Miscellaneous / MUST READ

A question for The Herald

I have a question for The Herald.

If it is widely known now that the name of God in Christianity is Elah/Elohim/Yahweh, then is it not incumbent for The Herald to rectify the mistakes made in the translation of an English bible to Malay?

We do know that nowhere in the original bible mentioned the word ‘Allah’ in any of its verses.

In other words, isn’t it important for The Herald to make this corrective measure so that their followers in East Malaysia will not be further confused and deviated from the original Christian name for God (which is not Allah)?

Afterall, before Christianity came into existence in East Malaysia, the natives there such as the Bidayuhs and Ibans called their God as “Tampa” and “Petara” respectively.

Hence, I guess it should be the responsibility of The Herald to clear the air pertaining the religious rites of their followers. Shouldn’t they?

I bet “Allah Ta’ala” usage in Christian rites won’t be as soothing to the ears of a devout Christian as compared with the usage of Elah/Elohim/Yahweh. What do you think?

That is why, The Herald should in all its efforts, propagate the use of the correct name of God in their Malay bible, according to the Christian beliefs.

Which is more important to The Herald?

The correct name of their God needs to be put in the Malay bible, thus upholding the sanctity of Christianity?

Or,

To remain stubborn and hold steadfast over the mistranlations of the conniving early colonialists and the gullible Malay translators?

So how Tan Sri?

Just asking.

Tan Sri Murphy Pakiam (The Herald)

116 thoughts on “A question for The Herald

  1. That is so true Jebat.

    Correcting the mistranslation is the priority of The Herald. It maintains the purity of Christianity. I for one am aghast that the term Allah is used by the Christians there (no offence to the Muslims reading here). The Lord abhors hypocrites and I think The Herald is pursuing a cause that is shrouded in hypocrisy from the start.

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  2. I think it is none of anyone’s business how others refer “The God” as.
    I think the people of islam should first study why they have a high marriage failure rate (over 22000 annually), education system failure (graduates without jobs), falling income after taking into account of inflation and falling ringgit, etc, etc.
    Despite all these failures, the govenrment spend nearly RM600 million building two exquisite airconditioned mosque in Putrajaya, the new one costing RM337 million. What economic benefit does this mosques brings in?
    Mankind was suppose to serve “The One God” and not religion. God can defend Himself, but religion cannot and that is why these imposition of defending muslim rights come in.
    The order in the koran is clear.
    You will be judged by your deeds alone. And for the rightoeous, there is no fear. If we see injustice, then confront the evil doers, not by agression, as God, He hates the agressive and ther arrogants.
    And many in this blog are aggressive and arrogants.

    JMD : Ah there you go, being racist towards the Malays, as if all the vices in Malaysia are only done by the Malays alone. Have you checked other evil deeds done by non Muslims? Or did you choose to be blinded by this fact due to your strong hate towards Islam and Malays? It is unfortunate you chose to follow this racial derogatory line in giving comments. Being malicious with all your comments before this shows what a bigot you are. Even after all the explanation from the readers about Islam and how you had twisted the Quran to follow your line of thought, you still spew forth your aggressiveness in regurgitating and repeating your insidious remarks. How incorrigible are you?

    Yes, we will be judged by God for all our deeds. Have you checked yours? Thank you.

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      • Indeed i have replied to JMD, about surah Al-ikhlas. I have stated many time before that God, the Almighty does not need our help in defending those who humiliate Him.

        “Praise God who has never taken a son for Himself, nor does He have a partner to rule, nor does he need anybody to protect Him from humiliation. “(17:111)

        and this

        “And We have sent down to you the Book with truth, authenticating what is present of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.” (The Message 5:48)

        So you see, i follow not religion and religious scholars. I folow the Qur’an.
        You all have a dispute on the word, “Allah” and God has answered it very clearly that e does not require anyone to defend Him.
        And if we have dispute amongst us, God will inform us regarding our dispute in the next life.
        Our work in this world is to do good and to instill justice and righteousness. And we will be judged by our deeds alone. We will not be judged by the number of religious rituals we do.

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        • truthseeker,
          Yes, follow the Al-Quran.. but not in own interpretation. What you’ve just done is interpreting by your own thoughts without proper guidance.

          The scholars have been studying it for years, but you on the other hand in a way insulted them by just put some verse from Al-Quran to justify your arguments.

          If you really follow Al-Quran, my friend, by now you should already accepted the Oneness of Allah, bewitness the only God that is Allah and bewitnessed that Muhammad (pbuh) is His messenger.

          Do you?

          ~ OnDaStreet
          http://ondastreet.wordpress.com

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          • Are you saying that you trust the religious scholars above “The God”. Did not the qur’an mention you to “READ”? That only God can guide us?. And of course, Prophet Mohammed is the messenger. But he is one of many as stated below :-

            The foundation of a true Muslim No preference over any special messenger

            2:136 Make it known to them, “We trust God and what was transmitted to us and what was transmitted to Abraham – and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and whatever was transmitted to their offspring and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to all the prophets from their Lord. We never make any distinction with any one from them – and to Him we are at peace (Muslims).

            Peace!

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            • truthseeker,
              One of pillars of “iman” is to believe in Kitabullah. Therefore, I believe and follow what is stated inside the Al-Quran.

              However, to interprete Al-Quran as I pleased is not part of the good way in understanding Al-Quran. There are set of skills required in interpreting Al-Quran.

              However, since you have quoted Al-Ikhlas in one of your comments, do accept the Oneness of Allah? And I supposed, when you follow Al-Quran, you should already know and accepted that Muhammad (pbuh) is His messenger.

              You have not answered my question.. After following Al-Quran and really have the skill set to interprete Al-Quran as you pleased..do you accept and bewitnessed Allah is the Only God and Muhammad is His Messenger?

              ~ OnDaStreet

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            • Truthseeker,
              I quote from you,
              “The foundation of a true Muslim No preference over any special messenger”

              Who, if you may clearly point out to me around here, is making preference over any special messenger? Stop being evasive.

              BTW If I don’t trust religious scholars, then certainly I don’t trust you to give me sermon.

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    • oy, truthseeker… hahaha… you talk about muslims, then jebat replys about malays instead… lol

      since them bumiputera Xtians over there have been using the ‘Allah’ name for centuries without problemo, we suppose the name itself is quite soothing to their ears. But not so soothing to mr. jmd & friends, who only recently learned about this fact… lol

      Amazing, these fellows who want to dictate to others on how to pray… :p

      JMD : Menang sorak kampung tergadai Jonny? Somebody is unfairly ridiculing your race and you cheered them on? Is it so soothing in the ears when Christians in Egypt and Turkey are replacing the word Allah in the bible to the more relevant Elohim?

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    • Kudos JMD. it’s your another victory. you, through your blog articles and counter-comments, have managed to expose another racist bigot – “truthseeker” who apparently seeks nothing but hatred.

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      • y is it that any1 who has a different point of view is always called ‘another racist bigot”?

        i’m not getting involved in this whole allah/non-allah issue. i’m just making an observation from the various blogs n comments i’ve been reading.

        what is also amusing is whn ppl start to get vindictive and spew all kinds of 4 letter words and symbols at each other. dis always happens when they cannot argue the issue

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    • On the count high divorce rate and unemployment rate among muslim, I have studied that.

      The 22000 divorcees remarried and the unemployed grads got jobs eventually. They have a happy family and the grads driving the Personas to work.

      Dgn Berkat Allah SWT Yang Maha Penyayang dan Maha Pemurah

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  3. Salam JMD,

    Yep, wanted to ask them the same thing…

    Nak mempertahankan hak penggunaan selama 300 tahun ATAU memperbetulkan kesilapan teknikal yang telah berusia 300 tahun supaya tidak terus berulang. ?

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  4. Cuma ada 2 negara sahaja di dunia yang ada Perlembagaan Negaranya yang unik. Malaysia dan Maldives. Perlembagaan Malaysia mendefinasikan bangsa Melayu sebagi beragama Islam, begitu juga Perlembagaan Maldives definasikan Maldivian as Muslim.

    Peruntukan istemewa ini menjadi batu penghalang besar kepada pendakyah kristian dalam agenda sulit mereka di malaysia. Semakin masa berjalan semakin mereka tertekan.

    Realitinya sekarang populasi malaysia terdiri daripada Melayu (60%) dengan kadar kelahiran 4% setahun, dan bukan Melayu (40%) dengan kadar kelahiran cuma 2% setahun. Dianggarkan pada tahun 2030 Melayu menjadi semakin dominan dengan jumlah populasi 80% begitu juga agama Islam.

    Oleh itu pendakyah perlu pilih strategi paling drastik seawal dan secepat yang mungkin untuk mengkristiankan sebanyak mungkin orang melayu supaya definasi istemewa dalam perlembagaan boleh terlerai dan akhirnya walaupun bangsa Melayu nanti 80% tetapi pegangan agama mereka seimbang.

    Apakah ‘marketing’ nama Allah ini strategi drastik itu?

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  5. The big question is: what is the intention of The Herald and others in insisting on the use of the word Allah when the word Tuhan is sufficient and aptly refers to the Trinity concept of The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost?

    The linguistic and the historical perspectives have been given in numerous blogs including here and “Pure Shiite” blogspot.

    That the Muslims have objected to the use of the word only in recent times does not mean that it was right for them to use it. In Sarawak and Sabah, the word used to be applied mainly among congregations in the interior of the states. KDN acted upon receiving various complaints from the Muslim public and banned its use. Why the intransigence, to the extent of bringing it to court which produced repercussions as have been seen in the last few weeks?

    Tun Dr Mahathir had M. Pakiam conferred the Tan Sriship presumably for the latter’s role in maintaining goodwill and harmony among the religious groups in the country. We now expect him to show his worth as a Tan Sri and as a responsible leader of his group to diffuse the current rather tense situation. He has the power to do so as it was The Herald that brought the case to court. He has the authority to do so as he is the Head of his flock in this country.

    Failing that, the question must be asked again and again – what is their real intention in insisting on using the word Allah?

