Blogger SatD posted something that is very relevant to the current issue at hand. Forget the sex tape for a moment. This issue has been dragging down the whole political landscape from 2008.
The culmination of this is the stubborness of the Catholic authorities when dealing with the Alkitab (bibles written in Malay). Even after the Home Ministry had released the bibles with requirement that each book be stamped, the Catholic authorities arrogantly threatened the ministry and spun this issue as if the ministry is desecrating the holy book.
They even went to the extreme by arrogating that the Christians are persecuted by Muslims and after them, it could be other religions as well.
They forgot that even the Quran are stamped by the authorities.
So instead of embracing the spirit of give and take, within the ambient of 1Malaysia, the Catholic authorites used malicious strongarm tactics to arouse discontent among the Christians. Instead of trying to pacify, they antagonise.
Tell me, what is the motive? With that being asked, I am sure that the objective is not to see this matter to end amicably, but to create more trouble and pandemonium over an issue that is very sensitive to many Malaysians.
Hidden hands and interested parties have taken hold of the Christian authorities. Do not cross that line.
Please read SatD’s piece here.
jebatmustdie 
i wonder too why the insistence like all this while malays have been killing christians or something…
bengang jugak lah dianggap kita tidak beradab when we have been most civil all this while.
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Elok rasanya pandangan sebegini disiarkan dlm MSM terutamanya dalam akbar-akbar Melayu kerana saya perhatikan ianya kurang diberi pehatian oleh masyarakat Melayu setakat ini. Elok juga di buka cerita apa yg terjadi pada golongan kristian di kepulauan Indonesia sebagai pengajaran. If the Christian Authorities here are so keen to push their luck to brinkmanship- so be it. You reap what you sow.
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I’ve been quiet here for a while, bro. But can’t stay silent on this one.
“They forgot that even the Quran are stamped by the authorities”, you said. I’m not sure they forgot. I suppose they know but conveniently put it aside when pushing their luck. Bloody hell (excuse me, JMD, but this is a matter of Heaven and Hell, isn’t it?), the authorities bent backwards to accomodate them and this is what they get for being accomodating?
Excuse me again if I appear racist but I’m told the Christians of yesteryears in Malaysia were not like this, rational, reasonable, mutually respectable. But after the expatriates left the country, the locals became more Christian than perhaps even the Christians of the Vatican.
Come on, slaves of God. We Christians and Muslims are all beholden to Him. Arafat the Palestinian leader once said on TV – and I’ve read one Professor say (can’t remember which one, need to check one of my books – that we Muslims traditionally feel closer to Christians than to Jews, Arafat even married one. Either the same Professor or another one said that we in fact worship one and the same God, Muslims believe in all the Prophets preceding Muhammad, including of course Nabi Isa (Jesus). But the term Allah simply does not fit the description of The Trinity of The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost, the term Tuhan fits better, and there are a host of other reasons why you all should not insist on using the term Allah.
Let’s be reasonable here so that we don’t have to brandish the Constitution stating Islam is the religion of the country and no arson etc thought of, nothing physical contemplated. What say you, ha?
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woit just saw Rocky’s latest piece…
Millionare bro JMD!
Congrats!!!
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JMD,
First of all I am so damn disappointed with the blogs who were so obsessed with that sex video. There are bigger issues like this one. Sad. Anwar is self-destruct so just let him die a slow death. No need the over kill. And while the Malays are distracted by Anwar’s sex, lies and videotapes, these I-don’t-know-what-else-they-want-christians are pushing their luck harder and further. I hope that they realized that it only take a flick of a finger or a sudden change in wind direction for all hell to break lose.
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“Create uproar in the east.. attack in the west..”
The sex vid tu is the diversion when the real issue is THIS (alkitab). Sayang byk org tak sedar..
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If the Christians are really being discriminated here in Malaysia, why are there churches in every nook and cranny?
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dengar2 blog dah hit 1million. really? congrats! been an avid reader of this blog since 2009.
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boring blog…as silly as rocky’s spin
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What the bloody hell are you doing here, you son of a gun.
If boring you get the hell outta here lah. Use Tuah’s name on top of that. You just got done by Anwar main belakang ka?
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Saudara JMD,
Khabar angin mengatakan kos haji Muasasah akan naik 30%-40% dari RM10,000 ke RM13,000-RM14,000. Jika ini berlaku, diucap terima kasih yang tidak terhingga kepada pengurusan Tabung Haji kerana menambahkan beban kepada pakcik makcik di kampung yang berpendapatan rendah. SIla baca lapuran Bernama di bawah dimana Menteri di JPM telah memberi HINT tentang perkara ini.
Ahad Mac 13, 2011
Kos Tunai Haji Akan Diumum Dalam Masa Terdekat – Jamil Khir
YAN: Kos mengerjakan ibadat haji akan diumumkan dalam masa terdekat, kata Menteri di Jabatan Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Jamil Khir Baharom pada Ahad.
Beliau berkata, kerajaan telah meneliti kajian mengenai cadangan itu yang dibuat Lembaga Tabung Haji (TH) tahun lepas.
