the AG’s report reports on millions upon millions of taxpayers money squandered. RM30,000 cameras? RM2,000 pens? So why should I still support a corrupt govt? Of course I admit there’s a chance that a Pakatan govt may be no different. But they are more or less untried and untested. I’d rather give them that chance as opposed to voting for the devil I know.
Well anyhow it seems that you and I will never see eye to eye on this. Let me just state that I respect your views. You’re clearly a well-read and intellgent fellow. I suppose in any area there will be supporters and detractors. Let’s leave it at that. Have a nice day and thank you.
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The estimates of Bersih 3 rally attendees used by the organizers and supporters are atrocious and flabbergasting. 100,000, 250,000, even 300,000. Ridiculous. Nonsense.
How can they be accurate when Malaysiakini “Live Report” (that many Bersih supporters must have relied on for information) stated the car park at Pasar Seni could fill 10,000 people? I visited the place twice, once with another person who also said it’s ridiculous to say that 10,000 people could squeeze in there. It’s total and absolute over-blowing of figures of support and so-called popularity. It’s nasty propaganda that hoodwinks people not familiar with KL, especially Pasar Seni. The high-flutin’ stories of these people must be debunked every time they are put out.
The Police Spokesman announced a figure of 25,000 people, admitting it was higher than Bersih 2 attendance. They had many static cameras placed on buildings including the Police Headquarters at Bukit Aman, cameras that are fitted with powerful zoom lenses. Then they have movie and moving cameras on their helicopters, at least two of which were hovering above the areas in question since the morning of the event. They could see nooks and corners that no others on the ground, even on buildings, could.
And the British BBC and Reuters news reports also used the figures 25,000. And Reuters had an expatriate (not a local reporter) doing the reporting and an expatriate staff did the editing. These are responsible people well experienced in estimating crowds like the Cairo, Tripoli etc demos that those news agencies reported on.
100,000 at Bersih 3 rally my foot!
JMD : Anwar Ibrahim even said it was 300,000! About as big as 3 Bukit Jalil Stadiums! 🙂
Thank you for the comment Aku.
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It must be pointed out for the record, that the considerations by the authorities for Bersih 2 were different from Bersih 3. For Bersih 2, the Peaceful Assembly Act was not talked about yet, let alone drafted for Parliamentary approval. So, the authorities then were acting on the basis of the laws existing at that time. Including the fact that Bersih was not even a registered body. And to hold a rally required a permit.
Permit was given only when the organizers submitted an application. After the audience with the YDP Agong. The authorities had said that, as the mood of the public has somewhat been whipped to a slight frenzy over the permit, other bodies like UMNO Youth and PERKASA also wanting to hold rallies on the same day, the issue of security was very much at play. And the authorities decided that even Merdeka Stadium was not suitable to hold the rally at that time. They said clearly that the Shah Alam or Bukit Jalil Stadium were OK for the rally. But the organizers were hard headed. And the rest was history.
For Bersih 3, the Peaceful Assembly Act was already approved by Parliament, though it came into force (after being duly gazetted for the required period) only on the day of the rally. But the authorities, including the Minister of Home Affairs had said that rallying was no problem, only the venue was. Who the hell said Hishamuddin said go ahead and rally in Dataran Merdeka? Even Nazri, Minister in PM’s Dept had said they can rally but need to ask permission from DBKL.
Again, for the record, it must be noted that the DBKL was the authority on the use of Dataran Merdeka. They have explained that it was for national events. The students and their non-student promoters’ attempt to Occupy Dataran led to the late night fracas with black dressed men where one 40 year-old bloke was injured below the eye and it became a security issue. The Police then obtained a Court Order declaring Dataran Merdeka off limits.
Random talk must be stopped. Or hit back like is being done now.
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I find this amusing, Aku 🙂 You say the claims of 100,000 and so on are atrocious and flabbergasting. And yet your point of reference is that you and your friend do not think the car park of Pasar Seni can hold 10k. Were you there at Bersih? No? Let me enlighten you then. The Pasar Seni carpark may not be able to hold 10,000. But the carpark, and the roads around it, and the open space on the other side where the LRT station is – that can hold 10,000. Not to mention the hundreds that were streaming in from KL Sentral every 15 minutes. I know. I was one of those who walked in from KL Sentral.
The Police announced 25,000. Weren’t they also the ones that claimed only 6,000 were at Bersih 2? And flabbergasting-ly enough, they managed to arrest a quarter of that 6,000! Have you ever known the Police to be that efficient?
Tell me the truth Aku. Have you even seen any of the photos of the Bersih 3.0 rally, aside from the ones published in the mainstream media? Because the truth might shock you. At 1.30 pm, Jalan Tun Perak, from the Masjid Jamel LRT station all the way up to Maybank, was jammed full of people standing, not sitting. 2 streets away, outside the Bar Council, that street was chock full of people up to the HS Lee intersection. The roads in between these two locations were filled with at any one time a few hundred people resting in the shade away from the crush of bodies. Oh and I forget to mention – this was before the Petaling Street crowd marched in. And their numbers alone filled Jalan Tan Siew Sin from the HSBC building right down to Leboh Pudu.
And that was just this side of the river. On the other side there was also a huge crowd. That was where the PKR leaders were when the barriers were breached.
I met up with 15 friends. We all got in via the LRT and KTM. Every single train that each of us were on were chock full of people going to Bersih.
The Reuters and BBC did say 25,000. But that was only what they saw. They did not manage to get from one side of the river to the other, just like we could not. And one BBC report I read used the words “at least 25,000, with local news reporiting up to 80,000”.
You say police and media helicopters were circling. Does it not strike you to wonder why to this date they have not published any of those aerial photos/videos?
In conclusion, I don’t know how many there were at Bersih. I don’t know if it was 25,000 or 100,000 or 250,000. I do not have a degree in crowd size estimation, and neither do you or the police spokesperson. I can tell you I know what 2,000 people looks like (from experience at events). And the crowd in front of the Bar Council, which was many times smaller than the one at Tun Perak, was at least double that. So maybe 100,000 isn’t all that preposterous after all. Ask me. I’ll show you some photos to prove it. I’d be happy to.
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Kenneth,
One step beyond flabbergasting, it’s now dumbfounding lah, kawan. How to argue with you people? Keep changing the goal post, changing the boundaries, and now you have changed the boundaries of Pasar Seni, too. Aiyya, places like “the other side where the LRT station is” are not “the parking area of Pasar Seni” that M’kini talked about, lah. If you include those places as Pasar Seni, holding only 10,000, then the total number of attendees may even be smaller, haha.
And you worry the ratio of Bersih 2 participants to number of arrests and Police efficiency connected therewith? They can even arrest half, don’t you think?
