I got a lot of queries from college/university students and schoolkids about the recent Bersih 20.0 demonstrations. Therefore, today I would like to provide my point of views and hopefully the most definitive guide for those who want know what Bersih 2.0 is all about.
So guys and girls, here it is. Astound your family and friends with these facts:
What is Bersih 2.0?
BERSIH started out as the Joint Action Committee for Electoral Reform, which was formed in July 2005, and the coalition’s objective was to push for a thorough reform of the electoral process in Malaysia. This committee thought that the election process in Malaysia is unfair and not free from the influence (imaginary or otherwise) of current ruling government of Malaysia. Hence they established this committee to look into these electoral processes.
The formulation of the Joint Communique
The Joint Communique was a result of an ‘Electoral Reform Workshop’ held in Kuala Lumpur in September 2006. The Joint Communique defines the long-term objectives and the immediate working goals of the coalition. One of it is the establishment of the steering committee below.
BERSIH Steering Committee
The Committee comprises members from the political parties, as well as representatives from the following NGOs: Suara Rakyat Malaysia (Suaram), Women’s Development Collective (WDC) and Writers Alliance for Media Independence (WAMI). Note that most of the NGOs are led by people actively involved with the opposition or known to affiliate themselves with the opposition. Although most of the NGOs are legitimate, the coalition itself is illegitimate as it did not register itself as a unit with the Registrar of Society.
The Beginning of BERSIH
BERSIH was officially launched on 23 November 2006 in the Malaysian Parliament building lobby. It was attended by political party leaders, civil society groups and NGOs, including PKR president Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail, PKR vice-president Sivarasa Rasiah, DAP Secretary-General Lim Guan Eng, DAP National Publicity Secretary and MP for Seputeh Teresa Kok, PAS deputy president Nasharudin Mat Isa, PAS Youth chief Salahudin Ayub, PSM Secretary-General S. Arutchelvan, Malaysian Trade Union Congress Syed Shahir Syed Mohamud, WDC executive director Maria Chin Abdullah and SUARAM executive director Yap Swee Seng.
Thus with names cited above, the opposition friendly BERSIH was formed.
8 Points
Bersih’s call for FREE AND FAIR ELECTION is summarised in the following 8 points:
1. Clean the electoral roll
The electoral roll is marred with irregularities such as deceased persons and multiple persons registered under a single address or non-existent addresses. The electoral roll must be revised and updated to wipe out these ‘phantom voters’. The rakyat have a right to an electoral roll that is an accurate reflection of the voting population.
In the longer term, BERSIH 2.0 also calls for the EC to implement an automated voter registration system upon eligibility to reduce irregularities.
2. Reform postal ballot
The current postal ballot system must be reformed to ensure that all citizens of Malaysia are able to exercise their right to vote. Postal ballot should not only be open for all Malaysian citizens living abroad, but also for those within the country who cannot be physically present in their voting constituency on polling day. Police, military and civil servants too must vote normally like other voters if not on duty on polling day.
The postal ballot system must be transparent. Party agents should be allowed to monitor the entire process of postal voting.
3. Use of indelible ink
Indelible ink must be used in all elections. It is a simple, affordable and effective solution in preventing voter fraud. In 2007, the EC decided to implement the use of indelible ink. However, in the final days leading up to the 12th General Elections, the EC decided to withdraw the use of indelible ink citing legal reasons and rumours of sabotage.
BERSIH 2.0 demands for indelible ink to be used for all the upcoming elections. Failure to do so will lead to the inevitable conclusion that there is an intention to allow voter fraud.
4. Minimum 21 days campaign period
The EC should stipulate a campaign period of not less than 21 days. A longer campaign period would allow voters more time to gather information and deliberate on their choices. It will also allow candidates more time to disseminate information to rural areas. The first national elections in 1955 under the British Colonial Government had a campaign period of 42 days but the campaign period for 12th GE in 2008 was a mere 8 days.
5. Free and fair access to media
It is no secret that the Malaysian mainstream media fails to practice proportionate, fair and objective reporting for political parties of all divide. BERSIH 2.0 calls on the EC to press for all media agencies, especially state-funded media agencies such as Radio and Television Malaysia (RTM) and Bernama to allocate proportionate and objective coverage for all potlical parties.
6. Strengthen public institutions
Public institutions must act independently and impartially in upholding the rule of law and democracy. Public institutions such as the Judiciary, Attorney-General, Malaysian Anti-Corruption Agency (MACC), Police and the EC must be reformed to act independently, uphold laws and protect human rights.
In particular, the EC must perform its constitutional duty to act independently and impartially so as to enjoy public confidence. The EC cannot continue to claim that they have no power to act, as the law provides for sufficient powers to institute a credible electoral system.
7. Stop corruption
Corruption is a disease that has infected every aspect of Malaysian life. BERSIH 2.0 and the rakyat demand for an end to all forms of corruption. Current efforts to eradicate corruption are mere tokens to appease public grouses. We demand that serious action is taken against ALL allegations of corruption, including vote buying.
8. Stop dirty politics
Malaysians are tired of dirty politics that has been the main feature of the Malaysian political arena. We demand for all political parties and politicians to put an end to gutter politics. As citizens and voters, we are not interested in gutter politics; we are interested in policies that affect the nation.
BERSIH 1.0 in 2007
In 2007, BERSIH launched it’s first ever demonstration on November 10th 2007. The original BERSIH was led by led by a group consist of PKR President Wan Azizah Wan Ismail, DAP supremo Lim Kit Siang, PAS secretary-general Kamaruddin Jaffar, Wong Chin Huat, DAP publicity secretary Teresa Kok, MTUC President Syed Shahir Syed Mohamad etc.
Most of them are members of the opposition. The rally was epic. Some estimated that up to 40,000 people gathered in the streets of Kuala Lumpur to deliver the Bersih Memorandum to the King.
Upon delivery in Istana Negara, Anwar Ibrahim and PAS President, Abdul Hadi Awang were also present to lend a credence to the memorandum.
Launch of BERSIH 2.0
BERSIH issued its first joint communiqué on 23 November 2006.
At its formation, BERSIH comprised civil society organisations and political parties with the objective of campaigning for clean and fair elections in Malaysia.
BERSIH’s journey thus far has been both monumental and memorable. The public demonstration of November 2007, which saw thousands of ordinary Malaysians take to the streets in support of clean and fair elections, was a critical juncture in our nation’s electoral journey.
They believe that after almost 3 ½ years later, the aims of BERSIH continue to be relevant.
They wanted to continue its crusade for clean and fair elections independent of any political party. BERSIH is thus re-launched as BERSIH 2.0, a coalition of like minded civil society organisations. However their claim to be unaffiliated with any political party remains untrue. But of course, their aim is to effectively monitor both sides of the political divide.
The Steering Committee members of BERSIH 2.0 are as follows :
Dato’ Ambiga Sreenevasan, Chairperson – (She was the Bar Council President during the tenureship of our 5th Prime Minister, Tun Abdullah Hj. Ahmad Badawi)
Andrew Khoo – (Bar Council member)
Arumugam K. – (President of Suaram)
Farouk Musa – (President of of the Islamic Rennaisance Front)
Maria Chin Abdullah – (Executive Director of Empower)
Haris Ibrahim – (President of Malaysian Civil Liberties Movement (MCLM), a splinter political party of PKR)
Liau Koh Fah – (Chair of the Civil Rights Committee, Kuala Lumpur and Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall)
Richard Y W Yeoh – (Pakatan Rakyat’s Councillor of Petaling Jaya, Selangor)
Toh Kin Woon – (ex-Gerakan leader who quit the party to join the opposition)
Wong Chin Huat – (Chair of Writers’ Alliance for Media Independence (WAMI), a very active opposition activist)
Yeoh Yang Poh – (Former President of Bar Council)
Zaid Kamaruddin – (President of Jamaah Islah Malaysia, a PAS affiliate)
Faisal Mustaffa – Coordinator of the Secretariat (also member of PKR, Kelana Jaya division)
Events prior to 9 July 2011
Dato’ Ambiga took over the leadership of BERSIH to continue the pursuit of electoral reforms with the EC. On 27th November 2010, Ambiga and the BERSIH committee met with the EC and discussed the 17 demands for electoral reforms.
The 17 demands are:
1. Investigation of Election Offences
2. Obstruction to voters registration
3. Automatic Registration
4. Lowering of voting age from 21 to 18
5. Absentee voting for all.
6. Indelible Ink
7. Minimizing gerrymandering
8. Minimising malapportionment of constituencies
9. Meaningful campaign period of 21 days minimum.
10. Free and fair media access
11. Control of party expenses
12. Public Finance of Party Expense
13. Right to contest election after resignation
14. Administrative neutrality
15. Restoration of Local Government elections
16. Full Judicial scrutiny on Election Petitions
17. Right to observe elections
As the result of the meeting, BERSIH cut down the demand into 8 points as stated above and all the 17 demands above became redundant. The reason for the decrease is due to the invalidity and irrelevance of the other 9 points and the inability of BERSIH to find proof of the concerns. For example, point number 12 above – Public Finance of Party Expense which is translated as public money to finance political party’s expenses. A bit dumbfounded don’t you think? Why would our tax money be used to finance politicians?
