Kindred spirit / Politics in general / Socio-economy

Discussing Malaysian democracy

I have been meaning to post this article for the past couple of weeks but had decided to wait till today where I think the political atmosphere is much calmer. Anyway, a month ago I received this comment from Mojojojo regarding what he / she theorise as Malaysian Democracy and what constitutes and differentiate between our own social political structure and with those of other countries. I believe his / hers is a valuable insight into what the current mindset of some Malaysians have regarding this country of ours . I must thank Mojojojo for writing an excellent brief analysis for us to read and also, I am putting this out as a prelude to a future article of mine, God willing.

__________________________________________________________________________

I feel compelled to comment only because i find it difficult to comprehend the sheer naivete or perhaps it is the scarily fervent belief of the followers of certain political leaders in the almost messianic qualities of those leaders, who in the eyes of their followers can apparently do no wrong.

To those few who are so ‘taksub’ or fixated on the exaggerated and over-rated concept which is ‘ketuanan rakyat’, i wish to offer my take.

Going back to the original conception of democracy by the Greeks, the etymology of which comes from 2 words, i.e. demos (people) and kratos (initially power, force, strength, etc. Over time, evolving to mean rule or government), it would appear that the precedent for ‘ketuanan rakyat’ is clearly established.

However, even the brightest of them, i.e. Socrates, Plato and others were united in their belief that to hand over rule to the people would result in utter chaos for the greek city states. In essence, they considered that rule or governance was best exercised by a group of learned men. Of course, this may be simplifying this account to a great extent – but the foundations and precedents laid then reverberate and continue to ring true even today.

Thousands of years later, and in Malaysia no less, the prescience concerning the fallacy of rule by the people is being played out.

Unfortunately, the serious lack of political and administrative leadership of the present administration has resulted in a vacuum in which a pretender – supported by a cadre of fearsome and narrow-minded enforcers, purports to be the only saviour of the country to bring about a so called new dawn for Malaysia. The cult of personality around this person defies belief, which urgently brings to my mind the important lessons of Orwell’s Animal Farm.

I do not claim to have any solution to the seemingly intractable differences at home, only wishing to share my observations. In my view, the leaders of PR, despite the public shows and utterances of solidarity with the man in the street are in my humble opinion no different than the so-called crooks which they claim to have been in power for too long. It is now their time they say, their time to perhaps plunder and drive even deeper divisions.

It should not escape attention that the rise of violence in Malaysian politics coincides with the rise of PKR. Instead of cooling down the flames of animosity, certain PKR leaders appear to be fanning those flames, with scant regard for the consequences of their actions, as long as it yields them the seat of power.

In terms of what i believe constitute the primary elements of democracy, i am of the view that its definition hinges on its interpretation and more importantly, its implementation. I believe that we first need to have a clear idea of what democracy itself should mean for us. In our case, i believe that the best democracy for Malaysia takes into account the particularities of Malaysia’s social, economic, demographic and political landscape, among others.

In this regard, i am of the view that the kind of democracy that Malaysia should be is the one that has been decided by our leaders who negotiated Malaysia’s independence. I believe that the agreement then was acceptable to and endorsed by all communities and stakeholders.

The success of the approach mapped out then, particularly in terms of balancing and accounting for the interests of all communities is evidenced by the fact that now, 50 or so years on, Malaysia is no longer the colonial backwater it once was. Equally important is the fact that since independence, Malaysia as a country has been able to maintain a more or less independent approach, both in terms of its economic planning and foreign policy. In this context, you will find me staunchly opposing any section of our society that seeks to renegotiate the terms agreed by our founding fathers.

I do not pretend that the prosperity which has and continues to be bestowed on Malaysia has benefitted all communities equally, some have benefitted more than others. However, the fact that there remains pockets of marginalised and underdeveloped segments of society do not in any way justify the blatantly racist, poisonous and prejudiced accusations such as those espoused by HINDRAF leaders.

In my humble view, People Power, wielded injudiciously as we have witnessed in the Philippines and continue to witness in Thailand, cannot work. I believe that while it can function as a preliminary catalyst, it ultimately fails when its principles eventually need to be translated into practicable policies and actions. To me, people power inevitably spawns populist policies and measures which in turn require and rely on populist politicians to see them through. Given the flip-flopping posture and populist pandering, and not to mention the divergence and inconsistencies in positions among PR components themselves, i’ve become even more convinced that it would be an unmitigated disaster if PR were to helm the federal government .

However, the catch is this, Malaysia IS a democracy-for better or worse. As such, should any party come to power through the popular vote, then i believe that should be accepted as the people’s choice. My single most abiding fear is that, through all the ‘wayang kulit’ that is being acted out by politicians on both sides, the rakyat will become more confused. Add to the mix irresponsible politicians who are blatantly racist and prone to stoke and fan communal fears and feelings, the end result could very well be explosive. Seeing the increasingly frequent street demonstrations in Malaysia, i believe that moves to drive even deeper divisions among the communities are being actively undertaken by these same irresponsible people.

Given the delicate nature of democracy in Malaysia, I am equally convinced of the need for strong leadership. For all of the faults of our previous Prime Ministers, they have managed to maintain the delicate communal balances, thereby allowing for Malaysia to develop in her own mould. What the current PM (JMD – At this point of time, Pak Lah was still the PM) has done should also be lauded, as he has attempted to open the space to allow for deeper, more meaningful inter-communal dialogue and understanding. Unfortunately, certain quarters have seen fit to take advantage of the openness and sincerity of the current administration as a signal that everything is up for negotiation.

In a nutshell, I believe that democracy is both a means to an end and an end in itself. I strongly believe that for it to work in a country like ours, a strong, clear and united leadership is needed. Taking into account all that Malaysia is and has been through, i do not think that the so-called democracy as promoted by PR will ensure that Malaysia can remain as peaceful, stable and prosperous as it once was, at least before their brand of alienating and personality-centred politics was introduced.

100 thoughts on “Discussing Malaysian democracy

  1. HAI BRO JMD! HOW ARE YOU SIR?

    VERY WELL AND SOLID ARTICLE BRO! KEEP UP THE GOOD ANALYSIS BRO!

    JMD : I am fine thank you. Hope you are doing well too. By the way the main bulk of this article is not mine. It’s from a commentator. Thank you.

    Like

  2. I would like to add another vital dimension to democracy, especially in Malaysia, and that is a strong Opposition. It is the duty of the Opposition to keep the govt. on its toes and to see that it does right by the rakyat. For too long we have not had a meaningful opposition and that has led to current allegations of corruption within govt., the police, the judiciary, etc. I feel that PR has been fulfilling this much needed role and may it grow in strength.

    JMD : Hello Kathy, if I may, in a vibrant democracy, strong opposition is a misnomer actually. What we need is a dynamic and mature opposition instead of a strong yet damaging one. In the effort of keeping the government on its toes, a dynamic and mature opposition will produce solutions and support towards nation building and a fair monitoring system on the government; not further derailing every effort the government is committing. The latter in itself is self destructive.
    Bear in mind, that the opposition’s job is not solely about producing allegations and stoking up sentiment to destabilise the nation. Sadly, our opposition do not yet know their role in the our country. Thank you.

    Like

  3. A WARPED OUTLOOK OR RATHER ANOTHER DENIAL SYNDROME BY SOME CARTOON MINDED PEOPLE. MALAYSIAN DEMOCRACY IS BASED ON OUR OWN CONSTITUTION. BUT IF THE CONSTITUTION HAS BEEN RELEGATED TO A REFERENCE BOOK NOT THE RULES THEN THE DEMOCRACY HAS LOST IT’S MEANING. DEMOCRACY TERPIMPIN FROM TIGA ABDUL IS IN EFFECT WHERE THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY MANIPULATE AND TWIST THE CONSTITUTION TO ITS LIKING, NOT WHEN THEY SHOULD PLAY/ GOVERN BY THE RULES SET DOWN BY THE CONSTITUTION. I.S.A, POLICE ACT, PUBLICATION ACT AND THE AUKU WILL BE THE RESULT. AND LIKE THE ISA DETAINEES, THE CONSTITUTION WAS DETAINED UNLAWFULLY TO SUIT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY AND THAT GENTLEMEN, MEANS THAT WE DON’T HAVE A DEMOCRACY. WE DID HAVE IT BUT IT WAS DETAINED WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF ISA ACT IN 1960 BY TUN RAZAK….OUR DEMOCRACY IS DETAINED INDEFINITELY BY THE I.S.A IN 1960 ( AN ACT WHICH GOES AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION)…END OF DISCUSSION.

    JMD : End of discussion? So much about discussing democracy..🙂

    Like

  4. “My single most abiding fear is that, through all the ‘wayang kulit’ that is being acted out by politicians on both sides, the rakyat will become more confused.”

    But this is the same Rakyat who gave BN the majority at GE 2008 and the previous 50 years. Therefore, your condescending and paternalistic pronounciation is nothing more than that of someone who cannot accept it when the voters choose those whom you don’t like.

    The M’sian voter today is niether naive or confused. It’s more likely that it is you are who is trapped in time continuum warped space and who is refusing to accpet inevitable change. The rest have move forward to the new millennium and world of realpolitkk!

    Take Thailand as an example. Abhisit who masterminded the sit in at bangkok Airport and brought down Thaksin with the connivance of the police and army at a cost of $ billions to the Thai Economy, is now crying foul at Thaksin using those same tactics which Abhisit said was part and parcel of democracy!

    So, sauce for th egoose is sauce for the gander!. And when UMNO/BN is no longer seen as representing the interests of the mass of the non-Malays AS WELL AS the Malays, then they will have to reckon with huge electoral losses as has just happened.

    “It should not escape attention that the rise of violence in Malaysian politics coincides with the rise of PKR.” Hogwash Let’s not kid anyone.

    M’sian history and politics is replete with violence if you only care to look. There was that violence in 1969, engineered by an UMNO stalwart! PR does not advocate, condone pr practice violence.

    What you want is to play act at Democracy so long as it suits you. But at the same time, you will use the ISA, OSA, Printing & Presses Act, arbitary Rural Banishment & Remand Orders to suppress Opposition and to keep yourself in power. And oh yes, of course the facade of Democracy is necessary to beg USA & Europe for FDI’s.

    No, my friend, Democracy is only a concept. It takes Humans to make it work well. And for that to happen you need honesty, integrity and meritocracy to be so deeply ingrained in our national psyche, that we would struggle to breathe if it were compromised.

    A hotch-ptoch of imagined ‘some more equal than others’ concept and a non-existent Social Contract bordering on a Master & Slave ideology is what is really at the root of your lamentation!

    Wake up to the new 1 Malaysia, 1 Nation!
    http://donplaypuks.blogspot.com

    JMD : Master & Slave idealogy? Who in the correct mind would believe such lies? I certainly do not feel like a master. And I certainly do see anyone else as slaves, myself included. The Social Contract is what being stipulated in the Constitution. Is the opposition trying to change the Constitution now? Correct me if I’m wrong, but Thailand politics is exactly the point when people’s power is taken to the extreme without due regards to the laws. After Thaksin in 2006, there were 3 governments changing hands until Abhisit took over. As for 1969 racial violence, it was a blatant lie that an Umno stalwart engineered it. Please read other sources as well. But thank you for the comment though. Always a pleasure.

    Like

  5. Democracy is governance for the good of the majority. However, certain quarters have taken it to mean that once in power the state belongs to them and is their private property to be seamlessly integrated into what they own. The people is only the steps in the ladder for them to climb to the pinnacle of power and if they need water they have to pay for all the excesses of the management. If they want power, they have to pay for it, even if the utility is charging them for the excesses of the management. For petrol and diesel, the people owe it to Petronas that it make a windfall profit with their PSC partners. The people are even expected to pay a higher price for fish because the Government saw it fit that their cronies profit from the double priced fish boxes. We, the poor rakyat have the vote but the Putras have the power and wealth. That, my friends is democracy abused when the apparatus of the state is used to oppress the very people who have the vote.

    JMD : No my friend, it is the Umnoputras and the warlords in BN’s component parties that have the power and wealth. The ordinary bumiputras meanwhile have the lowest per capita income in Malaysia. There is a certain thinking that in a developing nation, the rich should subsidise the poor. Should this be the way in our own social context? Thank you.

    Like

  6. While I give a 110% agreement to mojojojo’s opinion, my question is “how many people reliase it?”.

    How many people loves the nation more than they love their idolise self made and self love leaders?

    How many people think that doing what is right for the nation is doing right for themselve?

    JMD : That is a good question in the second para. People should ask themselves this.

    Like

  7. JMD,

    I am not a great proponent of some of the BN policies but since their worst performance in the March 2008 General Elections I am beginning to see the ugly side of demagogic politics and the rise of personality cult among Malaysians, especially our youths. This dangerous trend will continue if the BN is incapable of reforming themselves the next three years before the next GE.

    A week ago I got the first taste of what the whole scenario would be under an alternative government installed by the fury of angry,uninitiated and restless supporters.Almost the whole bulk of the proletariat or the working class in this country seem to be under a spell.Spell of hero worshipping and personality cult.Their hero had been wronged and can do no wrong.That’s how they see it.

    I have to temporarily suspend my blog due to torrents of nasty and uncouth remarks from those easily incited and excited by the instigation of a top dog blogger against my blog for saying I will not vote for PAS/Pakatan because PAS may pass hudud law if they take over the federal government.

    Since I do not believe in moderating comments that defeat the whole idea of intelligent discourses I have to suspend my blog to stop the gutter comments made on some leaders of this country.

    It’s like a pack of hayenas being released to devour what’s is left after the lion have had its feast.

    Our neighbour up north now have to deal with the fallout of absolute freedom.

    I find the article you/your commentator wrote most profound and hope you don’t mind if I carry it on my blog with link back to your blog.

    JMD : I do not mind at all. Thank you for the comment. I remember I had replied about the PR supporters some time ago in the commentary section. I said:

    It is necessary so that the PR supporters will know how to think. So that they too can learn how to criticise their own leaders. Do not get me wrong, I do wish there are oppositions in the current political environment as a form of check and balance.

    The reality now is, even the BN supporters criticise BN and the government. Even though they are members of BN parties, they do criticise when its due. Just read the blogs. You will find many pro BN bloggers who do not mince their words in lambasting the BN leaders.

    Thus, it is certainly not good if the opposition forms the Federal Government. Why? Because its supporters do not know how to criticise their own party. Worse, the supporters in blogosphere will be blinded by their faith and became incapable to see the mistakes made. I do hope you will agree with me on this.

    Whenever I highlighted the mistakes or the absurdity of PR leaders, not one pro opposition readers who read any of my articles gave out comments saying – ‘yes you are right, they need to get their act together’ or something akin to that.

    They will bombard the commentary sections with tales of BN’s corruption or blaming everyone else except their ‘infallible’ leaders.

    These are not the people we want should PR be the next Federal Government. We need mature people who can criticise when its due. It won’t hurt the cause.

    Like

  8. JMD,

    Since your article has accused HINDRAF of being “blatantly racist, poisonous and prejudiced accusations such as those espoused by HINDRAF leaders.”–I feel compelled to rebut this accusation.

    “Pada 14 September, 1952, pada Mesyuarat Majlis Raja-Raja telah membuat keputusan bahawa 1.2 juta penduduk China dan 800 ribu penduduk India diberi kerakyatan Persekutuan Tanah Melayu.
    Majlis Raja-Raja juga memastikan bahawa “in an independent Malaya all nationals should be accorded equal rights, privileges and opportunities and there must not be discrimination on grounds of race and creed,”
    Yes the MRR meant well–no discrimination–but what happened,NEP was formulated to help all races and of course priority was for the Malays.Mrsm and Uitm was built to accomodate only the Malays. The civil service are filled with 90% Malays.Universities are filled with 80% Malays, whereas Uitm 100%–every where discrimination was the name of the game–now what is the status of the Indians in Malaysia–a completely marginalised lot–pls also be informed the present day Indians are all born here–this is their motherland–they did not ask to be born here to be discriminated.They are not questioning the Malay rights,but just give them their rightful share.
    For 50 years–the Indians have been voting the BN loyally–but what they got. In education they are discriminated–bright students deprived of scholarships and education of their choice. For hundreds of years the Indians have been toiling in the estates and contributing economically to the country. Even that have been deprived to them and replaced with migrant workers. The govt just didnt bother to give them Felda like schemes to let them continue with their livelihood. Their temples demolished indiscriminately ignoring their sensitivities. But these people are forced to migrate to towns looking for jobs. Consequently some of their children are forced to commit crime in the name of survival. These people are a completely ignored lot.
    I feel compelled to ask you—if Hindraf didn’t come to the limelight–the Indians would have been loyally voting for the BN govt and they take for granted the Indian support and after winning, continue marginalising the Indians. They prefer SamyVelu who will ampu the govt and at the same time sapu the Indian’s share in the govt and enrich himself at the expence of the Indians.His son Velpari can effort to throw hundreds of thousands of ringgit on an actress(presumably his mistress).It is not incumbent upon the govt to implement everything demanded by Hindraf. Most probably the govt can employ more Indians in the civil service, give more scholarships to deserving Indians, provide them felda like scheme, since most of the Indians who move to the towns were oringinally working in estates. I agree MIC has failed the Indians and they quickly got influenced by the Hindraf slogans.
    The Hindraf leaders also meant well–most of them are well off–why should they sacrifice their good life and end up in ISA cells. They tried many times to approach the govt but was turned down. Since they had no alternative they were forced to protest on the streets grabbing attention from the authorities. But unfortunately it didnt go down well with the govt and they were labelled extremists and finally Hindraf was banned. The opposition benefitted from this and managed to convert it into votes in the PRU12.As long as the 3 true Hindraf leaders are detained under the draconian ISA laws–the majority of the Indians will not vote for BN anymore. It is clearly evident from the recently concluded Bt Selambau by election.Now I ask you–what was their crime–just b’cos they were asking the govt for the Indian’s rightful share,they should be treated like hardcore criminals and incarcerated. I like to remind you this–the 4 by elections has demonstrated that BN can’t fool the rakyat anymore–they will wipe out BN in 2013—MAKKAL SAKTI

    JMD : Quest and lust for power will make everyone sacrifice their good life. But of course, they underestimated the meekness of Pak Lah’s leadership when he threw them in Kamunting under the ISA. This however, did not expunge the sins of the Hindraf leaders when they ACCUSE the government as racist and torturing Indians in Malaysia. Please read more here. Samy Vellu is partly blamed in this issue. Had he done his job, then the MIC will have a lot of support from the community. We had discussed much of the issues you stated above in many previous articles. You know where to search for them. Thank you.