Allo, brada, talking “Tell me the truth Aku” doesn’t sound mature, does it? But I’ll humour you lah. No wally, I’ve seen those photos. The issue here is your perception being in the crowd and others’ perception (including mine) based on those photos and estimates of people in the know and with the experience. Of course, you were totally immersed in the event and to you it was a “sea of people”. To others they may be a sea of people as well yet neither you nor outsiders can estimate accurately or even objectively. You wanna big numbers and I wanna small numbers, Ambiga wanna 250,000, Anwar wanna 300,000 hahaha. But surely the BBC and Reuters people have better knowledge and experience at estimating than you or I, innit? Plus, you cannot claim to have a bird’s eye view of the rally size, can you?
And the BBC report you read used the words “at least 25,000, with local news reporting up to 80,000″. I say, the operative words were “local news reporting up to 80,000″. Even if you take a middle figure, it’d be what, 40,000 – pardon my Maths at night time – that’s why they didn’t let me become an astronaut! Or an Anwarul!
That the “police have not published any of those aerial photos/videos” is proof of 100,000 participants? I don’t see the logic there.
Yes, we both don’t have degrees in crowd size estimation, but I’d go by those with the “means to estimate well” (with helicopters etc), and those with the experience in estimating crowds like in the Arab Spring rallies that those British news agencies covered. Note that Reuters have been a news agency since before World War II, were around in and during the war, estimating troop strengths at Normandy etc. I know, I know, they are all dead and bunkum but it’s the tradition of estimates training their correspondents must have got that neither you nor I have.
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You do not trust the EC to make any reforms but you demand them to reform. Hence, the Bersih. But I doubt even if Pakatan comes to power there will be any electoral reforms because following your own logic, we ‘should know as well as I do that in this country, everyone talks big, but execution is POOR’.
And judging from Pakatan’s own flailing performance in their states, I fear their reforms will be worse than before.
BUt I must thank you for doing your job in the last general elections. Your vote has caused BN to lose its 2/3rd majority. Yes, a government which is too strong, will be more corrupt than ever (eg., Pak Lah’s 90% sweep in 2004 GE). And since Pakatan leaders are confident that the rakyat are behind them they will defeat BN in the next general elections (despite the fact that they accuse the electoral roll will favour BN), I do not hope that you will vote for BN next time.
Like you yourself said, we do not want us to have a strong Pakatan government that can bulldoze whatever in Parliament right? 🙂
In the end, judging from this latest and incessant comment of yours, it is not about clean electoral roll after all. It is about toppling the BN government and replacing it with Pakatan. Very contrary to your initial comments where you extolled the virtues of ‘Bersih is bipartisan’, ‘it is not anti-government’, ‘it is not about Pakatan’, ‘multiracial non political movement’ etc. Too bad your comments now are biased towards Pakatan.
Hypocrisy is alive. Even within you. Why don’t all of you call a spade a spade? Why can’t Ambiga just exclaim “I lead this BERSIH movement as a camouflage for Anwar Ibrahim and gang to topple the BN government and to trick all the fence-sitters with all these unfair accusations of dirty elections and hope they will join us all Pakatan lovers to demonstrate and create havoc because this is the only way, however undemocratic, to topple a government. This is the age of anarchy where laws are meant to be broken”.
Why can’t she just say that? But no. You guys just hide behind all these nice slogans, misleading facts, and breaking the laws and then cry foul when the law is catching up with you.
Cowards will never play fair.
Have a good day to you too Kenneth! Have a good weekend!
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Yes as much as I want Pakatan to win the next GE, I do not want a 2/3rd majority for any side (Pakatan or BN). Like I’ve said before, I do not vote for Pakatan because they’re angel fluff. I vote for them because I trust them more than I do BN and because I’m voting for a two-party system.
Haha and I never said I am unbiased. Are any of us? You denounce Bersih for being a stooge for Pakatan. And you denounce the people who go for Bersih as opposition supporters. You need to differentiate between the two. Yes, I may be a supporter of the opposition. But that does not mean I go for Bersih as a supporter of the opposition (or opponent of the ruling party).
It’s very clear to me. If I had gone for Bersih simply because I support the opposition, I would have joined in the Reformasi chants. I would have cried “Hancur BN”. But I did not. All my friends did not. And the vast majority of Bersih participants did not.
You see, if I was confident that we have a clean and fair electoral process, I would be fine if Pakatan lost at the GE. Fair and square as they say. The problem is, I see an overwhelming amount of evidence that shows how unfair and impartial it is. For example, in the 2011 Sarawak state elections – why did the EC refuse a recount at Senadin despite the BN candidate winning only by 58 votes? And once again, why did BN win 77% of the seats with only 55% of the votes?
I will state again. I support the opposition. And I do not think we have a clean and fair electoral process. I went to Bersih because of the latter.
As for you, you claim Ambiga is a stooge for Anwar. Let me ask you then – where is your evidence? You are pointing and flailing, just like what you are accusing me of doing at the EC 😉 And in any case, I can tell you one thing. Even if Ambiga and the BErsih committee are stooges for Anwar, that does not ring true with the thousands of others who attended.
Have a great weekend 🙂
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The communist terrorists and Al Qaeda also “dare to risk arrest and injury for a cause we (they) believe in”. And Obama dared to face grave consequences by authorizing a raid into Pakistan to arrest Ben Laden but the raiders had to shoot him dead.
The time will come when we will have a no-nonsense leader in this country, too. Like the British PM David Cameron who said “Multi-culturalism is dead” and soon after that the British Police went after the gangsters and Immigration law breakers in British Chinatowns and Al Qaeda elements elsewhere. He was echoed by the German Chancellor Angela Merkel and two other EU leaders.
1Malaysia it is, but based on respect for the laws, old and new, Peaceful Assembly Act included. Dataran Merdeka was declared off limits even by a Court Order and telling people to go there was like playing with fire. Doing that was not 1Malaysia at all.
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“the Election Offences Act .. that it makes things a whole lot easier if you want to cheat.”
You dispute the wisdom of the Act, the onus is on you to explain and prove your allegation.
Otherwise it’s all the standard cock and bull, wild, unproven and unjustified Opposition accusation.
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you know the evidence that Bersih 3.0 is nothing more than a vehicle for the Opposition to oust the current government is pasted all over their official website. You can see people posting stuff BN logo and asking: what do you see when you see this? and the likes. People are TRAINED to hate the BN logo upon sight. It’s like a brainwashing session.
And even more blatant, there’s a posting that states that mission for PRU13 is to defeat BN. And the admin of the page didn’t do squat to remove it. you guys should check it out: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bersih-30-Official-/171353042943866
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If we think rationally about the Bersih 3.0 rally, it is a good opprtunity for street vendors to make a few extra bucks come Rally day. Think about it. The humidity could be high, people are thirsty, they need to drink water, so selling mineral water and other juices could fetch a few extra bucks. Selling caps could also be profitable too. It’s hot out there man ! If it rains, sell umbrellas. And raincoats. So my advice is, don’t worry. It is a good day to earn some pocket money. And why not ? What do you think Jebat ?