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  6. Jebat, i ve written about ths in my blog and i ve quoted some explanations by christians leaders and scholars on ths issue –

    I would like to share a number of interesting thoughts by Pastor Brutus Balan of a Baptist Church in Australia in the Facebook (FB). I hope he doesn’t mind.

    In his posting Brutus Balan said,

    1. In today’s religious context, the word ‘Allah’ is a word loaded with Islamic theology. The God of the Christian Bible Yahweh-Elohim from Genesis to Revelation is a trinitarian mono God. IT is not a creation of the Church but it is a inspired revelation. Its maths is hard to understand but it is the heart of John 3: 16 and Jesus’ life will be nonsensical as much as His sacrifice for sinful and doomed humanity if the second person of the Trinity did not incarnate in the human flesh. The Christian Gospel is based on this redemptive revelation of the triune Godhead. The Quranic concept of ‘Allah’ is in total opposition to this. There is NO similarity between them whatsoever.

    2. The early ‘Christian missionaries’, mostly Roman Catholics erred when they started to Christianize pagan words (jargon/terminology), concepts, icons, statues (Mother and child), festivals and celebrations (like Christmas/Easter) and included them as Christian so the ‘converts’ from the Christianized societies are not brought into a cultural vacuum. Therefore the word `Allah’ that pre-dates Islam, a word that was and is a non Hebrew word for a pagan deity was Christianized and retained among the middle Eastern converts and used in the Bible translation. This syncretism was followed in Asia with the use of the word, Allah among minority ethnic ‘converts’. It was wrong then and it is wrong now.

    for those who wants to explore further the opinions by Christians themselves, u may read them here –

    http://tunfaisal.blogspot.com/2010/01/it-was-wrong-then-and-it-is-wrong-now.html

    http://tunfaisal.blogspot.com/2010/01/pandangan-ikhlas-dan-rasional-seorang.html

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  7. It is mind bogling to see the insistence of some that Allah be allowed to be used in the bible. Some goes to the extend of justifying the terms Allah used during first bible translation in malay, some justifying it due to practices in the arabs world, some argues that if in indonesia is OK why not in malaysia. Some apologetic malays/muslims even concedes and agree that their people insecurity is the cause of the rejection in allowing Allah used in the bible etc.

    In all these instances, people choose to forget that at least in semenanjung, it is never practiced by the non muslims to call their god Allah. why is it important now to force this unto them? why the insistence on calling Allah as the ‘correct’ translation and why not go the full yard and make it consistent with all the old hebrew text? what is the agenda here? why insist that Allah in the bible is the same one in the Quran when you know without doubt that the muslims faith reject equivocally calling jesus as god/tuhan/allah? why Allah and why not Yahweh fi you insist to be correct? Is it because using Allah is easier for the malays/muslims to accept the idea of Allah in Jesus?

    All of the above only shows that right or wrong is not an issue here. If they can make a case supported by the legal system, they will question it and expand their rights. Question the constitution, the extend of islaimic laws, and now the use of the very terms of god in the holy books. why not, when there are ample number of malays/muslims who would be willing to support this ‘fairness’, transparency, injustice that they suffer, … and blame it on the ruling authority at the same time.

    This is happening now more often because the malays are divided. The others are taking advantage of the sdituation. No ministers is willing to say the right thing without thinking of the political and vote consequences. Right or wrong is not the issue. The issue is which one will win votes.

    Are we not capable to think beyond politics? Is accepting that government can be changed if they do not perform, then religion too is subject to change? People and society sensitivities are old and what ever the court allows we have the right to insist? Too much politicking and at what cost? The moment this ‘Allah’ issue was raised, you immediately hear one party accuses the other of pilitical mileage. What about basic decency and what has been accepted as an accepted norms? This mindless insistence on change will eat the very fabric of our nation.

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  8. you got the wrong guy. you should be asking the Menteri at JPM Datuk Seri Nazeri Aziz the protector of christians and all its beneficiary.
    no pun intended for the christians. it’s just another hypocrite in the muslim world who think he is also the caliph of Islam (sultan) in malaysia.

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  9. Interesting and contradictory isn’t it? In the the first instant the Christian hierarchy introduced a foreign and alien name ‘Allah’ to its flock who already have their own name for god and now it insist that this name is indigenous to them. Again it is hard not to suspect a deceitful intent.

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  10. Even the American Right Wings Christian movement would oppose strongly since they are against the God of the “axis of evil”. How can they share their God’s name the same name as Saddam Hussein’ God?

    Tan Sri Pakiam should educate these Americans that they have actually killed fellow Christian God worshippers. Or maybe Tan Sri Pakiam should be in the middle east and promote Allah to the Zionist as well. Will earn him Noble prize.

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  11. Yup. Herald should do the Christians-Malay-Bible-Readers a favour by CORRECTING the wrong translation… Once upon a time, humans thought that the world is flat.. but now we know better. Is Herald still going to insist that the world is flat?

    In Webster’s New World Pocket Dictionary (4th Edition):
    Al-lah = God: Muslim name

    Sudah terang lagi bersuluh..

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  12. Hello Grace,

    If I am not mistaken, one of the ten commandments said thou shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. The Herald is doing just that.

    I am glad a Christian like you can see the hidden agenda by The Herald.

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  13. My questions are quite simple:

    What is the basis for demanding exlusive usage of the particular God word when:-

    1. That is an Arabic and not Malay word that was long in usage to refer to a generic God entity about 500 years BEFORE the advent of Islam in 632 AD?

    2. The Arab Muslims in the Middle East themselves have no objection to Arab non-Mulsims using that God word?

    3. That God word has long been used by non-Mulsims and accepted by Muslims in Egypt, Indian, Indonesia, USA, Europe, Britain, China etc., and in the Sikh religion as well for a very, very long time?

    4. That God word has been used in E.M’sia for over 400 years by non-Muslims?

    Who is out of step with the Muslim diaspora and the rest of the world – the World or some M’sian Muslims who I think are in the minority?

    dpp
    We are all of 1 race, the Human Race

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    • Dpp,

      u sudah baca link kat SatD punya blog kaa? Kan die sudah letak macam2 untuk orang baca dan nilai. Pergilah check whatever facts and infos he has presented there…

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      • generic God entity???? DPP, are you serious?how ignorant of you!

        Allah is the god in Islam, the name of god..not a generic term, if you want generic term here, Ilah means god in arabic.

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        • Allah is the arabic term for “The God”. You can refer to “The God” in anyway you like and in any language. For “The God” is omniscient and onipresent. He understands what is in your heart and is near you. Always.

          If anyone had misused the word “Allah”, that is for God to Judge and not us mortals. He is the most knowledgable, The Judge. Do you not trust God in this matter?

          Our lives in this world is to strive and for goodness and shun away from evil. To those who do good, the reward will be on the next life. To those who serve partners other than God, then prepare for a miserable ending.

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          • truthseeker (mencari kebenaran),
            It is indeed Allah is an arabic terms.

            But here in Malaysia, “Tuhan” is the right direct translation of God. “Allah” is referred as a special name.

            Do you study well during your school days?

            ~ OnDaStreet (Di Atas Jalanan)

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      • Its the customary exclusive rights of the Malay Muslim in this part of the country as enshrined in the Constitution i.e the special rights.

        Customary meaning only by Malay/Muslim Bumiputra use in Bahasa in the Semenanjung.

        Customary also to the Muslim and Non Muslim Bumiputra use in Bahasa in Sabah and Sarawak only

        Both respects the other’s rights accordingly without interfering.

        On your points,

        1. Ibrahim a.s predates the Arabs and he was Muslim. So why you stop just about 500 years before 632. AD and assumed its an Arab word rather a name circa that time?

        2. the Arab Muslim was being nice to their fellow Arab Non Muslim to their detriment.

        3. The God name was first used by the Muslim Ibrahim and later accepted and corrupted by the non Muslim. Its the sovereign rights of those nations you mentioned. Malay/Muslim here practices non interference of other nations rights in their own realm.

        There is no Muslim diaspora and the rest of the world is out of step with Islam and you are a minority in Malay/Muslims.

        We are many races and nations and customs respecting each other.

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  14. Dear Tan Sri Pakiam ;

    Why don’t the Christians used the name of GOD as called by Jesus himself ; Jesus did not call his GOD; ‘God’,’Yahweh’;’Allah’;”Tuhan’ or “Deos” but called “ELI”.

    My suggestion for all Christians to adopt a single unique God ‘name instead of changing GOD’s name based on language used of the Christians. For that matter, do you have the right to change one’s name or GOD’s name based on your whim and fancy? If it is your son or daughter; you may have the right to change their name until your daughter and son’s age reached their puberty.However, for the supreme being upstairs, no human not even prophet or pope have the right to change God’s name.

    However, if you insisted to use “Allah”; my suggestion to you;

    1. Get yourself circumcised, go to to the nearest mosque and proclaimed “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah”; We Muslims will welcome you with open arm and will regard you as our brother.

    2. If it is difficult for you to convert to Islam, we will be alright if you join Christianity – Church of Unitarian sect. We will regard you as “People of the Book’ as the Unitarians like the Jews and Muslims believed in the ‘oneness’ of God.

    3. If you find it difficult for you to change your sect; I think it will be also alright for you to print your newsletter with Allah in it; Our humble request for you to restrict your circulation within your community with the sentences”For Christians Only” shall be clearly printed at the front cover of your newsletter.Fair request, isn’t it?

    We believe that our above request is very fair. As much we did value the harmonious relationship that we had enjoyed for the past centuries between the Muslims and Christians..we also value the that Allah shall be solely for Muslims only.Not that we are stingy to share with you; we are deeply concern that you will blasphemy Allah.

    We are worry that some hot-headed Muslims will also take the advantages to cause havoc in this country once they noticed that you and your followers have blasphemised and ridiculed Allah.

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    • “If you find it difficult for you to change your sect; I think it will be also alright for you to print your newsletter with Allah in it; Our humble request for you to restrict your circulation within your community with the sentences”For Christians Only” shall be clearly printed at the front cover of your newsletter.Fair request, isn’t it?”

      this is what they hv been doing 4 d last 10 to 12 yrs. so it’s not a now happening thing. only became n issue in 2007 when home minister decided to ban the news letter bm section.