Another one is the obstruction of voters registration. It was dropped because they could not find any evidence on the obstruction.
The rest of the demands are either not connected to the EC, or the EC is already implementing them or it is beyond the powers of EC to deliberate.
When we are negotiating to improve something for the good of the country, we would usually meet and have a dialog with the relevant authorities many times. Just like in school when you are a committee member and is tasked to organise a project, your committee and the relevant bodies will meet many times to see it through.
However, BERSIH only met the EC once on 27th November 2010 but subsequently proceeded to announce that the EC will not cooperate.
The announcement was triggered due to the collapse of a 2nd meeting in April 2011. The EC were said to unable to meet them due to the hectic preparation of the Sarawak state election in May 2011.
However, instead of rescheduling for another date, BERSIH announced that they will organise a demonstration scheduled on 9th July 2011.
Election Commission’s response
The EC is an institution that reports directly to the Parliament. They do not report to any ministers or political parties.
Hence, any change in the electoral process must be done by the Members of the Parliament which consist of the Barisan Nasional MPs and the MPs of the opposition pact because they are governed by the Election Act, 1958 which are passed through Parliament. They can however make recommendations to Parliament. But ultimately, it is the parliamentarians who will pass any changes in the law.
Note that with the obvious heavy presence of opposition MPs backing the BERSIH line-up, no suggestions to reform the electoral process were presented by the MPs in Parliament since 2007. Surely this would be a good and efficient way to actually improve something? However, not one Private Member’s Bill concerning electoral reforms was tabled in Parliament since the formation of BERSIH.
Nevertheless, EC’s feedback on the 8 points presented above are as below.
1. Clean the electoral roll
One of the major concerned of BERSIH is the existence of deceased persons in the list of Malaysian voters. Since people die everyday, it is impossible to update the list on real-time basis as it is required by law that the next of kin of the deceased person to personally contact the EC to notify of the death. The EC do not, and can not have the authority to automatically wipe out the names without a formal notification by the next of kin.
Imagine if the election is today. There will still be names of dead people in the list because there are people that just died yesterday.
EC’s own improvement initiative is to continuously, and expeditiously clean the electoral list immediately after being informed of any deaths.
Another point of contention is the existence of irregularities whereby there are people registered under different address or multiple persons registered under single address.
This had also been improved by the EC when changes to the Act was made in 2002. From thereon, your place of voting is determined by your address in the IC.
The irregularities existed because previously, political parties, through agents, can register their members without the members knowing it. Hence, your voting address will be determined by the person registering it for you.
Plus, in the period before 21st century, most places in Malaysia do not have individual address to a specific home. Most mail/letters that were sent to rural or semi rural areas were sent to one specific spot and collected by the people on daily basis. These spots were mostly, some ‘kedai kopi’ in the villages, post offices, house of the village head etc.
Most people at that time have ICs that indicate addresses which have only the name of the area they live in. This was way before postcodes were invented. By the way, postcodes were only introduced in the late 80s.
Due to this predicament, the problem of specific addresses in the ICs would spill over to the problems of voters’ address in the electoral roll.
However, this was rectified in 2002 whereby voting address will have to be the same with the address appearing in your IC. Voters can at anytime check their voting status and place to vote online with the EC at http://www.spr.gov.my and is encourage to report to them should there be any discrepancies.
Another problem is implementation of automatic voter registration system.
It actually means, once you reach 21, you are automatically be registered by the EC to vote.
In the highly rigid Singapore, it is MANDATORY to vote. Any citizens who did not vote will be penalised by the government.
Malaysia is different in a way she gives you the democratic right of NOT to vote. As an extension, she is giving you the right not to register as a voter as well. People have the right to vote or not to vote. And this is enshrined in our Constitution. You can actually sue the EC and demand why have you been automatically registered when the Constitution does not say so?
BERSIH’s demand seemed to take away this right. EC has the view that, even though voting is very important responsibility of a Malaysian, they must be given the right not to discharge it.
Thus, the EC do not agree with this point. However, they continuously implement awareness programs to ensure that people would know the importance of registering as a voter. They are aware that if the have to impose automatic registration, the Constitution must be amended first before they can actually implement it.
2. Reform postal ballot
BERSIH has this idea that all Malaysian citizens should vote within the SAME DAY.
Due to the illogical manner and the improbability of this to happen, the EC have only to a certain extent, implement some of the changes to improve the postal ballot.
Police, military and other security forces which made up about 200,000 voters cannot vote on the same day with the rest of us due to the fact that they have to be on high alert during election day. If all military and police personnel go out to polling centres, then obviously there will be no proper security to guard our country at that time.
Imagine if all the policemen and the army queuing up for hours on election day. Who shall look after the streets and our borders?
That is why, these people will vote few days earlier than the rest of us. This is called postal voting because the voting process is done at their police or army posts. Recently, the EC had changed the name of postal voting to ‘advance voting’. The process is still the same where you queue up, show your identification, your name will be crossed out, you receive your ballot papers to tick the candidate you choose and the ballot paper will be then slipped into a transparent box. All this will be done under the watchful eye of political parties’ agents.
The votes will then be counted on the same day. No mailing of the votes involved. Perhaps that is why there was a misperception. Just because the process is called ‘postal vote’, people thought the votes will be mailed somewhere else which gave rise to the perception that it could be abused.
3. Use of indelible ink
With regards to indelible ink, it is used among countries which have no IC, such as Africa and India. It is a very low-tech approach. It is as if everyone else is using Twitter or Google+ but BERSIH still wants you to use Friendster.
The countries in Africa or even India have not reached our level yet. We only have 12 million voters. Why should we turn our system backwards when we have reached this level of technological advancement? The reason there is a push for the use of indelible ink is due to fear of double-voting, but we have an adequate system to handle voter identification and it is nearly impossible for people to register twice.
Everyone has one IC number and one identification card. This is the ultimate control system that is used to register and identify the voters. Ever heard of anyone with two ICs? No you have not.
However, to ensure even more security and to improve on voters identification, the EC is seriously considering the biometric system. This is the thumbprint scan very similar to the ones you use in the airport when your passport is scanned.
Another big risk of the indelible ink is the potential abuse. What would stop anybody from going around in rural areas with the same indelible ink and tricks some unsuspecting old grandma into using that ink BEFORE polling day? Come voting day, she will not be allowed to vote by the officers at poll centre because her finger has already been marked. It is against the Constitution to disallowed a registered voter to vote and the grandma can sue the EC for turning her away.
Hence, biometric is the way of the future because let’s face it, everyone has thumbprints.
4. Minimum 21 days campaign period
Longer campaign period is the norm in big countries with a lot of population such as Indonesia and Thailand. We simply cannot compare our country with others that have longer campaigning days. Look at how big the number of voters is in countries such as Indonesia or Thailand.
The EC has the jurisdiction to determine the number of campaign days that they see fit. Remember, the longer the campaign period, the bigger costs are involved to manage the whole election period. More resources such as police and EC officers have to be on duty. This will take a toll in the EC expenses and ultimately, the tax payers will have to pay for these incrementals.
The shortest campaign period was 8 days in the general election of 2008 while the longest was 42 days (more than one month!) back in pre-Merdeka days of 1955. Naturally, back in those days, there were no internet or TV to quickly disseminate your political manifestos. Hence, the longer campaign period for the politicians to go around the country. How things have changed.
5. Free and fair access to media
BERSIH’s whole idea of existence is to negotiate the demands with the EC. However, this particular demand is beyond EC’s jurisdiction because they do not control the media such as Malaysian Insider, Malaysiakini, Malaysia Today, Harakah Daily Utusan Malaysia, New Straits Times and The Star.
Therefore, this demand is invalid and irrelevant.
6. Strengthen public institutions
This is also not in the purview of the EC as they are not the bosses of the Judiciary, Attorney-General, MACC and the police. There is also no law for the EC to instruct any of these institutions. In other words, the EC is indeed have no power to ‘strengthen’ public institutions.
Therefore, it is simply illogical for BERSIH to make this demand in the first place. The parliament is the correct platform to do this.
7. Stop corruption
Just like point number 5 and 6 above, stopping corruption is not the responsibility of the EC. BERSIH cannot demand the EC to end all forms of corruption because simply put, eradicating corruption is not just the duty of the EC but also the duty of all Malaysians.
The Election Commission cannot be expected to apprehend people that are bribing policemen or catching some dishonest businessman who just inflated the price of his project.
Vote buying instances have been documented to be practised by both sides of the divide and those instances have been brought to courts. Again, it is not the EC’s duty to preside over fraudulent cases. That should be the matter of the courts.
8. Stop dirty politics
Perhaps the best way to stop dirty politics is for the politicians within the government and the opposition to practise a more ethical campaigning methods.
This is certainly not under the jurisdiction of the EC.