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Pingback: Bersih 3.0 — updates on open thread « Helen Ang
BERSIH malukan negara! Ambiga + Anwar bersekongkol nak malukan Malaysia!
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Dear Jebat,
It shows how ‘objective’ you are when you delete my comments. My comments that supported Bersih with well-researched and undeniable facts and numbers, not something about Rosmah. Comments that showed even though PR won 46% of the total votes in 2008, they only got 82 seats in the Parliament as opposed to BN’s 140. Comments that spoke about unfairness in the electoral process is not just about the electoral roll, or who wins 5 states, but also about gerrymandering.
It seems that you are just like our mainstream media. Selective reporting. And since you will probably not publish this comment either, then this is for you. Shame on you. You call others irresponsible, but you yourself are irresponsible. You mislead people. And I also feel sorry for you. Because someone like you will never feel the sense of true 1Malaysia down on the streets with thousands of other Malaysians from differing states, races, backgrounds and religions championing a good cause. Because you can only sneer from your high horse, you have already missed out on the sense of camarederie.
I met an elderly lady from Kedah at Bersih yesterday and she told me this “Kita satu kampung kosong, semua datang Bersih”. And she was a grandmother there with her husband and family. I, and many others, offered water and salt to the patrolling policemen who were unfortunate enough to get caught in the tear gas.
Yes, I admit there were idiots and fools who tried to get through the barricades, which prompted the FRU response with water cannons and gas, which in turn caused some young hotbloods to react in anger at being gassed. Hence the regrettable footage of the cop car crashing. But aside from the fact this was only a very small proportion of the crowd (by that time almost everyone had already left), when was the last time you sang the national anthem with 50,000 other Malaysians from all walks of life? These people were out there not to create trouble, but to express that they were standing up for a good cause. Forget PKR, PAS and DAP. No matter what you can say about them hijacking Bersih or being behind it, people did not go out yesterday for the parties. Nobody chanted PKR, PAS or DAP. Nobody chanted ABU. Everybody chanted Bersih and Hidup Rakyat. Go figure.
You are a Malaysian. And you are entitled to your own opinions and views. But at the same time, be open to other views, not delete them. That reminds me of the Iraqi government during the US invasion. The US troops were pushing through with ease and closing on Baghdad, but within Baghdad the TV and print media were still declaring enormous victories by the Iraqi army.
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I sang the national anthem many times with many more people than 50,000. Especially during national football games and Hari Merdeka.
You must be blind as a bat when you say people did not chanted anti-government slogans. Didn’t you see the lastest video by future PM named Anwar instigating the crowd to break the barricades and go wild? Then he left immediately?
Yes Kenneth, your future PM is a trouble maker, a rabble rouser, an agent provocateur and a coward. You want that for your future?
I am a Malaysian. I have eyes and brains too. Maybe you should get both?
Thank you.
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Kenneth,
I have seen enough of abject aberration shown by your kind that I must come out from my self-imposed hibernation.
You gleefully talk about singing the national anthem on the streets while breaking the law. Do you know that by the Peaceful Assembly Act, people can gather but not march? Were you not breaking the law when marching to Dataran Merdeka? What convoluted logic is that trying to portray nationalistic feeling when in fact you fellows were degrading Negaraku. Utter shame on you. Your statement about fools and idiots should include those trying to make a mockery of the national anthem.
It’s naivety to believe the Makciks and Pakciks, even many of the youngsters from the kampung, coming purely to support Bersih. Have you not read the Bernama reports of interviews with those who admitted they came for the chance to visit KL with free transport, accomodation, food and pocket money? And another news report quoting Nik Aziz giving RM20 each to those from Kota Bahru, claiming to be his own money. Nik Aziz has of course become wiser after saying years ago that he did not know that taking RM500,000 Haji package for him, his family and a personal assistant was corruption.
What “good cause” are you talking about, man? Barely a week before the event, Bersih people were still talking about the 8 points of Bersih 2. Almost all had been addressed and practically at the last moment the Steering C’ttee talked about the “3 points”. Rather convenient to come out with whatever you people found out at the last minute, wasn’t it?
I support each and every word JMD has said in countering your point about the EC top men being UMNO members – inactive, as they themselves have declared. It’s simply skewed thinking to suggest that such people will be biased when they are governed by laws, rules and regulations of the Election Commission. The degree of loose talk, wild claims and accusations of you people borders on insanity. The 42,000 or so “dubious voters” (some blokes even mentioned a figure of hundreds of thousands) have been reduced to about 40,000 as proofs of deaths etc were obtained. And the EC Chairman has explained time and again that until and unless they have proofs, they cannot simply remove such names from the Electoral Roll as it’d expose them to court summons and even a declaration of the election being invalid. That fact shows they are bias? What a dee dum dooo!
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I have been away from the country for almost 7.5 yrs. It is my opinion that the support for Bersih is that the people wants a change in the government, it has become ineffective with too many old timers reaping riches for themselves and looking out for one another. I would join the rally just to show support and send a message to achieve two things – total freedom of media, investigate and report without fear or favor, and abolishing ISA. So, jebatmustdie, see Bersih 3 as an outlet for the people to express their inner feelings.
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If you have been in touch with the correct information about the country, you would not have thought that “the people wants a change in the government” per se. True, corruption occurs but the Pakatan Rakyat has also been corrupt. In fact, whatever weaknesses BN has, PR also has. The only difference is that BN has been ruling for 54 years. PR has shown their shit after only a few years. Woe betide if longer.
See, you already have been out of step with the correct news. Bersih claims they are not political. So why would you want to join the rally on “abolishing ISA” etc. And ISA has been repealed.
Get on the Malaysian Embassy list of press releases for you to keep abreast with current developments in Malaysia.
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I was aghast at the fury and violence perpetrated by the Bersih guys. I saw the commotion right before they broke the barricade and it wasn’t pretty. Groups of people were already sitting on the road until a horde of other ruffians came from behind and started jeering and rammed through the police grid. If this were occupy wall street, police would have shot them all with rubber bullets. I weep for Malaysia and all its hooliganism that Bersih brought. This is just not who we are. Ambiga and Pakatan created a new generation of law breakers, ruffians, dirty politics and irresponsibility.
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I am watching this whole Bersih debacle with much disgust. But I am far more annoyed at the government’s inability to deal with the spinning by Pakatan. Wake up, for heaven’s sake! Surely with all the resources at hand you can do better at getting the truth out there. Instead of just getting the police to line up and fire tear gas at the protesters (thus throwing more oil onto the fire) – get out there and INFORM! Put up huge billboards, have loudhailers like the “suratkhabar lama” uncles, get people on the ground to inform the Bersih supporters, use the media and the internet, distribute flyers, hold concerts and events, to engage in any manner you can to explain what the situation really is i.e. that the law has already been changed as per their demands. Is that so difficult?!