    Like

  9. The problem is quite a sizeable of voters believe in this one man. They are all mesmerised by his words. Some may get into a trance and take to the streets to cause mayhem. Can you imagine no less a Royal convoy was halted due to those idiots believed in him.

    I have a second thought about this man when he visited us (students abroad) as DPM. When I came back home he was sacked. I was not surprise.

    Like

  10. hi parpukari

    did you read before you start to butter up JMD? solid article for BN or solid article for learned and educated malaysians?

    people’s power does not mean the people are ruling under the concept of anarchy but to send a clear message to both side of the divides that the votes come from the citizens and they will decide who to be their govt. if you were to look at history and understand the political stability of one country, riot/protest always started by the govt/politicians who implemented bad policies and the citizens felt that they are treated unfairly.

    if the govt is good, why would the people protests? animal farm and french revo points to one thing, it’s the govt that caused instability in the country and not the other way round.

    going back to thailand, we all understand the fact that most thais if not 100% revere their king so much but what drove them in such desperation to literally go against the govt and the invisible hand of the king in the administration?

    JMD : My oh my… some people cannot accept other people’s opinion. Mojojojo is living abroad and I believe he is entitled to his opinion. You do not have to subrogate his opinions as BN’s or whatever it is you think this kind of thinking should be classified as. On another note, People’s Power taken to the extreme can be seen in Thailand in recent weeks. Actually People’s Power there is a movement to reinstall a leader besieged by corruption scandals to be the PM. According to his supporters, by hook or by crook, this leader should be the PM regardless what befalls the country. If you define democracy as change of governments through protests and riots, then I am afraid, you do not know the meaning of democracy. It is to ensure prosperity of a nation at all times. Instability caused by protests and riots is not in line with the spirit of democracy. You have general elections every five years. Use that to great effect. The streets are not the place to specify what democracy is. Please read here too for some further thoughts.

    Like

    • In a good discourse, he is entilted to his opinion and you are entitled to yours.

      In your reply you questioned “if the govt is good, why would the people protests?”

      Yes WHY? me too would like to know the truth to that question. BUT please answer it in an intelectual manner and not just quoting your opinion and make it as is it the the consensus of the public.

      So why do you think the people protest? Would you agree if I say they are misguided? or perhap they have been wronged? For what ever is worth please don’t leave the question unanswered.

      Like

      • why? aren’t you illiterate? please go and read for yourself. i am not in the charity biz to spoon feed you. if you got brain, please find out for yourself. but, i do hope you have brain.

        would you protest for no reason? unless you are as dumb as, you know which party lah.

        Like

  11. Hi JMD

    By the same token, the govt. must also acknowledge the value of opposition and treat it with respect. It takes 2 to tango.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. Respect must also be earned, not demanded. Being disrespectful to the government all the time will not help the opposition’s cause either. For instance, if I start to shout profanities to the commentators, I will certainly receive the same kind of treatment from them. But since this blog tries its best to keep things civil, only the most insolent will try to defecate this blog with their own brand of rudeness and obscenity. My point is, yes indeed it takes 2 to tango. Shall we dance?🙂

    Like

  12. Hi JMD

    My comments were directed at Mojojojo. So, perhaps you should let him reply in this interesting debate.

    What’s his answer to Royal Prof Ungku Aziz’s statement that there is no such Social Contract. None in M’sia is questioning the special position of the Malays or the concept of the NEP per se which I agree are provided for in our Constitution. It is the one-sided implementation of the NEP and the racist ‘Ketuanan Melayu’ (no mention in Constitution) concept that many of us cannot agree with.

    As to the main cause of the 69 riots, there was a recent book on it based on many declassified documents where there is even a theory of conspiracy to topple our beloved ‘Tunku.’

    My point about Thailand is that Democracy must be allowed to work for both sides; not just for those who used it to get in power and then cry foul and use water cannons and bullets when the Opposition uses it.
    http://donplaypuks.blogspot.com

    JMD : I was there at the forum in Blue Wave Hotel, Shah Alam where the panelists were Ungku Aziz, Tun Mahathir and Ismail Adam. It was chaired by Datuk Kadir Jasin. There was a lively Q&A session from the participants. Most of them are Malaysian graduates from East Asia universities. A question from the floor asked where is it stated in the Constitution about the social contract. Ungku Aziz said that there was no physical (written) social contract but rather it was a tacit agreement implied to all citizens from the day our nation was found. He further stated that ‘social contract’ should rather be called ‘economic contract’ where affirmative action (among them, Article 153 of the Constitution) is justified. The abuses in NEP had been documented in this blog long time ago. We all shared the resentment when some Umno leaders forgot their original role and became selfish in pursuit of wealth and power. The concept of Ketuanan Melayu became a sham especially when it comes from the same corrupted Umno leaders. How could they say such things when the majority of Malaysians are poor Malays? They need to steadily lift up the economic status of the Malays to be at par with other races before they can even begin to shout a clarion call to unite the Malays. I honestly feel there is nothing wrong in the Ketuanan Melayu concept. It is not about being superior against other people. It is a call to unite the Malays and be aware that they are lagging behind in the areas of economy. Politics aside, shouldn’t the Malays be united so that they can help one another and together make this country more prosperous? For far too long they had received help from the government to the detriment of their own survival. The NEP was a way to kickstart the participation of the poor people in nation building so that in the future, when they had achieved parity with other Malaysians, they can forego the NEP. But after nearly 40 years, they are still lagging behind. No thanks to the corrupted leaders in BN. The current leaders in Malaysia need to think about better ways to jumpstart the Malays. To me, the NEP policy is good. But like you said, the implementation process was often abused. I had written many times that leaders must be sincere in their political career. There is a slogan, ‘Perjuangan Belum Selesai’. But what is more crucial is to address a far more important question – ‘Untuk Apa Perjuangan?’. There can only be one correct answer to that. Thank you for the comments.

    Like

  13. Dear JMD,

    Please allow me to respond to donplaypuks.

    “But this is the same Rakyat who gave BN the majority at GE 2008 and the previous 50 years. Therefore, your condescending and paternalistic pronounciation is nothing more than that of someone who cannot accept it when the voters choose those whom you don’t like.

    The M’sian voter today is niether naive or confused. It’s more likely that it is you are who is trapped in time continuum warped space and who is refusing to accpet inevitable change. The rest have move forward to the new millennium and world of realpolitkk!”

    Who is trapped in a time continuum here? When did the realpolitik that you and the rest have moved on to arrive? In GE 12, which was just 4 years after GE11 when the opposition was truly thrashed? Then when the Rakyat did not vote those that you say we do not like or like included.

    “Take Thailand as an example. Abhisit who masterminded the sit in at bangkok Airport and brought down Thaksin with the connivance of the police and army at a cost of $ billions to the Thai Economy, is now crying foul at Thaksin using those same tactics which Abhisit said was part and parcel of democracy!

    So, sauce for th egoose is sauce for the gander!. And when UMNO/BN is no longer seen as representing the interests of the mass of the non-Malays AS WELL AS the Malays, then they will have to reckon with huge electoral losses as has just happened.

    It should not escape attention that the rise of violence in Malaysian politics coincides with the rise of PKR.” Hogwash Let’s not kid anyone.

    M’sian history and politics is replete with violence if you only care to look. There was that violence in 1969, engineered by an UMNO stalwart! PR does not advocate, condone pr practice violence.”

    We are talking about Democracy in our country. It would seem that you condone this kind of Democracy either way. Which is why in our Democracy it is imperative that we understand how country was born with a consitituition instituted by our founding fathers to ensure peace and prosperity for all. Should you take some time to be more objective and do some research, you would not have made this sweeping statement regarding the 513 episode. The reverse is true in that the spark that ignited the bomb were the very provoking acts of the opposition in their ‘victory’ celebrations. You would be advised to read articles in the Star by no less than Mr Oppostion himself, Tan Sri Tan Chee Khoon about Datuk Harun’s (who I believe you are referring to) actions before 513.The very deafening silence of the PKR leaders on the very insulting manner in which their supporters behaved towards the Sultan of Perak refutes your assertion.

    “What you want is to play act at Democracy so long as it suits you. But at the same time, you will use the ISA, OSA, Printing & Presses Act, arbitary Rural Banishment & Remand Orders to suppress Opposition and to keep yourself in power. And oh yes, of course the facade of Democracy is necessary to beg USA & Europe for FDI’s.”

    This part really made me LOL. The US administration with instigations of the very influential union AFLCIO, had always pressured Govts around the world, including Malaysia, with threats to withdraw the GSP. That was until Tun MM told them to fly a kite and to hell with the GSP. ‘Actually’ this facade was to beg for FDI from the USA with their Gautanamo Bay and Europe which stood idly by when women and children were raped in Bosnia. You would be surprised to find more draconian laws in the USA and Great Britain.

    “No, my friend, Democracy is only a concept. It takes Humans to make it work well. And for that to happen you need honesty, integrity and meritocracy to be so deeply ingrained in our national psyche, that we would struggle to breathe if it were compromised.”

    This is the only part where I woud agree with you and for Malaysians to make Malaysian Democracy work well.

    “A hotch-ptoch of imagined ’some more equal than others’ concept and a non-existent Social Contract bordering on a Master & Slave ideology is what is really at the root of your lamentation!”

    This part probably came out for lack of better things to say or writers block.

    Thanks and regards
    Freddie

    Like

    • i think the unruly umno youth has nothing got to do with the rise of PKR. the UMNO youth indeed has portrayed and acted like one when they protest here and there. aren’t the police having a treatment for UMNO, if you may be honest?

      JMD : Maybe you should ask your hero Khairy Jamaluddin on why he is getting special treatment by the police whenever he organised protests.

      Like

    • Very well written reply Freddie.

      If I might add, Donplaypuks said “….And oh yes, of course the facade of Democracy is necessary to beg USA & Europe for FDI’s.””.

      You seem to forget these Western powers declare their support of a particular Government not on the basis of how they treat their subjects, their concern and prime motivation is always economics.

      How else would you explain the British and American move against a democratically elected Iranian PM, Mossadegh, and replaced it with the tyrant Shah. Then there was the overthrow of Chile’s Allende in favour of Pinochet.

      In recent times, to secure America’s love for oil, they hardly if ever criticise Egypt and Saudi for human rights violation, needing Egypt’s Mubarak to quell the rising Islamic movement in Egypt and needing the Saudi’s support for their engagement in the Middle East. Despite Amnesty’s report condemning Israel for their treatment of Palestinians, the use of white phosphorus during the Lebanon war, the America refused to condemn israel.

      Germans and British were the biggest culprit in that they were the biggest suppliers of chemical weapons to Saddam’s regime during the Iran-Iraq war. They knowingly supplied chemical agents for use by Saddam forces against the Iranians.

      Which reminds me of a stinging statement made by Rafidah to Albright when the latter was critising Malaysia’s human right abuse by pointing out to America’s Guantanamo practices.

      Donplaypuks said “…M’sian history and politics is replete with violence if you only care to look. There was that violence in 1969, engineered by an UMNO stalwart!”. No country in the world that I know would denigrate local viewpoint of its own history and willingly swallow the colonial masters perspective.

      We still have people who went through the tragic episode of 13th May that would tell a different story from the conclusions reached by our colonial masters.

      By the way, saying that “Malaysian history and politics is replete with violence” and thereafter setting just one example is a bit of a contradiction dont you think ?

      Like

  14. JMD

    “Instability caused by protests and riots is not in line with the spirit of democracy. You have general elections every five years. Use that to great effect. The streets are not the place to specify what democracy is. Please read here too for some further thoughts.”

    don’t write so much of bullshit and rhetoric. can you 100% guarantee that our election is free and clean from stupid BN influence? you at the end of the day is to ensure that BN continue to rule and the opposition remains an opposition. am i right?

    well, i tell you, you are so screwed up arrogant and think that you know better than many people. protests and riots are not something to be glorified but when you pushed people to the corner, this is the only way you can react. look at how the BN has used the judges, police, FRU for their advantage? can you tell me that none of the govt agencies are used by the BN stupid screwed up govt to surpress the people? you are a broad day light liar, vipers and lie through your teeth to argue your case. sometimes, use your heart and conscience and not winning the arguments and delivering the points (manipulated for BN) to convince the people. human beings can see and they can feel with their heart.

    pls ask your mojojo to come back to malaysia to experience it for him/herself how the opposition are surpressed. i hope you really think and insaf. during the nite before you go to bed, ask yourself are you writing this to manipulate the mind of your readers or are you so caught up with your rhetoric.

    you kept on mentioning BN/UMNO warlords. let me tell you who they are, they are indeed the warlords now leading the UMNO and same with the MCA. there is 1 way, to remove them completely. UMNO is beyond redemption. same goes with MCA and MIC.

    JMD : Friend, what are you moaning about? Free elections again? If the elections are not free then how could the opposition won 5 states in the last general elections and all the by-elections after that? You are not being consistent in your argument my friend. Same goes with the judiciary. How could explain the release of Anwar Ibrahim and RPK from jail by the same judiciary? Please stop being arrogant and being rude to other people. There was no need to write the way you did. Was I being rude in my previous reply to you? It is this kind of reaction which defies propriety that makes people loathe the Pakatan supporters. When one trying to give out opinion, please discuss them in a civilised way. In all my life in Malaysia, I have not seen ‘rakyat’ pushed to a corner. What I normally saw was the Opposition’s supporters creating havoc on the streets. I thought the opposition here have not been suppressed at all. They could even form state governments! You must have mistaken our country’s opposition with Singapore’s. Tyring to create something out of nothing is indeed the modus operandi of people like you which we have come to know about for so many years. This is the only way to gain support. Lastly my friend, please do not be naive to think that warlords only exists in BN…🙂

    Like

    • have you ever watch tv on how other protester outside Malaysia being treated? Been to Gaza? Have you seen how the Palastinians being treated? Have you see how the recent riot in Thai? Spot any difference?

      Nobody is pushed to the corner. If pushed, might we would have seen ALL protesters, oppositions jailed and convicted to any kind of crime. If being pushed to the corner, we would have seen riots got shot by guns and pistols.

      If the democracy do not exist, I would say the states won by opposition is fictitious and not true. We would have seen re-election in those states until Barisan won and control ALL the states. I would also say that, IF democracy do not exist, Barisan would accuse Pakatan having pengundi hantu wherever they lose.

      But did they? Please indulge me jebat’s fren. I would like to see any Barisan say that democracy do not exist when they lose. Please…

      Like

      • hi jmd

        winning the 5 states does not mean the election is totally free. maybe you should look at it in another angle, if without cheating, malaysia today should have been ruled by PR. the judiciary will try all their magic but at times when they couldn’t, then that’s the reason why things happened the way it is. don’t you realise the reality is that there is no 100% corrupt but what you are seeing in the release of anwar and RPK could be just the small percentage of the opposite.

        have you indeed answered my question about govt did use fru, police and judges at their disposal? i just need yes or no answer.

        well, i saw many havocs and troubles created by UMNO youth and more damaging then the normal road protests. the PR wanted to have peace walk but it was the police who fired tear gas to them and beat them up. but when umno youth start to amok, the police just smile and let them do what they want to do. so now, i really want to know the loathe towards UMNO youth are greater or the loathe towards PR? well, God is real, even with all these propaganda that the govt has implemented and all the cheating, He is still able to do something.

        helo onda
        you think the govt fru wouldn’t do the same thing to the protesters from PR. it’s a matter of time. but at the meantime trying to buy the vote and sympathy from the voters, reserve their strength a bit. comparing to Gaza? why not you compare with other western countries? the point is that how did the FRU treat the UMNO youth protesters vis-a-vis the PR supporters? do you have eyes to see? i know consience wise, yours is seared but how about your physical eyes, can’t you see it? do you know why with so much of cheating, the PR can still win a bit? bcos there are many more people who supports the PR and that overwhelming has reduced some undi hantu a fair bit.
        abang, undi hantu created by who?
        if opposition is not pushed to the corner, why would ahmad ismail not jailed but teresa and the reporter is protected by the police by sending them to ISA? it’s a big joke, bang onda.