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        • nope. just stating a fact. since d ‘info’ pointed out by concerned muslim was wrong in the 1st place. can’t b having a discussion on wrong facts can we?

          i agree btw that it’s more appropriate 4 d christians 2 use the original names as in the bible, torah etc. 1 shouldn’t b translating god’s name.

          y is it that when some1 states a fact that others r uncomfortable with 1 is always called ‘racist bigot’? (lol)

          u c this is what i’ve been observing all around the blogs. that’s y ppl all get so upset with each other. it’s like, many ppl can’t discuss issues in a positive way.

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        • mumra, u r so amusing. so now u don’t agree with concerned muslim’s point 3 i.e. “Our humble request for you to restrict your circulation within your community with the sentences”For Christians Only” shall be clearly printed at the front cover of your newsletter.Fair request, isn’t it?”

          tat’s d only thing i was making my observation on – tat he was asking them to do something tat they were already doing. u guys just chose to read more into it.

          many malaysians i find (btw i m no racist bigot since this refers to al d races based on wat i’ve seen in yr blogs/comments) get so paranoid tat everything is attributed to racial bias. o, yes n rumors without sustantiation. hmmm…or mayb i m a racist bigot since this is only my m2h n i find u guys so enchantingly different.

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          • To Amused

            haha.. dont take it that bad, and I kinda like it when one finds me amusing and a bit enchanting all at the same time.

            Never did I display an agreement or disagreement to point 3, and I think you are just jumping the gun a bit there. Whether its fair, well maybe yes. Or maybe it would be better print as “Not For Muslim Consumption” or “This Literature is Contains Material Provocative to Muslims” or anything to that effect. That would be more direct warning to a Muslim not to venture at is own peril.

            I dont know much and what extent of restriction in the past on the issue, but its merely my INITIAL theory that there could be a breach in those years that resulted in this drama. If thats true, then its fair too that Home Minister demands the Herald to cease immediately its usage of the term/word/name.

            Being me, having the best of 4 world views past down by my folks, I let a bit calm composed intuition/instinct take over the pre assessment of the situation at hand before exploring further.

            and SOMETIMES IF NOT MOST, THERE’S MORE TO THE PICTURE THAN MEETS THE EYE.

            I dont have a blog but I do comment a bit. If Im going to a racist bigot, I wonder to which race then.
            Appears you are being a wee bit presumptive.

            Maybe you think you are not racist bigot, but maybe you have not realise that you always were.

            Or maybe you could a big DISCREDIT to your own race, you never know.

            AH…RACIST BIGOTS … NOTHING MORE THAN JUST LIKE RUST THAT NEVER SLEEPS.

            I find you equally enchanting too, amusingly.

            Mumra Sleeps Like a Baby
            In Graha Damai Sentosa Alam

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  15. Dear JMD,

    I have perused the pros and cons of the Herald action in the all mediums and still hold to my position that the action is without merit.

    I fervently believe that the action is being pursued clandestinely by hidden hands.

    The action is

    Insensitive, frivolous, reckless, vexatious, irresponsible, callous, divisive,…………….

    No justification at all. None whatsoever.

    Thank you
    Freddie

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  16. Hello TRUTHSEEKER!

    Yes, I am now aggressive and I am also arrogant – thanks to people like you… And I think JMD’s comment on you is too soft.

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  17. This Paki@ Al Pakiam should be revoked from using Tan Sri’s title. He had betrayed the Yang Di Pertuan Agung and done something disgusting to the Yang Di Pertuan Agung. The recent lawsuit by him at the Federal Court to challenge the goverment shows that he had no respect to the Yang Di Pertuan Agung who acts as a Ruler and caretaker of Islamic Religion.

    To my opinion the Jemaah Pangkuan Negara has to do something relevent to this situation.

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  18. Religion are for the arabs, the christians, the jews and pharoah.

    These people will forever serve the submit to their religion and their priests and religious scholars.

    But the Qur’an asked mankind to read the koran and seek guidance only from “The God”.

    If you serve “The God” alone, you will find the present squabbles about the word”Allah”a trivial matter. This matter will be decided in the next life. Let this rest and let mankind be free to use whatever word he desires.

    @ JMD

    The muslims in Malaysia have not shown any proof that the word “Allah” are for the usage of muslims alone. The keepers of the royal household and the religious authorities and muslims cannot simply come up with a decision based on the “whims and fancies”.

    I have no hate for muslims in this country. What I hate is their arrogant attitude towards others.

    Also, show me proof that malays have been duped into roman catholicism by reading the “Herald” in their thousands.

    Show me proof that being a muslim automatically qualifies you to paradise in the next life. And show me proof that being a matyr qualifies a suicide bomber to 72 virgins.

    Once the above is cleared, then maybe you will all realise that your belief is based on conjecture and hearsay.

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    • Truthseeker,

      Apa yang you merepek nih?? Bila masa pulak orang kata Muslim automatically go to heaven just because they are Muslim? Where in anywhere did anyone said that?
      Stop playing dumb

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      • He sounds like an atheist, wonder why he soooooo busy messing around with religious matters.

        Hati busuk perhaps, enjoying people fighting each others.

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        • To think that his first initial comments were ” I think it is nobody’s business..”.
          Now it is like his business to tell people that it is not their business.
          A case of “legend in his own mind”.

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      • Truthseeker

        “The muslims in Malaysia have not shown any proof that the word “Allah” are for the usage of muslims alone. The keepers of the royal household and the religious authorities and muslims cannot simply come up with a decision based on the “whims and fancies”.”

        1. The Muslim have shown it. They shown it to another Muslim only.

        “I have no hate for muslims in this country. What I hate is their arrogant attitude towards others.”

        2. I dont hate Muslims either and most of them are courteous and affable people.

        “Also, show me proof that malays have been duped into roman catholicism by reading the “Herald” in their thousands.”

        3. Its probably in some file with the Government due to internal security issue. What I heard, all of them realised the y being duped.

        “Show me proof that being a muslim automatically qualifies you to paradise in the next life. And show me proof that being a matyr qualifies a suicide bomber to 72 virgins.”

        4. There was this blogger a non muslim who knew about it from his muslim GF who was taught about it by a pastor. There is no such thing as a pastor in Islam.

        Once the above is cleared, then maybe you will all realise that your belief is based on conjecture and hearsay.

        Your belief is my belief. I realised that.

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    • truthseeker,
      You’ve said:

      “Religion are for the arabs, the christians, the jews and pharoah.”

      Huh? Do you realise that you’ve just mixed up the race and religion in your words? Arabs, Jews and Pharoah (?) is race, but Christian is a faith/religion.

      And by your own words, if religion are for arabs, the christians, the jews and pharoah.. what are those for other parts of the world that is not arabs, the christians, the jews and pharoah?

      Is Hindu is a religion for some? Is not Budhha a religion for some? Is not Scientology a faith for some?

      And as for the basic argument here WHY muslims in Malaysia opposed against the move is the motive behind the translation. You can preach what you believe, but not in the sense of making others be confused. The muslims who fought fight for those who are weak in their faith.

      That is the whole point. It is not about arrogant muslims.. but as a reaction towards arrogant move of others.

      ~ OnDaStreet
      http://ondastreet.wordpress.com

      Like

      • You cannot help those that do not understand.

        “If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of the God. They only follow conjecture, and they only guess.”
        (Q6:116)

        God asked us to think and not to blindly follow others.

        “And no one could attain fidelity, except by the grace of the God and (He) would place filth on those who do not think” (Q.10:100)

        Peace!

        Like

        • truthseeker,
          You are diverting from your earlier comment. You’ve said:

          “Religion are for the arabs, the christians, the jews and pharoah.”

          And then in your follow up comments you just simply quoting verses from Al-Quran.

          Are you really in position to interprete as you pleased? And on what ground?

          ~ OnDaStreet

          Like

        • Truthseeker,

          But God also teaches us not to lie in His name. So its ok to lie I suppose? I’m guessing the mistranslations committed was done in good faith huh?

          Like

  19. JMD,

    If he has the sincerity, values the peace & harmony and respects the constitution of the country he calls home, he would go to sabah and sarawak and re-educate the christians there on how to properly address their Lord. If not, then we know what his true intentions are.

    Like

  20. Out of respect, Muslims don’t go parading to Christians that we believe that Jesus is a prophet and not God. But you bring this Allah issue to court and you couldn’t just have kept it in your own backyard. Are we asking too much that you respect our religion and not use our God’s name for yours? The intentions are clearly different in this situation though, I think the Catholics intention of using the word Allah as God is to spread their religion to the “unreached people”. You can’t blame us for being wary. Especially in these times when Islamophobia is so apparent.

    Adam

    Like

    • They are hoping that this controversy would raise enough interest among the Muslim to reach and read the Bible secretly.
      One way of reaching the enemy without them knowing.

      If the Muslim keeps mum about the issue, then the legal process favours them. Either way, they hope to meet their their objective i.e convert and over time diminish Islam and the Malay in this land.

      Now doesn’t the word “steadfast” means a lot? Its used many times in your Quran.

      Like

  21. Jebat,
    I found this blog elaborates on the issue that u wrote here. This blogger gave 17 different names of the Hebrew God that is known to the Christians.. a good piece.. pls. check..

    http://satuhala.blogspot.com/2010/01/gerhana-awal-2010.html

    They made a mistake and yet still they want to point their dirty finger on us for not being tolerance?!

    Non of the name mentioned by the blogger they can equate it to Allah.. so what are their motives?

    Another piece from him is that, ‘Allah for All’ slogan from PAS was something that they pick from the Christian movement slogan..

    http://satuhala.blogspot.com/2010/01/isu-nama-allah-kronologi-1.html

    do check pls…

    Like

  22. truthseeker,

    I think you are not seeking the truth when saying you think “it is none of anyone’s business how others refer “The God” as” when in the next breath you say Muslims “should first study why they have a high marriage failure rate … education system failure … falling income … falling ringgit, etc.” You are seeking to disrupt by bringing the issue of religion when talking about “these failures” in the social and ceconomic situation, aren’t you?