BERSIH demonstration on 9th July
Without due regards to common courtesy and decorum, BERSIH pushed for demonstrations even after the EC had responded with the responses stated above. The tagline for BERSIH is ‘Free and Fair elections’. And they wanted to handover the 8 points memorandum to the King.
Some say it is their right to show dissatisfaction and by that extent, the people’s right to have freedom of speech.
However certain quarters have the impression that the demands do not warrant a public rally since the EC are quite open for the changes and improvements (except for the ones outside their powers).
Therefore, why should BERSIH incite the people of Malaysia to rally based on the demands that are invalid or already implemented?
If they want to call for free and fair election, at least the call must be fair and also must be free from political motives.
That is why the King made a statement that demonstrations are not the way to solve any issues in Malaysia. He practically asked BERSIH to discontinue their intention to hold street demonstrations.
A day after that, on 5th July 2011, Ambiga and several others had met the King and agreed not to organise a street rally. Interesting to note that Ambiga did not give BERSH’s memorandum to the King at this point of time.
At the same time the government had announced that BERSIH can hold their rally in a stadium which BERSIH readily accepted the offer.
Before any chance for the police to identify which stadium with the most minimum risk to congregate thousands of people, BERSIH announced that they will hold their rally in Merdeka Stadium.
Since the stadium is situated in the middle of Kuala Lumpur the police declined to give BERSIH the permit. Instead, they told the organisers that issuance of permit will be given if the rally is held at Melawati Stadium in Shah Alam. Furthermore, the management of Stadium Merdeka could not approve the use of its stadium because renovations are currently underway.
BERSIH was adamant to use the stadium despite the inability to get permit and despite the fact that Stadium Merdeka is closed for renovations.
As the result, police deemed any illegal gathering around the stadium or in Kuala Lumpur on the 9th of July will be dealt with severely. Warnings have been issued out.
Laws in this country were made to ensure everyone can live comfortably without fear. It is just like in school when there is a rule that everyone must attend all classes.
Imagine when an illegal club in school began to incite other students not to attend classes and gather in the canteen during school hours because they claim one of the school toilets is dirty.
Most of the students have never been to that toilet and do not really know the actual condition of that particular toilet. The janitor of the school made several attempts to explain to that illegal club that the toilet was indeed not perfect or slightly dirty but it is still usable and there are efforts to clean it up even more.
But this does not warrant all the students to assemble at the canteen and break the rule of not attending the classes. The rule is there to maintain order. Students are not allowed to be just anywhere they want to be during school hours. What would the school administration do?
They will naturally penalise the people who had broken the rule. Prefects will herd the students back to the classes while teachers will administer some form of punishment. Does this fall into the freedom of speech concept. Freedom of speech must first be a a valid one. It cannot be based on lies and importantly, it must not break the law.
It is the same with the BERSIH illegal gathering. The protesters made the first retaliation by not adhering to the law of public gathering whereby any mass gatherings must apply for a police permit.
Our Constitution states that we have the right to freedom of speech and expression and the right to assemble peaceably and without arms. However these rights are restricted if it is against public order or security of the people. That is why police will always supervise the issuance of permits.
On the other hand, police must practise caution when dealing with stubborn and ignorant protesters as they are humans as well regardless whether they are there with or without permit.
In order to defeat the illegal gathering, roadblocks had to be set up. This resulted in massive traffic jams all over the city. When options were available to hold the rally in a less hectic venue such as the Melawati Stadium, the police had to cordon off half of Kuala Lumpur so that thousands of protesters can be dispersed easily.
Just like the prefects in school using various methods to discipline the crowd, police used their own anti-protesters methods to drive away the crowd.
In the mean time, BERSIH leader, Ambiga had a press conference with other opposition leaders such as Anwar Ibrahim, Datin Wan Azizah, Lim Kit Siang and Hadi Awang in Hilton Hotel to announce Pakatan Rakyat’s backing over the illegal gathering.
The rally which started at 2pm, ended around 5pm. However, they still failed to hand over the memorandum to the King. Reason for this failure is not clear although rumour has it, the memorandum was lost along the way because BERSIH leaders were busy on the streets near Stadium Merdeka when in fact they should just have made a quick drive to Istana Negara to hand over the document.
The number of people that gathered that day was estimated to be as low as 6,000 and to be as high as 50,000 although the figure of 10,000 is more likely.
Results and accomplishments
1. The BERSIH organisers achieved their objective in mobilising thousands of people to gather illegally in the streets of Kuala Lumpur that day.
2. The BERSIH organisers failed to hand over the memorandum to the King TWICE.
3. Pakatan Rakyat succeeded in hijacking BERSIH’s call of ‘free’ and ‘fair elections’ and morphed it into ‘bring down the government’ and ‘reformasi’.
4. Pakatan Rakyat succeeded in painting a bad light to the government.
5. Government succeeded in giving itself a bad name.
6. Police managed to curb the demonstrations within 3 hours.
7. BERSIH managed to hoodwink the Malaysian public that the free and fair election tagline was actually not a really fair tagline.
8. Malaysia managed to be in the international media because somebody is sad that the EC will not put a permanent ink on your finger.
Thank you.
jebatmustdie 
Dear JMD, would like to put a link to your page on Facebook. As always you are objective in your review and comments. I don’t think the PR cybertroopers would find it offensive unless of course the number 10,000. Anyone that does not agree with their number is deemed wrong and in not so many words, thick. So there you are.
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DS Rais Yatim now says the Information, Communication and Culture Ministry is conducting a survey to find out the motive of people who took part in the illegal rally on July 9. Many were found out to have said they didn’t know why they were in KL. They followed friends and were offered some money, so why not.
Good that that is being done. I hope it’s not done by Merdeka Centre. Because the Director was said to be close to Anwar Ibrahim and MD has done surveys for PKR. Rais must have a reliable and accurate survey.
I also urge the Ministry to look into the combating of vicious propaganda, half truths, spins and twisting of news in the Internet. These have influenced quite a number of people to join the rally. I have often asked the question why Google Malaysia News page often has news headings by the likes of Malaysia Kini, Free Malaysia Today and Malaysian Insider at the top and Bernama, the national news agency, and the others below. Their news headings often featuring more than the others. I haven’t found the answer even as to who operates Google Malaysia and their political inclinations, if any.
True, DS Najib has said the Gvernment would not censor the Internet. But Rais could surely arrange, openly or covertly, the financing of pro-Establishment blogs to recruit full-time writers to counter-argue the propaganda put out by the Opposition blogs. Malaysiakini, for example, admits to receiving funding from Washington-based so-called pro-democracy organizations which do not know sufficiently the actual state of democracy practised in Malaysia. Malaysiakini has been able to employ full time so-called reporters one of whom was given a warning by DS Hishamuddin for inaccurate reporting of what he said. And they employ writers who churn out anti-Establishment comments every few minutes of the day,
There is a great need for the “dummies” to be identified and be properly and adequately informed through the popular media of blogs, facebooks, etc.
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salam JMD, Thanks for the textbook background oh Bersih. Good article for future reference.
My side of the view- we all know the real intent of Bersih2 was to create chaos. This was proven by their actions defying all attempts by the govt and lastly by the King himself to avoid unnecessacy inconvenience to the public at large.
No point having the demo in an isolated venue like Shah Alam Stadium if they couldn’t create chaos. Their demands were legit but they were just camouflage, for their real intent was – chaos. No secrets there.
But what really irked me, was Najib / Govt REALLY serious in dealing with Bersih2 ?
http://dinturtle.blogspot.com/2011/07/bersih-20-imbas-kembali.html
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allow me to to post this in my facebook. Thanks.
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“8. Malaysia managed to be in the international media because somebody is sad that the EC will not put a permanent ink on your finger”
Hahaha. That was the funniest part. Enjoy reading your articles JMD. Keep it coming.
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Salam Jebat,
Biometric voting system also has a weakness.
I have problems with eczema on my palms and fingers. Most of the times, my thumbprints(both right and left) not readable by finger print devices situated in banks, EPF etc etc. It not only me and I came across lots of people who have similar symptoms.
I won’ t be surprise if my thumbprints unreadable during voting day. So apa macam? Fall back to IC for 2nd verification before voting?
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I am sorry to hear that you have eczema. My sister used to have them. I have a friend who doesn’t have both arms and hands. But he would vote everytime without fail. I leave it to the readers’ imagination on how he did it. Anyway, the biometric system is not replacing the IC. It is to improve and strengthen the process. If there are few cases of exception like yourself, using the IC will suffice. Thank you.
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Apolah bangang bona GunBootSammy? So, what happened at the banks? They allowed the withdrawals when you cry-baby?
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GunBootSammy
At first when I read your comment, I thought this is interesting. Then, I stop short when you said: I won’ t be surprise if my thumbprints unreadable during voting day. So apa macam? Fall back to IC for 2nd verification before voting?
There, I honestly laugh. Pepatah Melayu ada mengatakan ‘Hendak seribu daya, tak nak seribu dalih’. Its not like you’re dying with eczema! Oh..this is fun =)
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Dear JMD,
You have put the nonsensical into it’s correct perspective.
As always I admire your patience. Why?