“Tunggulah sama ada berlaku kenaikan kos atau tidak. Semua faktor yang mempengaruhi kos menunaikan fardu haji diambil kira, namun kerajaan manilai tambang yang bakal diumumkan nanti sebagai sesuai dan tidak membebankan jemaah,” katanya.
Beliau yang ditemui pemberita selepas Majlis Jalinan Rakyat Bersama Menteri di sini, berkata antara faktor yang diambil kira TH dalam cadangannya ialah pembangunan yang berlaku di sekitar Masjidil Haram dan Kota Mekah.
BERNAMA
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JMD no matter how smart you are a Malay, you are just like a typical Malay who misses the whole point, a big point here!
Malaysia is all about how the non-Malays, namely the Chinese and now the Indians trying to take over the whole essence of the country. Now they the “enemies” are using religion to trick us into defeat and yet, never fail, that we always fall for it.
Malaysia is never about religion, it is about when the non-Malays that will eventually taking over our country and they, the enemies, know how to manipulate the Malays into helping them to that goal, that is if we are not on constant vigil!
Always remember, young or old or good looking Malays, or ugly looking Malays, under Chinese or Indian rule we will succumb to political, social, and economic oblivion! Penang and Singapore and probably Perak soon!
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What “misses the whole point, a big point” r u talkin’ about? Say it clearly lah.
More importantly, give 1-2 suggestions lah. Like Like stronger NEP in MBE or 60% equity target or what.
Got to address this using the term Allah issue, man. If they want all sorts from us Muslims when Islam is the official religion, you have to realize there is a big point in stopping them stretch their luck.
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They have been testing us all along,, and toying us all along,, only those with the powers are not seeing it.
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heck, Even Nicky Ajis don’t realise the gravity of the situation. dumb A H.. ahahahaahahaaa
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I have to say that Rus does have a point. In the bigger picture, it IS a matter of power struggle, one/ more culture/ race over another
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religion/ideology is futile and waste of time, divides mankind and create animosity and mayhem.
it is not the peninsular christians who are clamouring for the right to use the “A” word, but fellow bumis who speak malay in sabah and sarawak, and their kindred brothers who now work in the peninsular. they have used the malay bible imported from neighbouring malay country which does not have issues with the “A” word for many generations. unfortunately, the closed and narrow mindset of the muslm community in peninsular who lords over everyone else worse than what the colonial british did, are forever seeking issues to dominate and pillage.
the non-bumi christians will not use bahasa bible as they have no use for the language which does not bring them any benefit nor prospect.
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“the non-bumi christians will not use bahasa bible as they have no use for the language which does not bring them any benefit nor prospect.”
i don’t agree with this as my wife boss (Chinese lady) is having a copy of that i don’t want to call it malay bible..it should be indonesian bible. while my wife and her colleague saw it on their boss desk. the front is decorated with Arabic words and if you look it from a distance it really looked like Quran. anyway Alquran is also called as Furqan,Kalam and also AlKitab. maybe we will not see the effect now but future generation might be duped by this doing.
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Thats the idea actually, they are not aiming at us,.
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They are about one fourth in term of progress in their master plan to saturate the Malaysian Muslim. Their aim is our 4th and 5th generation and after…
Please open our ears and eyes…
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“the non-bumi christians will not use bahasa bible as they have no use for the language which does not bring them any benefit nor prospect.”
if that’s the case why are THEY the ones who loudly clamour for the use of the word Allah in their bible when they have no use for the language? The Christian bumis have been using it here in East Malaysia with no issue, and indeed it was no issue until the Christian authorities over in the Peninsular made a huge hoo-ha over it and made the bumi Christians in the eastside worry and fret needlessly. It wasn’t the bumi Christians who made a fuss. It was the ‘non-bumi Christians’ as you call it, if I remember correctly, who brought us all to this mess.
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Dear JMD,
If I have read Datuk Rocky’s post correctly, I believe congratulations are in order. And nice to see you back. I have posted on the same issue in my blog.
Congratulations again.
Warm and best regards
Freddie
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Let us all be rational in this! This is not about Christians vs Muslims issue so don’t mix everything up! If you point a finger at someone, remember about your other fingers! This issue was not started by Christians as we have been tolerant for so long, fifty years, as nothing untowards had really started by Christians in this beloved country. We gave so much to contribute to the welfare of this nation and kept the harmony all this while. Then there the Allah issue and the Alkitab issue all came firing at us. Keeping quiet after our holy books being held up two years speaks of great patience (I don’t even know there was such a thing before it went public.) I believe Quran speaks about justice and tolerance or else you guys would not believe so passionately about it.
Yes, the Home Ministry did compromise on their part but I believe and agree with the Christian leaders that this time the Ministry have gone too far. If we continue to keep quiet, then perhaps the next generation will seen our rights erode further.
I believe the Christian leaders do not want to make things difficult but to highlight to authorities that we also are Malaysians who love our country and they must treat us as stakeholders in nation building.