    What warped mentality have you talking about the economic benefits of airconditioned mosques in Putrajaya? You are not a Muslim judging from your spelling the word as Koran. You are demented and have skewed logic when saying “Mankind was suppose to serve “The One God” and not religion. God can defend Himself, but religion cannot”. What is this about God defending himself? Tell us about your God defending himself, will you? I don’t have to elaborate on this way out and hardly heard kind of statement.

    True, we will be judged by our deeds alone and I agree with JMD that you should ponder about yours. Are you not being agressive and arrogant yourself when you accuse others so but do not explain your statement?

    Like

    • My only wish is for people to understand the true meaning in the Qur’an. How? By reading and understanding it yourself.

      The internet frees many from the religious scholars who have been promoting deviation, from my understanding. It is in your interest, not mine, to find the true meaning of the message.

      “…O people of the Book, let us come to a common understanding between us and between you; that 1) we serve none except God, and 2) that we do not set up anything with Him, and 3) that none of us takes each other as patrons besides God….” (The Message 3:64)

      The above is very clear. The believers are forbidden to serve anything else except “The God”. Some people here serve their religion. Some serve their priests. You make up your mine whom you serve, as the eternity depends on what you decide.

      Peace!

      Like

      • Truthseeker,
        Interesting indeed when you’ve said:

        “My only wish is for people to understand the true meaning in the Qur’an. How? By reading and understanding it yourself.

        The internet frees many from the religious scholars who have been promoting deviation, from my understanding. It is in your interest, not mine, to find the true meaning of the message.”

        You’ve just simply over and over quoted verses in Al-Quran based on your own understanding and then it is up to other’s interest to find the true meaning of the message? So, yours isn’t that truth.. is it?

        ~ OnDaStreet

        Like

      • Truthsie

        Nice wish. My grandma reads too in fact memorise it. So if you wish, explain where she may misunderstood it. She likes to know what so different about the internet from what she learned from the scholars in pondok school back in the 20s. And to her is the creed “tiada Tuhan yg disembah melainkan Allah SWT dan Muhammad saw junjungan nya….

        So what say you? I can arrange you to meet her and there you can impress upon her you superior understanding of the Quran.

        Dont worry. She so scared of firecrackers.

        Like

  23. Mr truthseeker,

    What are you talking about, man, saying “Religion are for the arabs, the christians, the jews and pharoah” and such thing as “These people will forever serve the submit to their religion and their priests and religious scholars.” Have you read back what you have written? Do they sound having any sense?

    You are trying to belittle the Muslims in this country when saying “If you serve “The God” alone, you will find the present squabbles about the word”Allah”a trivial matter.” What do you mean when saying “This matter will be decided in the next life”? When you say “Let this rest and let mankind be free to use whatever word he desires”, you have no clue about the origin of the word “Allah”, the history of Islam in this country and the logic of the use of the word Allah by Muslims here, the availability and suitability of the “Tuhan” and the inconsistency of the word Allah that means the one and only when the Christians have the Trinity of The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

    You are oblivious to the many proofs, explanations and arguments that are stated in such blogs as this one and Pure Shiite. Or you refuse to accept such proofs and arguments? Yet you say “The keepers of the royal household and the religious authorities and muslims cannot simply come up with a decision based on the “whims and fancies”. Your are an irresponsible fellow, aren’t you?

    And you start talking nonsense including asking for “proof that being a muslim automatically qualifies you to paradise in the next life”, etc. Finally you tried to instigate and infuriate the Muslims by saying “your belief is based on conjecture and hearsay”. You are being disruptive and should be brought to book.

    Like

      • Seems like you are the one who is confused about the history of the religion of islam.

        prophet Mohamed preached goodness and justice and delivered the Qur’an for mankind. in it, there are verses such as this :-

        “Say: ‘Which is the greatest testimony?’ Say: ‘God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur’an that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!’ Say: ‘I do not bear witness!’ Say: ‘He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!’” (The Message 6:19)

        and this :-

        “’Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?’” Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.” (The Message 6:114 )

        There are many who serve their religion and forsake God. The above tells us to submit to God alone. And study the Qur’an to seek guidance.

        And please do not be angry. Allow your thoughts to be free of previous religious indoctrination. And do some very deep thinking.

        Like

        • Truthseeker,

          Still, after making comments that is nothing short of lying “Show me proof that being a muslim automatically qualifies you to paradise in the next life” which presupposes someone made such statement here, and knowing well nobody in blogroom ever claim so to such statement, you expect us not to be angry.

          Suppose someone made straight at you of being accessory to theft when they didn’t have proof and didn’t even notice your whereabouts prior to that, wouldn’t that pisses you off?

          And you shamelessly trying to play saint around here…

          Like

        • Truthseeker,
          May I ask.. when you wrote:

          “’Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?’” Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.” (The Message 6:114 )

          Do you realise that you’ve just accepting that Al-Quran is the most completed among all Books of Allah (Kitabullah)?

          If you do, do you agree that Muhammad (pbuh) is the last messenger of Allah, accepting and bewitnessing it?

          Are you a muslim already by now?

          ~ OnDaStreet

          Like

          • Prophet Mohamed is one of many messengers of “The God”. There is no preferance over any of them.
            And what of their descendants, you may ask? Just read the verse below:-

            2:124 And when Abraham was tested by His Lord with the words (kalimatin) – thus, he completed it. We said, “Indeed I am making you for mankind as the head (imam)”. He asked, “And from my descendants”? I replied – “My promise does not include the unjust people”

            Today, we have scholars stating the special status of descendats of Prophet Mohamed. The verse states otherwise.

            The focus should not be towards the messenger, but towards God by studying His message and to fully understand it.

            Like

            • truthseeker,
              Al-Quran is Kitabullah brought down during Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

              Even there are lots of verses in Quran mentioning about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

              I just don’t get it if you wanted to follow the Al-Quran, but not accepting and bewitnessing Prophet Muhammad as His Messenger.

              If you are muslim, you should realise what you’ve said so far by now.

              If you are not, I suggest that you ought to do a complete research of Islam as a whole, not just part and partial of Al-Quran to justify your intention.

              Thank you.

              ~ OnDaStreet

              Like

            • The unjust people are those like you see in WorldBank, IMF, WTO, red dots, kikes, wasps
              Vatican and it aint nothing to do with the prophet and his descendants.

              You read wrong bro … and nothing wrong in personal admiration not amounting to syrik.

              Like

        • The name God is pagan germanic origin, replace it with the correct name Allah as its the unique name.
          Then the verse is in correct Islamic context.

          Do you have the name Atan replaced in English?
          oh yeah I forgit … Ethan right? Hmmm and all the while I thought Atan was kind of unik sound for a name.

          Like

  24. Salam, hehehe,,,I think so, too leematmutu. I think truthseeker is another ‘chop’ of DPP. Kekadang bila baca fahaman mereka tentang hal begini rasa kelakar. Rupa2nya tidak faham2 sudah diterang dengan baik sekali. Nak juga argue. Kelakar gila.

    Like

  25. I have to ask, why are the muslims bringing up the issue of the usage of the word “Allah” now, when the christians in the middle east have been using it before the creation of the islamic religion and is still being used today without any hindrance.

    JMD : Before the ‘creation’ of Islam during the period of the Prophet, the Christians never used the word Allah in their bibles. Please get this fact right ya. The word Allah in Arabic bibles came about only in the 19th century by a person known as Van Dyck. Even now the Christians in Arab World are rectifying this mistranslation.

    And christiians in the malay archipelago have been using the word “Allah” for centuries.
    Is it to subjugate the christians? To show the minorities, who the bosses are in this country?


    JMD : Really? For centuries? How many? Actually only since the mid 19th century. And this only due to the fact of the mistranslations committed by the early colonials and their gullible translators. Please do not think that this is to subjugate the Muslims. Why are you being seditious? If Muslims want to be malicious and subjugate the Christians, then everyone here in Malaysia is already a Muslim

    And what next after banning the usage of the word “Allah” by non-muslims? Ban eating of pork, just because muslims don’t eat them? Close the churches and temples, because it touches the sensitivities of muslims? Forbid other religious houses of worship within a certain area just because muslims resides there? Close and ban the selling of alcohol because muslims feel disgusted? Some of these event is happening now.

    JMD : Are those things happening now? Again, you hate the Muslims here so much, you would think all these bad things would happened to you? These thoughts only mirror what you would do to Muslims if the table is turned your way.

    The sultan of selangor came up strongly on this issue. But he is also a shareholder for the HARD ROCK” franchise in Malaysia, and distrbutes liqour and alcohol and you can find pimps and prositutes at the bar, and his hotels have health spa and massage centres.

    JMD : This is besides the point. He is governed by ulamas in the state religious body. Just because he is a shareholder of Hard Rock Cafe that you yourself had visited along with Muslims and Christians alike (which showed that Malaysia here is not an extremist Muslim country how you would like to portray), doesn’t mean that The HErald can trick the courts and Malaysian people that Christians from long time ago before Islam had been using the word ‘Allah’ in their bible. Using a fallacy as a basis of an argument will not work. Expecially when in impedes on the Muslims’ sensitivities.

    How does it feel when muslim women are banned from wearing a veil or a head scarf in europe? Many msulims here will feel humiliated. It is after all, a personal issue between the wearer and her beliefs. Why is there a need for european govenrment to interefere in such things?

    JMD : How does it feel when people trying to trick the courts just because they are stubborn and too stupid to know that the translation of Tuhan in Bahasa Malaysia in not Allah but Tuhan.

    That same feeling of humiliation and subjugation are felt by christians all over the country, especialy the malay speakig ones in sabah and sarawak.

    I ask the muslims, if you feel offended by usage of the word “Allah” by others, you have no legal authority to issue a ban based on “whims and fancies”.