        JMD : I really hope that you should be consistent in your logic. If you say, the elections are totally free, Malaysia would have been in the hands of the opposition by now. By your admission, the government will try very best to cheat in the elections at National level. In your logic, because they cheat in every election, they won it handsomely everytime. But why my dear friend, they could not win in a by-election? Wouldn’t it be easier to cheat in a small by election rather than in a nation-wide election? Hence, I find it hard to swallow your argument that BN cheated all this while. How could you better explain the loss of 5 states plus 4 by elections since March 2008 without telling us that BN cheated? I am sure that is not the case.

        As to your other question, it is not Umno who use FRU pr police at its disposal. It is the government’s right to use their own government agencies to quell unruly behavior. For instance, police do give permits for gatherings. But when these permits were abused and the so called peaceful protests became a riot, then by all means, the police or the FRUs will be used to bring back order. In the anti PPSMI protest the other day, permit was given for them to gather near Masjid Negara. But when these overzealous protesters began to march towards Istana Negara and protesting loudly in the streets causing massive traffic jams and disrupting the peace, then shouldn’t the police be given the mandate to disperse these recalcitrants from disturbing the lives of other people? In September 2008, after Anwar Ibrahim left Dataran Merdeka, he actually urged the public to ‘show their displeasure’ towards the then PM. Some went on and destroyed public property and set fire to vehicles during Madeleine Albright’s visit. Is that permissible?

        Jebat’s Fren, like I said before, democracy, among other things means the right to voice out displeasure. But it does not mean the right to create havoc and disturb the lives of other people!

        Like

        • wahai rakan jebat (jebat’s fren),
          Kalau takde orang langgar peraturan, tiada lah kena tangkap. Macam isu protesters, kalau buat secara betul ,ada permit dan aman, adakah orang yang kena tangkap?

          Contoh: Perhimpunan bantah PPSMI. Poliskan dah bagi permit untuk berhimpun di masjid. Yang duk pegi berarak ke Istana tu sape suruh? Tiada dalam permit. Kalau dah diblok pun dilanggar, nak halang pakai apa? Itu pun nasib la pakai gas pemedih mata. Kalau pakai bom macam mana? Pakai peluru hidup macam mana? Kena belasah macam kat negara-negara lain yang macam anda katakan tu macam mana? Nak sangat ke?

          Dah ada peraturan, ikut sahajalah. Demokrasi jangan disalahgunakan.

          Ohya, ramai sokong Pakatan? Berapa ramai? Pakatan kuasai 13 buah negeri dan 1 negarakah masa PRU12? Baru 5 negeri dah kira ramai? Yang Barisan menang 8 negeri tu macam mana? Tak ramai?

          Ramai dimatamu tidak bererti ramai dimata orang lain. Hormati juga pilihan orang lain.

          PRU dah tamat. Baiklah kita sama-sama gi buat keje untuk majukan Malaysia dari terus soal itu soal ini. Ok Jebat’s fren? PRU13 lambat lagi. Dah sampai masa, undilah anda sepuas hati. Pakatan menang nanti, buat pembaharuan untuk rakyat sebagaimana yang Pakatan janjikan.

          Jangan jadi periuk mengata belanga, atau jangan jadi tikus membaiki labu sudah lah.

          Like

          • abang onda, please calculate popular vote lah. the rest of the states are small states and at this moment, the 8 states could be under BN, but the next round it can be the other way round, though.

            if you go by popular votes, maybe BN can become opposition in malaysia. why not do away with postal votes and all army/police votes to be observed by independent party and their votes from day 1, will be tagged to their registered place; similar to ordinary folks like us. forget about those civil servant (their votes) serving outside malaysia since many malaysians residing in malaysia are not allowed to post their votes.

            do things in real transparent manner and you will see the actual results. if you are not a fanatics of UMNO and neutral about elections, i am sure you agree with me on this point.

            the same group of cabinet (almost 80-90%) ministers that couldn’t perform under badawi, think they can perform now?

            if you are a bad worker in bank muamalat, you think when you go to al-rajhi, you can become an excellent worker? do you need me to teach you about competency and work performance?

            Like

            • Hmm..I wonder if Terengganu, Johor, Pahang, Sabah and Sarawak are small to you, as I can recall, Barisan won majority. In addition with winning Parliamentary seats.

              Macam nilah JF (jebat’s fren), we can continue comparing numbers and figures on determining “ramai”, but both have “ramai” supporters.

              How about, as my suggestion in my blog, both Pakatan and Barisan work on the betterment of area possessed thru PRU12 and PRKs. Let’s the work done do the talking.

              But, just hoping that neither is claiming for what is done from the other side. A friend of mine told me that Program Amal Jariah initiated by Government (I use “government”, as the program is beyond political boundaries) to repair hardcore poor houses, has been informed to certain part of the country as DS Anwar’s concern and effort on hardcore poor. C’mon la. The Program is designed beyond political boundaries. Why make such claims whenever the fund is not yours? You can check at http://www.amaljariah.com.my for further clarifications.

              Ok JF? Just let both really carry out their job and responsibilities, and let rakyat to interprete in the next GE. Ok?

              Like

  15. you want to know about discrimination ….. JMD

    any of your parents have joined the civil service or not?

    my dad used to (and some of colleague’s parents) be with the airforce. i tell you this is real discrimination. my dad was never treated fairly and not given promotion because he is not a melayu. even my colleague’s dad is an indian muslim but not promoted, you know why, because he is not a melayu.

    if you haven’t experienced this yourself, don’t tell me cock and bull story. screw you.

    i don’t blame the malays and his superiors then, i blame it on UMNO playing the racial cards to cause the malays to be so racist. is this enough?

    is this the type of democracy are you talking about? uMNO full of shit….

    JMD : Wow.. I can imagine you’re frothing in the mouth while typing this… which underneath all the misplaced anger, is just another sidetracking effort from you. Like I said before, you cannot blame the civil service but at the same time keeping mum over the discrimination in the private sector. Please do not impose your chauvinistic holier than thou attitude here when you are clearly the one who needs help. If you think that discussing democracy is a cock and bull story, then you only have to disengage yourself from participating. It is sad that those who think they know what democracy means felt the need to chastise people from discussing what democracy is all about. I do not understand why this article brings out the worst in some people.

    Like

    • Whoaa.. hold on there…

      I see different view from yours as my parents were also serving the nation in uniforms, but never told by them on discrimination by race on ranks and promotion. In fact, they have superiors from other races. No discrimination what so ever. So, what about that?

      C’mon la bro..if discrmination is the issue, why do uniform bodies such as PDRM urged other races to join in? We can see high ranks officers from other races too since 1957. Ever hear Tan Sri Khoo Chong Kong? Do you ever read “Nation before Self” written by Yuen Yuet Leng? Ever read “Memories Of Early Life And 33 Years In Police Force” written by S.K Puvaneswaran? Are the writers a malay or bumiputera? Are the writers an UMNO member?

      So, you see, the so called “discrmination” is not due to race or skin colours.

      Thank you.

      Like

    • Oh, a little correction Dato Seri Yuen Yuet Leng. And Tan Sri Khoo Chong Kong killed by the communist ya.

      Racist? Discrmination in force?

      You make me laugh la jebat’s fren. Perhaps I can say, in working towards promotion, there are various factors that leads to promotion or demotion of someone. Don’t simply put the blame on race.

      Uniform bodies supposed to act professionally and act to protect the nation and people. If riots occure and not stopped by the armed forces or police, I will say, it does not worthwhile of having them to keep peace in our country.

      I wonder, if any police do not act to protect, will you feel safe to live and breathe in this country? What will you do when you got robbed?

      C’mon la bro…

      Like

    • JMD,

      It is very strange that the people who claim to fight for freedom of speech seemed to be the most intolerant lot. Any divergence from their viewpoint dosn’t invite clear arguments from them but curses.

      The same people who claim to champion democracy, but insist that BN fold up and just allow Pakatan to rule the country without an opposition.

      JMD : As we all know Lekiu, the opposition is never interested in walking the talk. Freedom of speech only applies to them🙂

      Like

  16. “….I am of the view that the kind of democracy that Malaysia should be is the one that has been decided by our leaders who negotiated Malaysia’s independence.”

    And what democracy is that??

    JMD : Did you stop reading right after that paragraph? Continue on please.

    Like

  17. My, my. Look at Jebat’s Fren. Papa not promoted and entire generations feel the bahang. Let me teach a thing or two here, Jebat’s fren. Your papa, sad to say, might not be promotional material at all, and that’s why he didnt get promoted. You think just because he is an Indian or a chinese, then the rights and privileges of being promoted is his, no matter how bad a performance he might make? Tch tch tch. So simple one, aaa, to turn around and pull the discrimination rabbit from out of hat?

    I have known and met high-ranking officers from chinese and indian descents before in our armed forces. Hmm… something must be very wrong in the system if THEY get promotions. I mean, according to your screwed-up theory laaa.

    We might politically preserve ASKAR MELAYU DIRAJA by the way, but all other arms of the armed forces are open to all. Err by the way, if the number of chinese and indians who join the forces TO PROTECT THE NATION number so little initially, would you expect those little in numbers be promoted en masse?

    Oh by the way, haven’t you heard of Commodore Thanabalasingam? This is the highest rank in the Malaysian Navy. We are talking about the admiralcy here.

    Compare this woth your idol nation, Singapore. Read what their prime minister said about not letting malays (the original inhabitants, mind you) become strong in the armed forces simply because they dont trust them?

    Consequently, have your father (or you yourself in this case) thought about migrating? Singapore has some vacancies for high-ranking generals of Indian and Chinese descents, last I heard. But first you must wash your mouth with Chili, or else they won’t let you register there.

    Like

    • haha …. if you are of the other side of the fence, you won’t admit the fact there is form of racism happens cos it’s the very practice that keeps you where you are. ever wonder if there is no form of racism, why are there so lil non-malays wanting to join the uniform body? the number is declining over the years. of course there are some high ranking officers that are not non-malays but till now, you still don’t get the message when the superiors are promoting based on race, it’s so obvious that who will get the carrot and who will always remain. Thana is just the 1 or 2 that you know, how about the remaining highest rank in the navy? second level, third level?

      that’s the problem with your narrow mind that when we debate about something, ppl like you (with some moron UMNO MPs) always shout “go to singapore” and that proves how lil you respect citizens of other race. can i tell you to go back to indonesia where your few generations ago papa and mama belongs? aren’t you indon if you study your family line? i really feel like laughing when ppl like you kept on asking others to balik here and balik there. maybe you should balik indonesia and visit your relatives.

      talking about work performance, you yourself know how much can you do …….

      whenever we talk about having equality in malaysia, ppl like you never failed to mention about the singapore PM said this and that about the malays. is it some form of a payback hatred/vengeance that you guys have just bcos singapore PM (so happen to be a chinese) perceived to be bullying the malays and you guys turnaround to torture the chinese in malaysia?

      now i know why the extreme ppl like you want to go all out to show the might of malays (even though many not aligning to your idealism) and shout ketuanan melayu and want to tikam your keris on us. i thought ppl like you should have extinct some time back, didn’t know still got some of you around.

      Like

      • walaweh,
        the other side of the fence eh?

        If then, how about my parents non-bumi superiors during their serving years? I know there’s plenty who got promoted.

        Perhaps, in indirect way, perhaps your parents were one of those who did not get promoted..including the bumis who didn’t get promoted..

        Kalau macam tu, lagi ramai bumiputera yang tak promoted sampai pencen. My uncle, a malay, daripada mula serve, sampai la pencen, lans koperal je pangkatnya. Was he being discriminated?

        C’mon bro..x semua keje mesti end up as bosses. Jangan sebab your parents don’t get promoted, you put the blame on race and skin color. Unfair and biased comments la.

        I guess even a list of non-bumis listed as high rank officers pun you x nak terima..sebab in your mind set, the number will be not enough. Jangan la badan beruniform yang kerja untuk rakyat pun nak dipolitikkan.

        Kalau ya racist, there will no offer or campaign for non-bumi to join the forces in the first place. Kalau ya racist, I think your parents would be removed from the service for “misconduct” and even getting pension (dah kalau racist la sangat, boleh aje create reasons).

        But do they get their pensions? Do they being removed from the force due to any discipline matters?

        Do you ever think about that?

        Like

        • Sorry, ada ralat sket..

          should be “If then, how about my parents having non-bumi superiors during their serving years? I know there’s plenty who got promoted.

          Not “If then, how about my parents non-bumi superiors during their serving years? I know there’s plenty who got promoted”

          Like

  18. Hi JMD

    Damn good discussion what! I like the open forum here.

    As I said earlier, no Malaysian has disputed the special rights of the Malays and the implied affirmative action policies as stated in the Constitution. We don’t need to talk about nebulous unwritten ‘Social Contract’ when it’s carved in stone in our Constitution.

    Even if the Constitution were silent on this issue, in practice we would need it. There is no way any country can prgress economically and meaningfully, if 50% of its populace owned less than 20% of the economic cake.

    What I really have a problem with is Ketuanan Melayu. Would that M’sia were like USA or Australia at its inception with only 1 weak minority race to contend with. But wishful indulgent thinking must be shelved in favour of the reality of history and to that extent Malaysia’s racial composition is unique like no other.

    To me Ketuanan Melayu translates as Malay Masters or Mastery, and that’s a ‘Master and Slave’ or ‘Tuan dan Hamba’ relationship desire. Whatever spin you put on it, that’s what it communicates as.

    When Hitler talked about a Master Race, it led to Nazism, World War 2, the Holocaust as well as the ethnic cleansing of Germany. Can it happen in Malaysia? I doubt it! But, in modern times, we have seen what that kind of call by Karadic & Co did to Bosnian Muslims.

    If the Malays need a rallying call, what better than Hang Tuah’s ‘Tak kan Bangsa Melayu hilang di dunia ini.’ I support it. But in a 1 Malaysia, 1 Nation, race will have to take second place! That’s my humble view.
    http://donplaypuks.blogspot.com

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. My earlier reply about Ketuanan Melayu implies. What we need is sensitivity and awareness among everyone here. As racism begets racism, there is a need to highlight the problem on why some quarters are calling the abolishment of Article 153 or other special rights in the Constitution and some are calling the other faction as chauvinistic whilst trying to preempt any malicious intent to change the Constitution by shouting Ketuanan Melayu.

    Like

  19. I have no problem with Art 153 or other special rights in the Constitution. As I said, even if it were not there, we would still require it to address economic imbalances and affirmative action.

    We need more fair-minded people to implement the NEP which has been grossly abused.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. Let us now with thankfulness… praise the founders of our ‘school’?🙂

    Like

  20. JMD – yes indeed, let’s tango! I believe the Opposition earned their respect from the rakyat, who I hasten to add are neither stupid nor naive, by voting for them in 2008 GE. I, like many observers, was bemused by the double standards practised by the Speaker and his deputies in dealing with BN and Opposition MPs. That is not respect. Throwing Teresa Koh into Kamunting, together with the Sinchew reporter who reported the “squatter” incident is not respect. Also, the govt. would do themselves a favour by answering allegations in and out of Parliament. Whatever, we now have a two-party system in Parliament and that is surely healthy for democracy and for the country. I remember when Tony Blair first led his New Labour Party to a landslide victory even his own Labour supporters bemoaned the party’s overwhelming majority, fearing abuse of governance. Finally, the few protest marches we have had started peacefully, but the use of tear gas and water cannon caused the havoc that ensued. Whew, sure enjoyed that tango!

    JMD : To begin with, Tony Blair party was the one who had helped to destroy Iraq like what had happened after 2003. As the result, the abuse of governance he had beholden himself to could not even save him from being thrown out of the government. This is one example how too much power can make everyone lose sight of the overall goal of good governance – to make the people prosper and happy. Bulldozing his way without proper regard to the feelings of his own people will make a lot of people unhappy. Yes, respect is needed. Like I said before, not only from the government but from the opposition as well. When rule of law is flaunted to begin with, then there is a justifying reason to dispense some form of control. Since when Malaysia allow mass protests and illegal gatherings? Peacefully or not, there are laws that must be followed. Rule breakers need to be punished don’t they? Whenever there is a total disregard of respecting the law, what kind of example does the opposition trying to show? If they control the federal government, then they have the right to amend the laws (I really doubt this). But in the mean time, one must respect all the laws. The BN speaker had dealt severely to BN MPs in the parliament before. But when an opposition MP rather rudely accused the PM as a murderer (without even a shred of proof), is that what we call respecting each other? No wonder he is thrown out of the parliament. And to show how meek that person is, he cited immunity in Parliament to defend himself from giving out any justifications to his act. That is not respect. That is just being insolent. You wanted the government to answer allegations but that opposition MP cheekily did not want to talk about the accusation outside Parliament! But that is not the bulk of it. Not one opposition leader had apologised on behalf of their followers from the blatant violent act against royalty on the afternoon February 6th outside the Perak palace. Not only the opposition is disrespecting the royalty, they are also extremely arrogant in their inability to recognise their own mistake. Moreover, they claim that they are on the right path! Did you hear any opposition apologise for the ‘penderhakaan’ of their supporters (trying to cause bodily harm towards the royalty)? I sure did not.