As for you, Rocky Bru and SatD, I urge you guys to write something that heal, build and for the stability of this nation instead of fomenting further division in this beloved nation where we all call home!
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Yes, this is not about Christians and Muslims. But our Christian community is being manipulated by the opposition for specific agendas. If you read the posts with an open mind you will see that these bloggers too do not want anything untoward to happen.
It just so happen that they are Muslims.
I am a Catholic and I feel strongly that my Church has taken an ill advised confrontational attitude, which is unprecedented, due to these unseen hands.
I have stated in my blog that our Church is closing their eyes to this opposition manipulation thru misguided Christian opposition symphatisers. I know that for a fact.
If you are a Catholic and you ought to know exactly what I am talking about, as my late mother use to say “Shame the devil and tell the truth” . The Church IS being infiltrated by opposition propaganda.
If there was not the slightest hint of hidden hands and this rather radical posture by the Christian community, I am quite certain Muslims will see a grievance rather than threat.
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Thank you Freddie.
This issue is not about the Christians being oppressed by the ‘Muslim’ government (as what their memorandum seemed to be saying). This is just a procedural issue. It is just a matter of KDN issuing stamp on the bible. Newspapers have to get permits on yearly basis. This kind of ruling happens all the time. Even Al Quran must be stamped. Should the Muslims in Malaysia do a protest so that the Quran also should not be stamped because the Christians here in Malaysia do not want KDN to stamp their bibles? If the Muslims are okay with this, why can’t the Christians?
Therefore I really don’t know where this is heading. Especially when some of the Christian authorities wanting to put 5,000 bibles in the museum as sign of defiance. What is that for?
Thank you Freddie.
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JMD,
Something like the Holocaust Museum 🙂 Hmmm
FK
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Dear Freddie,
Let us look at the chronological event to prove a point. After two years of confiscating the Bible and many pleas were turned down by KDN, did the Christian leaders turn to opposition parties or politicised the issue? Then before the Sarawak elections was announced, the Christians were happy that finally KDN agreed to release the Bibles only to find some unwarranted stamps (Not just serial numbers we are concerned) and a For Christians Only by order of KDN stamped prominently on the Bibles. That was done without any discussions and mind you, those were holy books.
Did Jebat must die, Rocky Bru, SatD lift up a pen to defend the Christians who were helpless and defenseless? But now, after we highlighted a little bit more, they were ‘up in arms’ against us, calling us all kinds of names!
We welcome any help, either from opposition parties or MCA who spoke up for us. We do not want to be involved in any political wrangling but just to uphold justice and fairness. When Geert Wilder from Holland rose up against Muslims, the Christian communities quickly distanced themselves with him. I even personally wrote in to Star (published) and dispute with his stand and told him to come to Malaysia to look at the Muslims here and see for himself how peaceful they lived with everyone! Then the extremist pastor who wanted to burn Quran, the Christian leaders quickly denounced such act of sacrilege. Did Jebat must die, Rocky Bru or SatD lift up a finger to denounce the sufferings of Penans who are mostly Christians in the hands of the authority?
Freddy, I do not want to get emotional but let us deal fairly with the whole issue. Thank you for your gentle spirit. God bless you. (I am not a Catholic, just an ordinary believer in Jesus)
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to be honest, I don’t think Gert Wilder’s downright threatening words to the Muslims, and the Quran burning come any close to the Bibles being held back due to official procedures.
But to say that the Christians do not have support from the non Christians in this issue would be painting it with a broad brush. From the beginning of the ‘Allah issue’, there’d been many, many people, Muslims alike, who supported the usage of the word by non Muslims, Muslims who condemned the arson of the churches as well as Muslims who call for the Bibles to be released. Even those who spoke out in defense of Valentine’s Day. To say that people are keeping silent, which at the same time insinuate that you’re being ‘persecuted’ and ‘victimised’ when ‘helpless’ just shows that you probably do not read the papers, blogs, comment sections of blogs or talk to people of other races and religion around you O__o
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Dear Wani,
If you read carefully my comment, I did not say no one supported, I said, Opposition parties, MCA supported. I only said, JMD, SatD and Rocky Bru did not highlight the issue of fairness which in regards to issue at hand – and not about Christians having a victim mentality all the while! We believe in God and we are happy people!
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@Ronnie
Wani is right on all accounts.
The Christian community are being depicted as being “persecuted”. On this matter I have alluded to it in my blogpost. I cannot recall this kind of posturing on the part of the Christian community.
I stand by my statement that we are being influenced and manipulated by the opposition and their symphatisers, hiding behind the Constituition.
The Allah issue would have been resolved long ago, negating the Bible issue, had the Christian community used the alternative, Tuhan.
They still can.
I recommend HantuLaut for further reading. His blog post today will interest you. http://hantulautan.blogspot.com/
Dear JMD,
I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries for the recommendation above.
Thank you
Freddie
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Dear Freddy,
Read my comment to Dot on human issue of “Allah” usage! You cannot solve issue by being too simple minded. Just change this and that because someone is not happy. What is the right thing to do and what constitutes justice and fairness – all this must take into consideration. I am disappointed with your comment, perhaps you are just a Catholic who is quite content with yourself but not really bothered about your brothers and sisters in Christ! Forgive me if I am wrong!