    JMD : Until now, nobody that had agreed with Lau Bee Lan’s decision had even managed to answer the question I posed to The Herald in this particular article. This is the important part of it. If the Christians there are honest, then they can rectify the translation mistake in the bible and all this can be settled amicably. They must not fall on the whims and fancies of a malicious yet stubborn pastor like TS Pakiam. Not only just whims and fancies, but lies and deceit by The Herald in promoting fallacies when arguing their case. The fallacies which had been debunked in Pure Shiite’s blog.

    The law of the land is guided by the constitution, which allows freedom of worship. Those who cannot abide with this, should seriously think about migrating to more enlightened places like afghanistan, Swat valley, Yemen, Sudan and somalia. These countries are very good example of intolerance. They kill each other because some are not islamic enough. The same conclusion will happen here in Malaysia, once all minorities have fled this country.

    JMD : Yes, you can migrate to another if you think we are not liberal enough or intolerant enough. NObody is stopping you. We cannot stand those who think they can do whatever they want in this country anyway. Especially when the would want to shove their wrong translations to the East Malaysians Christians.

    It was the Malaysian govenrment that started to interfere by issuing an order to the Caholics to stop using the word “Allah”. There was no legal basis for that order and the judge has rightly state that. So just live with it and live on.

    “The God” does not need our help in defending His name. He overseas all that we do, whether in the open or in secret. We should strive for justice and righteousness. It is very difficult for those who do not believe to understand.

    JMD : The government has the legal right to ban the word as it is stipulated in the relevant enactment. The Herald was the one that had time and time again broken the law. Is The Herald above the law? You mean to say, human rights freedom has the

    Your argument that God does not need our help to defend his name is getting stale. Even the Quran give permission to go to war if needs be just to uphold Islam. You may not undertand this, because you are not a Muslim. A Muslim is not just about being good or preserving justice and what nots. His primary goal is to be a Mutaqqin (God fearing) thru Taqwa. He must not only be a Muslim, but a muslim who is also a Mukmin (the one who has achieved Taqwa. How to achieve this? Thru performing the 5 tenets of Islam and also the Fardhu Ain. Through this, your soul become fortified. Malaysian Muslim follows the sunnah wal jamaah stream. For good or worse, that is the choice of Muslims here. Do you understand what I am saying here?

    Like

    • Again, truthseeker,

      you mention to us earlier not to be ‘angry’….

      But now even you sounded angry here,
      with your “And what next after banning the usage of the word “Allah” by non-muslims? Ban eating of pork, just because muslims don’t eat them? Close the churches and temples, because it touches the sensitivities of muslims?..bla bla bla…..” ranting

      Like

    • Truthseeker

      Muslim bringing up the issue? Really … Arabs you mean?
      Middle East Christians you wrote? Persians, Kurds, Druze which one …? Oh its just Arabs. So it is an issue between Arabs then.

      So why are u bringing it up and at the same time you are saying it still being used without hindrance. I mean if there are no hindrances then there should be no issues about the word between us Arabs right? So what are you driveling at here? Are you Arab? If not, are you trying to drive a wedge between my Arab brothers huh? Do you follow the Lord and how long have you been a Christian? Born or a convert? 1st generation? And do you read the Book in Arab or anything else? Can you read Arabic? You dont? Surprising for someone who probably just read the Book in robotic fashion yet trying to appear as someone with great understanding. We Arabs have been in it much longer than you, and what do you know so much that we didnt know already? Its the name of Name reintroduce by the Arab prophet to its true meaning and because its our Arab and we used it too out of deference to that prophet of Hejaz Arabia who made us a great nation. Otherwise we would have use the ancient Hebrew or Greek or Latin if those powers remain. And we use it not out to spite our brothers here but as solidarity with the Muslims who brought us out of servitude from foreign powers to become a nation. We owe this great prophet our place among the nations of people.

      So Truthseeker stop misleading when you only have nothing but a scratch of understanding. Go seek truth first instead of trying to stamp fiction as fact with your scant knowledge which is nothing but just a flicker compared to us Arabs. The understanding by the Arabs is beyond your comprehension.

      But if this is not about an issue between Arab Muslim and Arab Christian, we advise you to refrain from involving any reference about us Arab unless you are an Arab.

      So if you still fond of ancestral longings for your pre Islam Christian, you must still be in the old wrapping of your animistic pagan ancestral worship undergarments but wearing the cloak of piety as a believer of Christ the Saviour.
      And if you are godless, then you are the Devil whispering dark evil, the Enemy.

      The Arab and the Malay are distinct races in language, culture, habits and there are only Islamised Arab Christian and Islamised Arab Jews in Al Arabia. Ask Ibrahim why he did not reveal the name to Isaac and Moses had to ask. Its because Ishmael inherited that from Ibrahim and kept secret until it the Light revealed to the Arab nation for mankind.

      Christ is not Tuhan but Nama
      Allah is not God but its Name
      YHWH is not Ilahi but its Shem

      LAWRENCE EFFENDI

      Like

    • Truthseeker Baby,

      Sorry for my friend Larry Effendi letting a bit of steam about this issue. Im sure you know how the Arabs are being uptight nowadays esp taking all the crap by people around the world almost on everything about Arab. Their look, food, brain, cloth, car… almost whatever they walk on, eat on, read on, sleep on etc. Is it because of the oil or the algebra and algorithm you struggled?

      A cube is ka’bah in Arab but The Ka’abah is in Mekah. Only in Mekah and nowhere else but in Mekah

      He just wanna say this to you

      “Render unto Rome the things which are Rome’s, and unto Malay the things that are Malay’s, and unto the Arab which are Arab’s and unto Islam the things which are Islam’s only”

      Neither My Heavens nor My Earth can hold Me,
      but the heart of my servant, , is a house for me.
      …and sanctify My house for those who compass It round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves
      (therein In prayer).

      Like

    • Truth Darling

      “Is it to subjugate the christians? To show the minorities, who the bosses are in this country?”

      Its not about subjugation of christians. Its an act of love to stop christian from making further errors for themselves, already in their scriptures and now extending such confusion to a language. Its to bring the christian to the true understanding of the meaning of Oneness of Allah The Almighty,

      Furthermore, the true believers are the minority so its politically correct to let them keep the name Allah as theirs instead of being bandied by the local Roman chapter.

      The minority Malay knows that the majority others wants to be the bosses. And the Govt is obligated in protecting the minority rights.

      Like

    • And what next after banning the usage of the word “Allah” by non-muslims? Ban eating of pork, just because muslims don’t eat them? Close the churches and temples, because it touches the sensitivities of muslims? Forbid other religious houses of worship within a certain area just because muslims resides there? Close and ban the selling of alcohol because muslims feel disgusted? Some of these event is happening now.

      What next will be the continuance of everlasting peace and harmony.

      The pork is forbidden to the jews and muslim only. Its the Law appllicable to them only. The church and temples should then cease being insensitive as a token of goodwill to the small number of muslims. It may not be pragmatic to have it in the Muslim area.

      Drinking alcohol is toxic and I may advise you to practice abstinence to these harmful consumption. Ais kacang should be a wonderful replacement to this sort of past time.

      WHICH ONE IS BETTER THE SRI LANKAN LION STOUT OR MALAYSIAN GUINNESS?

      Like

    • Truth Honey

      [The law of the land is guided by the constitution, which allows freedom of worship. Those who cannot abide with this, should seriously think about migrating to more enlightened places like afghanistan, Swat valley, Yemen, Sudan and somalia. These countries are very good example of intolerance. They kill each other because some are not islamic enough. The same conclusion will happen here in Malaysia, once all minorities have fled this country.]

      The freedom of worship is guaranteed. Disloyal subjects to the King and Constitution should be branded as traitors therefore subject to the law of the land. Those disenchanted about being here should consider migrating to Rwanda or North Ireland or Basque or Tibet or Mozambique or Sri Lanka or Alabama Deep South.

      Once the pestering alien unnaturalised majority are out, the land will be back to original pristine with only the minority true believers.

      Like

    • Truth Beloved

      [The sultan of selangor came up strongly on this issue. But he is also a shareholder for the HARD ROCK” franchise in Malaysia, and distrbutes liqour and alcohol and you can find pimps and prositutes at the bar, and his hotels have health spa and massage centres.]

      and a lot of those pimps and pros can speak Tagalog and perform confessions often and sunday mass at Bukit Nanas.
      Chinese pros also patronise the commercial banks

      Sultan probably earns from sales of merchandise only and not from the booze or health spa or massage centre.

      Like

    • Truthty Fruity

      [How does it feel when muslim women are banned from wearing a veil or a head scarf in europe? Many msulims here will feel humiliated. It is after all, a personal issue between the wearer and her beliefs. Why is there a need for european govenrment to interefere in such things?]

      It meaning you? You must feel great sadness and sympathy to their plight right?. Very kind of you.
      Many muslims here may not feel humiliated and they may just wear hooded jackets, coats or sweaters to replace the scarfs. Quite ingenious dont you think?

      Probably the european government wants to curb imports of foreign textiles since the market it is so lucrative for Turkey, India, Korea and third world countries. And its causing a huge trade deficit for the europeans.

      Like

    • Truth HalfBaked

      [It was the Malaysian govenrment that started to interfere by issuing an order to the Caholics to stop using the word “Allah”. There was no legal basis for that order and the judge has rightly state that. So just live with it and live on.

      “The God” does not need our help in defending His name. He overseas all that we do, whether in the open or in secret. We should strive for justice and righteousness. It is very difficult for those who do not believe to understand.]

      As far as the Govt being a responsible institution, they have done what the Muslim expected of them. Similarly, they have done quite the same banning the Last Temptation of Christ being shown publicly. What the Church did was challenging the DYMM personal belief is now obsoleted by this usage of the name Allah.

      Why not the Bishop meet the DYMM and with you along, tell it in his presence that it is wrong to disallow this term from being printed in Herald. And what would you say if DYMM being fair to his subject at expense of his stature as monarch then accedes and also put in a demand that it should also be imprinted with a clause such as “This Publication Contains Material With The Only Intention To Provoke Muslim/Malay/UMNO Sensitivities. If you belong to any of these category, you have been warned” like telling it as what it really is? What do you think? Its fair isnt it? Herald gets to print what they like, and the Malay/Muslim/UMNO gets warned of the Heralds malicious intention towards them (thats how you want it to be seen anyway, right ?)