    I said earlier that bulldozing one’s way is not the right thing to do. Especially if you are doing the wrong things. The previous administration had clearly erred in their governing ways. Hopefully with this new leadership, things are going to be much better. Above all, there are rules to be followed. Democracy is a delicate thing that no one from the either side of the political spectrum must abuse. The other slightly more than half of the voting electorates are neither naive nor stupid either. That was why they voted for BN in 2008. I doubt with the kinds of attitude I mentioned above, they are going to start respecting the opposition from now on. Thank you and have a good day.

    Like

  21. Democracy is probably the most misunderstood word in the whole universe. Even the Americans (USA) who claim to practice the purest form of democracy are themselves confused. Fifty percent of them claim they are Democrats and another fifty percent claim they are Republicans. They are also war criminals for causing thousands of innocents citizens and children to die in Iraq, Palestine, Afganistan in the name of democracy. They are the biggest culprits in human rights violations. The proud British are as clueless. Some call themselves Conservatives while a few others as Liberals. The communists also claim they practiced democracy and so do other dictators like Sadam Hussein.

    Who are we to say that democracy in Malaysia is dead because of ISA, because of affirmative action, because of lack of transparency, human rights violation, controlled press etc etc. We have to accept the limitation of democracy for the good of the majority, for the security, prosperity and well being of the nation. If we are to believe everything about what the opposition has said, Malaysia would have been in the pit decades ago. The fact that Malaysia is one of the fastest growing economy in the world is proof that democracy in this country is alive and vibrant. It is always the foreigners who appreciate us more than the locals.

    Like

    • did the govt use ISA on its own people, UMNO and its supporters?

      did the mainstream newspaper only talks about the good thing about BN?

      is our govt very transparent?

      does our BN govt value human rights? how, by protecting teresa under isa?

      limitation of democracy pushed and propagated by BN is to ensure that they are in power for the rest of the time.

      maybe if the earlier generations have supported and let the opposition run the govt, our country won’t be as screwed up at present day.

      haha, fastest growing economy? are you very well informed in finance and economics? faster compared to myanmar, that’s for sure.

      foreigners appreciate us in what sense arr? politically? the foreigners are more interested to make as much money and ciao, sayonara. it’s the present us that have to deal with all these mess. would you care about the politics of another country?

      JMD : Yes, the government used ISA on UMNO members too. Should I spoon feed you on this one or should I actually reveal the names of Umno leaders who had been detained under the ISA. Do you homework and please list them out here in your next comment. Your hypothesis regarding the opposition’s ability to rule is at most only an estimate. You neither have a time machine nor any ability to be clairvoyant. Therefore, your argument about the Malaysia will fare better if it had been ruled by the opposition is purely hogwash.

      Like

      • woh woh woh….jmd, you seem to like interfering with my reply to the commentators. let us have some nice chit chat lah.

        when it comes to your turn, i will ask you. don’t have to be so impatient.

        you talk about my hypothesis about having opposition to rule. don’t you do the same with your own hypothesis of “let najib and the rest do their job”. can they? are they capable? don’t you also hope that they will do a good job? isn’t that assumption too?

        bro, how many UMNO leaders arrested under ISA compared to the opposition? give me a ratio will do.

        oh yeah, give me your view on ISA pertaining to Teresa? don’t beat round the bush? right or wrong or is it called for? since you are so eager to reply me🙂

        JMD : As far as I’m concerned, blogs are public domain, anybody can access and read it’s contents and they can respond and interject to the writings freely including myself, the blog owner. Nobody stopped you from responding to any of the comments or articles before.

        By the way, whenever you post your comments here, why do I have a feeling that I am responding to a 10 year old? Don’t you have any strong points to bring out? You are actually want to debate on the word ‘hypothesis’? My friend, you ASSUMED that the opposition would have fared better should it had governed Malaysia decades ago. This opposition consisting of DAP and PAS will develop Malaysia much better than BN would. This to me, is your own misguided hypothesis. Why do I say it is misguided? Because you did not provide credible assumptions to base your own opinion. Like I said before, since you yourself do not have any inkling on what kind of assumptions and analytical review to make in order to justify your highly presumptive claim, then I must say that you cannot, in a million years predict what WOULD HAVE HAPPENED in the past. Hence, I find it laughable when you try to equate your overzealous presumption / hypothesis with my opinion that Najib should be given a chance. Friend, that is not a hypothesis. That is a downright statement of intent. Hypothesis would be telling the world that ‘Najib will be better than all the previous Prime Ministers’ or even ‘The Opposition would have been the best government in the world’. See the difference? Hoping Najib will do a good job is not an assumption my friend. An assumption is actually to think that you are high on drugs while writing this comment of yours. Hoping Najib will do a good job is just hope and desire to see a better Malaysia. But of course, you people will ASSUME that he will fumble and make blunders all the way. You people will always hope that he will make more mistakes. You people desire to see Malaysia unable to progress under Najib because you are hoping that you will take over the government. You have a lot of questions. But failed to answer any one that is being asked to you. Plus, you cannot ask questions but refuse to listen to the answers either. You hinted previously that the govt never arrest its own members under the ISA. Now that you had failed to provide us with list of Umno members who had been detained under the ISA and unashamedly asking me to provide you with the names and ratio instead, then I believe you have now erred in your earlier judgment that Umno never arrest its members. By embarrassingly asking me to spoon-feed you with the names, then I believe you may now cut the lies that only opposition members get detained. My friend, if you break the laws governed by the ISA, you will be hauled up, no matter who you are. A very high ranking Umno leader today (a minister in fact) was detained under the ISA about 10 years ago. Another MP in the current Parliament was detained under the ISA when he was a full fledged Umno member 20 years ago. Did you know that a political secretary was detained under the ISA the morning his boss (the PM) scheduled to take the oath as the Prime Minister? Many other Umno members were detained under the ISA. If you do not break the laws, then why should you be subjected to ISA? Teresa Kok’s detention was the epitome of Pak Lah’s stupidity. Probably you can tell this directly to KJ. As for your other misguided question (did the mainstream newspaper only talks about the good thing about BN?), I think we can safely say that the mainstream media did hold a balance view. Untill Pak Lah’s band of advisers and spinmasters stepped in and overhauled the mainstream media. By the way, have the media controlled by the opposition ever say bad things about the opposition? I do not think so. Thank you for participating in this blog of mine.

        Like

  22. Democracy is probably the most misunderstood word in the whole universe. Even the Americans (USA) who claim to practice the purest form of democracy are themselves confused. Fifty percent of them claim they are Democrats and another fifty percent claim they are Republicans. They are also war criminals for causing thousands of innocents citizens and children to die in Iraq, Palestine, Afganistan in the name of democracy. They are the biggest culprits in human rights violations. The proud British are as clueless. Some call themselves Conservatives while a few others as Liberals. Am I surprise when the local opposition is also as confused in respects to democracy practiced in Malaysia.

    Like

  23. I’m enjoying this tango so much I don’t want it to end!

    1. Tony Blair and the Iraq war. He took his country to war with the aid of the Opposition, the Conservatives, when it was put to vote in Parliament. A large number of his backbenchers rebelled, and two of his Cabinet, Claire Short and the late Robin Cook, resigned. This happened during his 3rd term in office when his majority was slim.

    2. Protest marches and democracy. As Gordon Brown recently said at the G20 Summit: protest is healthy for democracy. If not for protest we would not have the freedom we enjoy today. (A protestor died in this demonstration and there is now a police enquiry). A classic example is the right of women to vote. If not for the suffragettes women would not have the right to vote let alone be MPs and leaders.

    3. The Speaker. If a tally were taken I’m convinced his bias towards BN MPs far outweighs his prejudice towards Opposition MPs.

    4. Behaviour towards royalty. I do not condone violence and threats, but the royals are also humans and it is human to err. If the people feel he has erred they have the right, in a democracy, to protest. We have reached a point where there is no longer unconditional and unreserved respect for hierarchy.

    Thanks, JMD, for this open forum for us to agree to disagree. For this, I respect you and the views you hold.

    JMD : Thank you for commenting, similar to my reply to Jebat’s Fren above and comments from Freddie Kevin below, democracy does not mean the right to unleash havoc. What more, preople are uncessarily killed while rioting and lost or property via damage and looting. Yes protest are healthy for democracy, but it must be held under the rule of law. Permits are required everytime and rules of public gatherings must be adhered to. Violence and threats are certainly not part of democracy. You cannot equate the right to protest to riots and mass violence (we see that everytime the opposition took to the streets).

    Like

  24. Don’tplaypuks, you have been trumpeting the social contract doesnt exist, the social contract doesnt exist, and I have replied you here (Saturday, April 11, 2009 11:20:00 AM) and still you tumpet it around hoping to get to more audience. Well your more audience deserve to know too what my thoughts are.

    And Kathy, please dont say rakyat this and rakyat that and put words in their mouth. I am a rakyat, and I succumb least to any of your ideas, as do millions of others too. And if I were the government, Kamunting is heaven compared to where I would throw Theresa Kok into, when she had acted treasonously in slandering the Malaysian government to foreigners regarding the “ear squat” issue, when she told the world that Malaysia oppresses Chinese captives and then it later turned out that it was a malay who was forced to do ear squats. In some countries including the US, treason is punishable by death.

    Like

  25. Hi JMD,

    A little correction for your reply to jebat’s fren in reply #5692. You wrote:
    Like I said before, you cannot blame the civil service but at the same time keeping mum over the discrimination in the public sector.

    Perhaps you were in hurry. Did you mean:
    Like I said before, you cannot blame the civil service but at the same time keeping mum over the discrimination in the private sector.

    ???

    Thank you.

    JMD : Thank you Joe for the correction. It was written in haste indeed.

    Like

  26. We need qualified, educated, matured strong oppositions who are robust, intelligent and able to contribute, in THE DEWAN.

    I see none from our oppositin with any of the above qualities.

    Sad.

    Like

  27. Let it be known that Malaysia belongs to UMNO. UMNO is ABOVE the law so are all UMNO apparatuses. UMNO and its apparatuses can say anything and do anything and incite racial sentiments and its perfectly legal. IGP has already warned not to raise anything seditious – and that is meant for all and sundry except UMNO and its apparatuses. That is why we can read various articles inciting racial hatred in their papers and no actions are forthcoming. And don’t forget one thing. It’s the whistle blower who is always guilty. And if you talk much make sure that you don’t get arrested for you might end up like Kugan. Being kuganed is common these days. Beware!

    JMD : It is indeed refreshing to read about how opporesive BN is and how it oppose any dissent at the risk of going to jail. But at the same time people who write all these dissenting views can walk free and lead their normal lives. Earning money doing just about anything they want. Some are even working in government agencies themselves! An oxymoron?

    Like

  28. Dear JMD,

    May I add to Ms Kathy.

    1) “I believe the Opposition earned their respect from the rakyat”

    In GE 11 whatever semblence of an opposition in Parliament could not possibly have the impact on the electorate, in terms of respect, to achieve the results of GE 12. From a landslide GE 11 to a watershed in GE 12 can only mean one thing – disenchantment of the electorate towards the Govt of the day.

    2) “bemused by the double standards practised by the Speaker and his deputies in dealing with BN and Opposition MPs”

    If the members of the august house, be it opposition or backbenchers, were to conduct themselves in a manner befitting their their status as MPs and to abide by Parliamentary procedures,convention and protocol, the Speaker would undoubtedly have an easier task and would not be perceived as being ‘double standard’. Even before being sworn-in, we hear about opposition members questioning the attire and threats of boycotts for some reason or another.

    3) “Throwing Teresa Koh into Kamunting, together with the Sinchew reporter who reported the “squatter” incident is not respect”

    It had nothing to do with respect, it was plain stupidity. Hopefully the new Home Minister would be more discerning.

    4) “Also, the govt. would do themselves a favour by answering allegations in and out of Parliament”

    There have been instances where MPs, from both sides of the divide who have done so. In reality, any MP would have to be absolutely certain in will and conviction to do so because there would be no immunity from legal action or the rule of law. Gobind’s utterances towards Datuk Najib in Paliarment, as mentioned, is a fine case to point.

    5) “Whatever, we now have a two-party system in Parliament”

    It has not been tested. What we actually have is a loose coalition of opposition parties, Pakatan Rakyat and one ruling party,the Barisan Nasional. Only time will tell whether the MPs of Pakatan Rakyat will follow the opposition whip, should an issue arise that will be detrimental to supporters DAP and PAS or even the PKR. The US is fundamentally two party but in Great Britain there has been times of a coalition Govts.

    6) “the few protest marches we have had started peacefully, but the use of tear gas and water cannon caused the havoc that ensued.” In our country as in others, there can be no peaceful protests as long as agitators and fanatics exist. The very real danger of harm or even death to innocent by-standers when things get out of hand, must weigh heavily. In OUR democracy, as proven in the past – patience, understanding, compromise and consensus – this has always been a successful formula to resolve. Not by taking it to the streets, where anything can happen. Can you guarantee it would be peaceful? Can anybody?

    Thank you
    Freddie

    JMD : Thank you Freddie for the comment.

    Like

  29. JMD,

    this topic is well discussed. what is distressing for me at the moment is that, you said to give the current PM (Najib) a chance to prove himself along with his cabinet. Please brother….the first thing that I saw was seeing him announcing the dismantling MECD on the pretext of lowering down the numbers of ministers and what was announced next is the farming out of the different related agencies/department under MECD to the different ministries and what I see is he (the PM) who is also the Minister to MOF took all the agencies that is “cash cow” while giving away all the “non cash cow” to other ministries. PNS-currently sitting on a pile of cash, UDA which is sitting on commercial assets which is cash generating (thru rental and advertising) and holds prime real estate in its portfolio, Bank Rakyat which takes in lots of cash deposit monthly thru coop members subscriptions that also holds gold portfolio from its ar rahnu businesess, the SEDCs that hold the budget and rights to develop state projects on state land.

    Hmmm.. you seriously think PM is cleaning up his “act”? Geez, how lah to think that PM and his UMNO cohorts is really working towards 1 Malaysia? Rakuslah brother….

    Keturunan Jebat

    JMD : Your point is noted. But will the new PM heed this advice? I am similarly peeved that some advisers from the old regime (the 4th floor boys) are still running about dictating policies.

    Like

  30. salam JMD,

    Artikel di atas kalau nak buat paper untuk hantar dalam kelas mgmt atau kelas sains politik oklah. Observation saje. Politik ni cerita aje. Penghujungnya ialah bagaimana negara di perintah. Kalau pm sekarang masih perlu masa untuk belajar jadi pm walaupun dan 6 tahun jadi dpm, habis lah kita. Selagi Najib masih beri muka (atau pengecut untuk ambil tindakan) kepada orang politik dan kerajaan yang dok makan rasuah dan salah guna kuasa, habis lah kita. Ketuanan melayu ke, affirmative action ke, bumiputra ke, semua boleh masuk Sg Melaka. Apa hal ali rastam, shahidan, khairy, etc etc masih lagi berada di depan dalam politik Malaysia? Apahal geng geng kat treasury, epu, dan bank negara tu di simpan. Nak teruskan polisi pm dulu ke? Dah terang nak kena pakai lampu lagi ke. Cakap nak tukar strategi, tapi pakai otak orang yang sama. Kalau tak tukar strategy asas dengan menukar geng geng lama ni, selagi tulah Umno dan barisan akan di buli oleh pkr yang sudah tentu di sokong oleh orang business yang dah fed up dengan cara berfikir dalam kepongong tukang fikir baik dalam kabinet/politik atau pegawai kerajaan/”adviser yang di lantik. ok lah mungkin najib ada strategi rahsia yang kita tak tahu. Kalau dalam masa 3-4 bulan ni tak ada apa apa perubahan dalam senario politik dan ekonomi negara, dengan umno, barisan dengan najib sekali pengundi akan humban dalam Sg Melaka.

    salam

    Like

  31. dude …thats a life.. some people need attention, some people need power to show their colors.. but for me when u in a right way to give our malaysian happy.. why we need to change our government…

    Like

  32. Assaalamualaikom, I went through about half the comments. So, are men created equal? Where did the term “my better half” came from? And if you are a fan of P Ramlee’s Nujum Pak Belalang, you will find the similarities when we read sentences that say, malaysians now are more intelligent. Thats was why the Sultan saw what was in the nujum’s bowl. He too wanted to be intelligent.

    Like

  33. he he… I was about to comment on the definition of “groups of learned men needed in democracy”. But after venting through the comments much more or less my quest was answered. Democracy, written in the west, thought during the earliest of civilization, praised by some and condemned by others.
    True, strong and aspiring leaders are what we need. True to the philosophy and objectives, strong in will and aspire to other to follow and later to lead.
    Thanks JMD. your article is something i can ponder tonight.