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@Ronnie
As there is a space constraint, I have responded in the main comment box
Thank you JMD.
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Freddie,
You are the best bro!
This country would be a thousand time better with an open minded person like you.
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Ronnie,
I urge you to read my comment as a reply to Tempawan’s comment below.
The arguments I used in there are also applicable to your comment.
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Dear Dot,
I do not want to go so much into linguistic arguments because we can actually agree to disagree. I believe “Allah” for God is Arabic and were widely spoken first by Arab Jews and Christians even before Islam as a religion came into being. Archaelogists had find many written documents, preIslamic ones, in churches of how Allah were already widely used during that time. When Islam came here, naturally they brought the word, “Allah” along as they propagated the locals. (I also personally heard firsthand from an Arabic man who told me about that some time ago)
I would want to go the way of anthropological argument instead. Let say, throughout generations, a tribe has been using “Abah” to address their fathers. And books were written about how Abah must be addressed in deep respect. Then all of a sudden, someone came along and said, “No you cannot use Abah anymore, but use Abuh instead.” Even if you forced them to use Abuh but deep down inside their culture and hearts, Abah had deep seated meaning. They argued, “No no, please, we have been using it all this while and everybody understood each other in Abah. We don’t want to change now to Abuh. It’s not right! It sounds wrong”
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Dear Ronnie,
A short one, as this post has been superseded by newer ones.
Of course Allah is an Arabic word. Of course the Christian Arabs use Allah to refer to their God. It’s natural. It’s their language.
But it’s not natural in this country. Tuhan has been the word used since time immemorial. Malay has been the lingua franca for umpteen centuries. Tuhan describes God in any form, in any religion in this country.
So, when the Malays/ Muslims objected to the use of the term Allah, which in Islam means the one and only, why the intransigence and uncompromising stand?
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Ronnie,
Who is being irrational???
The issue is simple; that KDN has compromised for the Malay (Indon) Bible version from being banned to permission of distribution with condition that the book to be stamped “for Christian only”.
What about the Christians group? They still make a big issue out of this! Is this what you call willing to compromise and toleration?
Let me ask you some simple question to make this more objective and into perspective;
Would the “stamp” alter or compromised the content of your bible??? Is it now that with the stamp incorporated suddenly your Bible content change from being that THREE GODS; God, son of god and holy ghost to only ONE GOD???
So I truly don’t understand what all this fuss is about!!??
Is this what you called as being rational???
Ronnie further said:
________________________________________________________
As for you, Rocky Bru and SatD, I urge you guys to write something that heal, build and for the stability of this nation instead of fomenting further division in this beloved nation where we all call home!
________________________________________________________
My reply:
Huh, how convenient it is for you to imply that such writing (like this posting) is tantamount to – create more division in this nation and instability???
As a matter of fact; the truth is the opposite.
Article such as this posting by JMD was/is created for the sole purpose to bring more stability back to this beloved nation and to further halt the division that is prevalent nowadays.
Do you think that there will be stability in this nation when the 60% Muslim majority not being satisfied with the merely 5% Christians e.g. this issue with the distribution of Malay (Indon) Bible and the issue of Allah name; that we have here???
Not withstanding to the above; even without the “stamp” issue, the majority Muslim in the first place already did not agree with the Malay bible version after all.
So could you please ask yourself back;
Who is being irrational and who is bringing instability to this Tanah Melayu???
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>> Who is being irrational and who is bringing instability to this Tanah Melayu???
Sabah + Sarawak is not Tanah Melayu. Ps keep that in mind
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Huh!?
Noted; Sabah + Sarawak is not Tanah Melayu and of course for surely is not Tanah Cina as well.
Then what?
Stamped the bible “For Christian only and not to be used in Semenanjung Tanah Melayu”
May I suggest that additionally restrict the distribution to area of Sabah + Sarawak only!
I am not sure what other pribumi there would say about this….
With regard to the Semenanjung; I agree.
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By the way, one more thing;
Look at what Idris Jala 10 point 1 Malaysia formula is all about here: http://satdthinks.blogspot.com/2011/04/al-kitab-soon-to-be-available-in-store.html
It doesn’t just affect the Sabah + Sarawak but also implicate Semenanjung Tanah Melayu as well.
So please bear that in mind Ok
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Sabah and Sarawak are part of the Gugusan Tanah Melayu or Malay Archipelago. Read about it in the history books. Don’t go to wikipedia as they even try to re-write the history of this country there. Bear in mind that any tom, dick and harry can write in wikipedia.
Read the book recommended by Dot earlier on – Tamadun Alam Melayu by Mohd Arof Ishak published by the Historical Society of Malaysia. It gives out the results of scores of research and scientific studies carried out since the 19th Century until now, pointing out the 350 million Rumpun Melayu, which includes the Bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak, but divided into Malays, Indonesians, Philipinos etc and into Muslims, Christians etc, by outside influence, including colonialism, religion and politics.