Pakatan has been doing this for years, take a leaf from their book. And I believe they’re also using SEO right now, because if you google Bersih, all you can see are pro-Pakatan sites at least 3 pages deep. Wake up!
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Bravo, resipimama. Ditto to every word you said. Except on “the government’s inability to deal with the spinning by ..”
I think it’s not quite an inability but a reluctance to take firm, bold and assertive measures to avoid further accusations of being so-called undemocratic, etc. It ends up in half measures and emboldening the coyotes. And Rais Yatim seen to be doing only such things as saying Bersih is kotor. Whereas, indeed, he, holding that important portfolio, could have done much, much more all this while. including those that you said.
Sad, very sad. But we need to keep on lambasting the incorrigibles, dissecting the gregarious guts and shooting the dastardly goons in every conceivable but legal way, chide the politically incorrect, challenge the rather placid Establishment, and those “elegant silent”. More of the “silent majority” must come out and speak up. In well-read and respectable blogs like this one.
With due respect to those well qualified and experienced individuals who may want to operate their own blogs, allow me to say that having our thoughts and comments concentrated in well-known and established blogs would help get them to a wider audience. It takes time for blogs to get popular. Well known names have even resorted o sensationalizing news items, got summoned and wasted a lot of time and energy to get a settlement out of court. Even opposition blogs like Malaysian Insider, run by an ex-Reuters employee, was summoned and had to apologize repeatedly in the mainstream media. Malaysia Kini was warned by Home Minister Hishamuddin for reporting what he said inaccurately.
And one wonders if the daily hundreds of comments in M’kini are bona fide individuals, not “made-up” ones. If M’kini complained the day before and on the Bersih rally day of “a distributed denial of service (DDOS), involves using a large number of computers to flood Malaysiakini’s servers with ‘dud’ traffic, causing a traffic jam which denies access to legitimate users”, is it not possible that many of the “legitimate users” are also ” a large number of computers (or even a few specifically designed) to flood Malaysiakini with a lot of so-called Bersih supporters?
DS Najib must know that whatever is done and not done will continue to be exploited by those always looking for excuses to hit the Establishment. I feel no further harm will be done by the authorities coming out firmly and assertively to defend words and deeds of those in power and to whack the abuses of the Opposition. True, the strategy of showing being responsive to the legitimate demands of the rakyat is good. Allowing peaceful assembly and defining the parameters as stipulated under the Peaceful Assembly Act. But there’s no bloody excuse for breaching the Court Order on Dataran Merdeka. Or inciting the public to get there. Take the culprits to court without hesitation. Let the courts decide who’s right who’s wrong. They must be taught to respect the laws.
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“Allowing peaceful assembly and defining the parameters as stipulated under the Peaceful Assembly Act. But there’s no bloody excuse for breaching the Court Order on Dataran Merdeka. Or inciting the public to get there. Take the culprits to court without hesitation. Let the courts decide who’s right who’s wrong. They must be taught to respect the laws.” –
Laws in any country are all man made. I quote an aricle for you to ponder:
(From “Why We Can’t Wait” Letter from the Birmingham Jail – by Martin Luther King Jr.)
A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. … Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust. …
An unjust law is a code that a numerical or power majority group compels a minority group to obey but does not make binding on itself. By the same token, a just law is a code that a majority compels a minority to follow and that it is willing to follow itself. This is difference made legal.
Let me give another example. A law is unjust if it is inflicted on a minority that, as a result of being denied to vote, had no part in enacting or devising the law. … Can any law enacted under such circumstances be considered democratically structured?
Sometimes a law is just on its face and unjust in its application. For instance, I have been arrested on a charge of parading without a permit. Now, there is nothing wrong in having an ordinance which requires a permit for a parade. But such an ordinance becomes unjust when it is used to maintain segregation and to deny citizens the First-Amendment privilege of peaceful assembly and protest.
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Come on, david sing, you’re not saying that because a law is bad, deemed unjust or what have you, therefore people can break it, do you? We’re talking about breaking laws by Bersih people who marched (not allowed under the Peaceful Assembly Act) to and then breached Dataran Merdeka, man.
No need to talk about man-made or God-made laws. It’s just utter anarchist thinking if people break laws because they are not happy with those laws. You heard of democracy? Changing laws through Parliament? Trying to win the general elections, come into power, then only change the laws?
Aiyyo, teruk lah this country if you think it can be done otherwise. I repeat, law breakers must be hauled into Court and dumped into prison if found guilty.
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“an ordinance becomes unjust when it is used to maintain segregation and to deny citizens the privilege of peaceful assembly and protest.”- this is my reply.Otherwise the minority will have no voice. The majority can make up all sorts of law and the minority never gets to change the law.
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What “ordinance becomes unjust when it is used to maintain segregation and to deny citizens the privilege of peaceful assembly and protest” are you talking about, david?
Would you like to explain that in simple language, using short paragraphs?
You are still talking about changing the law by undemocratic and unlawful means, aren’t you? You have dangerous thinking, man. In China you might get shot – they have so many offences carrying the death penalty there. If you are overseas, it’s necessary that you mix with the right crowd so that you don’t develop dangerous thinking. Like the Al Qaeda terrorists. They hunted Osama ben Laden on a dangerous mission to Pakistan and shot him dead, did you not read about that?
You are now mocking the majority when saying “The majority can make up all sorts of law and the minority never gets to change the law.” Try to think of changing the law through Parliament and via the ballot boxes, man, otherwise you should not return to this country. We do not want subversive and dangerous thinking fellows like you.
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in china those caught in corruption are executed. in philipines those who corruptly gain from the country have their assets taken back. In thailand they bar them from returning to the country. Sad to say in my country they allow them to continue milking the rakyat.
Change starts by the people in power listening even to the minorityShould an unjust law be allowed to continue or changed when it is known?.
Peaceful demonstartion is a means where the rakyat gathers to make a point. The police can be present to facilitate it not instigate. Those in authority have even the military should need to mobilise them to ensure a peaceful rally.
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Aiyyo, sing, you not in the country, not present during the Bersih 3.0 rioting, why you wanna talk “the police can be present to facilitate it not instigate.” They have been doing precisely that and no rioting occurred from 11 am until 3 pm. Even if you were around, you’ll probably have your eyes at the back of your head ha? Very susah lah to talk to people like you. But I’ll layan you a little bit more lah. After that I’ll probably talk using your language lah. Accuse you wildly, no need any justification lah.