    Like

  34. by N H Chan(an eminent former court of appeal judge)

    The front page of the Star newspaper of Friday, 17 April 2009 carries this startlingly outrageous decision of the Federal Court. The headline proclaims “Court: Siva does not have right to suspend seven”. The report reads:

    PUTRAJAYA: The Federal Court has unanimously ruled that Perak Assembly Speaker V Sivakumar does not have the power to suspend Mentri Besar Datuk Zambry Abd Kadir and six state executive council members from attending the assembly.
    It granted a declaration that the seven assemblymen were entitled to take part in all the assembly sittings and to carry out their duties.
    Court of Appeal president Justice Alauddin Mohd Sheriff, who chaired a five-man panel yesterday, said the Speaker’s decision to suspend the seven applicants was ultra vires (outside the law) and invalid.
    … The other judges were Chief Judge of Malaya Arifin Zakaria and Federal Court Judges Nik Hashim Nik Ab. Rahman, S Augustine Paul and Zulkefli Ahmad Makinudin.

    This is a perverse judgement of the Federal Court. It is perverse because it is a decision that was made in blatant defiance of Article 72 (1) of the Federal Constitution which says,”The validity of any proceedings in the Legislative Assembly of any State shall not be questioned in any court”. The judges of the Federal Court have failed the people and the government of this country when they chose to ignore the law of the Constitution of Malaysia. In other words the judges have refused to do justice according to law.

    Incidentally, ultra vires does not mean “outside the law”. It means “outside one’s jurisdiction, beyond the scope of one s power or authority”. And we may ask, who is the Federal Court to say what is beyond the jurisdiction of the Speaker when the supreme law of the country says that “the validity of any proceedings in the Legislative Assembly of any State shall not be questioned in any court”.
    Ali Rustam was barred from contesting in the UMNO elections b’cos he was involved in corruption–but can still be the chief minister of Melaka.
    Khir Toyo was found to have abused his position as the MB of Selangor by getting involved in the Balkis fiasco and the Disneyland fiasco. He still has the cheek to claim that he is a simple person despite staying in Presidential suites–costing hundred over thousands of ringgit during his oversea’s trips.
    So what has the MACC done to check on these 2 corrupted fellows.
    But the moment a PR politician is suspected to be involved in corruption–like Fairus and Khalid–the MACC will immediately swing into action and will make a big issue out of it. Isn’t this a typical example of a govt apparatus under the control of UMNO.
    Malaysia’s mainstream media are all under the control of UMNO–can a non Malay medium newspaper come up with the front page news–unite my fellow Indians or Chinese to face the Malays–like what Utusan Malaysia came out in it’s front page–calling all Malays to unite to face the the non-malays.
    You mean a govt servant cannot have dissenting views–and is called an oxymoron. You expect the govt servant to be a balls carrier like you.

    JMD : I have no qualms whatsoever should Khir Toyo or Ali Rustam be hauled up and investigated by the MACC. You should have no qualms if Fairus and Khalid be investigated by the MACC either. As for Utusan Malaysia, have you actually read what the fuss all about? Please read it here.
    Tell me, where in that article was it venomous towards the non Malays in general? It calls for the Malays to stand united against any racist non Malays who call for the disintegration of the Malay Special Rights that is enshrined in the Constitution. Are you one of those people who is calling for the removal of those rights? If you are, then no wonder you are peeved. Just like how Lim Kit Siang was peeved over this innocent article. If he has the intention to remove the Malay Special Rights, then of course he will be mad by Utusan’s article. Utusan Malaysia is rallying support for the Malays to be united against the very people that is insensitive to the feelings of the Malays. What is wrong with that?
    No doubt, Lim Kit Siang, with the absence of any substantial issues to play with, was trying to present Utusan Malaysia as the bogeyman for the non Malays. Lim Kit Siang, true to his nature as a bigot, was trying to stir up sentiments of the non Malays towards the Malays. However, most of the non Malay bigots (hopefully you are not one of them) here in Malaysia failed to capture the gist of that article because they only read Lim Kit Siang’s blog. Unless you are actively trying to dismantle what is in the Constitution, then you have nothing to worry about Utusan Malaysia. Only schizophrenic racist relic of the past will feel the brunt of that article.
    Another example of Lim Kit Siang’s non existence integrity can be read here.
    In this article, LKS is attacking Tun M for highlighting the unsavoury character in Najib’s cabinet. What is wrong with that? Shouldn’t LKS be one of the people in the front line criticising any dubious characters in the cabinet? But no. Here, LKS failed in his job as a mature opposition member. Instead, his eternal hatred towards Tun M had exhibited his flip flopping idealogy of ‘attack your strongest enemy first’ no matter who he is.
    LKS even stated this – “But Abdullah not only failed to “walk the talk” to wage an all-out war against graft, corruption became even worse to allow his predecessor to now turn the table against “Mr. Clean” and declare with a straight face that “corruption especially in the government party has reached record levels during the tenure of the last PM”.
    Hello MR LKS, you were the one who couldn’t stop harping on the allegations of corruption of Pak Lah since 2005! Now, he is insinuating that Pak Lah is a fallen angel incapable of cleansing the nation of his predecessor’s sins? Only the stupid opposition supporters would believe such statements. The fact is, most Malaysians were fed up with the corruption practiced by Pak Lah and his cronies since 2005. One could just browse through LKS’s blog and Malaysia Today for articles from 2005 onwards.
    Thank you for the cut and paste comment though. The opposition is indeed is running out of issues. Citing ONE retired judge to defend their insipid arguments regarding the Perak issue. I wonder what Gopal Sri Ram, the recently promoted judge have to say about all this. Wait a minute, even the much respected judge of the opposition is silent on this matter. NH Chan appears to be alone in this issue. And I thought judges should be impartial…

    Like

  35. Helo Penyokong Umno,

    U orang pakai otak dan tanya diri sendiri–pakar pakar undang undang ada di sebelah mana–pembangkang kan.Satu dunia sudah tahu,makhamah kita adalah korup–video linggam telah dedah betapa korup hakim hakim–yang paling ketara sekarang ialah kes Altantuya–tak payah panggil saksi saksi penting. Terang terang menunjukkan sifat makhamah kangaru.Jadi siapa lebih tahu tentang undang undang.Yang saya tahu Umno menggunakan polis dan Pemuda Umno celaka untuk ugut rakyat.Siapa yang terlibat dalam kerja kerja haram.Bekas ketua umno diktator Mahathir adalah ketua perompak kolar putih–mengikut kajian Morgan Stanley–beliau telah curi dan sia siakan duit RM300 bilion sepanjang diktaship beliau–21 tahun.Toyo pula telah curi duit rakyat Selangor beratus juta.Bekas MB Selangor Muhd telah ditangkap dengan 2.4 juta ringgit di Australia,Najib yang curi berbilion ringgit dalam pembelian kapal sukoi dan submarine mengarah Sirul dan Azilah membunuh Altantuya–boleh baca di Malaysia Today,Perompak AP Rafidah,Perogol kanak kanak Rahim Thamby,jutawan Khairy yang tak kerja–mana dapat juta juta untuk beli saham,ketua perompak polis Musa, yang beri kontrak sewa helikopter yang bernilai RM20 bilion kepada anaknya,perompak kayu balak Taib Mahmud,ketua anjing MACC-Ahmad yang mempunyai anak phidophile–yang telah kena tangkap di australia–jadi pakai otak dan tanya sendiri siapa yang terlibat dalam aktiviti Haram–u orang tak malu kah menyokong pemimpin haram ini–otak awak dekat bontot ah–tak boleh fikir secara rasional.Kenapa Transparency International telah letak status Malaysia ke 47 banding dengan Singapore–no 4–sebab orang yang dipertanggungjawapkan untuk memerintah negara curi duit rakyat–just simple as that–no need to be a rocket scientist to figure out.
    Pasal DSAI tak payah cerita–tanya budak pun tahu ada conspiracy untuk bunuh karier politiknya. Sukma dan Munawar tidak pun buat laporan polis bahawa mereka telah di liwat–tetapi polis telah tangkap mereka dibawah ISA dan seksa mereka untuk menuduh DSAI liwat mereka. Azizan pula tidak diperiksa oleh doktor tetapi masih boleh dihukum oleh makhamah yang korup itu. Saiful pula telah diperiksa oleh doktor tetapi tidak ada kesan liwat–tetapi berani sumpah atas Al-Quran kerana duit. Ikut bos dia yang sumpah tak kenal Altantuya–tetapi baru baru ini telah tersebar di seanataro dunia berita Altantuya. Kalau beliau tidak terlibat kenapa ADCnya Musa Safri arah Azila dan Sirul jumpa Razak Baginda. Kalau makhamah impartial–kenapa tidak panggil Musa Safri untuk beri keterangan. Apa motif Azila dan Sirul bunuh Altantuya–kalau bukan wang. Dan siapa yang janji wang itu. Jadi apa nilainya bersumpah atas Al-Quran.Dalam kes Saiful–mereka kata ada bukti kukuh–tetapi tak berani bicara di hadapan Hakim Komathi–seorang hakim yang impartial–takut kalah. Tetapi konspirator mati mati mahu dengar kes tersebut di makhamah tinggi–supaya mereka boleh lantik seorang hakim yang korup seperti Augustine Paul. Kehakiman yang korup telah dibongkar dalam video Lingam. Jadi apa lagi hendak di kata. Pakai otak dan fikir secara rasional. Tunggu lepas PRU13–PR akan bina lebih banyak penjara untuk masukkan semua perompak,pembunuh,penyangak,perogol UMNO/BN kedalam penjara.

    Anti Umno

    JMD : I thought we have discussed about this before? I am impressed that you are writing this in Bahasa Melayu. Well done. If you want me to refresh your mind about the issues you highlighted, please read here, here, here, here, here and here. I am quite surprised you are still harping on the Morgan Stanley report? I doubt you have read it. And I wouldn’t put much faith in an organisation who were involved in shady business of sub prime loans that had led them to be on the verge of collapse in 2008. They themselves were corrupt. I am also surprised that you had left out Pak Lah’s dictatorship and corrupt business deals since 2003. He was the main culprit that made Malaysia fell from 37th place in 2003 to 47th in 2008. Thank you.

    Like

    • Dear JMD,

      I really have to become actively involved and make sure that the BN retains the Federal Govt in the next GE.

      I fear that people like you (and hopefully not me) will be the first to taste the luxury of new prisons that the Opposition Govt will create to accomodate UMNO supporters, according to Anti UMNO.

      Luckily he is only Anti UMNO and not Anti UMNO, MIC,Gerakan, PPP, . . . . . .

      Regards
      Freddie

      Like

      • Freedie,
        cannot be la kut..isn’t Pakatan fights for freedom of speech and abolish ISA..they and their supporters should walk the the talk and approve all the comments in their media without amendments..

        so, Freddie and JMD, no worries la..(hope so..hahaha..huhuhu??)

        ~ODS

        Like

  36. Dear JMD,

    In discussing about democracy the supporters of the so-called Pakatan Rakyat conveniently overlook to mention the present stark examples of the abuse of the process and power. At the moment we are already going to have 4, 5 or 6 by-elections. Of course some was unfortunate but others were mainly caused by resignations of the people’s representative? Obviously PR have found a loophole to continue campaigning and get their voices heard, force a by-election every now and then. That is exactly one reason why they want to continue to force a dissolution in Perak, to have another range of fresh elections.

    Anyone think for one minute second that the rationale is for the people? Far from it. It is always and will be for the selfish aims of the leaders of PR, and of course one in particular.

    As with his previous actions when he was dismissed as DPM, he is willing then as in now to push the nation to the dogs as long as he ultimately get what he wants. Anybody for one moment think that man is suffering for lack of funds? The only want that is suffering and will continue to suffer are the rakyat that will continue to believe his honey coated words.

    I believe in the last GE12 some of the rakyat has spoken and it is for BN to take heed, however to say that PR is the alternative government or leader is far from the truth. If BN continues not to take heed of the writing on the wall we need to look beyond and further then PR that is merely a disaster that is waiting to happen. In just not even over a year their actions in the states that they control is nothing but disaster. And one point I thought that Penang and Kedah was the saving grace for PR but now it looks like it is just smaller disasters but still disaster nevertheless.

    I will write again later on other issues. Have a meeting to go to. Have a good day JMD.

    Shah

    Like

    • shah

      why not launch a campaign save “BN” during the GE13?

      we want fresh elections in Perak. simple, we want to kick BN out. with BN has confidence of majority, prove it through another fresh round of election.

      if you want to save BN, enrol yourself to take part in the election. you can send yourself, lekiu, onda and jmd. i want to know whether yu can convince them all your writings here are truth and the opposition is useless?

      Like

      • I wont go so far as to say that the Opposition is useless. It is just that they dont do well to convince me that they will do a better job in managing the country.

        Trying to create a populist policies to get votes is easy but it is not necessarily good for the country.

        The Opposition’s Manifesto during GE 12 is full of irony. In between trying to sound like a socialist, such as nationlisation of utility companies to ensure prices are kept low, raising minimum wages, creating a welfare state are all very attractive. But most countries that do that have a very high tax structure.

        After all that Anwar promise billions of dollars of new investments. But who would want to invest when wages are high comparative to Vietnam, Thailand Indonesia and lets not even start with China ? And the planned liberalisation of the economy would suppose to mean allowing the market forces to determine issues like wages and prices and not allow Government to dictate.

        You cannot have the cake and eat it too. You either put your trust in the market like what is advocated by the likes of Milton Friedman or you go with Keynes.

        I remember the Opposition’s objection to the Government’s move to raise oil prices in line with the increase in oil prices worldwide. It is a popular move to object, but that was the reality ! The price must reflect the value of the commodity. Had we not raised the prices, we would lose out on the potential income and people will not learn to value such precious commodity. Wastage would be plentiful.

        In 1998, the Opposition opposed Tun M’s move to chase away the IMF’s austerity package and to peg the currency. In hindsight, BN’s move was proven correct.

        The Government’s adoption of Keynesian economics may sound unpopular in the age of small government, rejection of invisible Government hand in the economy but sacrificing pure profit for social stability has got this country stable for a very long while.

        In this new dawn of economic meltdown, even Obama sounds very much like a socialist and Milton Friedman’s objection to Government intervention and that the market is the absolute truth is looked upon with scorn.

        I dont believe in zero opposition, but Pakatan in trying to score votes need to do a better job in getting support from people like me rather than putting effort in maligning individual politicians reputation to garner support.

        Calling people names like “retard” just because you disagree with someone shows a worrying sign for the likes of you who claim to champion free speech. You are supposed to champion the right to dissent. You are suppose to celebrate a difference of opinion. Isn’t that what you are fighting for ?

        Calling UMNO or BN to fold would not do any good to democracy now would it ? A single party country is an antithesis to what you are passionately fighting for.

        JMD : Good one Lekiu. Thank you.

        Like

  37. Hi JMD,

    i agree with you saying that we need a mature and dynamic opposition..therefore i’m very convinced that we need to support PR and let it mature, the same way we have supported BN for the past 50 years..if BN can have 50 years, i guess PR deserves at least more than 1 year before all of us start throwing allegations at them.

    regards,
    red

    JMD : I think what is more important is NOT to throw allegations, but to criticise constructively and highlight any discrepancies from they had promised. As we all know and proclaimed by some people, the citizens are getting more and more critical than before. If the opposition uphold transparency and a ‘whiter than white’ dogma, then they themselves must lead by example. Thank you.

    Like

  38. JMD,

    NH Chan is an eminent retired judge, who is held in high esteem by the legal fraternity. Are you implying that a retired judge should still remain neutral. This is stupid argument. This learned ex judge with his vast knowledge and experience is entitled to remark regarding abuses of the law. He said it right when he commented about the decision of the federal court–made up of corrupted idiots who don’t know how to interpret a straight forward law. He even said a layman will understand the meaning of the law.
    The supreme law – meaning Article 72 (1) of the land says that “the validity of any proceeedings in the Legislative Assembly of any State shall not be questioned in any court”.
    This could only mean that all differences which occured in the legislative assembly could only be resolved by the assembly, within the assembly itself.
    As for Gopal–a very highly respected jugde, who is well known among the legal fraternity for his impartiality–but you label him as an opposition judge–since he is still serving the judiciary–of course he cant make any comments–if not he will have to face a tribunal to have him removed. JMD pls accept reality–it is common knowledge that most of the legal fraternity are pro opposition simply because the ruling govt is raping the law of the land.

    JMD : I am amused with your continued fascination of equating judges as someone perfect. Especially judges that YOU think are highly principled especially towards Pakatan Rakyat’s causes. Ian Chin, Gopal Sri Ram and now NH Chan. NH Chan’s opinion is entirely his own. He can interpret the laws in any way he want. BUt the fact remains, only he and he alone had voiced up a disagreement with the Federal Court ruling. I am somewhat amazed that since the Federal Court ruling did not rule in favour of PR, automatically, these Federal Judges are assumed to be corrupt by you people. Did any BN supporters labeled the other two judges in the Federal Court as corrupt when their judgment had released Anwar Ibrahim from jail?

    See the difference in maturity here?