      The Truthseeker is begotten thru bestial copulation and begets a beast.
      The God doesnt need anyone to defend his name.
      The Truthseeker doesnt need anyone to defend his name.
      The God neither begets nor begotten.

      The Malay is a minority. Only 9 families in the whole country. There were many more but a number decimated by Chinese/ Communist Terrorist and PKI after the war both in Peninsular and Sumatra. So why is the Church being oppressive towards them? Majority of us remain loyal to the Constitution to uphold and protect this minority and swear allegiance. You should lent support to protect these minority instead of acting bellicose and stomp trooping over their rights. Its not a Christian thing to do, friend.

      Like

  26. To All Christians…/ Muslims
    Let The truth prevail..

    Then Moses said to God, “Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me
    to you.’ Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’
    What shall I say to them?”

    God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said,
    “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel,
    ‘I AM has sent me to you.’

    God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD (YHWH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,
    has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and
    this is My memorial-name to all generations.
    Exodus 3:13-15

    God clearly tells Moses what his personal name is: His name is YHWH in Hebrew. And He clearly says that this is His name forever.

    Now Let’s Talk About Islam
    Islam deals with the god/God issue as well. The general term for a god is “ilaah”. This Arabic word is a common noun, and can either refer to any supposed god, or may also refer to the unique one. This is universally accepted among all Arabic-speaking peoples. Next, we can talk about the proper noun, or his actual Arabic name. The name universally accepted among Muslims that refers to the deity of Islam is “Allah”. There is a swirl of controversy these days about the linguistic origins of that name, but the fact remains that there is no controversy whatsoever about what Islam’s deity is named. “Allah” is his proper name, the name that he calls himself, and expects others to call him. If someone would like to contest this claim, let him consider the words of Edward William Lane, the sole author of the Arabic-English Lexicon. This eight-volume authoritative series not only took thirty years to compile, but is said to far surpass every lexicon ever produced in any language. Concerning the word “Allah”, Lane says that according to the most correct opinions of Arab grammarians, which are more than thirty in number, Allah “is a proper name”. Also, Abdul Mannan Omar, the editor of the Encyclopedia of Islam, and translator of the Qur’an into English, says directly that Allah “is not a common noun” and, like Lane, declares it to be a “proper name” (The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an p.28, 29).
    We immediately face a dilemma. The Hebrew Scriptures tell us that the eternal proper name of the one true deity is YHWH, while Islam and the Qur’an itself tells us that the eternal proper name of the one true deity is Allah. We must make a choice; it cannot be both. There is no room for fence-sitting here. The word “ilaah” is the universally accepted Arabic name for “a god”. That’s why it is called a common noun. However, our problem is not there, but rather in the decision of what proper name to use for the eternal deity. Remember, the Hebrew Scriptures clarify who this is: He is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And the New Testament also reinforces the Old Testament revelation, that God still identifies Himself with these three men, by virtue of an eternal covenant. In fact, Jesus himself reminds the Samaritan woman that “Salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22). How should we think about this? Could it be that when we talk about YHWH and Allah, we are actually talking about two different “gods”? One god who may identify himself with Abraham, but certainly not Isaac, and absolutely not Jacob (Israel); and the other who unquestionably identifies Himself as the God of all three. Their personal names with which they identify themselves are clearly different (note that YHWH is never even mentioned in the Qur’an); and it is likewise obvious that even their character and actions are different, so why do we insist that they must be the same?

    In summary, the arab bible uses the definite, common noun “al-illah” to refer to God, rather than “Allah”. They believe that this is based on a good Biblical and linguistic precedents.

    So, why must our christians brothers here insist in using the proper noun “ALLAH”
    It trully baffles me…..

    Like

  27. Selama ini orang2 xstian atau ugama2 lain, ada tidak kerajaan Malaysia atau pon ulamak2 Islam di negara ini melarang orang2 kafir makan babi etc, etc, etc? Pleaze lah truthseeker jangan bagi lah u punya ‘sob-welfare stories and feelings about all these jazz, orang2 Islam disini melarang itu dan ini. Banyak2 lah kamu bersyukur yang kamu tinggal disini masih boleh buat apa you nak. Kamu masih tidak bersyukur dan inginkan segala2 apa yang penganut2 Islam ada. Sekiranya sudah dapat guna Allah, apa lagi yang kamu nak? I can guess already.

    Like

  28. JMD and friends

    truthseeker ni doesn’t even speak the truth despite knowing the truth. i wonder why ? tak cukup pendidikan agama la tu selalunya. entah2 tak cukup umur. ke tak cukup kerja. ke saja nak buang karan.

    rasanya truthseeker ni pandai, tapi buat2 bebal. tak reti bahasa. we can bring Ahmad Deedat to this forum and truthseeker will be better learnt if he has not, but he will still defy the truth for the sake of arguing (like a CM we have); and he calls himself truthseeker!
    good luck, man.

    there are quite a number like him in this country.
    truth be revealed

    thank you

    Like

  29. Muddled Truth

    [That same feeling of humiliation and subjugation are felt by christians all over the country, especialy the malay speakig ones in sabah and sarawak.

    I ask the muslims, if you feel offended by usage of the word “Allah” by others, you have no legal authority to issue a ban based on “whims and fancies”. ]

    Wow … if the Malay speaking Christian in Sabah and Sarawak shared the anguish felt by the Muslim in Europe, they have a good heart for a Christian. If they feel subjugated by the European Govt over the scarf, then Malaysia should bring it up to The Hague and complain that their Malay speaking Christian in Sabah and Sarawak are feeling the same humiliation and subjugation meted out to the Muslim in europe over the scarf ban.

    You asked the muslims …er which one? The munafiq/musyrik/arabesque catholic/3 rasa perisa …? They feel offended … thats surprising. Otherwise who should you ask? … Shouldnt you be asking Allah Himself, I mean you personally ( but then again before you can ask, you should prostate and bow in submission to Allah first) and if you are questioning Allah, doesnt that make you a non-believer, a heretic. You know how Rome dealt with heretics esp towards the Cathars in south of France. Im worried for the local boys here might be deemed as heretics of the Church and fear that same fate might befall to them as in the past by Rome.
    Pitied the Malay speaking Christian in Sabah and sarawak for being taught Malay by the NonMalay who had mistranslated it. If they were to ask a Malay, nescaya diterjermahkan sebagai tuhan.

    If you ask the true believer, the answer is Allah will be offended to be associated the way the Romans want to.

    Anyway, doesnt sound like you asking, more like instructing.
    You have relatives in Sabah and Sarawak? I have lots from both side of the divide and they are bemused by the likes of you dragging them and the Arabs into this fray. Probably they might consider starting reading the Arab bible instead of anything elses as not to get involve.

    So you should blame that guy who mistranslated it and how humiliating it is to find out now after all these years. Maybe we should bring that guy’s descendant and demand the retraction, a correction and public apology to the Sabah and Sarawak for misguiding the soul. I think the name was something Dick or Dyke or Dike …****head?

    Like

  30. I have only stated the obvious.

    7:87
    �And if a group of you believes in what I have been sent with, and a group disbelieves, then wait until God judges between us. He is the best of judges.�

    and

    2:113 And those who proclaimed to be guided, they say, ‘There is no basis for the supporters over anything’. And it is also uttered by the supporter, ‘There is no basis for those who proclaim to be guided over anything’. And yet they both read the Book. That is exactly what is uttered by those who had no knowledge – with similar utterances. Thus God – It is He who will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in whatever matters they have disputed in it.

    Those who prowl around this blog should make up their mind on what this actually means.
    You do not have to burn churches and fight holy war when there is a dispute. God will decide in the next life on these matters. No need for banning and forbidding.

    Like

    • truthseeker,
      Yes, According to Ayat 87 Surah A’ raaf, (translated to Bahasa):

      “Dan jika ada segolongan dari kamu beriman kepada wahyu (perintah-perintah Allah) yang aku telah diutuskan untuk menyampaikannya, dan segolongan lagi tidak beriman, maka sabarlah sehingga Allah menjalankan hukumNya di antara kita semua, dan Dia lah jua sebaik-baik hakim”.

      It is mentioned here “beriman kepada wahyu”.. does the Christians believes in Al-Quran and accepted Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.), who obviously mentioned in the Al-Quran as the last Prophet, as His Prophet?

      This is my question to you few times already.. which you failed to answer…

      Do the Christians accepted and believe in Al-Quran and Muhammad as His Prophet?

      This question is posed to you since you blatantly quoting Quranic verses without really understanding Islam and Al-Quran.

      Kindly answer the question.

      Thank you.

      Like

  31. Still,

    That doesn’t mean we sit down and do nothing while an error was already committed in the first place. Of course God in the end decides over what and what not, but we are duty bound to prove to Him that we want to follow and heed His Commands. And nobody is talking about going to war here OK.. You, for a start should rectify your own mistakes in accusing and labelling other people…

    Don’t be a hypocrite…you’re just another flawed human being for all I care.

    Like

    • @ dreamcatcher,

      You still don’t understand. It is not for us mortals to decide on how others used the name “Allah”. That is entirely up to “The God”.

      I have already shown proof from the Qur’an. Are you one of those who reject the mesage?

      Do you know that the Qur’an’s main messages were to the Israelis(jews) and the Christians?

      They have created religion saying that Moses and Jesus created it? Where as, we were commanded to serve “The One God”, the jews and the christians were serving their religion. And they created their priesthood and praying rituals, which were never mentioned in the Qur’an.

      Our orders are to read the Qur’an. Does anybody here bother to do so?

      Are we commanded to embrace a religion or “God’s system”. Are we suppose to bow and prostrate, or humbly submit. Are we suppose to slay and fight or confront?

      With the internet, new/correct meanings are being discovered of the translation of the Qur’an which bypass religious filters/censorship. Best for you to study the Qur’an yourself. It is after all, your fate in the next life depends on it.