Wat you talk “Those in authority have even the military should need to mobilise them to ensure a peaceful rally”? You wanna the military to come out ha? Do you know that in Fiji the military came out when the pendatangs – allowed by the British to become the majority there – won the general elections, grabbed power and ruled the country by decrees? Wat to talk about “democracy ala America” etc, etc then?
The military is called only when the situation gets out of control like during the race riots sparked by the DAP in 1969. You should be thanking the Police for their quick and firm action to prevent the crowd from becoming so unruly that the military might be called and there’ll be no telling how long they’ll be on the streets to enforce curfews, etc.
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race riots in 1969? better check your history who started it.
military grabed power in Fiji? – my biggest fear for GE13.
accusing wildly? which item? person in power milking the rakyat, majority
making up laws to their benefit, disallowing peaceful protest.
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What history you reading for the 1969 race riots, man? Communist Mao Ze Dong history?
Remember he burnt history books during the so-called Cultural Revolution in China in the 1960s. He organized it when his power base was sagging due to the failed Great Leap Forward economic policy causing tens of millions Chinese dead from starvation and anarchy. He called it so, wanting the people to speak up, then he knew his enemies, got the so-called Red Guards to parade them on the streets, hands tied, verbally abused, denounced as “communist reactionaries”, spitted at, including professors, teachers and parents of the Red Guards. Something like the First Emperor Chin Shih Huang Di did over 2,000 years earlier. You really are a lost soul, aren’t you?
You fear military grab power at GE13? Another Mao Ze Dong thinking? Or you feeling guilty conscious wanting to change laws not thru the democratic means that even the Malaysian military may not like?
accusing wildly? You saying “person in power milking the rakyat, majority making up laws to their benefit, disallowing peaceful protest” – all without justification or explanation – those are not accusing wildly? Where do you put your head, man? In between your legs, below your tail? How about my accusation now? Still got justification by the previous sentences, betul tak?
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IN CHINA, THOSE INVOLVE IN DEMONSTRATIONS OR GATHERINGS LIKE BERSIH WILL BE SHOT LAH!
U only see what u wanna see, using only points that will help u justify your arguments. In the end, the bigger picture is lost upon u. U only see the small picture. Small minds, smaller viewpoints.
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same same lah. u also using points to justify your arguments. hai yeah!! why go round about way. small picture,small minds smaller viewpoints.look at yourself before you judge another. better is not to pass judgments but look at issues.
isome for your thoughts:
1. are you contnet to allow the abuse of power for personal gains?
2. suppression of free media?
3. suppression of individuals to pursue their potentials?
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More of your wild accusations, david. Your 1,2,3 up there are all accusations, man. Say a few sentences for each one to justify what you accuse lah. Otherwise people will accuse you as stupid, dumb, etc.
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Yes, the Google News pages, always putting out much more of the Opposition so-called “news portals” gibberish compared to the mainstream media, and even the national news agency, Bernama. I’ve long wanted to have answers to many questions – hopefully some one can provide a few of them:
1. What kind of people operate their office in Malaysia and decide on the content of the Malaysian Google News page
Googling Google provides the information that Google California opened an office in Petronas Twin Towers KL in January 2011. The bossman was Google SEA managing director Julian Persaud, an Australian, presumably based in the Google Singapore office, apparently working under the “Little Kingdom and Little Emperor” environment.
2. Sure, with Google Malaysia, more localised contents and services rendered to Malaysians web surfers. But there has been a preponderance of Opposition content. Why? What sorts of people they employ? Who and what kind of people decides on the placement of news headlines in the Google News page? What basis do they use and is there any consideration to fairness in terms of precedence in the order of the placing and the number of Opposition “news portals” news compared to mainstream newspapers and the national news agency news? Surely they are not out to serve the Opposition parties or “news portals”?
3. In January 2011 it was said that The new Google office will focus on customizing products like Google Maps, News, Google Translation. The decision to pick Malaysia as its second office in Southeast Asia was, according to Julian Persaud, that Malaysia has one of the “highest percentages of usage of Google’s Web browser, Chrome, in Asia Pacific” together with 17 million Internet users from a population of 27 million. “The online environment in Malaysia is growing rapidly, with significant developments in both broadband Internet access and e-commerce activities,” he told AFP. Google Malaysia is seen as a strategic step to increase ad sales and market share in Southeast Asia. Aren’t those therefore strong grounds for a serious consideration of fairness in Google’s treatment of Malaysian Internet users i.e neutrality – specifically, not pro Opposition. We expect fairness as much as the Opposition does.
I note that right from the first month of setting up office in Malaysia, Google was sued. The Popular Indian Cuisine Restaurant in Kota Kinabalu, Sabah is recommended by Lonely Planet suing blogger Poh Huai Bin (1st defendant) and Google California (2nd defendent) in Kota Kinabalu High Court on Monday 24th January 2011. – http://googlemei.blogspot.com/2011/01/google-in-malaysia-but-blogger-being.html
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Bapak sedara aku dgn 3 sepupu aku gi KL sebab bos PAS tempat diorang bayar RM150 sorang utk pergi join Bersih. Siap bagi hotel semua. Apa cerita.. rasuah org. Ni bukan untuk rakyat ni.. ini cuma ambik peluang sebab melayu miskin semua boleh dapat duit free. Tak heran lebih banyak melayu. Lepas tu bawak gangster kampung belasah kete polis. Haprak.
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Bagus sdr keluarkan maklumat ini. Menguatkan lagi apa yang saya katakan kapada Kenneth di atas. Saya harap dia baca ini. Dan saya harap ada banyak lagi maklumat seperti ini.
Pasal gengster kampung itu, saya tertarik melihat gambar dua orang Bersih (Kotor, kata YB Rais Yatim) menyeliuh leher seorang Polis berunifom. Seorang darinya muka menyinga pakai baju merah, yang Ambiga telah umumkan sebelomnya akan di pakai oleh “pengawas” PAS kononnya, yang dikatakan akan mengeluarkan 500 orang “Unit Amal” PAS. Saya harap dua orang itu akan di tangkap, di bawa ke Mahkamah dan di dedahkan segala latar belakang dan kaitannya dengan samseng dan dengan PAS.
Tiada ma’af bagi 2 orang yang menggunakan kekerasan kapada anggota keselamatan dalam negara. Jahanam negara jika di biarkan melanda landa.
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Good that the Opposition blog Malaysian Insider (a news portal? .. Naaah, not really news they put out, at best, only a blog giving out mostly Opposition opinions) published Datuk Seri Maximus Ongkili’s statement of Bersih being a political vehicle to test the government’s will to enforce law and order, insisting the rally on Saturday “had nothing to do with electoral reform.”
The Cabinet minister chaired the recently concluded parliamentary select committee (PSC) on electoral improvements. He said the organizers of the demonstration should be held “fully responsible” for the chaos that ensued after some rally-goers breached the barricade barring them from Dataran Merdeka. I would add that they should be made accountable as well. And made to pay the claims by the traders who suffered, and demonstrated, in turn, a few days ago.