    If Gopal Sri Ram is indeed impartial and as you said long time ago that you respect him very highly, then shouldn’t this highly principled judge who is know for impartiality, give out opinion just like what NH Chan did because I assume this is what principled people will do. No matter what the stakes are, they will correct what is wrong. But Gopal did not. You mean, his position as judge is more important that his principles? I am amazed you did not chastise Gopal Sri Ram for not castigating his other ‘corrupt judges’ of that case!

    But instead, you drone on and tried to justify his silence for fearing a removal from his post. That is the lamest excuse to make. And you’re running out of it. Laloo Singh, will Gopal Sri Ram become corrupt too if his judgment will rule against Pakatan Rakyat in the future?

    We have to be realistic. If you say the legal fraternity are pro opposition, then why some of the court cases did go the government’s way? Oh right.. because most judges are corrupt. But then, why did some cases go against the government as well? Oh right… because most judges are clean. See the paradox here? Please be more mature in mustering excuses next time.

    Here’s another poser. Justice Ian Chin claimed that Tun Mahathir threatened judges in 1997 during a boot camp that was attended by the then DPM (Anwar Ibrahim) as well. But Tun M denied the allegations. A few attending judges also could not remember when did Tun M threatened them. Anwar Ibrahim even brushed off the allegations by saying he could not remember ever attending a judges’ conference in 1997. So which is the truth? Do we believe Anwar? Since Anwar is ‘perfect’, then I should think Ian Chin had lied at that time. Is lying a virtue of a respected judge?

    Please read here for further thoughts on the Article 72.

    Like

  39. JMD,

    Its not me alone who appreciate these judges as respectable and impartial judges–Komathy is included. NH CHAN is a former Court of Appeal judge famous for his ‘All is not well in the House of Denmark’ comment regarding judicial corruption. The Bar council which represents the Malaysian lawyers is also of the opinion. Their judgements speak of their impartiality–it is not me alone. Lawyers whom I speak to heap praises about these judges–these are no nonsense judges. Your stupidity seems to continue with regards to Gopal–he is a serving judge–he is bound by professional ethics. How many principled man would want to jeopardise thier rice bowl. As for the 2 judges Augustine and Arifin, were incidentally involved in DSAI’s first sodomy case–and the whole world know what type of judges are they and they have been duely rewarded for that.

    Below is the mockery of their actions–

    In a criminal indictment, the accused need not prove his/her innocence. It is the prosecution’s job to prove guilt. Anwar, however, was made to prove his innocence. And, in spite of him successfully providing an alibi to prove he was nowhere near the scene of the allegedly crime, the judge still found him guilty because, according to the judge, Anwar had failed to prove his innocence.

    But that is just the point. Firstly, not only did Anwar prove his innocence, it was also not his job to do so. The onus was on the prosecution to prove guilt. But the judge was of the opinion that Anwar failed to prove his innocence, when actually he did. And the judge totally ignored the fact that, in the first place, it was not the accused’s job to prove his/her innocence but the prosecution’s job to prove guilt.

    For example, the police confiscated Anwar’s diaries and international passport, which could help prove he was somewhere else on the date the sodomy act was supposed to have been committed. Anwar’s lawyers, however, produced Photostat copies of the crucial documents but the judge refused to accept these copies. He wanted the originals. Anwar’s lawyers explained that the police had confiscated the originals so all they had were the copies.

    The judge still insisted on the originals and he asked the police to produce them. But the police could not do so as they had somehow been ‘misplaced’ and the police could not find them. So what do we have here? The copies were not accepted while the police could not find the originals, which they had confiscated. And Anwar, therefore, could not satisfy the judge that he was somewhere else on the day in question. Nevertheless, Anwar was still able to prove he was somewhere else but the judge conveniently ‘overlooked’ this in his judgement.

    There were many other issues that were not kosher but it will take me ten pages to go through the entire list. Suffice to say, the defence successfully rebutted all the issues and all the prosecution was left with, in the end, was the sole testimony of the so-called victim, Azizan Abu Bakar. And, when cross-examined under oath, Azizan confirmed, THREE TIMES, that Anwar never sodomised him.

    Even the judge was shocked. He dropped his pen and remarked that the witness was so unreliable. “He says one thing today and another thing tomorrow,” said the judge. But when he delivered his judgement, the judge said that: no doubt the witness is inconsistent, but just because he lied does not mean his entire testimony needs to be rejected. “I find his testimony as solid as the Rock of Gibraltar,” said the judge who had earlier chided the witness for lying on the stand while under oath.

    In any other country, the witness would have been jailed for perjury instead of Anwar jailed for sodomy.

    JMD : Quoting RPK again are we? Why do we still think he is telling the truth? RPK is trying hard to take out his own foot from his mouth after failing to produce evidence that Najib killed Altantuya. And he has the cheek to write that, in an allegation, it is the accuser who should produce the proof! He should look in the mirror then. If that is the case, then it is not Najib’s job to tell people he is innocent. It is RPK’s job then. But till today, he failed to give reasons to us why he made an oath under the Statutory Declaration that it was Aziz Buyong and his wife Norhayati that blew up Altantuya while Rosmah witnessed everything. I may have missed it if he had indeed told us why. If he had, then please produce his article stating this. People who are suing him want justice over this allegation to help clear their names and RPK is playing hide and seek with the courts? Wasn’t he the one who said that he will do anything to have the murderers exposed? Shouldn’t all the impartial and highly respectable judges be unified in their voice to cajole RPK and tell him that he will get fair trial? And by the way, can you please list down all the current judges that you think is impartial, highly respectable and incorruptible besides Komathy, Gopal Sri Ram, Lau Bee Lan, NH Chan? It seems that you always mention these names AFTER they made favourable judgment for you. I assume you are very close to the legal fraternity hence I see you will have no problems in revealing more names to us. Thank you.

    Like

    • Laloo,
      I’m confused here…at first, you mentioned “But that is just the point. Firstly, not only did Anwar prove his innocence, it was also not his job to do so. The onus was on the prosecution to prove guilt. But the judge was of the opinion that Anwar failed to prove his innocence, when actually he did. And the judge totally ignored the fact that, in the first place, it was not the accused’s job to prove his/her innocence but the prosecution’s job to prove guilt.” which sounds that you put the weigh on the accuser to prove someone’s guilt.

      However, in DS Najib’s, you in kind support RPK to put weigh not on the accuser.

      What are you trying to do here? Anything that is not favourable to individual you like is not fair, anything favourable to your likings is fair?

      One more, DS Anwar case has proper conduct (i.e police report lodge etc) and brought to court. However, DS Najib being accused outside the court. If RPK and you have the proof, bring it to the court la..provide as you have said..protect those innocent police officers as Pakatan and RPK mentioned they have the proof. Bring it on laa…ni nyawa orang ni..takkan nak politikkan jugak..

      Like what I said to someone in this blog (jebat’s fen I think), jangan main tuduh sorok depan pc. Sesiapa pun boleh kalau macam tu.

      ~ ODS

      Like

      • Dear JMD,

        As always I admire your indulgence to moderate and reply comments.

        I believe I have said before, people from two professions I have never trusted – mechanics and lawyers.

        Every time a lawyer comments there is always is an ulterior, self serving motive and double speak.

        Sorry, just had to comment.

        Regards
        Freddie

        Like

    • Laloo Singh,

      You said “…How many principled man would want to jeopardise thier rice bowl”.

      That seems to contradict your premise that these people have integrity! No principled person will prostitute their belief for money.

      You said “….In a criminal indictment, the accused need not prove his/her innocence. It is the prosecution’s job to prove guilt.”

      Not at the prosecution’s case but when a defence has been called, it is the duty of the accused to prove his inncocence.

      You said “…..But when he delivered his judgement, the judge said that: no doubt the witness is inconsistent, but just because he lied does not mean his entire testimony needs to be rejected”.

      There is enough case law to support the view that just bacause there are discrepancies in a witness testimony does not straight away make such witness an unreliable witness and make the whole of his evidence unacceptable.

      Sultan Azlan Shah when he was delivering his judgment in Datuk Harun’s case opined that “There is no rule of law that the testimony of a witness must either be believed in its entirety or not at all. A court is fully competent, for good and cogent reasons, to accept one part of the testimony of a witness and to reject the other. It is, therefore, necessary to scrutinize each evidence very carefully as this involves the question of weight to be given to certain evidence in particular circumstances.” 30 years later, Gopal Sri Ram in a case before him concurred.

      Most if not all lawyers have faced witnesses that are economical in their truth when put on the witness box. Let’s not even start with affidavits.

      In America, such blatant attempt to lie will be severely punished, but in Malaysia at least, affidavits that put scant regard to the truth and witness lying in court is taken with a pinch of salt.

      That is why Wahab Patail did away with oral testimony except in exceptional circumstances and asked lawyers to put in their submissions once the issues are cleared before him and his extensive pre trial case management has been done.

      JMD : Many thanks to you Lekiu for giving us this reply.

      Like

      • Dear Lekiu,

        “In America, such blatant attempt to lie will be severely punished, but in Malaysia at least, affidavits that put scant regard to the truth and witness lying in court is taken with a pinch of salt.”

        Even though you mention America in passing, it gives me an opportunity to comment on Justice in America, which I am sure explains why PKR supporters hold American justice and democracy in high esteem and douse Laloos comments.

        Prez Bush Jr got elected by the highest court in his land, by the majority Republican Supreme court Judges decision, when they ruled on the Florida recount issue. Through the back door, so to speak.

        The Democratic President Clinton, in a Grand Jury testimony actually double spoke his way out of impeachment. In the process he found a new definition of ‘it’. He actually got away with ‘it’.

        Thats justice and democracy in the land of the free.

        Thank you
        Freddie

        Like

  40. Ondastreet/Lekiu,

    Let me ask you, if you are sodomised forcefully by some rapist–what will you do. In the first place you will definetely avoid this person. If he is your employer you will leave the job and avoid him or if not you will lodge a police report. And naturally the polis will have you examined by a doctor and that report will be the primary evidence against the rapist. But in Azizan’s case he was not subjected to any medical examination. And the polis had the temerity to claim that they know how to check a sodomy victim. If it was heard by an impartial judge–this case would have been thrown out. This corrupted judge Augustine Paul–who was actually involved in commercial cases was brought specifically from Melaka to hear this case–this drunkard will go to any extend to ampu Mahathir the dictator. He is considered a pariah by the legal fraternity. This applies the same to Arifin Zakaria.
    As for Najib–why is it such a coincidence that all those involved in the murder of Altantuya are linked to him. The original criminal prosecution team, who had put months into their preparation of the trial, was replaced at the 11th hour by a civil prosecution team. Where else could such a dubious if not unwarranted switch taken place?The original judge for the trial Segera- who was more senior and experienced and also very well known for his impartiality- was also replaced at the last minute by a junior judge. If this is not interference by an invisible hand, then what is?
    How can this judge allow bail for Razak in a non bailable offence of murder—blasting a pregnant woman into pieces. In the course of the trial–the sheer mention of Najib invites protests from all quaters even from the defence.There was SMS communication between Najib and Umno lawyer Shafee–in which Najib had mentioned that he will be seeing the IGP(this was the main culprit in DSAI’s sodomy case and was rewarded handsomely for his part) and Razak shouldn’t worry. This communication was not denied by him–he futher said that there was nothing wrong with it. Doesn’t this smack of conspiracy.The acquittal of Abdul Razak Baginda in the High Court could only be seen as a classic revelation of the authenticity of the SMS texts exchange between Najib Razak and lawyer Shafee Abdullah.
    Why did Najib’s ADC Musa Sabri instruct Azila and Sirul to see Razak.
    What was their motif in committing such a cruel and heinous crime.
    I am sure it was for money and who had promised them the money.
    Why was’nt Musa Sabri called to testify in court.
    The whole trial could only be aptly described as a mockery and now the whole world can’t help thinking of the partiality of the Malaysian judiciary, that it is subservient to those in the corridors of power and proned to manipulation by the political masters.
    Lekiu, you said no principled person will prostitute their belief for money. Using your yardstick, now about 80% of the govt servants are anti BN–and majority of them are Malays–they protest b’cos they know the BN govt do things which are against their principles–so you expect them to resign from the govt and if they are ladies they become prostitutes and the men sell their punggung–literally.

    JMD : https://jebatmustdie.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/a-logical-review-of-the-slander-on-datuk-seri-najib/#comment-499 and http://www.suaradu.com/2008/07/conversation-about-liwat.html

    There you go again plucking figures from air to say that 80% of civil servants are anti BN. But come to think of it, I hope from now on, nobody will accuse the civil servants as corrupt or dogs of the government (police are also civil servants) since ‘80%’ of them are pro opposition and we all know that all opposition members and supporters are clean and corruption free.

    Like

    • Laloo Singh,

      You said “…..How can this judge allow bail for Razak in a non bailable offence of murder”.

      As far back as in 1987, a Malaysian High Court adopted the position taken by the Courts in India and UK to allow bail even in non bailable offence if there are reasonable grounds to belief that the accused person will not abscond.

      Sometime back when I was a young man, a wise old man trying to temper with my boldness in deciding on a particular business decision said, as people who believe in God, we have to do the right thing and have faith that rezeki di tangan Tuhan dan bukan manusia yang bagi.

      The wise old man vetoed the decision taken by me and a few others, and I was up in arms for a while with his decision. It is still debatable whether financially it is the right decision but I can understand his moral objection.

      That is a prime example of a principled person who puts his faith in God. I find it difficult to accept anything less than that.

      Any way, had those “principled” judges quit the judiciary they would have made much more money in legal practice. I may be wrong but High Court Judges make about RM20,000 per month plus allowance, with their years of experience, joining an established legal firm would very well earn them much more than just RM20,000.

      As to the other contentious issues brought forth by you, as JMD rightly said, those issues have been argued and there is no point revisiting old and tired allegations.

      Like

    • Laloo,
      My question is simple. Why is that in DS Anwar’s case, you put the weight on the prosecuter to prove the case, but in the DS Najib’s case (is there any case lodge in court anyway?), you put the weight on the accused to prove innocence? Why is there double standard in your accusations?

      You are not consistent in providing questions. IF you stress on prosecutor to prove case in DS Anwar’s issue, so should be the same in DS Najib..oops, the court hearings are for Abdul Razak and the accused police officers, but no Najib.

      Again, I am stressing this, IF you have the proof of getting DS Najib to court for alleged murder, please do so. Jangan duduk depan PC menuduh. DS Anwar kata ada bukti, RPK kata ada bukti. So, buktikan. Nyawa 2 anggota polis dalam pertaruhan.

      Atau you want people also to tuduh you buat tuduhan palsu pula?

      ~ODS

      Like

      • ondastreeet

        how many cases of murder have been actually solved and how many are not solved at all? so, i would say najib’s case is one of those unsolved mystery as how i understand from news…

        have you caught while you broke some traffic laws? maybe you have bribed before and not get caught? have you stolen money from your parents? were there times you were not caught? bukti boleh disembunyikan… you don’t need a graduate to tell you that, retard !!!

        Like

        • wah, wah..assuming all people will cheat and do crime huh?

          For all the questions asked, demi Allah saya tidak pernah cuba merasuah polis ataupun mencuri duit daripada ibu bapa kerana saya tahu itu perbuatan yang salah. Dan sebagai muslim, saya percaya Allah Maha Melihat.

          Saya pernah ditahan kerana melanggar kesalahan trafik, seperti melanggar lampu merah, lebih had laju dan bercakap di telefon semasa memandu, tetapi tidak pernah sekali saya cuba memberi rasuah, kerana mereka cuma menjalankan tanggungjawab mereka. Saya salah dan saya mengaku. Semua saman pun sudah berbayar.

          Tentang kes-kes yang belum selesai atau tidak dapat diselesaikan, apakah anda ingat polis ni Robocop? Tiada satu polis di dunia ini pun yang dapat menyelesaikan 100% kes-kes yang dilaporkan, termasuklah Amerika Syarikat. Memang mudah mengkritik, tetapi adakah anda yakin anda boleh lakukan jika anda berada di tempat yang sama?

          “Kes DS Najib” tidak berlaku lagi, kerana tiada laporan rasmi yang dibuat oleh DS Anwar, RPK mahupun mana-mana individu yang mengatakan DS Najib terlibat. Polis hanya akan melakukan siasatan jika terdapat laporan. Jadi, untuk menjadikan kes, silalah buat laporan polis. Saya merayu, tolonglah..nyawa dua anggota polis dalam pertaruhan..

          Mungkin saudara tidak membaca artikel saya mengenai PDRM lagi. Jangan perkecilkan mereka kerana sebagaimana anda, mereka juga cuba sedaya upaya mereka.

          Jika isu rasuah polis yang ditimbulkan, saya akui ianya mungkin terjadi (kerana tidak berlaku depan mata saya lagi), tetapi jika ada, silalah bawa ke muka pengadilan. Sudah banyak kes polis dihadapkan ke mahkamah atas kesalahan-kesalahan yang dilakukan. Maka, buatlah laporan polis, jangan duduk depan PC main tuduh-tuduh…

          dan saudara, saya tidak retard…DS Anwar dan RPK kata ada bukti, buatlah laporan..nak sembunyi bukti buat hape..keadilan apa namanya tu?