We all can think and seperate the chaff from the wheat.
Our blogosphere has sufficiently explained the illogical demands. It would be logical if anyone provided proof of abuse in the 4 demands, the other 4 being outside the purview of the EC.
That 4 demands are outside the purview of the EC should have been enough to convince a right thinking person that BERSIH is fraudulent and and by extension ALL the demands itself are suspect.
Everyone is pointing to the fact that the PR denied the BN the 2/3 majority in Parliament. The PR wrested 4 additional States. These were proof positive that elections are not rigged as BERSIH intends merely as a perception, a smokescreen.
By the way, the tag “Free and Fair Elections” is a misnomer. No one on this planet can say that any election is clean and fair. Especially in the two “greatest” democracies of the world.
One where the Supreme court decided who became the most powerful and hated man in the world and his cohort poodle who hoodwinked Her Majesty’s nation into an illegitimate war.
The other, where even now as we write, events are unfolding of political shenanigans.
I salute you JMD for your indellible patience, pun not intended.
But these dummies as you rightly post for, no amount of corroboration will ever convince them.
They will NEVER believe or accept truths, if it too strong a word, then logic, even if it physically screwed them in the arse.
You soldier on, as will all those who see deception.
But with you, it is as always, insightful, astute, impeccably polite and with unequaled civility.
Best regards
Freddie
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‘But with you, it is as always, insightful, astute, impeccably polite and with unequaled civility.’
I couldn’t agree more. His method of writing is more factual persuasive than factual offensive.
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PS
About the electoral rolls having dead people. Dead people cannot vote.
FK
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+1. (on your point of dead people cant vote)
Indeed. So why the need to keep them in the ER? Unless some chap comes along and produces the IC of the dead person and vote (either for BN or PR). IC can be forged easily (just ask how many Indos having our blue ICs)
This is the reason why dead people need to be off from the ER. A simple cross check with JPN will settle this issue once and for all.
Salam
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This has been explained in the article:
“Imagine if the election is today. There will still be names of dead people in the list because there are people that just died yesterday.
EC’s own improvement initiative is to continuously, and expeditiously clean the electoral list immediately after being informed of any deaths.”
Plus, EC cannot cross check with JPN and simply delete it. It is against the EC laws. They have to get confirmation from the next of kin first. If they want to change the law, get the parliamentarians to change it in Parliament. I thought Pakatan MPs should have done this long time ago. But none even attempted to do so. Thank you.
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Dear JMD,
Arent it supposed to be the ruling coalition that amends the laws, i.e the government of the day. Since everyone agrees that the ER needs to be cleaned up, my question is why BN is not taking the intiative. Something to hide??
Why pass the buck to PR? even if the Bill comes up for debate, PR cant change it anyway unless it gets the support of the BN members.
As I said the solution is simple. Cross check with JPN since death certs now are electronically issued. Once, Death cert is issued, that person ought to be automatically be struck off from the ER.
Dont just say because PR didnt propose it in Parliament, thus we cant reform the the ER.It is akin to say BN is not responsible for a clean and fair election. The onus is on everyone to ensure that the election truly reflects the spirit and the will of the people.
Thank you and salam.
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Dude, u really cant see it?… It’s not that JMD is implying that BN’s MPs should pass the buck to PR’s MPs… It’s that, the BN MPs sees nothing wrong in the current system!!!! Id it aint broke, why fix it? Improve it, yes, but street really? hell effing no!
Judging from the support by PR leaders, then during parliament session, the PR MPs should address it or present the bill or pay the bill api air or whatever la…
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Another bangang! It’s the law la Gladfly; go ask your 80 MPs to table a Private Members Bill to change the law.
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Thanks brother. Your comments is hilarious.
So by your logic, assuming tomorrow we have a law that bans women form voting. So, by your analogy…PR must table a private Bill to allow women to vote? BN tak boleh la?
Kenapa la kamu ni keras kepala? Bukankah Kerajaan BN is saying that we are a government for all,transparent, clean..dan dll? So kenapa pula BN tak boleh yang table the Bill? Kenapa pula mesti PR yang bentangkan? Semua pihak yg terbabit MENYATAKAN bahawa election law adalah outdated..dan sebagainya. So sebagai kerajaan yang perihatin seharusnya kerajaanlah yang mengambil initiative untuk membetulkan perkara ini. Bukan ke?
P.s Err.. I dont have 80 MPs. I am dont support Anwar, just justice.
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it’s the job of their kins and relatives to report it to the nearest ER about the demised.
unless of course we have to set up suruhanjaya mencari org mati , telah mati dan sedang mati to rectify the problem.
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Cam..cam..
Lain kali sila buat research sebelum buka mulat ya.
How can it be the “job”??? Ini bukan tugas/kerja…undang-undang tidak memperuntukkan bahawa wasi/benifisari mesti membuat lapuran kepada EC (not ER ya ER itu adalah Electrol Roll) berkenaan dengan kematian orang tersebut.Its VOLUNTARY!!!!!!..And you know how Malaysian comes to do things when its VOLUNTARY….KIV sampai akhiratlah
Also, tahu tak anda Sijil Kematian sekarang dikeluarkan secara electronik. The JPN database will have the up-to-date info of the demised people in Malaysia. A simple cross check with JPN can easily clean up the ER. So,apasal dengan suruhanjaya ni? Engkau nak tender untuk project menubuhkan suruhjaya ke?
I rest my case, I cannot fathom how ignorant people are nowadays. Indeed Einstien (sorry have to quote from a Jew) succiently said:-
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the the universe”
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gladfly,
I do agree with some arguments made by gladfly. But as I see it, the ruling coalition did not see the matter as important unless they were pointed out in our respectful parliament. So, they leave the matter to the EC. Therefore, if the PR think that is important to delete those names from the ER. So why not table the bill?
The problem is that PR were too focused on bashing the police and government which make them forget, there are still people who believes in clean voting system rather than political rhetoric. I bet numbers of PR MP’s still do not really understand what BERSIH’s demands is all about. I still do think that PR needs to table a private bill on that matter because people do not know about any redundancies and the name of the deceases until BERSIH comes to. Regardless, this is the only point that is worthy of discussion out of 8 or 17 BERSIH’s demands. Others are ridiculous. You dont need rallies and demonstration to solve this… you need parliamentarians.
So, I come to conclusion… I do agree with JMD “BERSIH 2.0 is For Dummies”
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the the universe”
Stupidity and lack of knowledge are different altogether. Political wise, the materials are everywhere, they just dont find it.
Thanks.
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Even some living people never turned up to vote for the election, let alone the dead.. nice on bro 😉
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I thought the reason of the peaceful rally is to show how many people agreed Bersih 2.0 prior to handing over the memorandum to the King?
Don’t you think a further negotiation between Bersih 2.0 and the Government prior to the rally would fail since our government was playing ting tong ting tong game ?
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Did you just made this excuse up along the way just to counter this whole article? Naughty fellow since everyone knows that BERSIH wished to submit the memorandum to the King on the day itself.
And your assumption that the negotiations would fail is baseless since by this very article and its chronology had proven that the EC had given Bersih a lot of explanation and even willing to work with them. It was Bersih which was ‘ting tong ting tong’ with the EC and the public after only ONE meeting. Your contention that the EC had been flaky in its approach really is baseless. But then again, you will not believe what your brains is reading. Thank you.
Minds are like parachutes; they work best when open. -Lord Thomas Dewer
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Nope, I didn’t make that excuse to counter your whole article. I thought BERSIH could just send in the memorandum when they met the King but they didn’t because it doesn’t show numbers and that was what the rally for was it not??
The “ting tong ting tong game” was referring to the “rally negotiations” between the government and BERSIH 2.0.
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Salam..
Memorandum does not have to show numbers. What for? It is not a referendum. It is just a document containing all the 8 demands. This is the document that they want to show the King about their ‘grievances’ in the election process. That was the reason. But obviously, BERSIH was playing politics and making up excuses as they go along. The rally is just to cause trouble and the winner is obviously PAKATAN. You guys are supporting PAKATAN even more now right? Anyway, if you are referring to the negotiations 48 hours before 9th of July and not the duration of 8 months before the rally, then I still believe it was BERSIH who played the ‘tarik tali’ game. I have explained it in the article itself regarding the Melawati Stadium. Thank you for visiting.
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Yeah, the memo is to show to the King of the demands but the rally is to show the number who agrees on it.
I think BERSIH is apolitical and of course I don’t blame you if you say PAKATAN is highjacking it.
I’m not from any political parties nor I’m saying what BERSIH 2.0 doing is right but I’m very disappointed on how the government react to this matter this past 2 weeks. They could just do better.
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Ibn Hajar, you mean those who oppose the BERSIH rally should also come down to demonstrate that they oppose the demands? Don’t you think that is a little bit stupid. Most people like us prefer to let our MPs to do the job. BERSIH 2.0 proved one thing that the Opposition MPs just do not know how to do their job.
The BERSIH 2.0 is just another attempt to distarct the current government to do a good job and create issues for the next GE.