Bersih announced a rally early this month, saying it was disappointed with the findings of the Parliamentary Committee despite Ongkili’s insistence that even opposition members of the panel had agreed to over 90 per cent of the recommendations.
“But when you have the leader of Pakatan Rakyat (PR) openly urging demonstrators to storm Dataran Merdeka, then we have a bunch of leaders who are disrespectful of the law of the land and instigating supporters to openly commit offences,” said the PSC Chairman. “Are these the type of leaders Malaysians can trust, place their future in their hands, and to manage this country and the people’s political future?” he asked. I would say that if these people are given power, they’ll let this country go to the dogs. Break the laws like they did on 28 April. Did not even respect a Court Order. And led by a lawyer at that. Just imagine that. They cannot and must not be allowed to reach Putrajaya.
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Looks like DAP Vice Chairman and Senator Tunku A Aziz will be bludgeoned into resigning, or even sacked for being the lone sane voice in the party against Bersih 3.0. The Star.com reported “DAP wants Tunku Aziz to confirm if his criticism was repeated although he was rebuked earlier by the party leadership over the matter.”. The DAP disciplinary board wants to know and the board’s chairman Tan Kok Wai is now trying to locate Tunku Aziz.
Kota Alam Shah assemblyman M. Manoharan called for disciplinary action to be taken against Tunku Aziz. “It is my personal view that severe action should be taken against him. He seems to be a great embarrassment to the party. He called on Tunku Aziz to leave the party on his own accord.
Tunku Aziz had spoken out against the rally before it was held on April 28, fearing that it might turn violent. And it did turn violent. Tunku Aziz then remarked that the Bersih organisers should have realised that while there were those who were genuinely fighting for electoral reforms, others were out to create havoc or hijack the rally for their political agenda.
Tunku Aziz was reported as saying Bersih 3.0 organisers were not “angels descended from heaven” who were blameless, adding that they should look at themselves before pointing at police for last Saturday’s violence. But a gentleman that he is, when contacted yesterday, Tunku Aziz said he was not upset with Manoharan as he was entitled to his personal view.
DAP called Tunku Aziz “a big catch” when the grand old man joined DAP several years ago. Perhaps they are not bothered about losing him now that Mongkol Arif Sabri and Arpan Alias have joined DAP. Of course those two are not comparable to Tunku Aziz in personality and stature. They only have the nuisance value that DAP often looks for in attacking UMNO and BN.
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ABU
Urgghhh I hate those stupid duo Sak and Aspan… Sak’s latest articles are filled with allegations that he himself knows not true but he wrote them anyway! Apa sudah jadi sama Sak?! I smell desperation in him.
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NST says former Inspector-General of police Tan Sri Rahim Noor labelled PAS Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat as the “father of kafir (infidels)” for misleading Muslims to believe that it is their religious duty to support Bersih 3.0. Nik Aziz is of course talking nonsense and the Majlis Fatwa Negara has made a ruling against Bersih – haram.
But I’m appalled by the Opposition blog Malaysia Chronicle which has an article hitting NST, saying “How could NST ever think of allowing that caption / header that Tok Guru is the father of all kafirs?” Whereas the NST caption clearly stated ‘Nik Aziz is father of kafir’ – no mention of “all kafirs”. This may be a moot point because in the body of the report the word “kafirs” (plural) was used in brackets once.
Nevertheless, it shows the extent of fact twisting, information massaging and slants these Opposition parties people are engaged in. Wonder also who that writer using a foreign name, calling himself “J. D. Lovrenciear” is. Is it possible that it’s written by a local bloke who simply uses any name he chooses?
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The man is penalized. DAP Vice Chairman Tunku Abdul Aziz. He’ll not be reappointed as senator when his term ends at the end of this month. NST says he was informed of this yesterday morning and later gave a farewell speech during a luncheon for senators whose terms were expiring. It only shows the ruthlessness of DAP leaders. Woe betide the citizens if they ever get to Putrajaya.
The gentleman he continues to be, Tunku Aziz accepted that by saying, “I wanted to serve another three years, but after what I said, I know it’s not possible. I understand the party’s stand is important, but the nation’s well-being matters most to me,” during his speech at the Parliament banquet area. I’m proud of the man. Even though he belongs to the Opposition party. I wonder if they’ll get him out of the Vice Presidency next. Or even out of the DAP completely.
He later told NST that he was informed by the party a few weeks before Bersih 3.0 that he would be reappointed. “But my statement against Bersih sealed my fate. It’s a small sacrifice for speaking my conscience.” Sad that he had joined a party whose leaders apparently lack conscience. DAP participated in the rally that broke the law and turned violent.
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Tunku Abdul Aziz has resigned from the DAP, citing “irreconcilable differences” with the party leadership.
Waah, 3 years membership, appointed Vice Chairman, made a Senator, informed of renewal of Senatorship, but almost immediately thereafter was told of non renewal, after Lim Guan Eng strongly rebuked him for saying Bersih was irresponsible for encouraging the public to break the law. DAP organized a Bersih rally in Penang and many DAP members participated in the KL rally.
His conscience led him to speak against Bersih. Tunku Aziz said he had already been warned by friends and colleagues to be prepared to be sacked. On NTV7 last night he said, “Given the very wide differences now, which are irreconcilable, there is no alternative but for me to seek to withdraw, with some dignity left. I will therefore resign my membership from DAP and I will be advising the party within the next few minutes,” he said. He did what he said.
“.. this seems to be a standard script for people who differ from their views,” he said.
He said he believed that as a member of a democratic party, he had the right to differ.
Holding up party old man Lim Kit Siang’s book, The Right To Differ, he said he had believed the party was one that could accept dissent. On this he was sadly mistaken.
Many people have long known that DAP, an offshoot of Lee Kuan Yew’s PAP, had hardly tolerated dissent. Following Lee Kuan Yew and PAP when Singapore was in Malaysia and Lim Kit Siang was an ardent admirer and foot soldier. A lot has been written and spoken about how those not agreeing with the top leadership were sidelined, even sacked. Gag Orders have been issued even to the DAP Chairman Karpal Singh and to the DAP Deputy Chief Minister Ramasamy when they were engaged in a dispute.
Now the Mongkol Arif Sabri and the Arpan Who? fellows are basking in the glory of being welcomed as new DAP members. Their time will come. Especially for the Mongkol fellow who is glib with his words.
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After reading most of the comments here (and posting a few myself), it’s pretty clear that the large majority of readers and commentators here do not support Bersih.