      Like

      • truthseeker,
        “Qur’an’s main messages were to the Israelis(jews) and the Christians?”

        Wow!!! Didn’t know that..

        So, are you saying that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was supposed to preach the jews and christians first, then the rest of the world?

        I wonder what the Arabs think of your wonderful statement…

        truthseeker,
        What I can say is..clearly you don’t really understand what you have written. I don’t know how twisted you are when you are trying to interprete Al-Quran without having proper konwledge and understanding.

        Kindly stop from blatantly quoting Quran. If you want to study it, study properly. Actually, I even encourage you to study what is Islam and what is inside Al-Quran, but do it in a proper way.

        Thank you.

        ~ OnDaStreet

        Like

  32. @ OnDaStreet asked, “Do the Christians accepted and believe in Al-Quran and Muhammad as His Prophet?”.

    All non-muslim do not subscribe to the Qur’an. That is why there is the law of the land, which everyone is subservient to, theoretically, in a secular and religious neutral state all over the world.

    But inceasinggly, muslims are imposing their religious beliefs and views on people who do not subscribe to their beliefs.

    God indeed defines Himself in surah Al-ikhlas. But the Qur’an has not forbidden non-believers from uttering the word “Allah”.

    But there was a warning about those who claimed that God has begotten a son. Their fate will be dealt with in the next life.

    There is also a warning abot those who embrace partners other than God.

    People in this blog are willing to defend their religion. Some even mentioned likelihood of another MAY 13th. But The Qur’an has forbidden killing, except for just causes. And when in dispute about faith,-

    Never squabble with anyone in matters of God

    2:139 Tell them, “Are you challenging with us in matters of God – whilst He is our Lord and your Lord – and for us are our deeds and for you are your deeds. And to Him we are sincere”.

    So why are we squabbling over this. We will be judged in the next life by the most Supreme Judge. Let this matter rest. Or don’t you believe that God will do justice in the next life?

    We cannot simply impose God’s guidance by whims and fancies. Ask for proof.

    And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess. (6:116)

    Therefore don’t guess in matters pertaining to what is forbidden and what is allowed. We were not given any authority to alter God’s messages and alter his guidance.

    6:149 Say: �With God is the greatest argument. If He wished He would have guided you all.�
    6:150 Say: �Bring forth your witnesses who bear witness that God has made this unlawful.� If they bear witness, then do not bear witness with them, nor follow the desires of those who deny Our revelations, and those who do not believe in the Hereafter; and they make equals with their Lord!

    The verse above state very clearly that nobody can be equal to God by making this or that unlawful. Only God can do that.

    6:151 Say: �Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you: that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is evident of it and what is subtle; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.�

    6:152 �And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.�
    6:153 And this is My path, a straight one. �So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.�

    And Al fatiha states :-

    Chapter 1
    1:1 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
    1:2 Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds.
    1:3 The Almighty, the Merciful.
    1:4 Sovereign of the Day of Judgment.
    1:5 You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help.
    1:6 Guide us to the straight path.
    1:7 The path of those You have blessed, not of those who have incurred the wrath, nor the misguided.

    Muslims utter Al-fatihah everyday in their prayers without understanding its ciontents. But they do not understand what the “straight path” is.

    Do not set up anything with Him. (Those who say religion is from God, then beware.)
    Treat our parents kindly.
    Do not kill our children
    Stay away from lewdness
    Do not kill another man unless for just causes.
    Do not short change/cheat the orphans and give him his inheritance upon maturity.
    Do not cheat anyone.
    Do not lie, even if it affects our relatives.

    Peace!

    Like

    • Truthseeker,
      You’ve said:

      “All non-muslim do not subscribe to the Qur’an. That is why there is the law of the land, which everyone is subservient to, theoretically, in a secular and religious neutral state all over the world.

      But inceasinggly, muslims are imposing their religious beliefs and views on people who do not subscribe to their beliefs.”

      Do muslims really do imposing their religious beliefs by confusing with God’s name?

      As far as I am concerned, clearly the muslims don’t call The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit in trying to preach other non-muslim to join Islam. And please, don’t tell me Christians do not ever attempt to convert non-Christians to Christianity.

      We believe the Oneness of Allah and I do accept that there’s no verse that prevent from others to use “Allah”.

      The difference is what is the intent behind such moves. That’s all. Is translation from God to Allah is necessary when the dictionary dictates God is Tuhan in Bahasa Malaysia? Why the need of such translation? Isn’t someone is trying to preach Christianity by using very well synonym name to Muslims’ God in Malaysia?

      Some fight due to concern to those who are weak who may got confused.

      However, my argument with you is more when you are trying interprete Quran blatantly without having proper understanding. What more confusing others.

      You, sir, used Quran to justify your intention, but by not accepting Muhammad as His Messenger.

      May I ask, how can you use the word of Allah brought by His messenger, but not believing the messenger is His messenger? Kindly explain…

      ~ OnDaStreet

      Like

      • OnDaStreet said :-

        The difference is what is the intent behind such moves. That’s all. Is translation from God to Allah is necessary when the dictionary dictates God is Tuhan in Bahasa Malaysia? Why the need of such translation? Isn’t someone is trying to preach Christianity by using very well synonym name to Muslims’ God in Malaysia?
        My reply:-
        I quote the verses so that you may be guided.

        Nobody can guide others except God Himself

        2:272 It is not upon you to guide them – however it is God who guides whomever He wills – and whatever you contributed from the good things – thus it is for your own good – and you must not contribute unless you are seeking God’s presence – and whatever you contributed from the good things it will be repaid to you – and you will not suffer any injustice.

        2:257 God is the protector of those who believe – He takes them out from injustice to the light. And those who disbelieve – their protectors are the virtual idols – they will take them out – from the light to injustices. They are the residence of the Fire – and they will abide in it forever.

        Surah 14:4: And we did not send any apostle but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom he pleases err and he guides whom he pleases, and he is the Mighty, Wise.”

        More on the “Allah” issue

        18:29 Say: The truth is from your Lord : Let him who will believe and let him who will reject (it)

        OnDaStreet asked :-

        You, sir, used Quran to justify your intention, but by not accepting Muhammad as His Messenger.

        My reply :- Muhammad is a messenger, one of many

        2:146 Those to whom We gave them the Book – they recognise it just they way they recognise their own children. Certainly many from among them – but they concealed the truth – and they knew with certainty. 2:147 The truth is from your Lord – thus you must not be from among those who are doubtful.

        And a verse about God, as a reminder :-

        2:255 God – there is no god except He – the living – Self sustain – Never slumber – Never sleep – To Him belongs whatever in the skies and whatever in the earth. Who is the one that will intercede by Him – except with His permission? He knows whatever between their hands and whatever that was behind them. And they can never know with anything from His knowledge – except with whatever He wills. The dominance of His throne encompasses all the skies and the earth – and it never burdens Him in managing them – and He is the uppermost – The great.

        Peace!

        Like

        • I’m afraid you are the one who is misguided here mr halftruth…
          Why I call u halftruth? It is because you tend to assume that people like on da street or me, for that matter do not read the Quran. That alone is enough to show that you are judgmental in your assessment of people here. Is that an act of charity?

          Of course your next argument would be ‘then why don’t you submit to these messages if you do indeed read the Quran? My question to you also be why don’t you practice what is commanded first?

          Like

        • truthseeker,
          “My reply :- Muhammad is a messenger, one of many”

          We, muslims certainly follow…

          But do you follow? You quoted Quran verse, yet in the Quran, it has been told to follow Prophet Muhammad.

          Do you? Follow the Quran, but don’t follow Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

          Where’s your logic?

          ~ OnDaStreet

          Like

          • I do not write these things. you decide and choose your path.

            “And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord’s verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided.” (The Message 18:57)

            2:170 And when it is said to them, “Follow whatever was transmitted by God”, they say, “Never! We will only follow whatever we found over it of our forefathers”. Although their forefathers never used their common sense – and they were never guided?

            In the Quran , there are many verses where it begins with the word “say”, for e.g.

            Say, “I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner.” (Quran 46:9)

            The messenger said, “My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran.” (Quran 25:30)

            2:189 They ask you about worthiness (74:56), Tell them, “It is the specific period for mankind and the challenge”. And it is not virtuousness that you enter the house from its back – but it however the virtuousness of those who are observant to enter the house from its doors. And you shall observe God so that you may benefit.

            2:215 They ask you – “What is contribution”. Tell them, “Whatever you contribute from the good things – thus they are for both parents, and relatives and the orphans and the needy and those on the path. And whatever you do from the good things – indeed God is with Him – the knowledgeable

            2:217 They ask you about confrontation during the restricted months – Tell them, “Confrontation is great – however, deterring others about the path of God and to distrust Him and the sanctioned consented decrees – and to discourage the people from it – is even greater by God”. And trial is worse than confrontational”. And they will not stop being confrontational against you – until they revert you from the orderly way of life. And whoever from among revert you from the orderly way of life – thus they will die – as distrusted. Consequently it is they – who wasted their deeds in this world and the day of the hereafter. And it is they – who will reside in the Fire – they will abide in it – forever. 2:218

            2:219 They ask you about the wine (12:41) and convenient times (2:280). Tell them, “In both of them there are great misdemeanours and some benefits for mankind. And the misdemeanour is even greater from its benefit”. And they also ask you about “contribution”. Tell them, “Forgiving (7:199)”. That is how God explains to you His signs so that you use your common sense, 2:220 in this world and the hereafter. And they ask you about the orphans. Tell them, “Reforming for them – is good. And if you are living with them – thus they become your brethren. And God – He knows between the mischief and the reformers – and if it is the will of God – surely He can cause severe hardship on you. Indeed God is almighty – the Judge.

            “And obey God and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that the SOLE DUTY of the messenger is the deliverance (of the message)” 5:92

            “And obey God and obey the messenger, but if you turn back, then upon Our messenger is the SOLE DUTY of the clear delivery (of the message)” 64:12

            You make up your mind what you want to believe. I have not being given any power to prohibit nor authorise anyone else from using any words or having prohibiting other faiths and beliefs.
            To you, your beleif, and to me, mine.
            Whatever is uttered by Mohamed is already in the Qur’an. But if yuo insist in believing anything more, that it is up to you.