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No, I don’t mean that Razali. But arresting people wearing a yellow T-shirts ? With so many unjustified arrest ? Banning BERSIH 2.0 just because they didn’t registered properly? Don’t you think that is a little bit stupid?
To me, BERSIH 2.0 is a small matter but the governments is making a big deal of it. If the government couldn’t handle this small matter, I don’t think they could properly handle larger crisis in future. Yeah, you could blame BERSIH 2.0, you could blame the PAKATAN, but still to see how good a government for example; is not blaming on how good (or cunning) the enemy but how they reacted to the situation.
Indeed what Hang Jebat did was wrong, but who are you to to decide that he must die ? And if the government(or Sultan at that time) was reacting better to this matter (instead of sentenced Hang Tuah to death without trial for the alleged offense), I don’t think Hang Jebat would do such a thing.
I’m not talking about MP jobs, but the government jobs in this matter.
If BERSIH 2.0 is an attempt to distract the government from a good job, then I say the government have fail. You don’t want your worker get distracted and not doing a good job do you? Better get a worker who are not easily distracted.
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Ibn HAJARS
The fact that ambiga admitted receiving funds from foreigners is a fact that all Malaysians should be concerned about. This is manipulated interference against a country’s sovereignty.
Most democratic countries do not want to be dictated by foreigners whose interest will not be IN FAVOUR of Malaysians.
They may fund this unrest to install a puppet that will just let these foreign bodies run the whole of Malaysia to their own benefit and against the ordinary rakyat as a whole.
No country would want to be colonised again.
While having a clean and fair electoral platform is a noble objective, the issue here is that this campaign could just be a COVER for a political agenda benefitting a few politicians.
The moment anwar claimed that he COULD call off the bersih rally, warning bells have sounded. Ambiga was clearly furious and tried her best to portray this rally as a non-political event. But we saw different. Each party’s supporters went marching with a diverse objective and different chants.
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Ibn Hajar, arresting people who’re wearing yellow, is not about discriminating against the color, it’s about what it represents. IF, Bersih have no preference of color, and decided to ask supporters to wear 70s clothing, I believe the police WILL arrest those who’re in bell bottoms and afros… This is akin to wearing a t-shirt with the slogan “Eff The Gov!”… It’s all about representation… get that?
And then, u thought that thousands of people marching on the streets, with slogans that are seditious, a SMALL matter??? Sheesh!!!
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Dear DaYN,
And your point??? Let me quote your line “This is akin to wearing a t-shirt with the slogan “Eff The Gov!”… It’s all about representation… get that?”
Is wearing a t-shirt with a logo “eff the government” illegal? Please point it to me where in the Penal Code that says its illegal to do so.
“Eff the Government” does not equate to TREASON!!!!!!….. Sheesh!!!
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I’m also not from any political parties nor I’m saying what BERSIH 2.0 demanding is wrong – but I’m very disappointed on how Pakatan and BERSIH itself manipulate everything. They could just do much, much better without jeopardising Malaysian image, internationally.
Bottom line, we all choose what we want see. BERSIH 2.0 cuts both ways. Believe me, as much as the “alternative media” is shouting that people hate the ruling government even MORE now – the same thing can be said to the Pakatan. For all their antics.
.
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RBBD, it’s not Malaysian image that are tarnish internationally, but the government.
Malaysian Government and Malaysian People is two different thing.
Yeah, I thought it would become a double edge sword for both side, I can’t predict what will happen in GE13. But the other side seems to be more united. Haha…
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Ibn HAJARS
‘Malaysian Government and Malaysian People is two different thing.’ You couldnt be more right about that.
But not in this case, its a matter of perception. What do people think when they heard the name of Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden? Do they (the west and some east) think of a dictator and the head of terrorist organization? The truth is when the names were shouted they think of Muslim as general. The Muslims are terrorist. That the general perception, dont you think? The same can be said about Zionis. Do zionis encompass every jews? So why do you think that we Muslim hates jews? Do all jews kill Palestinians? When the Indonesian media articulating news about Malaysia’s so called ‘claims’, why does the indonesians hold a demonstration in front of our embassy? Is it a coincidence? When they said ‘Ganyang Malaysia’, did they think about sweeping the Malaysian Government or any Malaysian as general?
So my ultimatum is… When Bersih tarnish the good name of Malaysian Government, does it tarnish the good name of Malaysia? or is it just Najib?
Its good to have some sense, but its better to have knowledge
Thanks,
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The key word here is “seems”. Never disregard the silent majority just coz the minority is more vocal.
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Malaysia is Malaysia, irregardless… Because of Bersih, we’re seen as an incompetent country… Citizens AND government
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kalau uncle JMD reply mcm ni kat saya.. saya rela pegi terjun lombong aje la.. tertusuk tepat ke dalam lubuk hati kalau sy ni ibn Hajars.
ps.
i dont think the explanation satisfies the ignoramus-PR-fan. im sorry ibn Hajars
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Dan demikianlah Kami adakan pada tiap-tiap negeri penjahat-penjahat yang terbesar agar mereka melakukan tipu daya dalam negeri itu. Dan mereka tidak memperdayakan melainkan dirinya sendiri, sedang mereka tidak menyadarinya. surah al-an’am (QS. 6:123)
sekadar renungan buat yang mempunyai iman…
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Correction, the spr website should be http://www.spr.gov.my/ not http://www.spr.com.my
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Thank you. Will rectify.
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Well written Jebat!
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Bersih basically is giving an example that:
If one can get ones way, because it was poorly articulated, shallow in arguements and shabbly presented, then just go to the streets and label the Government whatever you wish.
The public is stupid enough to believe because they act out emotion than rationality. This allows
propaganda and psywar to take priority over rationale dissemination of information.
When it is Pakatan to rule, how would they view if others do the same on them.
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Pse allow me to fwd to my fb
TQ
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Correcting the Correctors: Part 1
I am ever so grateful to JebatMustDie for letting my article be surrogated in his website. Someone mentioned that I should have my own blog and to that I humbly agree, instead of being a digital hobo here and there, blogless and penniless (hehehe). Just that, to paraphrase Mick Jagger, Time is not on My Side. Equally grateful too for all the commentators who take their time to comment on my article, whether supporting or “correcting” me, and in the light of new evidences from the net as regards to the issues that I touched above, whether it be numbers, police brutality, “peaceful” rallies and so on, I have taken the time to study them as best as I could, and I have visited the relevant youtube videos or photographs related to the rally displayed in other websites. I am now ready to discuss this issue again, admit my errors should there be any or correct my correctors if they warrant to be corrected.
But before I dwelve into that let me tell you a cute little story. My friend was involved in a minor accident in Klang some years back, between his car and a car driven by some young people. My friend said it was clearly his fault, and he was ready to face the consequences, but he needed the insurance to pay for both cars and so a police report must be made, understanding that if he does that, there will be additional fine by the police to him due to his error.
Now upon alighting at the Police station and presenting their stories and all the necessary documents, it turned out that none of the young driver or passengers in the other car had a valid driving license! With this revelation, the police shifted the fault purely on these youngsters and let my friend go free. They contented that once you are not with a valid driving license, EVERYTHING YOU DO ON THE ROAD is a crime. In fact just BEING there is a crime. Their whole presence, existence on the road is a crime, and crimes that other people seemed to have committed against you (like my friend) probably would not have been committed if the PRESENCE of a crime generator, crime nucleus (the young kids) was not there in the first place. Case closed, my friend got off scot free and some over-testosteroned adolescents got some lessons taught by their dads at home.
Such is the case of this BERSIH rally. We could just STOP any arguments right here and there, once the police have declared that it is illegal to have such an assembly. And not only that, the police have also issued a statement of what they will DO beforehand: close some parts of the roads, seal off some intersections and warn people not to continue their illegal march. Now by disobeying this order itself is a crime and technically, those who did attend it were criminals. Oh no—don’t be melodramatic and say that you are not murderers or rapists or thieves. You very well know that there are different grades of crimes. But a crime is a crime. Let’s get over that fact.
One thing that permeates the minds of these goers here is the false sense of absolution in doing a criminal act. “The police do not let us. But let us still go any way. What’s wrong in that”. How do I reply to such an error? Well perhaps with an analogy involving your daughter. She wants to go out with her friends late into the wee hours of the morning. Knowing that beforehand, you issue a warning not to leave the house without your permission. Secretly she goes out anyway, and when you admonish her the first thing when she returns at 4am, and asked her why she didn’t ask for your permission her reply was that if she had, you wouldn’t have given any permission anyway. Skewed logic? Feeble dialectic? Perhaps. But multiply that 6000 times in magnitude (or 50,000 or 300,000 whatever pleases you) and you now get the meaning of Bersih!
Continuing on your daughter, a most hideous event occurred: she was robbed and raped at 3am. “But it wasn’t my fault,” she said. “I didn’t wear any skimpy dresses or anything”. Again, the argument falls back to the same initial staunch syllogistic: “If you had not been out there initially and disobeying my orders, this would not have happened!” And here’s another clincher-scenario: let’s say BEFORE going out on that blissful, unlawful spree, your daughter had been WARNED by the robber that if anybody passes along this way or that, they would be robbed and raped. Yes, a most cartoonish example but for argument’s sake let’s say still she goes. So your daughter now is completely free from blame?