I would like to point out something, however. I believe it’s undeniable that whatever you say about Bersih, it has achieved its goals to some extent. And it has made waves in Malaysian history. Despite declaring Bersih 2.0 illegal and demonising it last year, the government responded by agreeing to set up a PSC on electoral reform. At least some mileage has been attained by that (finally agreeing to use indelible ink for instance).
And then when the results of the PSC were less than satisfactory (i.e. not guaranteeing that the reforms discussed would be put in place before the next GE) and the changes were made to the Election Offenses Act, Bersih 3.0 marched. And once again, despite much demonising in the mainstream media, the government has now rescinded all amendments made to the Election Offences Act. Was that directly related to Bersih? We’ll never know I suppose, but I find it only logical to think that Bersih definitely had some bearing on it.
You see, you can say whatever you want, but you cannot deny one fact – so many people came out on the streets on their own accord. I know you’ll harp on some isolated events such as Nik Aziz giving out allowances. But you cannot deny that the vast majority of people came out on their own accord. I can’t help but think how different that is when compared to government organised events. Tonight is the UMNO event in Bukit Jalil. Anyone want to take a guess how many buses they chartered?
All of you talk about the violence that happened. I agree that it was regrettable and should not have happened. You condemn and say the politicians hijacked Bersih. Well here’s the newsflash. You are the hypocrites. You who sit in your homes and sneer. Were you there at the rally? No, and yet you speak as if you knew what it was like. You pass judgement on the whole over a tiny proportion of people who turned violent. And yet you conveniently gloss over the facts that the police also committed atrocities, and even on journalists for that matter. You conveniently forget that the police destroyed and confiscated cameras and memory cards. You miss out the fact that a policeman even pulled and pointed his firearm at people. You forget that Najib himself is ‘hijacking’ the media attention by making wild claims of Bersih trying to topple the government via a street rally. I mean, seriously??
And yet you do not know that most of those people who went out on that day – they were not just standing up for themselves, because self-preservation dictates you do not go out in the face of arrest and tear gas. No, my friends. They went out to stand up for you as well. The fact that you don’t think you needed them to do that, that’s exactly why we needed to do it.
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You are damn right, Kenneth, “the large majority of readers and commentators here do not support Bersih.” I don’t even think Bersih achieved its goals to any extent. Because, the premise must be that the rally was illegal. How can an illegal rally achieve any objective unless, as DS Najib said, it was designed to cause havoc and to topple the Government by illegal means. Even then, tak jalan. No need to call for the military to help even.
It’s a serious charge, causing havoc, etc. A considered one, I think. You cannot deny that this was in the minds of Anwar Ibrahim and the likes of him. What we need is only cold, hard evidence of collusion between Ambiga and those fellows. Like Ambiga was said to have received funds from an overseas source in an account with a bank in which an Opposition member had shares. That came out in the run-up to Berish 2.0, remember?
But I’ll grant you that the Government has acted during or even before the rally. Nevertheless, it’s a moot point whether those were reactions to Bersih’s actions. It can also be looked at from the point of view of the wisdom of the Government. To remove the grounds for the actions of Bersih. Remember the 22 points of 2.0? Then the 12 points, then the 8 points. By the time of Bersih 3.0, Ambiga spoke only about the 3 points. And now there is one restaurant operator in Kelantan who has the same name as the Deputy Chairman of SPR and is the UMNO member that the PKR bloke spoke about. Bersih still glib about the Dep Chairman being UMNO man?
Agreed, you can say whatever you want, but you cannot deny one fact – Bersih 3.0 was an illegal assembly. A flagrant violation of the Peaceful Assembly Act (PAA) which came into force on 23 April, 2012. The Bersih fellows were simply exploiting the situation of avoiding large scale chaos and disorder. Good that the Police acted with water canons and tear gas the moment Dataran Merdeka was breached. To show you people that you cannot exploit it with impunity.
But it’s immature thinking to compare PAS chartered buses carrying those simple folks enticed to “makan angin di KL” (but got sprayed with chemical laced water and tear gas) with those UMNO buses carrying members to Bukit Jalil Stadium, don’t you think? Nik Aziz was not sending members to a PAS function la, Mister. UMNO was sending members to UMNO 66th anniversary assembly. And assembling at a stadium, too. Not marching on the streets that is proscribed by the PAA.
Yes, the politicians hijacked Bersih. No, you are the hypocrites. No need to be at the rally, Mister. We can see form the TV and read the “Live Reports”, including the exaggerated one in Malaysiakini. Remember, we can even get bird’e eye views of the rally that you on the ground could not. Goodness man, you cannot claim to have been able to see from many perspectives – which we can because there were many angles shown on TV, videos etc.
Worst of all is that you people pass judgement on so-called “Police brutality” even before seeing the full picture and the accounts by reliable witnesses as to who started the violence. Saw the videos on the Policeman in uniform being grabbed by the neck by a Red shirted bloke (Ambiga said PAS fellas were wearing red) and one other? Or the Police car being turned over and one skull-capped bloke wearing the jubah dancing around in jubilation?
Wait for the full facts to come out la, kawan. Then can talk about so-called Police brutality. Otherwise, give the evidence, photos or whatever – not the doctored ones la, coz, remember the DAP Information Chief Sabah doctored a photograph showing him being knighted by the Queen about a year ago?
The IGP even apologized for the journalists being roughed up. But that was in the midst of the violence when a Policeman in uniform was being held by the neck by the red shirted bugger.
Now I have to say it harshly – you are so damn stupid to say “self-preservation dictates you do not go out in the face of arrest and tear gas …They went out to stand up for you as well.” Can’t you use your brain to think that we do not want people who break the law to stand up or sit down for us? Aiyyyo, how to talk laik dat one?
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Why are so many comments against the Bersih fellows? Because we are on this side of the divide.
And because we are the majority. The vast majority.
They were only 25,000 at the Bersih rally. Someone calculated it this way:
Assume 1 person takes 1 sq meter space (all road surface covered with people).
Assume the road width at 2.75 meter x 2 ways i.e 5.5 meter.
If length of roads from Pasar Seni, Maybank, and Jalan T. A Rahman to Dataran Merdeka total 3.0 km = 3,000 m x 5.5 meter = 16,500 sq meter = 16,500 people.
Allow road shoulders at 2 meter x 2 sides i.e 4 meter x 3.0 km (3,000 m) = 12,000 sq m = 12,000 people. (Actually, smaller road shoulder spaces along Jalan TA Rahman).
Total number of participants = 28,500.
Allow for empty spaces as the crowds were moving, total participating at 25,000 is realistic.
Pssst, with Anwar around, can anyone imagine 2 persons in one sq meter space? You’ll never know what may be protruding from the rear.
OK lah, allow for a more squeezed up situation in some places. Maximum 30,000 lah participating. What 300,000? Crazy.