            “’Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?’” Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.” (The Message 6:114 )

            “Say: ‘Which is the greatest testimony?’ Say: ‘God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur’an that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!’ Say: ‘I do not bear witness!’ Say: ‘He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!’” (The Message 6:19)

            “And We have come to them with a Book which We have detailed with knowledge; a guide and a mercy to those who believe.” (The Message 7:52)

            “We have revealed to you the Book with truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous. ” (The Message 4:105)

            Peace!

            Like

            • truthseeker,
              You still do not answer my question. You use Quran verses, yet you rejected Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). How is that so?

              Why?

              Or have you converted to Islam? If yes, alhamdulillah.

              ~ OnDaStreet

              Like

              • I think you have misunderstood.
                The statements made by Prophet Mohamed is already writtten in the Qur’an. You do not have to add anything more than that.

                I state the obvious. Porphet Mohamed is one of many other prophets.

                And if there is a dispute concerning beliefs, te Qur’an states very clearly, that it will be settled in the next life. In this life, you and your beliefs, and me and my beliefs. And if we are wrong in our beleifs, then we will be doomed to eternal punishemnt.

                But in the Qur’an, it also states that we have to use our common sense and not to blindly follow the faiths of our ancestors as stated in surah 2.170 and below :-

                “And no one could attain fidelity, except by the grace of the God and (He) would place filth on those who do not think” (Q.10:100)

                nobody has the right to prevent others from performing their religious duties/beleifs. If the christian bumiputras want to use the word “Allah”, then it is their right. But God will inform them in the next life, if the christians or muslims or anyones else are wrong.

                In this life, we are to strive for righteousness and justice, be humble and honest, speak with humility and not loudly, do not lie and cheat, even if it testifying against a relative, treat our parents well, and forbidden to kill another person, except for just causes. And do not be agrressive. Stay away from evil. Be patient, especially during the bad times. And you must honour your words/agreement.

                But when justice and righteousnes is denied, then we have to confront these people, in a non-aggresive manner.

                It looks simple, but in actual fact, very difficult to implement.

                Peace.

                Like

              • truthseeker,
                You’ve said:

                “The statements made by Prophet Mohamed is already writtten in the Qur’an. You do not have to add anything more than that.

                I state the obvious. Porphet Mohamed is one of many other prophets.”

                You used Quranic verses, you mentioned Prophet Muhammad is one of many prophets

                But my question is this.. Do you follow what Prophet Muhammad preached? Do you believe in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

                I’m pretty sure that I don’t misunderstood.. it is you diverting from the question.🙂

                Thank you

                ~ OnDaStreet

                Like

  33. Already you quote “Muslims utter Al-fatihah everyday in their prayers without understanding its ciontents. But they do not understand what the “straight path” is. That could indeed be true to some Muslims.

    “I quote the verses so that you may be guided.”

    Wow….so sanctimonious… btw are you guideed?

    Like

  34. Greeting gents,

    We, Muslims, are not Muhammadanism. We don’t worship Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), but Allah.

    With regards to this case, its translation wrong actually.

    1) Bibles in vary version use ‘The Lord’ or ‘The God’, and the translation should be Tuhan in Bahasa.

    2) Al Quran, the Muslims Holy Book, in any language (Arab, English, Bahasa Melayu) use only the word of Allah.

    Allah, is not a word, it is a Name.

    Like

  35. I see those posts are not relate to the case/issue and more to debate on which religion is right and which is wrong.

    Friend, not necessary la. Kid stuff. You worship what you believe, and we worship what we believe. Show some respect. I’m pointing to all muslims and non muslims. Cut it off. You just spreading the hatred and anger.

    Life is too short for Hate and Insult. Fill it with Love and Care.
    Like what our religion of our own has thought.

    Like

    • there was no misunderstanding, until the people in charge of muslim affairs department started to implement their ruling, supposedly meant only for muslims, into the domain of other faiths.

      A form of injustice was done, and the aggreived party seek a neutral court of the land.

      The court of the land has rightly decided that the word “Allah” is not solely for muslim use only. Even terrorist use the word “Allah” before they blow themselves and others up.

      But it is the muslims who cannot accept this and started to cause trouble. I have no trouble with anyone, nor seek any. And evidence shows that those arrested for religious mischiefs are all muslims. It is they, who have to try very hard to be friends with others.

      Like

    • @ dreamcatcher
      What exactly is the truth?
      Nobody knows except the Almighty.
      We all have our difference of opinion. Some believe in the son of god. Others believe in the one and only. Some do not believe in god at all.

      By banning of the word “Allah”, the muslims are doing worse than the zionist in israel, by chasing the arabs out of palestine.
      To the israelis, they are doing no wrong, as they were only claiming their promised land, based on their religion.

      But in islam, the word Allah is not forbidden for others to use, and yet, muslims wants to ban the usage for certain people.

      The Qur’an correctly defines “The God” in surah Al-Ikhlas. Whether we believe in this is entirely up to us. God will decide in the next life whether we deserve to be punished or not.

      Many of the verses in the Qur’an were directed to “bani Israel” and the christians.
      And there are several verse that states the arabs were hypocrites and steep in disbelief (but the arabs cleverly said the verse were meant for the bedouins).

      The Qur’an also tells us read and understand the true meanings, for guidance.
      But many muslims prefer to be lead by their imams and religious scholars, who tells them what to do and what to believe. We should only have our faith in God. Do we not trust God to guide us?

      Just becasue the religious scholars states that certain words should be banned from usage for the christians does not mean they are correct.

      To me, my belief, and to you, your belief. Nobody should be forced into another’s belief (no compulsion). So why are muslims neglecting the guidance given in the Qur’an?

      Like

      • “The Qur’an also tells us read and understand the true meanings, for guidance.
        But many muslims prefer to be lead by their imams and religious scholars, who tells them what to do and what to believe. We should only have our faith in God. Do we not trust God to guide us?”

        You are absolutely ignorant. There is a thing called scholarships, where people devote their studies fully on the areas they choose to delve in. And I think you miss the word ‘blindly’ after ‘lead’. Got it? Oh never mind. There is a thing called to be led but not to be led blindly. People are not that stupid laa, as long as people have brains they can tell if the imam and scholars have blundered in their teaching. Just like teachers in school or colleges. When you open up a textbook, you need a TEacher to teach you in first place right? So you want to say these students prefer to be led by their teachers and lecturers? Use your BRAIN man, because you sounded like you just came out from vacuum after years of isolation.

        YOu, on the other hand, blindly quotes from the Quran as if the Quran is there to support your argument . You what that act of yours is called? It’s prostituting the Holy words. If you believe it to be Holy, surely you will not use it to quote them and put together with your ludicrous arguments (or what may sounded like an argument, but more like incoherent renderings)…need someone to spell that to you?

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  36. salam, for truthseeker:

    you believe on bible, i more believe on Quran. I’m muslim n know more Islam rather than you, I don’t know much about christian, but what i want you to know is Allah is the only Almighty, all of the holly word in Quran Used Allah never say God, do it happened on Bible?????, Ellah, Elohim or what ever in bible say or used for God it not same as Allah, Why the christian must used the word of Allah for God, do you think christian came to the southeast asia more early than Islam???? i think not…..Islam came more earlier to this region especially in borneo than christian. that mean your wrong if you think christian came and used the Allah as your God……islam never claim anything in bible to use for Islam, but christian try to claim something that never have in their religious.

    what i know all of christians believe that the yesus or jesus is God….why not used yesus as a name of your God why used Allah if your believe that Yesus is your God…..we believe in Quran that Isa is the messenger for Bani Isreal not for all human, Isa is messenger for bani Israel community only. but Islam is for all…..Muhammad are messenger for all human until day after….

    you said:

    “To me, my belief, and to you, your belief. Nobody should be forced into another’s belief (no compulsion). So why are muslims neglecting the guidance given in the Qur’an?”

    ….but why christian so rude to interrupt in Islamic religious especially to used the name of Allah as your God name that never mention in bible….i don’t know that you know what you said with you sentence above…..do Islam take anything in bible to claim as their’s??????who claim first?????…….i think christian don’t have a good word to use for God name, so need to share or to stole the name of Allah as the God name for Christian from Islam…..

    that mean christian is not the original religious….it the copy religious…..very sad for christian…..Islam is never never never same to any religious in this word…..that is special of greater islamic religious……

    if you think the name of Allah is the name of christian God, i think before you birth to this word all of the bible will used the word of Allah in your bible not God……why just right now to claim its…..”for you is your religious and for me is mine religious…..i’m believe in islam and never touch you religious…please respect our sensitivity……………………….

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  37. This issue is so sensitive to people in Semenanjung but for us from Sabah and Sarawak… we had no problem with it, that ‘s why we are so different from semenanjung ppl, where racism between races are not sensitive issue.Our unity between races here are so much stronger, where we can sit on 1 table to eat together. The word “Allah” has being used for generations since British era before the formation of Malaysia. And still being used until today for prayers in churches for services conducted in BM.. Herald has been established since 1980s and the goverment should have inform Herald earlier during that time. Now , the damaged has done and the outsiders looked Malaysia with this as a fracture to Malaysia’s image as one of the most peaceful countries in Asia. When most Christian Sabahans and Sarawakians went to work in Semenanjung , they group together on weekends for prayers.. Using the word Allah it’s not their fault. They just want to sing and praise to God peacefully. If you want to enforce the change thoroughly to Borneo, i think a lot of ppl would not understand especially from the kampungs because not all of them are educated. It’s like deeply rooted in our soul as in our tradition.

    JMD : Yes, the usage of the word Allah is not the fault of the followers. It is the fault of the people that brought in this particular christianity into that part of Malaysia less than 100 years ago with an ulterior motive. Now it is the time to correct that mistake. Please read it here and here for further explanation. Thank you.

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