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It is typical of the Christians that you gave then a foot, they want the yard. They will continually be pushing the envelope.
I hope they push the right button so that the melayus will unleash back – for something like the Ambons or Coptic Egyptians.
We need blood on the streets for another 50 years of peace. The time is nigh. Swing pendulum, swing!
MRSM Kalae Chepo 66/73
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Saudara MRSM,
I hope that you are not a Muslim. I don’t know what religion you profess.
I do not believe that a Muslim would be making such comments with violent overtones on a Friday. Calling for blood on the streets on a holy day. A day for sembahyang Jumaat.
Is this how you will pray? With anger, hatred and resentment in your heart? Will your God accept your prayers? Why not pray for the hearts of the “stubborn” Christian leaders to be touched? For them to realize that some kind of compromise would be the best solution in order that all parties may be satisfied.
What does your religion teach you?
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Kerajaan terpaksa melayan berbagai tuntutan dan desakan dari berbagai keadaan. Kesemuanya ini berlaku satelah kejatuhan populariti BN. Masyarakat menyedari mengapa itu berlaku. Walaupan pahit tetapi ia perlu diulangi serta diperingatkan kembali. Itu semua berlaku gara2 sikap kerajaan dibawah kepimpinan Tun Abdullah Badawi. Dibawah kepimpinan beliau UMNO merasakan kusanya tak bolih digugat. Ia bolih melakukan apa2 sahaja sekendak hati. Yang membuatkan situasi menjadi panas lagi meluap ialah raayat merasakan mereka diperbodohkan terang terangan. Banyak kontrak2, projek2,peggangan2 keatas ekuiti dan kuasa syarikat berpindah tangan dengan cara yang ragu lagi mengelirukan. . Satu kerajaan yang menjanjikan keadilan, etika pengurusan dan tadbir urus bersih, kebangkitan semangat menentang rasuah sebaliknya menjadi A travelling company of commercial acrobats, clowns, and other entertainers which gives out trickery performances.
Nampaknya tiada penyudahan. Kerajaan kini terus terpaksa melayan kerenah2 baru yang kadang kala tidak menasabah dan tak masuk akal. Kerajaan terpaksa memberi terus memberi. Kerajaan kini bagaikan tertekan dibawah tektik Peras Ugut pihak2 tertentu walaupan dalam BN sendiri .Akhir2nya nanti setiap sumber itu akan kekeringan sedangkan matlamat yang diimpi2kan masih jauh dari pencapaian.
Ada pihak yang mahukan Malaysia dilanda huruhara dengan memainkan sentimen2 panas seperti meminta Perjanjian Malaysia di kaji semula. Memanas2kan raayat dengan niat mahu meminda, mengubah dan memansuhkan Perlembagaan Malaysia . Apa ISA itu tak bolih pakai ke? Pada saya ini semua terjumlah kepada High Treason…the crime of betraying one’s country by attempting to bringdown the sovereign or government.
Bagi mereka2 yang meminta raayat merusuh dan memperotes besar2an untuk menjatuhkan kerajaan seperti yang berlaku diTimur Tenngah. Apa akan terlepas begitu saja?
DiSingapura perkara2 seumpama ini bukan sahaja tidak akan berlaku malah mengucapkannya sahaja kepada unum dengan cara yang terbuka sudah menjadi satu kesalahan. KDN harus lebih mantap dan Pejabat Pendakwaraya harus labih berkesan.
Garis2 segala pensempadan semua perkara serta aspek hakusnya harus bukan sahaja dapat dimengertikan malah dikuatkuasakan. SAYA AMAT SAYANGKAN MALAYSIA
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Tempawan,
Good to see you participate in the debates here. Especially if you put out arguments in a reasonable manner and not using indiscriminate words touching on the sensitivities of one community or other. But I observe that many readers often disagree with you in their replies and rating of your comments, including those who appear passionate about the history of this country, the position of Islam in the Constitution, and such. Me included, I must say.
For example, you argument “religion/ideology is futile and waste of time, divides mankind and create animosity and mayhem” is a non starter. You mean just discard religion? No, surely not. Surely you are more intelligent than that. Be practical, man. People have been having religion for thousands of years. You just have to address the problems connected with it. And do so rationally.
Who says “it is not the peninsular christians who are clamouring for the right to use the “A” word”? Who are the big bosses among the Christians and where are they located if not in the Peninsular? Who says Bumis in Sabah are “clamouring” for Bibles in Malay with the term Allah? Surely the Bumis know the word Tuhan since before the White Christian missionaries came to Sabah and Sarawak? And they would have been happy with that word. For God’s sake they and none of us in this region knew the word Allah before Islam came. But animists they may be, they would have their Tuhan in other forms and have used the word Tuhan even before the Christians came.