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This is partial reply to Anon – not sure why I can’t reply directly to his comments, so have to do it this way. Let’s keep off personal name calling or labelling. I quote below an article of a Malaysian who was in the middle of the events since Merdeka, May 13 1969, and NEP formulation. It suffice for you to see that – 1) continue abuse by those in power for personal gain, 2)suppression of certain people from rising to their full potential. As for free and fair media BBC and Al Jazeera are demanding for an explaination? Enjoy the article.
A nation of strangers: Where have all the non-Malays gone? – Tengku RazaleighWritten by Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah
I am indeed honoured to have been invited to speak to all of you gathered here this morning on a subject of great importance for the continued preservation and survival of our nation.
As all of you are aware, our nation became free from the fetters of colonial domination about five-and-a-half decades ago.
Sadly and strangely, after 55 years of independence, I think we are farther apart now than we have ever been before.
On August 31, 1957 our freedom from the shackles of a colonial past was greeted with euphoria by the different races who came together on the basis of a common vision for a shared future.
We then had a prime minister who believed that the purpose of independence was the pursuit of happiness for the different races in the country, and our success in that pursuit was to him the ultimate test of our success as a nation.
“Greatest happiness principle”, “what I gave to one, I also gave to others”
Tunkuʼs vision for the newly independent nation was based on the “greatest happiness principle”, a subject of intense political discourse in eighteenth- and nineteenth-century Europe.
Like the enlightened political philosophers in the western world, our father of independence believed that governments existed to provide for the happiness of the people, and nothing more.
“For us in the Alliance we have no dogma other than to ensure happiness for the people,” the Tunku once said.
Tunku recognised that individual happiness was tied up with collective happiness, and that sometimes we needed to sacrifice our own comforts willingly so that people from another community were not deprived of happiness.
Like Jeremy Bentham, the great English philosopher would have it, Tunku therefore favoured policies that would bring the greatest happiness to the greatest number of Malaysians.
In his words, “what I gave to one, I also gave to others. In this way, we made everybody happy. This has always been my aim.”
In fact, according to him, “that is what I live for, to ensure peace, happiness and prosperity for our Malaya which we all love so well.”
Tunkuʼs policies were tied up with the golden rule that we must have respect for one another and treat others just as we wish others to treat us.
This golden rule was an important principle in an interdependent, multi-ethnic society such as ours.
Tunkuʼs basic concept of happiness is best expressed in his favourite maxim, “live and let live”.
It is a maxim that calls for acceptance of people as they are, although they may have a different way of life. Tunku applied the maxim in the public domain.
Dashed by May 13, 1969
Tunku was a real father to the nation, as expressed in these words, “… I am a happy prime minister and I have cause to be so. I can feel the pulse of this nation; I am not the prime minister of this nation, but the father to all the peoples who live here.”
If Tunku had boasted that he was the happiest prime minister in the world, it was only because the people were happy. In Tunkuʼs words at that time, “I pray and hope that this happy state of affairs will continue for all times.”
Unfortunately, however, Tunkuʼs dreams were dashed to dust by the events of May 13, 1969.
This once happiest prime minister expressed the pain he felt as Father of Merdeka as he relived those traumatic moments:
“I have often wondered why God made me live long enough to have witnessed my beloved Malays and Chinese citizens killing each other.”
Such was the man that Tunku was. He was the moving spirit of the nation.
Tunku has long gone, and today his premiership is a distant memory. Since the time he left, inter-ethnic relations have taken a turn for the worse on all fronts.
Today, we have a regime that promotes the concept of 1 Malaysia with all its contradictions.
We have an official document that explains the 1 Malaysia concept as a nation where every Malaysian perceives himself as Malaysian first, and by race second.
However, we have a leader who openly transgresses his own official policy by declaring that he is “Malay first” and “Malaysian second”.
The statement comes as a severe blow not just to the concept of 1 Malaysia, but also as a nullification of Jiwa Malaysia or the National Spirit that Tunku was trying hard to inculcate.
No wonder that people can no longer recognise the jiwa — they just donʼt feel as though they are fully Malaysian.
A nation of strangers
It is strange that after 55 years of freedom, we have not learnt the simple art of living together as brothers and sisters.
The countryʼs source of strength is unity, and this source of strength has been slowly whittled away over the years.
We have become a nation of strangers, as evidenced in the fields of politics, the economy, education and the civil service.
The strong presence of communal political parties in the country is chiefly to be blamed for the sad state of race relations in the country. These political parties invariably support racial policies and imbibe racial sentiments among the people whom they represent.
In their day-to-day administration of the country, the powers that be often give scant regard to the constitutional provision contained in Article 8(1) which states that “all persons are equal before the law and entitled to the equal protection of the law”; and Article 8(2) which states that “there shall be no discrimination against citizens on the ground only of religion, race, descent or place of birth in any law relating to the acquisition, holding or disposition of property or the establishing or carrying on of any trade, business, profession, vocation or employment”.
One major sore point in the area of race relations is the New Economic Policy, whose original intention to create unity has been subverted to become a major source of disunity not only between the various races but also among the Malays and Bumiputeras in general.
The New Economic Policy, which was conceived in 1971 not long after the Tunku had retired as prime minister, was primarily created to address poverty, and to raise the level of Malay participation in the economy.
NEP was meant for ALL Malayians
It was intended for all Malaysians, and not just for the Malays or Bumiputeras.
As a former finance minister, let me emphasise that it was never the intention of the NEP to create an incubated class of Malay capitalists.
If we visit the government departments or universities, we wonder where all the non-Malays have gone.
After 1969, suddenly there was this attempt to recruit mostly Malays into the civil service.
It is tragic that the civil service does not reflect the racial composition of the Malaysian population, as the predominant presence of only one race tends to engender a sub-culture that is antithetical to the evolution of a dynamic and efficient civil administration in the country.
Our school system is not as it used to be. The non-Malays prefer to send their children to vernacular schools, as the national schools have assumed an exclusively Malay character.
Needless to say, national schools have become even less attractive to the non-Malays as English is no longer used in the teaching of mathematics and science.
The situation will be very different if all discriminatory practices in the education system were to be abolished, and a common system of education for all is adopted.
National unity is the one area that we cannot afford to ignore, and the real genesis of national unity, I submit, is from an unlikely source: Parliament, warts and all.
It is the Parliament that has the final say in charting the direction the country is heading to.
We must have a strong and resolute government which recognises the needs of all Malaysians, and formulates the right policies for the propagation of a cohesive and integrated society.
If Parliament enacts policies that are just and fair for all Malaysians based on meritocracy and need, more than half the battle for national unity would be won.
In this respect, the rakyat as voters must realise that in the ultimate they alone hold the key to the future of this country.
– Text of the speech by Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah at the Breakfast Meeting at the Kuala Lumpur Convention Centre organised by Paddy Schubert Sdn Bhd on February 24, 2012.
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