I can feel already some detractors reading this already cracking their knuckles and itchying to type on their keyboards: “but this is different. Your daughter’s story and the Bersih story are different. They are apples and oranges”. You are right, my friend. It doesn’t compare. The Bersih rally, had the police decided to allow it, would be much more worse than facing some over-pheromoned rapist facing skimpy-dressed girls.
Now let’s get to the matter at present. It seems that many points raised are more rhetorical rather than factual, especially those who care to reply in another “top-10 list” style. These are just knee-jerk reactions, and having glanced with one eye at some of them, I conclude that they have been answered in my initial postings and in some other comments anyway. But I think you all agree with me regarding ONE topic which rears up again and again: Police Brutality.
Apocryphalist
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you really should start a blog 😉
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Correcting the Correctors: Part 2
Were there any police brutalities? Well you know what, people. I think you better research more and get some MORE videos because I am not convinced that there is any police brutality AT ALL. If you say spraying with watersprays, chasing round the block, shouting to the crowd to disperse them is brutality, you really do NOT know what Brutality really is. Ok if you show that single video of a police kicking one protester, that is peanuts compared with what other police around the world do, facing insurgents. Additionally, one do not see the whole story:if, for example, the police reacted like that due to being provoked or even attacked (Tian Chua, you read this?), then kicking is the kindest thing a police can do.
“O My Gooddd! Is Apocryphalist condoning the brutal actions of the police shown in the multitudes of videos that abound out there?”. Answer: Yes, No, No and No.
Should the police should act with measures extraneous than just kind verbal “Di Pinta hadirin sekelian bersurai. Tolong lah”. Yes. Because once you do not heed police warnings and insistence, then should the police allow that to continue, you do not know to what lengths the mob could escalate their provocations.
Should the Police just allow the marches to just go on “peacefully” as they claimed? No. The KDN, the police have looked at all angles. Firstly the organizers said that they promise the rally to be non-political. Then all manner of political innuendos started creeping in, and the rally was led by political personages, minus the symbolic stooges.
Was it apolitical, free-from ideologies? Nope. They found banners and brochures extolling for and a return to old socialistic and communistic ideas. Could it just purely be peaceful if the police had allowed it? No. Prior to the rally, molotov cocktails were found, weapons were amassed and those with pure intent to just “grieve about elections” could be easily be hijacked into joining a truly dangerous, violent insurgent which has nothing to do with elections at all.
Are our policemen now joining the ranks of Brutal and Inhuman police force that are so much despised elsewhere in the globe? Not at all. Here’s what it means to be a REALLY brutal police force:-
Greece
Georgia
Spain:
Denmark
A word of advice though: please do NOT show these videos to our local Malaysian policemen, for fear they might regret that their actions last Saturday deemed too kind or sissy compared with what their other compatriots the rest of the world react when faced by such a situation.
But another factor intrigues my mind. That is the opposite of police brutality. What if the police are actually peaceful and non-violent, but it is the CROWD that provokes the violence in the frst place. There is great evidence here:
Important! Must See Video !
Please take time to watch the video above. Our discussions are based on it.
Now in this video we can clearly the following:-
The police are static, non-confrontational, non-provocative. And then:-
• Perhaps seeing no action, and not getting the correct reaction that he had in mind (videographer standing by to record “police Brutality”, ready to upload to mobile laptop instantly and then sent to youtube so that Malaysia can be broadcasted worldwide as an “Oppressing, Brutal, Violent regime”) Tian Chua gets impatient, discusses with some malay cows behind, and then “One, Two, Three … Chaaarggeee!” (or something to that effect). 0:16
• Only upon being charged in like manner by the hooligans, and as a defensive measure, the police fired out smoke cannisters to prevent the crowd from attacking them. 0:20
• If the police had not shot the relatively harmless smoke cans, no one knows what would have happened to those charging mob: in the attempt to attack the police, they themselves could have sustained much more serious injuries.
Interestingly, once the police fired the canisters, the rebel rousers lari bertempiaran like lipas kudung — Tian Chua and all. I know. This is not the time for jokes but heck, where goeth the fighting spirit, comrades? Or is it just all cock-talk?
Incidentally, now that the video is up and about, I think the powers that be should seriously look into this matter. This is not just a demo: this is pure evidence of the vicious and provocative nature of the “peaceful Bersih” mobsters, particularly of Tian Chua. I am sure we can find a lot of articles in our constitution that find such a behaviour as purely outright criminal.
Anyway I have a lot more to say but let’s have a look at Jebat’s latest article. What is this Bersih all about, what are its origins and how should a true Malaysian regard it.
Apocryphalist
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Apocryphalist,
Regarding police, absolutely right to say that those demonstrating are guilty of an offence. That has to be and is an established fact before you get into the nitty gritty.The police are LAWFULLY there to disperse an UNLAWFUl assembly. They are trained to enforce the law when you ignore their order to disperse. If the assembly does not disperse and the police does not take further action it means that the police are ineffective. In another situation, eg 5,000 illegal immigrants marching to an embassy for whatever reason, they would be condemned as such by these very same people who are there for a “worthy” cause.
Thank you
Freddie
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Ok la, my not so knee-jerk reaction :
No Brutality – Police brutality is a civil rights violation that occurs when a police officer acts with excessive force by using an amount of force with regards to a civilian that is more than necessary. Of course no one can force you to share the common definition of “more than necessary”.
No Deaths – This is a peace rally, one death is sad enough, I have no further comment.
Anwar’s Injuries – Hmmm…. wrote so much on a has-been?
No Slogan – Bersih. No?
No Representation – Someone mention? Purely speculation. Next.
No Numbers – The picture there do not show 10,000? Another speculation, Next.
Murder on the Orient Express Effect – Again write so much on a has-been and not sure why the need to psychoanalyze Ambiga and Mat Sabu, not many are interested la, but the striking title did impress me.
No Reason – Why only 5 and not all? And who is talking anything about revolt? Can we know more how you came by such conclusion? I suspect your answer will make me laugh.
No Way – Sometimes 9 is not that bad, empty talk to make it a 10 doesn’t help, sorry no cigar.
No Shoes, No shirts, No problem, No hal. – Finally something make sense, but it is mind boggling you wrote so much on a non-event and further elaborate with a part 1 and part 2.
Boy, do us a favor, make up your mind before writing, it helps.
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Dear Apo
Thank you for an intellectual analysis that you and JMD had taken the trouble to present. We do appreciate the efforts.
But all these are lost on a group that never bothers to ascertain the reasons nor the consequences of their actions. They are prompted MORE by monetary rewards. As they are ignorant of the real objectives and dangerous repercussions, they feel that their right to express their version of freedom of speech, OVERRIDES any other considerations.
I read Marina Mahathir’s “pleasant” experience joining in the “mature and united” Malaysians rally. And of course the government was blamed for “mishandling”.
There were also yellow T-shirts in other countries, even in strict Singapore to show support for bersih. Tian Chua was witnessed canvassing for foreign support.
Really, can anyone be very SURE that every one of these marchers knew what they were marching for??
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Good points!
Sometimes MM’s logic is so flawed. She was saying like… “Don’t confuse between the government and the people who took part in BERSIH. The world now has bad perception towards the government but not towards the Malaysian people who were in the march.”
It doesn’t matter whether it is the Malaysian government or the Malaysian people. Bottom line, our Malaysian good-name is tarnished. As a whole. And as a Malaysian, who travels internationally a lot for work-related trips, that concerns me!
People like MM, who has never has to work all her life (because she already has enough money for three generations at the age of 21) – should never offer her demented perspective. She doesn’t know how it feels walking in “the shoes” of all these common people.
.
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Salam JMD and APO,
Mohon izin saya copy komen kedua APO untuk blog saya – TERBAAAAAIK !
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only watched half way of the police in greece & gorgia! got no gut to watch more!! dont think our police, majority muslims & have family, children & all, would go to that extend to cause damage to public since PDRM is known for their ethics (of course there could be few, very few bad apples), to solve lots of crime cases in our country. in fact, even those police hated guys would surely go to the police if let say, they’re being robbed or snatched! definitely they wont go to tian chua or nwar first!!!
*could clearly hear the phrase “ambik gambar!, ambik gambar!” in the video!! what for? they provoked the police, hoping the police would react & they wanted to shoot the photos?? how sick!!!! where’s their guilt???
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Sdra JMD,
Saya terpanggil sekali lagi nak berkongsi perasaan saya terhadap Bersih 2.0 ini. Tapi sebelum itu saya rasa amat tertarik diatas persembahan tajuk tampalan sdra ” Bersih 2.0 For Dummies ” berserta dgn gambarnya (I think it’s cute).
Memang benar apa yang sdra kalamkan itu. Saya setuju. Cuma ada beberapa kemusykilan untuk dikongsi bersama.