Remember, the Bumis in Sabah and Sarawak belong to the Rumpun Melayu originating from the Gugusan Pulau Pulau Melayu (Malay Archipelago) some 5,000 years ago and their languages are part of the 1,200 languages of the Rumpun Melayu that linguistic experts since Captain Cook have recorded, compared and analysed as being in the same “Rumpun”, since the mid 19th Century until now – read the book Tamadun Alam Melayu published by the Historical Society of Malaysia in 2009.
Surely the Bumis are more familiar with the Malay word Tuhan compared to the Arabic word Allah that came only with the advent of Islam in this country in the 13th Century.
You must have read the many-times published argument that the fact that “they have used the malay bible imported from neighbouring malay country” and that country “does not have issues with the “A” word for many generations” is not valid here. We are not in “that Malay country”. We are in Malaysia where Islam is the official religion, so clearly stated in the Constitution and, when the Muslims had sufficient education and adequate travels to Sabah and Sarawak (which became part of Malaysia only in 1963) and realized the use of the “A” Bibles, they took exception and the matter was addressed accordingly. Why the intransigence, when you all can use the word Tuhan? We know the answer and let that question be rhetorical, unanswered for the time being.
But when you say, “unfortunately, the closed and narrow mindset of the muslm community in peninsular who lords over everyone else worse than what the colonial british did, are forever seeking issues to dominate and pillage”, you are crossing the line. That’s not nice to do so. I can write yards to show your lack of wisdom – note that I haven’t even used the word stupid. Others, too, can retaliate, and where does that lead us to? Again, leave that as a rhetorical question.
But you are just being nasty and mischievous when saying “the non-bumi christians will not use bahasa bible as they have no use for the language which does not bring them any benefit nor prospect”. And I can’t stop those passionate about Bahasa Malaysia and the term Allah from leaving this last statement of yours rhetorical and lashing at you for saying those words indiscriminately.
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today, the dalai lama travel all over the world promoting peace and goodwill. but what was tibet like before the yellow commies took over?
the people in tibet was enslaved by the monks. those farmers and property owners who cannot afford to pay religious taxes, have their assets confiscated and jailed.
did noah, abraham, moses, jesus and mohamed preach about religion? i doubt it. they were here to warned us about religion. and that is why, in the koran, there are no rituals, but many historical facts.
one of the fact is that, in the end, very few will believe in the messengers, and the the evil ones will dominate and overwhelm, eventually in this world, except those who seek guidance, only from God, and God alone are the true believers.
Why must the translation of the koran be sanctioned and approve by the religious authority if they have nothing to hide. Is it to protect their “religion”.
Moses freed the jews from the clutches of pharoah, a chief priest and religionist. Abraham, which we should all emulate, refused to submit to the religion of his parents. Jesus was sent to stop the jewish religionist. Muslims will acknowledge if i were to say, none were successful. So what makes many think Mohamed triumphed? W hat if the reverse is true, the pagan arabs eventually succeeded and propagate their pagan beliefs worldwide?
coming back to al-kitab, the government’s recent announcement should be embraced by all, as it does not trample on the rights of any other religion. but the comments and objections by the mufti of selangor and perak is very dissapointing. the syariah cannot implement a law that forbid non-muslims from anything. syariah applies to muslims only.
the government should now go further, and allow muslims to convert or adhere to any beliefs they are comfortable with. only then is freedom of faith truly applied as to conform to our constitution.
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Not many may be reading this as there are newer posts. But must reply, for the record.
Why oh why, tempawan, must you be rambling all sorts. What religion do you practise, if any? Talk about the dalai lama promoting peace and goodwill but in the next breath you use the words “yellow commies”?
You doubted if noah, abraham, moses, jesus and mohamed preach religion. And rambled “they were here to warned us about religion”. Wat r u talk, man? And wat u mean “in the koran … one of the fact is that, in the end, very few will believe in the messengers .. and God alone are the true believers”. Who tell you all these, what book or kitab have you been reading? Are you nuts or somfing?
Aiyoyo, thick skull. People already point out for you to read the blog JMD referred to, man. All the reasons have been given, with thorough research and authorities quoted. You should instead put out arguments to the allegation that you people have sinister motive in wanting to use the term “Allah” when “Tuhan” fits well your Trinity of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Allah is an Islamic word and refers to the One And Only God. The Christian Arabs use the word Allah but it’s because it’s an Arabic word. In Malaysia, the word Allah is Islamic, the Malay word Tuhan is general and can be used by anybody.
I’m afraid your other arguments are balderdash. You may preach to Christians but not to the Muslims and certainly not in here.
Do realize that you are seditious in saying “the government should … allow muslims to convert ..”. What “freedom of faith truly applied as to conform to our constitution” when you don’t even know or acknowledge that Islam is the official religion in this country as clearly spelt out in the Constitution. You are way out of line, man. You are even a nut.
For the record.
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Bersetuju dengan pandangan video seks Anwar telah menenggelamkan perihal alKitab ini. Padahal ini membawa kepentingan yang lebih utama kepada kita.
Bersetuju juga dengan cadangan agar pendapat di laman-laman blog berkenaan tuntutan melampau pihak Kristian dalam menangani hal al-Kitab dibawa ke dalam siaran suratkhabar, agar lebih ramai rakyat dapat melihat perangai beberapa kerat pihak Kristian yang semakin tamak dan semakin tidak bertimbang rasa.