          ~ODS

          Like

  41. You all have not answered me–how can a person be charged for sodomy when there is no medical evidence– that is the standard prerequisite for a person to be charged.
    As for your claim that if you all have evidence bring it up in court–is akin to talking rubbish. The moment you come up with some evidence–you will end up like Bala(the whole family missing after the polis interrogated him), if not the polis will spring into action to have that person arrested under the ISA–RPK’s case.It is proven in a kangaroo court–if reliable evidence are submitted in court–corrupted judges will sing their favorite tune–irrelevant,irrelevant–so why should we waste our time–the whole world knows from the Linggam video scandal–that our judiciary(except for people like Gopal, Segera, Komathi, Singgam and a few others) are corrupted to the core. You all can argue anything–most of the educated public are aware of the rot in the judiciary,polis,Macc and so forth. Now they have started to show their objections in the polls and will be ultimately proven in the PRU13–thats for sure. See wether you all can change that or not.

    JMD : Sorry Laloo, your time for questioning is over. Typical of a rabid opposition member who could not answer straight up question or clear up issues when obvious hypocrisy is being highlighted among their leaders. When we ask, you provide answers… just like how people here indulge you with theirs. If not, it will just be a one way street.

    You have not answered my previous questions about the Morgan Stanley report. Where is it? Care to show us the full report? Please provide us with the softcopy or the link.

    You have not explain why Tommy Thomas and RPK were making contradictory statements about changing of governments? One when Anwar lied about the 916 project and the other about the Perak situation.

    In the case of RPK, I would understand that he is only a paid writer with no credibility. But in the case of Tommy Thomas, the one who supposedly be a tower of integrity and impartiality, made 180 degree about the Perak issue in less than 6 months! Please enlighten us.

    You have not provide us with evidence that Najib paid the 3 Aduns of Perak to defect from Pakatan Rakyat. Please do so soon. Like Ondastreet had said, accusing people from behind the computer is the easiest thing to do. But to have credibility, please provide evidence.

    You have not explained why LKS made unwarranted accusation towards Utusan Malaysia which ultimately showed how racist and deluded he is in Malaysia’s multi racial context. Is he really an anti Malay bigot?

    You did not explain why Ian Chin lied about Anwar and Tun Mahathir regarding the 1997 judges conference.

    You did not touch on the issue of RPK’s statutory declaration about Aziz Buyong and his wife Norhayati. WHo is telling the truth here? I thought it was Sirul and Azilah at the murder scene. Why until this day, RPK and Anwar Ibrahim did not produce any evidence to save Sirul and Azilah? Anwar and RPK suddenly become too stupid to make another SD? Please help defend their credibility.

    Why should Gopal Sri Ram, Komathy etc stayed on as judges in a corrupted system when their integrity is at stake? What they get as judges is nothing compared what they could have earn in private practice. Please enlighten us why are they prostituting their principles by involving in this ‘corrupted’ body.

    Please provide more names than the ones we had already mentioned (Segara, Gopal, Komathy have all been stated before). By the way, who is Singgam? Could not find him anywhere. Please state his full name and profession. Is he a lawyer or a judge? The reason I am asking you this because you seem to have this propensity to cite names after a judgment of a case goes your way. If it doesn’t, then automatically you will label the judge as corrupt. We need to know beforehand who are the clean judges so that when a case is heard, we can be assured that is had been tried in front of a clean judge.

    It is not fair that you could only tell us who are the clean judges based only on the judgments that benefited your way. This only shows that you know nothing about the legal fraternity and had accused the judiciary of corruption based only on your misplaced prejudice.

    By the way, Bala is safe in a neighbouring Asean country as confirmed by his nephew. He even left Malaysia by his own accord. Or did you choose to forget this incident? And please, did Bala produce any evidence? Not at all. They were just bunch of hearsays. And what kind of a person Bala is when he boast that he knows that Altantuya is susceptible to anal sex? What a clown!

    Lastly, there are two opposition MPs in the MACC working in a committee Dr Tan Seng Giaw (Kepong MP) and Salahuddin Ayub. Both of them are corrupt as well I presume?

    Thank you in advance for answers to the queries above.

    Like

    • hambek kau, JMD dah tolong re-call balik soalan-soalan yang lagi lama tak berjawab..

      Laloo,
      I am no solicitor and well versed with Malaysian law, but I do know that we live by certain rules. And for me, they are trying their best (be it judge, pihak pendakwa, peguambela and all related) to do their job. Just let them do their job. Jika anda pakar, silalah bantu pihak mana yang anda sokong. Saya tidak.

      However, as a normal people on the street, I find it disturbing when you are not consistent in questioning. Seriously, if you go into court like this, ada harapan nak menghampkan client anda.

      Simple, one case, you claim prosecutor to prove case (DS Anwar’s case), but on the other hand “defendant” (as DS Najib is not really the defendant) to prove his innocence. Undang-undang mana yang you pakai Laloo? Tak konsisten. Jangan nak kata mahakamah kangaroo, sebab kalau kangaroo, DS Anwar masih meringkuk kat penjara lagi tau.

      Laloo, sila terima bahawasanya, ada masa keputusan tidak memihak kepada kita, terutama kalau kita yang menyerahkan kepada pihak ketiga (dalam kes ini mahkamah) untuk menentukan keputusan.

      In other words, you are not gentleman enough to argue. You wanted your questions to be answered, but the earlier questions imposed on you still not answered.

      ~ODS

      Like

    • hi jmd

      how do you know RPK is a paid writer?

      oh, that makes you a no conscience writer to protect UMNO.

      actually you are really good in writing but unfortunately you are from the dark side, is such a waste. i hope you will have no regrets later on in your life for all your wasted time writing for UMNO.

      JMD : I would have thought that everybody knows that RPK derive his income from Malaysia Today. He doesn’t have a day job like the rest of us. He is not working in any corporations, in fact, he is a bankrupt for not being able to pay Nordin Kardi RM2 million in damages last year. He even had to seek donations from the Malaysia Today readers just to post a RM5,000 bail. So how does he sustain his livelihood other than from doing what he is known for? Writing in Malaysia Today. It is a common knowledge right? Come on, being a paid writer is not a bad thing. We know his political leanings already. What would be bad if he tries to cover up something which is so obvious and being self righteous about it at the same time.

      Thank you for labeling me a Sith Lord. I have always dreamt of becoming Darth Vader although my favourite Star Wars character is Han Solo…

      By the way son, I am not writing all this for Umno. Please be assure of that.

      Thank you.

      Like

  42. Jebat’s Fren,

    C’monlaa stop playing games with people around here…you are obviously not interested to argue….calling people yang tak satu kepala dengan you penyokong UMNO is just downright shallow right? Doesn’t that sound like those UMNO ppl you claim not to like? Because u r sounding like them too….

    Heck I find there are lots of problem with UMNO.

    Even if you do it for the sake to irk people around here, it’s definitely not working…

    JMD : Ditto.

    Like

    • Dear JMD,

      It seems Jebat’s Fren does not read newspapers to defend RPK.

      I too follow Malaysia Today to see whats on the other side of the fence.

      RPK took great pains and much pleasure to mention he’s a blue blooded Selangor royal. He now comes with some lame story of disownership and self banishment just to avoid attending court.

      I believe I once commented on your blog that RPK had gone bonkers. I really think he is.

      Thank you
      Freddie

      Like

  43. JMD/Ondastreet,

    Who has not answered, I have answered all the questions–only you people have not anwered my question–how can a person be charged for sodomy when the victim is not subjected to medical examination–isn’t it plain conspiracy—a layman will also be able to tell this.Jadi in the first place DSAI shouldn’t be in prison–the question of him being released or not doesn’t arise. Your mentor the dictator Mahathir most probably might have been angry with Tun Abdullah just because he didn’t stop DSAI from being released. He wanted him to die in prison.
    As for the Morgan Stanley report–it was the interview conducted by Reuters with Ramon Navartnam– President of Transparency International-Malaysian Edition—which touched on the issue of Mahathir’s embezzlement. Since Mahathir did’nt sue Reuters–I presume it as the truth—and the whole world knows about Mahathir–I had mentioned earlier–the host of BBC Hardtalk had addressed him as a dictator–why not you sue the host on behalf of Mahathir.
    Tommy Thomas is an authority on constitutional law–he knows what he is talking–who are you to question him–I had also mentioned this in my earlier replies.
    As for RPK–he is the NO 1 blogger in the country who enjoys the patronage of thousands of readers. Yes he is a bankrupt–made a bankrupt by the dogs of the corrupted govt. But you are wrong–he is not a paid writer but people throw money just to appreciate his writings–can you see the difference.
    You accuse LKS of being a racist and anti Malay bigot—but frankly speaking he is a true Malaysian who have been championing for true democracy. There are more racists and bigots in UMNO.
    As for Ian Chin it is not incumbent upon me to explain what transpired between them–b’cos I don’t know what happened.
    It is not DSAI or RPK’s credibility at stake,it is the credibility of the courts that are at stake—every evidence will be irrelevant,irrelevant.
    I am surprised you don’t know Justice VT Singham—are you trying to say that you don’t read newspapers–it’s really shocking.Just last week, at the Kuantan High Court he awarded RM63 million to Seruan Gemilang.
    As I said earlier–the judges who are considered impartial are not my picking but is the legal fraternity’s overall assessment of judgements. You can always have your recalcitrant accusations but I am not bothered.
    You have started to talk rubbish–why should Gopal and Komathi resign–they are there to do their job impartialy–without any interference from anybody–who are you to question that.
    As for Bala–the moment he came up with a SD–the polis took him to the Balai Polis and I am sure he would have been whacked, threatened and so forth—this dogs of the govt are very famous for that. That poor fellow came out with another SD, minus the links that mentioned Najib–under duress and after that went missing with his whole family. According to the star–the cops know where he is–why don’t they arrest him and charge him for false report. What happened to Kugan’s case–you said they are investigating–that is about 3 months ago—I don’t think that fellow will get justice.
    Anyway pls be reminded the TIDE is against UMNO/BN–try changing the TIDE.

    JMD : Laloo Singh, I implore you to read about the case before you can bomb this commentary session with your incessant and ridiculous rant. I mentioned to Andipool before that he had better read the judgment papers before letting extreme prejudice overcome his point of views.

    Obviously you had been sidetracked by the opposition in saying that medical reports are needed in order to convict someone of sodomy charges.

    That is not the case. A person can be submitted to sodomy charges through other means such as through witnesses or confessions of victims.

    Did you know that in 1999, Anwar was not convicted of sodomy charges only through Azizan’s police report? There were many other direct evidence presented in the court. Medical report was the least important evidence at that time. Why is this so? Because the act was done YEARS before police report was made in 1997.

    If there were any tear or proof of sodomy, it may not be conclusive because time would have erase any trace of that vile act.

    What was more important was direct evidence through confessions of Azizan and Sukma. This is the most important item that had convicted Anwar. Witnesses and confessions. Many argued that Sukma’s confession was coerced by the police. That may be so. And this form of extracting confession became the basis of that 2004 Federal Court judgment which had released Anwar from prison. All 3 judges stated that they did not rule out sodomy because there are evidence that Anwar did it. Anwar was released because the judges were suspicious that the manner of getting the confession might be inadmissible under the legal process. The key word here is – sodomy was not ruled out.

    Now, what damned Anwar to prison in the first place was the prior confession of Sukma back in 1994. This confession took place years before the 1999 trials. Sukma confessed being sodomised by Anwar to one psychiatrist named Dr Mohd Fadzil B. Man. In 1994, Sukma was suffering acute depression and he went to see the doctor. He confessed everything to this doctor. This doctor eventually became the 2nd witness of the 1999 sodomy trial. What the doctor said was blackout by the media because it was to respect the doctor-patient confidentiality.

    But from the judgment paper, Sukma confessed to the doctor that he became Anwar’s adik angkat at the age of 14 and often engaged in lewd acts with Anwar. Now, this confession was not coerced and the doctor showed the courts medical and psychological transcript of 1994. By the way, Sukma met the doctor on 10th November 1994. This was waaaaaay before the trials wasn’t it?

    This confession pinned Anwar of the conviction because, it actually similar to the second confession he made in 1998.

    That was why, the Federal Court never said Anwar did not sodomise Azizan or Sukma. Now, does Malaysia want a sodomiser as a potential PM?

    Ariffin Jaka was correct in his judgment to send Anwar to jail at that time. He based his judgment not on medical reports (as you may have want it) but on a greater evidence which is confessions.

    Note that Karpal Singh vehemently wanted to rule out Mohd Fadzil’s statements during the trials. His reason? Because Mohd Fadzil will violate the Hippocrates Oath should he disclose his patient’s confessions.

    The Court decided otherwise saying the matter of seeking the truth is much greater than any Hippocrates Oath. To me, Karpal’s lame excuse made Anwar looked even more guilty.

    Therefore, Anwar should be in prison because a sodomiser as a PM will be subjected to blackmail and who knows what he would have done just to remain in power. His blinding support to IMF back in 1997 and 1998 had suspiciously became an example of being a puppet to a foreign blackmailer.

    What I said above what transpired during the court case. Please read more of the judgment papers. You can buy a copy from Malayan Law Journal Sdn Bhd.

    Now, about your replies. Where is the Morgan Stanley report? Tsk tsk tsk… you pinned Mahathir as a corrupt leader based on his act of NOT suing Reuters? What a laugh. Anwar never sued anybody that calls him a sodomiser. In 1997, Karpal Singh and Mohd Sabu publicly labeled Anwar as a homosexual. Did Anwar sued them? No? So, Anwar must be a homosexual then.

    Laloo Singh, you do not have evidence of this Morgan Stanley report. To me, This report does not exist. I asked you whether have you read them. You replied that you only heard it in an interview. Where is this interview? Did you even see it? I doubt it. So, to base your opinion on this from a bogus report that you yourslef had not read which stated USD100 billion loss to corruption since 1981, is so stupid. Surely by now, you must know that what you have is not a report. But only your misplaced aggression to believe on what is not real.

    By the way Laloo Singh, Stephen Sakhur did not address Mahathir as a dictator in the Hardtalk program. Did you not see the program? Stephen mentioned that some quarters see Mahathir as a dictator which Mahathir sarcastically gave him a reply which Stephen himself could not answer. When did Stephen addressed Mahathir as a Dictator? Again, believing what is not there. Are you in a stable mental health Laloo?

    Tommy Thomas – where did I question his expertise? I question his flip flopping statements. If you question the take over in Perak, you are also guilty of questioning Tommy Thomas interview back in October 2008. Your reply on this is hilarious indeed.

    So RPK had people throw money at him on daily basis? Good on the people. RPK has no real job and is being subsidized by the people. Oh by the way, is there any account number of RPK which I can give donations? I can’t find it anywhere stated in his blog. Oops, so how could people throw him money in order to sustain his everyday expenses?

    Laloo, he is bankrupt because he cannot stop accusing people here and there without any shred of proof. He even accused Rosmah of being at the murder scene! Where is the proof? He made a contradictory SD and yet you are silent about this. Show the proof. Show it in the famous Court of Public Opinion. That could save Sirul and Azilah. You are wrong when you said that the court will deem evidence as irrelevant because THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION will not deem it so.

    Anwar Ibrahim will get more fans if he and RPK can expose the proof and evidence. But alas, RPK himself has no balls in facing the court to clean his name. His excuse? He impose unto himself a self exile. Hilarious. He could not be in the PJ Court because PJ in Selangor and he had self exiled himself outside Selangor (although he failed to tell his readers that he is still living near Sg Buloh). Hilarious. That is why I said, Anwar and RPK had no credibility at all. And you still believe them Laloo? Could it be that RPK has no proof at all? Just like how Anwar never had the 30 MPs to crossover. Please explain.

    Read again this reply to you over and over again will you?

    VT Singham? You made a typo when you mentioned Singgam, not Singham. Anyway, I will compile all the list of judges that you deem as impartial and having high credibility. So far, I have 5 names. I am sure when court cases go your way, this list will grow bigger. Or, if these judges made judgment that is not suit you, it will become smaller.

    I chuckled a bit when you said Gopal and Komathy should do their job and who am I to question their impartiality. My friend, WHO ARE YOU to question and label other judges as corrupt and question their judgment then?

    And you have the knack to dismiss a credible point of contention of someone’s credibility just by sidefooting the whole issue altogether. You want to believe what you want to believe. If things had obviously discredit your opinion, you casually say Ian Chin is not your problem.

    As for Kugan, it is not incumbent upon me to explain what transpired in the investigation –b’cos I don’t know what is going about he ongoing investigation at the moment. Please be patient. See the irony?

    By the way, how did you know Bala got whacked? Another accusation Laloo? You are desperately trying to create something just to justify your assertions that Najib is a murderer. C’mon, even kids have more sense than you.

    And you still have not answered the previous questions :

    You have not provide us with evidence that Najib paid the 3 Aduns of Perak to defect from Pakatan Rakyat. Please do so soon. Like Ondastreet had said, accusing people from behind the computer is the easiest thing to do. But to have credibility, please provide evidence.