1. Adakah Tun Abdullah mempunyai pengaruh keatas Bar Council dan pergerakan Bersih?
2. Mengapa Datuk S.Ambiga perlu berjumpa dengan Tun (menerusi sahabat baik Tun, Datuk M.Ramalingam) semata-mata untuk meminta pendapat diatas titah Seri Paduka Baginda YDPA?
Akhir sekali, selama ini saya amat kagum dengan kelantangan DSP Marina Mahathir melalui pojok beliau,The Rantings, dalam akhbar The Star. Tapi sekarang saya hairan apa tujuan beliau membawa keluarganya keluar pada 9 Jul untuk menyaksikan pergerakan Bersih 2.0?
Beliau ingin tunjuk kewanitaannya yang bersemangat besi atau kebodohannya?
Sila baca blog beliau di rantingsbymm.blogspot.com, kalau belum. ( I hope her father is taking this well or else he might need another bypass, God forbides). Terima kasih.
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dulu bila allah jadikan manusia, iblis yg alim dan warak pun marah kat allah. sampai sanggup nak menyesatkan mereka dari pegangang allah itu sendiri.
people never asked you to decide , but marina went all the way to look at the alternatives , make a choice and decide.
therefore you took with you responsibilities and consequences. then you have to live with it. don’t blame the creator.
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Dear JMD,
Digress a bit with little or nothing to do with Biometrics and dead people. Just recalled a story. It goes that some Indians balik kampong to India after they pensioned and claimed pension by thumbprint. Well the pensioner dies and the relatives keep on claiming pension. They kept the thumbs of the dead pensioner. How far it’s true I do not know.
Thank you
Freddie
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Dear Freddie,
What you said about the Indians balik kampong and hand their thumbs to the living ones are true. I was told about this by a Union Leader back in the 80s! There was a time , government started to wonder why the pensioners still claim when many of them were aging into 80s and 90s!And they sent officers to India to do random search and found out why..
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good read
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a masterpiece Saudara
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The rally which started at 2pm, ended around 5pm. However, they still failed to hand over the memorandum to the King. Reason for this failure is not clear although rumour has it, the memorandum was lost along the way because BERSIH leaders were busy on the streets near Stadium Merdeka when in fact they should just have made a quick drive to Istana Negara to hand over the document. (false. Fact: A.Samad Said brought the memo to the istana’s gate. only to be stopped, and they wouldn’t take it from him on behalf either. were you there? I don’t think so.)
The number of people that gathered that day was estimated to be as low as 6,000 and to be as high as 50,000 although the figure of 10,000 is more likely. (False. Fact: obviously you weren’t there. obviously you relied on MSM)
3. Pakatan Rakyat succeeded in hijacking BERSIH’s call of ‘free’ and ‘fair elections’ and morphed it into ‘bring down the government’ and ‘reformasi’. (False. Fact: true there were shouts of reformasi, but each time a rakyat will overwhelm it with call of bersih.)
4. Pakatan Rakyat succeeded in painting a bad light to the government. (False. Fact: Gov don’t need anyone else to do that. Have you watch Buletin Utama lately?)
5. Government succeeded in giving itself a bad name. (refer to number 4. aren’t you contradicting yourself?)
6. Police managed to curb the demonstrations within 3 hours. (False. Fact: Roadblocks started a day before. Arresting started days before. Media threat started weeks before. And on the day itself, detainees was released at 6pm till 12am)
7. BERSIH managed to hoodwink the Malaysian public that the free and fair election tagline was actually not a really fair tagline. (False. Fact: the people think otherwise. Let’s not care what the politicians thinks for this one, that’s out of Bersih’s jurisdiction)
8. Malaysia managed to be in the international media because somebody is sad that the EC will not put a permanent ink on your finger. (False. Fact: Al-jazeera didn’t mention the word ‘ink’ at all in their coverage)
Are you Berita Harian trained?
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one question… Ambiga had the chance of presenting the memo on the day she met HRH Agong.. why she did not pass it on that day?
~ OnDaStreet
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Hey Firstimer
Actually all your FACTS are not supported with solid evidence. Your retorts are just expressions of your opinion.
#1 – Show us a photo or a video of him bringing the memo to the istana’s gate.
#2 – What is the number? Provide a satellite image.
#3 – Overwhelm reformasi with bersih? Any video footage?
#4 – Have you watched TV1? Where is your proof?
#5 – No fact??
#6 – Demonstration = roadblocks, arrests, threats, release, Huhh???
#7 – People think otherwise, where is your list of names??
#8 – International Media is made up of ONLY Al-jazeera?? What about Berita Harian training??
Hullo, you should seriously buy yourself a good dictionary and FIND OUT the real meaning of FACT.
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It is so clear this is another distraction stratergy by Anwar. BERSIH is only a front but still Marina Mahathir thinks she’s on the right side. Pathetic.
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Salam,
Jebat, saya minta izin copy & paste komen Apocryphalist ke dalam blog saya ya. Mohon izin dari Apocryphalist juga. Saya akan copy & paste dulu. Kalau tak izinkan saya akan delete kemudian 😉
Terima kasih.
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i’m one of the KL citizens who got stuck at work when d so called ‘peaceful’ rally took place at KLCC… we got cut off that day as a safety precaution by the management… our income were paid by hours, yeah i might regard my colleagues n me as the one who gets d ‘collateral damage’ out of it… think about those who cannot go to work at all that day…must’ve been much worse
now talking bout ‘free and fair’ by the BERSIH 2.0 rally; kinda remind me of a line from a movie;
“Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I’m an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It’s fair! ” – Joker, the Dark Knight
yep they did it…they created ‘chaos’ to get to their ‘free n fair’ demand…it is ‘fair’, but it is with a ‘fare’ to bear …and we, the so called ‘silent ones’ were the ones who had to pay…
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When an article starts with interesting facts, and then gets laced with subtle one-sided remarks, it is obvious what the writer intends. So please don’t insult the intelligent reader with claims of objectivity. Thank you.
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Please don’t insult the real intelligent citizens with your insulting remark. Do you really know what intelligence means? Let me simply put it: menarik rambut dalam tepung. Rambut tak putus, tepung tak berderai. Going for win-win solution to achieve your so-called “fair and clean” aims.
What BERSIH did? Bancuh rambut dalam tepung. Lepas tu goreng jadi cekodok rambut. Nobody wins. Everyone loses. Pakatan may claim they gain “the most” (in terms of political benefits) because of “how government handle” the whole situation.
This is the fact: more than 50% of Malaysians still have no internet access. They don’t watch Youtubes. They don’t read facebooks. They don’t watch CNN or Al-Jazeera. They only watch TV3 and RTM. Can you imagine how these 50% react, when they see all those yellow hooligans shouting and bad-mouthing their own country?
BERSIH 2.0 is the “voice” of netizens; and the urban people – mostly. They don’t represent the 50% underprivileged Malaysians. These underprivileged Malaysians onlyy care about: how to send their kids to school and how to bring food to their tables. The language that BERSIH (plus Pakatan) are talking doesn’t exist in their vocabularies. Why do they care about the overly dramatised issues of unfair and unclean election – if they don’t even know if they have enough food tomorrow to survive for another week?
It is a case of the underprivileged rural vs the idealistic urban people. Come to the GE, who wins? You go figure. Here is the hint for you: 3 millions of Sabah population are translated into 25 parliamentary seats and 60 ADUNs. 7.5 millions of Lembah Klang population are translated into how many?
So, if Pakatan think they are winning the “perception war” by riding on BERSIH, then they would be brought back to reality in a very shocking manner – just like what did happen in Sarawak few months ago.
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Bravo RBDD. They have been praising JMD and others already. You deserve praise for what you say, too.
I like and support what you say. I wish you’d come in here often. It’s heartening to hear responsible and refreshing views.
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Salam bro, one of my friend who is bersih supporter mentioned about election act below. Could you please comment on this? thanks
Election Act 1958: 16. (1) The Election Commission may with the approval of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong make regulations for the conduct of elections to the Dewan Rakyat and the Legislative Assemblies, and for all matters incidental thereto. SPR can initiate and the house will debate and make decision.
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This is one of the stupidest articles I’ve ever read.
Comparing freedom of expression to school rules. You might as well go back to school yourself for having the brains of a schoolboy.
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Hehe
And you have the brain of a retard, no intelligent rebuttals, just plain misplaced arrogance. And you should register in the hospital for the mentally unsound.
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The core process in any democracy is the election. It is said that no country can claim that their electoral process is perfect and beyond improvement. If a nation is ruled by the same party for over 50 years it is natural to expect the opposition to support the demand for reform.
That BERSIH ended up meeting only the EC so far shows how much the political leadership has managed to tai chi the matter to the civil servants. That no member of the opposition has ever raised the matter in the Parliament on the other hand shows the quality of our opposition. Seriously, you don’t expect the members from the ruling party who has been in power for 50 years to question the integrity of our election process, do you?