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Use the words ‘stubbornness’, ‘arrogantly threatened’, ‘spun’ on the Christians?
‘They forgot that even the Quran are stamped by the authorities.’
Well you have to see the reason why the Quran have to be stamped VS what they are doing to the bibles. Do the gov really want to ensure only the genuine Arkitab are sold in the market and that you don’t get cult messages selling different editions not vet by the home ministry department?
And the gov imposed new rules (stamp) without discussing with the relevant group? You didn’t have a problem with that?
Not withstanding there has been an agreed rule for Christian publications – which the gov happily to ignore… And again you didn’t have a problem with that…
Who exercised arrogance to the full in this incident?
Talking about Motive… you can’t tell if they have other motives of doing so, only HE can. At the same time you have to understand who is the victim, and who is at the wrong.
interest enough… there are enough bloggers writing posts to attack the Christians. Does that tell you anything about motive? Certainly they are doing ‘what they can’ in national building….
You can slap the Christians on their both cheeks, but you can’t stop the Christians to voice up what’s right and what’s wrong.
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Hi Eng,
I believe stubbornness, arrogantly threatened and spun are exactly the right word for the people in the Catholic Christians authority bodies. Did I say this about the Christians as a whole? Read it again.
Of course we want to see the genuine AlKitab in the market. The same reason we want to see the genuine Quran in the market. Do we want all Tom Dick And Harry to publish their own versions of AlKitab and Quran?
What’s the big fuss then? Since there is such fuss by the Catholic authorities, surely there is a motive.
Please placate your religious leaders to do the right thing. Thank you.
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Malaysian constitution give every religion the freedom of religion. Nobody can say what, when or where to it. The muslims in Malaysia should open up their minds to changes and learn to adapt to other religion and races. The muslims has no right to question the christain and vise verse. Respect each others religion. If you cant, then it better to keep your mouth shut and hands down.
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great words. better be prepared to practice what you preach .. it goes both ways, bro, that’s all I can say 😉
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Nesh
🙂 apparently the “constitutional” defense seems to be very handy now eh?
But when it comes to the Malay and Bumiputra special right and the Bahasa Melayu position suddenly the “constitution” doesnt seems to apply anymore!?
Anyway with regard to the “constitutional freedom of religions”; Do you know that it is also in our constitution that ISLAM is this country OFFICIAL religion? So when the right of Islam (in Malaysia context) is in contrast with other religions such as the minority Christian in this case; which should take precedence???
Go back to the constitution; which one is the official religion?
And more of Nesh:
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The muslims in Malaysia should open up their minds to changes and learn to adapt to other religion and races.
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hehe…Again a case of a “pot calling keetle black”.
Shouldn’t it be the Christian (and others) who should have learn to open their minds and learn to adapt with the mainstream Muslim Malaysia!!??
What “open minded” are you talking about when one insist to use the word “ALLAH” while the alternative TUHAN is readily available!?
What “adapt” are you talking about when one cry of foul just because their holy book has to be stamped with the word “for Christian Only” as if it is subjected to an unthinkable hideous insult?
Have you been to western country lately mate?
Do you know what sort of insult the Christians get here in the western??
Do you know that mocking of JESUS is anywhere here; Do you know one advertisement of “healthy eating message” potray FAT JESUS endorsing a fast food outlet. Have you seen stripper stripping while wearing the cross? There even a version of 18+ bible with all those intimate stuff portrayed in details in there. You cant help but to equate them with those PORN books. And yes many many more mate.
Is this all not insulting??? No??? And you people (Christians and the subversive NONS) make a big fuss disproportionately about this KDN imposing a stamp of “for Christians Only” as if it is anything at all!!?? 🙂
You people used to praise the western a lot, freedom of expression la, proponent of human right, equal oppurtunities…. bla bla bla…..
Now why dont you people follow the open mindedness of your fellow western that you mostly adore as well???
And by the way, most people here in the western country are exponentially fast in leaving the “Christians”. Most of the younger generations generally “atheist”. You can see only a handful of old people in the churches every Sunday. And guess what some of the churches has even been abandon because nobody attend them anymore and has been converted to mosque!
So yes; tell your Christian missionary to go back to the western which is more critical than in the Tanah Melayu. Tak payah nak sibuk sibuk in my beloved Tanah Melayu ok.
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oi, official religion jkat malaysia ni apa?
Hindu?
Buddha?
TokKetayapPutih?
Patutnya korang la adopt to MAJORITY religion and races. Budus…
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Since I’m already here replying to Ronnie above, I’d venture a reply to this one as well.
This is the problem when one does not read the Constitution in its totality, or choose only the clause(s) that suit on’e particular interest. “True, Malaysian constitution give every religion the freedom of religion.” But everybody “can say what, when or where to it” (whatever exactly you mean), because the Constitution also says that Islam is the official religion of the country. Surely some credence must be given to that. There must be some strong reasons for Islam being enshrined in the Constitution as the official religion of the country.
Also true that “The muslims in Malaysia should open up their minds to changes” but to “learn to adapt to other religion and races” does not mean allowing others to climb over their heads.
The muslims do have a right to question the use of the Islamic terminology “Allah”. You need to “Respect each others religion”. Also agree with you that “If you cant, then it better to keep your mouth shut and hands down.”
Don’t mean to be antagonistic, but merely defending the use of the Islamic word “Allah”.
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Question : Why must the Al-Kitab be stamped when all these years there never have been done so ? It is different from Al Quran where such a procedure have been in place.
Question : If they want to stamp, why don’t they inform the owner of these Al-Kitab before doing so ? The authorities have not right to just stamp anything as they wish as they are not the owner.
Question: The bumi Christians in Sabah & Sarawak has been using the Al-Kitab for as long as they can remember. Why the sudden change in rules?
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Rather late in asking aren’t you, old chap? The post is now two behind the latest.
To show that we don’t persecute Christians by abandoning their questions unanswered, let me just say: read JMD’s post above and the post he referred us readers to. Plus the comments which provide more answers to your questions.
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Dear Ronnie April 7 9.43am,
As in my blog post comment, I will turn the other cheek to your comment on my Catholicness, seeing that you are not.
You have not rebutted my stand that the opposition symphatisers have infiltrated and as can be plainly seen, considerable influence in the decisions and actions of the Christian community.
You know what Ronnie? I am beginning to have doubts about you, the Jesus believer.
I have come to the conclusion that you are a typical opposition symphatiser.
With mild manners but subtly having an ulterior motive, infiltrating this blog via the comment section, with your propaganda.
By your numerous comments I can substantiate what I am stating now.
So, unless and until you deny that the opposition has taken a foothold in the Christian community, I will not see it fit to respond to your good self any further.
Dear JMD,
Thank you for allowing the space for my response.
Best regards
Freddie
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You have not been reading my comments carefully nor understand fully the issue at hand. You have already made up your mind on things and so I rest my case with you. Let us agree to disagree and remain a brother in Christ. I am sorry if I have sinned against you with my words. Forgive me for that. It is true I am just an ordinary believer in Christ and I am also disgusted with politics in my country today.
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Dear Ronnie,
Still sweet talking and politely insulting. A typical opposition trait. You have affirmed my conclusion.
If you had denied, I would have given you evidence straight in your face. But you cannot.
Since you cannot deny that the opposition is deeply entrenched in Christian Communities, I too rest my case.
Thank you JMD for your kind indulgence.
Regards
Freddie
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Buka quran, baca, fahamkan cover to cover, know your role and live prosper
Then eventually all these insecuritiy issues will die by itself, and by then even the opposition wont have much to say abt it.
Buat research quran pun jarang ape hal la plak nak sibuk sgt pasal kitab agama lain or what they want to call their god?
So sad la everytime i read abt this issue
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No wonder lah you are disgusted and sad when reading about this issue. You have not read much, man.
Read lah the blog JMD referred you to. There are several articles there based on a thorough research, quoting several authorities, using sound arguments.
You have no clue what the issue actually is, do you, yet try to be a wise old man giving advice knowing not what people are talking about. Or you are a Christian pretending to be a Muslim wise man.
Read, man, read. Don’t make a fool of yourself.
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Yes i have read them, and no im not a christian trying to sound like a wise old man. (belum ape2 dah syak aku ni kristian, adoi… The fact is, some of the people manipulating the issue are muslims as well)
Now what you need to do is buka al quran, and baca (tanpa lagu mendayu2) and understand the message
No more debates, lets focus on things that’ll make this country a more productive one, like housing prices, car prices, quality of our hospital services
Make no mistake i enjoy reading jmd’s articles, just not on this issue, just shows how nuts people can go over religion, and im talking abt both aides of the divide
If you turn petty things into an issue, be emotional abt trivial things, of course la ade hidden hands trying to manipulate the situation (points to anwar and geng)
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just thought u guys’d like to know what was being issued around in FB in the light of the coming election in S’wak
http://www.facebook.com/notes/kami-rakyat-sarawak-mahu-taib-berundur/sib-open-letter-to-all-christians-in-sarawak-to-vote-wisely-on-april-16/207807569238767
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You know what, guys ? Invite Sarawak and Sabah to leave the Federation. Change Malaysia to Tanah Melayu. Redefine/clarify what exactly Christians can/cannot do in Tanah Melayu. Give the Christians 3 months option to choose whether they want to migrate to Sabah/Sarawak. Then everyone will be happy. Then JMD and geng con go back to blogging about the liwat (eh wot happend to Saiful..) and the video.
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If anyone of you have been to either hell or heaven and came back, then you know what you are talking when touching on the subject of religion. Having said that, the better option is for Sarawak and Sabah to leave the Federation. Do we really need the Semenanjung people to govern us..The answer is NO.
We have better piece of mind being out of the Federation and you all can brag about religion. Look at Brunei and Singapore! The people there are happy.
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