That is the downside of the western-style of democracy when problems are solved ala debate competition in school. One party proposes and the other oppose. We are forced to take side even though deep inside we know that one party is incompetent and corrupt to the core while the other is equally incompetent and not necessarily immune. Probably a group of backbenchers consisting of members from both sides including the independent members can be created. They can play a different role without having to get stuck into ‘I am right, you are wrong’ mindset.
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Dear Jebat,
please allow me to post this article in my facebook.
cheers.
YTT
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The excellent one!
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Dear JMD, I just wish your articles to be read by the average Malays (Which majority uses BM). Sometime, these guys don’t have the capability to beat the rationale that was planted to them by the opposition.
Orang PAS, walau ada hadis, masih tertakluk kepada logik. Tambah lagi orang bukan Islam sekarang mmg kaya dengan logik, bukan emosi (Mereka belajar dari org Islam purba yg berjaya jugak pun)
Maybe I have to translate your article and contribute some for the cause. Atau ada org lain?
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Kalau ikut logik BERSIH:
1. Tuntutan BERSIH 2.0 nampaknya tak BERSIH (either 4+4 or 5+3)
2. Oleh sebab itu, maka BERSIH 2.0 perlu membersihkan tuntutan tersebut (buang/pinda 3 tuntuan last)
3. Kalau BERSIH 2.0 tak pinda/buang tuntutan tu, maka rakyat berhak keluar berdemo dan hantar memo kepada Agong ‘Tuntutan menuntut BERSIH membersihkan Tuntutannya’
4. voila, dah ada sebab buat demo. BERSIH tak boleh harap kepada polis, sebab polis zalim dan menindas rakyat.
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Good posting Sir.
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To all the college students (like the writer mentions), you want intelligent facts? Read this blog http://art-harun.blogspot.com/2011/07/bersih-my-final-thoughts.html
Jebat is just another ‘DUMMY’ for ruling coalition.You want his piece of mind,just follow mainstream media controlled by political parties.
Our rights to assemble peacefully is enshrined in the Federal Constitution. If Tunku Abdul Rahman didn’t march for us,we would probably still be a British colony. Anyway, back to the argument…All demands made by BERSIH 2.0 makes sense (to the sane minded)
The decision to bring it to street was because GOVERNMENT and EC ignored them completely,thus,they needed public support…
And,the whole WORLD demonizes our GOVERNMENT for they way this whole debacle was mishandled by BN. I mean Jebat writes something here,which the WHOLE WORLD disagrees…well,someone need to talk good about BN,they make a living by lying.
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I believe whatever you said here has been debunked by this very article. Even the Federal Constitution mentioned that freedom to assemble is given provided it does not impinge on national security or public order (article 10(2)(a). Even Art Harun neglected to tell you this as people can be ignorant. Funny that those lawyers and yourself freely and easily cited the Constitution as reference but failed to tell us the whole truth. They only select paras that are beneficial to them. Have a read of this article if you think Bersih’s demands are valid or not. Thank you. Hope you won’t be a dummy anymore…accusing people without proper basis and knowledge is the sign of incoherent and mindless lackey of some misplaced cause. Thank you.
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i lol’ed hard when u said there’s no or minimum brutality around in the rally. Yea, i should join police force now and start kicking protestors, claiming that its part of police training. Stupid people with dumb brains will never think.
Btw to author, Jebat is a chinese race not a malay race. Check on the net bout the 5 hang brothers, don’t just believe deeply in the sejarah book.
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How anarchistic you can be, lol. You are subversive and come out here to instigate, don’t you?
You are even a communist to suggest that the Internet is more reliable than history books.
You certainly deserve a kick in the arse.
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Those NGO’s are mostly Anwar related and funded by international NGO’s under CIA and zionis alliance. NED (National Endowment Democratic mention on the funding for these NGO’s to sabotage Malaysian government and support Anwar as their soon pupet to be.
Please check NED’s website :
http://WWW.NED.ORG/FOR-REPORTERS/NATIONAL-ENDOWMENT-FOR-DEMOCRACY-TO-DONATE-FOUNDING-PAPERS-TO-LIBRARY-OF-CONGRESS-JUNE
http://www.ned.org/for-reporters/national-endowmenr-for-democracy-to-donate-founding-papers-to-library-of-congress-june
and :
http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/asia/malaysia
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Assalamualaikum semua,
Mungkin anda semua mahu meneliti pandangan daripada orang PM Najib sendiri disini berkenaan dengan BERSIH.
http://sakmongkol.blogspot.com/
Sakmongkol AK47 is the nom de plume of this blogger. His name is Dato’ Mohd.Ariff Sabri bin Hj. Abdul Aziz. He was ADUN of Pulau Manis, Pekan.( 2004-2008) From 2000-2004, he was Ketua Penerangan UMNO Bahagian Pekan, under Dato Sri Najib. Studied Economics at University Malaya and University of Manchester(Owens). Sakmongkol was a legendary Muay Thai fighter. AK 47 is the Russian made firearm. He can be reached at the following e mail: ariff.sabri@gmail.com
Wassalam
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Mr LOL,
You are asking people to simply ignore ‘documented history’ and refer to the ‘net’ as a reliable source of fact and stories? Hmmm… I wonder who’s the stupid people with dumb brain here. 😛
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There are people who believe anything that serves their purpose. In some culture, eating animal parts will enhance their own organs.
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its funny why many in this site are against having a free and fair elections.
they must be the same bunch of cheats who disallowed newly registered voters from participating in the 1999 election. what was the excyse given then?
umno wants the malays to live in the feudal age.the brighter ones are given scholarships and serve the warlords by bring employed either in the government, or glc’s. The wheeler dealers get government contracts, sometimes with advance payment to boot, or guarantees.
the poor ones get funds and choices of schools and colleges to advance their mental capabilities.
umno does not want a free and fair elections to maintain their bondage of the malay race and enslave them, turning them into walking zombies, staying alive to serve the master. in fact, umno does not want malays to be free, and it is written in the constitution so that the shackles are permanent.
give the malays the freedom including in faith, and allow jebat’s spirit to flow into their veins, so that they may be great again.
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You really do have a sick mind, don’t you, tempawan. Each time you come out here you spew anti-Malay, anti-UMNO, anti-Government hate.
I have appointed myself, hopefully with JMD’s consent, as your Nemesis. Each time you come out with your hate comment, I’ll put out the retribution against you. How about that?
You don’t get it, do you? That Bersih is not about, and many in this site are not against, having free and fair elections. That Bersih is about an illegal street demo organized by people claiming to bring up the issue of free and fair elections but were actually promoting all sorts of other political issues that were the bread and butter of the Opposition political parties. You must be so dumb as not to understand that. Or so brainwashed by the Opposition that you refuse to see anything else except their arguments. Or you yourself are a member of the Opposition.
Now, are you talking thru your nose when saying “umno wants the malays to live in the feudal age .. scholarships, employment in government or glc’s .. government contracts .. advance payment ..” You must be a bloke belonging to the chauvinist, racist and subversive DAP that wants the so-called Malaysian Malaysia without acknowledging the Special Position of the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak. That wants to subvert that Special Position by wanting kesama rataan without recognizing that Special Position. That does not want the playing field be levelled for the Malays to fare comparatively well being nearly 60% compared to the extremely rich and well educated Chinese who form only 23% of the population. That kept raising race issues until it led to the 13 May 1969 race riots.
The Malays do have some “advancement of their mental capabilities”, thanks to the NEP, but it’s still far from enough. The non-Malays who form only 30% of the population occupy perhaps 70% of the professional jobs in the country. It’s the Malays and the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak who should fill up 70% of the professional jobs.
The rest of your comment are merely berating the Malays in this country. You are putting down the Malay race by saying things like “bondage of the malay race and enslave them, turning them into walking zombies, staying alive to serve the master .. written in the constitution so that the shackles are permanent.” You are rude, inciting and plainly kurang ajar. You are a nuisance in this country and such a waste of time and effort to show readers here what you are. But it needs to be done and I’ll do it each time you come out irritating and inciting others here.
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@tempayan
the european union has already indicated that the ec is not neutral as they keep on using the word “we” when indicating the government during press conference.
i am still amazed at the number of malays that are unemployed or unemployable. religion has a part in this. medical journal has indicated that pregnant women who fasted in ramadan could cause up to 20% of their babies to be born mentally retarded.
and we see very young children performing this ritual in kindergarten and schools, when they require nutrients most.
why are malays doing low skill jobs in the country serving mcdonalds and delivering it, when they can have better pay if they had taken up paddy farming or construction with proper support from authorities? is this not the result of poor government policies? or is the government enriching the few cronies who supply foreign labour at the expense of the low income society?
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Your concern towards Malays touch me, but then again, as a Malay who have cross people like you, I know your real intention. Ha ha ha..
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gosh,u must really have low reading comprehension… tsk tsk… pls reread the article, thanks
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Part 2 to tempawan’s fairytale
and so they live happily ever after, with their colonial masters now in yellow instead of white …
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Several academics have noted that Malaysia is a flawed democracy and its electoral system is rigged to ensure BN victory.
Would appreciate if you could comment on the research made by these academics.
http://malaysiasdilemma.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/malaysias-dysfunctional-democracy/
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