    You did not touch on the issue of RPK’s statutory declaration about Aziz Buyong and his wife Norhayati. WHo is telling the truth here? I thought it was Sirul and Azilah at the murder scene. Why until this day, RPK and Anwar Ibrahim did not produce any evidence to save Sirul and Azilah? Anwar and RPK suddenly become too stupid to make another SD? Please help defend their credibility.

    Lastly, there are two opposition MPs in the MACC working in a committee Dr Tan Seng Giaw (Kepong MP) and Salahuddin Ayub. Both of them are corrupt as well I presume?

    Laloo, if you think the TIDE is growing then you are entitled to your opinion. As it is, even till now, Anwar cannot convince me to join this so called TIDE of his.

    Like

    • “Tommy Thomas – where did I question his expertise? I question his flip flopping statements. If you question the take over in Perak, you are also guilty of questioning Tommy Thomas interview back in October 2008. Your reply on this is hilarious indeed.”

      Laloo,
      You are not answering it actually. Let me summarize into one sentence question: Why are you not consistent in questioning which side to prove case?

      You are flip flopping in making accusations. If you support prosecutor to prove case, you should be consistent in making your stand. Moreover, no police report lodge against DS Najib. So, why should DS Najib got to prove his innocence when no police report being lodged? It is the responsibilty for the accuser to bring the case and prove it.

      Now, ini baru consistent, when in both case prosecutor kena prove case. Bukan satu kes macam tu, satu case macam ni.

      Tu sebab, dalam law, there is judicial precedent, A judgment of a court of law cited as an authority for deciding a similar set of facts; a case which serves as authority for the legal principle embodied in its decision. The common law has developed by broadening down from precedent to precedent.

      Bukan ikut suka hati dan emosi. Kalau law enforcer (police and court) ikut emosi karang, naya je nanti…

      or you want it to be like that?

      ~ ODS

      p/s: Seriously speaking, I can imagine if you are one of the judges..confirm ribut your cases…

      Like

    • Laloo,

      Life is not a clear case of good versus evil. That people are not easily pigeon holed into neat categories that we can easily identify and comfort ourselves in knowing that some people are good and some people are bad.

      The reason that motivates each individuals to do what they do are at times mysterious.

      To give you a sense of perspective, Gopal Sri Ram in a case for defamation wrote a judgment in which he said that the trend in awarding multi million Ringgit in defamation claim should be put to a halt. Ironically, his wife sued a school for a cool RM 6 Million on behalf of their son who was kicked out from a debating team for cheating.

      Ian Chin while sitting as a Judge in Sabah decided in favour of Osu Sukam, the then CM of Sabah, in refusing to register the Judgment of a UK Court for some gambling debts Osu Sukam owed to a Casino. He went on quoting Rukunegara and God and how we Rukunegara and God abiding Malaysians would never allow such sinful gambling covenant between Osu and the Casino be given validity. It is very strange that he decided that way since gambling is widely available in Malaysia !

      If it also a very strange coincidence that the “dictator” Mahathir appointed VT Singam.

      Komathy, what can I say. About the prettiest judge in Peninsula Malaysia.

      You just hate the Malays so much you just assume Malay judges are corupt just because their decision doesnt conform to your idea of what should be the “correct” decision.

      In the United States, whenever opportunity presents itself, the President of the United States in electing judges to the apex court would do so on the possible inclination of those judges to decide in favour of the executive decision of the President. If the President is a Republican, he would ensure that the judges to be promoted would be conservative on issues and likewise if the President is a Democrat, you’d bet that the judges would be liberal in his or her outlook.

      What this translates would be that conservative judges would be more inclined to favour the Goverment on issues regarding invasion of privacy, the importance of religion, pro life as opposed to the rights for abortion, conservative sexual values among others.

      All I am saying is that Judges are humans, their decisions at times reflect their background and outlook in life. Some judges like Augustine Paul believe that the role of the judges is simply to interpret the laws passed by Members of Parliament that was put there by people like us.

      Some Judges like Sri Ram believe they have a right to strike down any law he deems unfair, thus in my mind at least, usurp the very power to make and pass laws conferred by us on our elected representatives.

      I for one find it very strange that if a majority of MPs in Parliament elected by us to make decisions, make and pass laws on our behalf are being overruled by judges just because they feel that they are “right”.

      But of course we hear rumours of judges on the take, lawyers on the take and what makes you think that those judges you elevate to the status of knights in shining armour are not spared from malicious gossips ? Komathy excluded, too pretty to be involved in salacious tales of impropriety.

      Like

  44. JMD/Ondastreet,

    If you all are anak jantan–advice UMNO to dissolve the Perak State Assembly and have fresh elections–then we will know where the truths stand. After all democracy is for the people to decide. Not by usurping power by the back door and claiming victory. I dare say if there is fresh elections in Perak–UMNO/BN will be thrashed to the extend that they can’t recover. Afterall the govt is by the people and for the people. It is common knowledge that the judiciary,polis,macc are all corrupted to the core and let the people pass judgement in the court of public opinion–the elections. Let them judge who is telling the truth and who is barking like a dog to cover lies.

    Like

    • Laloo,

      Again have some perspective la. For the past 11 General Elections, PAS and DAP have had their share of being thrashed. They survive this long still.

      Blackburn won the League once that didnt translate into anything past the one time they won.

      The next GE is a few years away, what makes you think the tide of public opinion would not shift ?

      Before GE 12, Pakatan was defeated in 3 by elections they contested, yet GE 12 showed a different result.

      Your anger and hatred has consumed you so much that logic and rational thought seems to be suspended.

      Like

  45. Change of topic I see..oh well, diingatkan, soalan-soalan tak berjawab lagi..

    Now, let’s play your game…

    Ribut Perak timbul sebab 3 ADUN Pakatan lompat keluar jadi 3 ADUN Bebas. Tak masuk Barisan pun.

    As mentioned in my comments to you on the other article, the only way re-election for those 3 DUNs is the 3 Bebas DUNs to resign and relinquish their post. Ask them to step down, then we will have such elections as requested.

    In the mean time, since both having 28 seats, both are eligible to be government of Perak. I know, if I were to asked you to choose if you are Sultan of Perak, you ‘ll choose Pakatan to maintain status quo, but how do you re-but Barisan who held another 28 seats?

    Perhaps you can give us what will you do as “Sultan of Perak” if you have 2 sides having 28 seats, and Bebas ADUNs who wished not to resign and being Bebas?

    Please do enlighten us O “Royal Highness” …

    Laloo,
    “It is common knowledge that the judiciary,polis,macc are all corrupted to the core”????

    Kalau semuanya korup yang macam anda katakan, saya rasa, baik sekarang ni awak dah kena tangkap dengan polis, kena humban ke dalam penjara bersama semua pemimpin pembangkang…apa yang common knowledgenya?

    Baiklah, kalaulah korup la sesangat…

    Dear Tan Sri Musa Hassan, PDRM, MACC dan segala mahkamah di Malaysia ini,

    Sila bebaskan semua pesalah-pesalah yang dipenjarakan termasuklah perogol-perogol, pembunuh-pembunuh, perompak-perompak, pemecah rumah, dan sebagainya sebab Laloo kata anda semua korup yang juga membawa maksud keputusan menghukum mereka adalah salah disisi undang undang dan secara teknikalnya penahanan mereka tidak sah dan harus dibebaskan.

    Ok Laloo???

    ~ ODS

    Like

  46. Ondastreet,

    Apa change of topic,and what soalan not answered–if it’s Najib’s culpability then ask him to sue 16 countries who have headlined his news in their main stream media–but if you expect any evidence then I am sorry to say you wait till after 2013–PRU13 then you will get the evidence coming.
    As for the 3 aduns, 2 of them are facing court cases for corruption and khalwat–one of them even had the cheek to say they gave me a chinese girl–why should I refuse–this was televised nationally. I still remember Dr Wan Azizah asking PKR to severely punish them. And they knew PKR is contemplating of punishing them like Fairuz–former DCM 1 of Penang. One of them even said–since PKR does’nt want them he has to look for a new house. Najib was just waiting for the opportune time to trap them–and managed to make a member of the birds of the same colour will flog together–the corrupt with the corrupt.As for Hew–I remember reading somewhere–she was driving a mercedez benz–after the jump. As for asking them to resign as ADUN–who am I to ask them to resign—if they are anak jantan/betina and have principles–which definitely don’t have–then they should resign and face their electorates.
    As for the 28/28—-this is an impasse in democratic terms–and hence the assembly should be dissolved and fresh elections should be held. DYMM–who was once an eminent judge, should have acceeded to Nizar’s request for dissolution of DUN. But I don’t know what really transpired at the Istana when Najib went to see DYMM.It is established law that only the DUN can remove Nizar as the MB–therefore he is still the MB of Perak legally. As me being the Sultan of Perak–it is nonsensical talk.
    As for saya kena tangkap dan humban ke dalam penjara–this argument is bordering on absurdity. Kenapa saya ditangkap–saya rogol isteri awak ka,anak awak ka, adik awak ka atau liwat awak ka?
    No person with the right frame of mind and rasional will argue that all the criminals who are incarcerated should be released.
    What I am arguing here is SELECTIVE PERSECUTION. What happened to the hundreds of reports lodged against Mahathir,Rafidah, SamyVelu, Khir Toyo and so forth. No action taken. But the moment an Umno politician makes a report against PR politician–the polis and macc will immediately spring into action like what happened to MB Khalid and DCM1 Fairus. The head of Macc-Ahmad–the father of a phidophile–even had the temerity to say that he has solid evidence to charge Khalid for corruption–he knew very well that the courts will accept his evidence–he is the prosecutor and the judge.
    The legal fraternity’s verdict of our judiciary is grim – that corruption is endemic, judgments are perceived to be affected by undue influences and that the system compares very badly with other nation’s MCPX.
    These troubling findings are the result of a survey conducted by Transparency International Malaysia (TI-M) amongst lawyers in the country over March and April 2008, which involved 339 respondents.
    The outcome of the survey was released in Kuala Lumpur this afternoon.(21-10-2008)
    The numbers were damning, as 91 percent of respondents were convinced that judicial processes in the superior courts (High Courts, Courts of Appeals and the Federal Court of Malaysia) were often, mostly or always subjected to government and other undue influences.
    Only one lawyer out of the 339 felt that these courts were free from influence.
    The Penang Ismail makes a seditious speech–but the reporter and MP Teresa are arrested under the ISA–is this not selective persecution. The Umno convicted corrupted politicians like Ali Rustam, Khairy are not subjected to any form of action. Khir Toyol had been accused of embezzling money at DUN Selangor–RM110,000 a night at the Presidential suite–no action taken

    JMD : Just to interject, the figures you stated from the TI-M was inaccurate. It was not ‘only one lawyer out of 339 respondents’ but 9% out of 339. Another issue is, the survey was not limited to what the lawyers think about the government. It was what they think of the judges – whether they susceptible to influence of third parties – government OR other influences. To equate every instances to governmental influences are grossly unfair don’t you think? Because, undue influences do not necessarily come from government only. Furthermore, cases in Malaysia involving governments are minuscule compared to cases involving other parties. Thank you. Please read more here and here.

    Like

    • “As for saya kena tangkap dan humban ke dalam penjara–this argument is bordering on absurdity. Kenapa saya ditangkap–saya rogol isteri awak ka,anak awak ka, adik awak ka atau liwat awak ka?”

      Awak ni Laloo ke Tit4Tat?

      Aiseh..setahu ayat saya pasal kena humban masuk penjara tu saya tanya pada Laloo..ini orang lain yang jawab..ke dwi-personaliti?

      My simple question is the root question to Laloo/Tit4Tat’s long argument and ramblings as I see INCONSISTENT in making arguments.

      Seharusnya, apabila meletakkan beban kepada pihak pendakwaraya untuk membuktikan kes, sepatutnya all the way macam tu. Bukan sekejap macma tu, sekejap macam ni.

      Itu sebab saya tanya, kenapa tidak konsisten? Soalan ini yang tak berjawab. Tak perlu merapu pergi ke kes Perak, PRU13..PRU13 bukan KES MAHKAMAH, itu PILIHANRAYA.

      or, you have confused with Court and GE?

      ~ODS

      Like

    • One more Laloo/ Tit4Tat,
      “As for asking them to resign as ADUN–who am I to ask them to resign—if they are anak jantan/betina and have principles–which definitely don’t have–then they should resign and face their electorates.
      As for the 28/28—-this is an impasse in democratic terms–and hence the assembly should be dissolved and fresh elections should be held. DYMM–who was once an eminent judge, should have acceeded to Nizar’s request for dissolution of DUN. But I don’t know what really transpired at the Istana when Najib went to see DYMM.It is established law that only the DUN can remove Nizar as the MB–therefore he is still the MB of Perak legally. As me being the Sultan of Perak–it is nonsensical talk”…

      Before, you asked us to cabar UMNO. Should we use the same words as yours? I believe from my perspective, what we express here are ideas and thoughts for whoever to heed the ideas given by all of us. To force either Pakatan or Barisan to do exactly as what we say here is not really showing of how democracy works.

      Secondly, not all populist decisions are good for the people. Sometimes the bitter is better for the betterment of people, in this rakyat Malaysia.

      I’ve put forword to you, ask what will you do if you are a Sultan, and I believe you’ve answered that and I thank you.

      Just playing an advocate to your such answer, may I ask why should Barisan leaders relinquish their seats when actually Pakatan ADUNs who jumped the ship? Why should State government being dissolved when actually Pakatan’s caused such issue? If it is time binded by law, I can understand, but Perak State Government under Pakatan was just merely 1 year young, and lost its majority when their own ADUNs jumped the ship. Should be there re-election? Why not use the time given to strenghten our economic instead of non-stop by-elections due to MPs and ADUNs resigns “at will”?

      If yes, should I ask, given the same circumstances, in the event DS Anwar’s 16th Sept being realised, should be there another GE immediately? Should Pak Lah at that point of time also can provide the same solution as given by you? If yes, is that the act that reflects acting in the interest of Rakyat or not?

      I’ll await for your kind answer, O “Royal Highness”, as I do not know who are you really..Laloo or Tit4Tat..

      ~ ODS

      Like

  47. JMD,
    Thanks for the TI-M website–from what I read I never saw 9%—- It is at the Topic titled–Cleaning up the Judiciary. In another title–International Business and Bribery: At what costs–I found this statement–The most corrupt institution according to the Malaysian business executives was the police–BPI measurement 4(scale:1 not all corrupt, 5 extremely corrupt) So Ondastreet what have you got to say about this–you were worked up when I said the polis is corrupt to the core–so a scale of 4 stands where in your barometer.
    I am also tit4tat–it was accidentaly used which was meant for some other communication.
    As for the question– “Seharusnya, apabila meletakkan beban kepada pihak pendakwaraya untuk membuktikan kes, sepatutnya all the way macam tu. Bukan sekejap macam tu, sekejap macam ni”. The legal fraternity’s view in the TI-M’s survey should shut you up–its no use arguing when 91% of the legal practioners who responded to the survey have concluded that the integrity of the judiciary is at stake and held a low opinion of the judiciary–therefore you have no locus standi to argue against the legal fraternity’s views.

    Like

    • Laloo,

      “I am also tit4tat–it was accidentaly used which was meant for some other communication.”

      Accidentally used? I hope so..but funny when I think why do you want to use other names in the very same blog..I’m just thinking that maybe you wanted to show there’s many opposing such views..agaknya la kan..

      Tapi x pe..I’m rest assured you x sengaja…

      On the other hand, if you really find the police is corrupt very much (even though some of them themselves are trying very best to serve the nation and people), please be prepared as we are on the verge of chaos as police is very much corrupt. I wonder, in the event the police is being bribed and accused corrupt, who lead them? who gave them? The hardcore poor? The struggling part of the nation? I wonder who…

      Secondly, do you have any suggestions on how to lessen corruption? I hope your suggestions can be implemeted by SPRM and to whom it may concern. Please provide solution.🙂

      ~ ODS

      Like

  48. Laloo,

    Interestingly enough, despite their supposed “lack of belief” in the judiciary, they still come to the Malaysian Courts, argue their case in Malaysian Courts and in the drafting of their agreements, refuse to advise their clients to ensure that the clause on the governing law should be some other laws except Malaysia’s. They still file their defamation suits in Malaysian court seeking millions of Ringgit in the expectation that their dispute will be resolved.

    And they all say that the judiciary is corrupt to the core.

    If there is a restaurant out there who serves the most unhygienic food, would you still go to that vile restaurant ?

    Of course everyone has a standing to argue against the legal fraternity’s view ? Why the elitist attitude ? What makes lawyers so special that their opinion become a gospel of truth, beyond question and beyond challenge by anyone not called to the Bar ?

    You are supposed to champion equal rights for everyone.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment Lekiu.

    Like

  49. Legal fraternity as the bar council??

    hahahaha.. i remeber last may, when their website open up a poll for the publics.

    Hmmm..what may the title be..hmmm..
    aaarghhh…yes i remember who SHOULD NOT be in the JAC.

    And you know what?? The BAR council lead the polls..
    and now… IT IS NOT EVEN in their polling list… hehehehe… tho i manage to Screen Shot it!!

    Yeah…yeah…. kena percaya this legal fraternity… they are very open .. SSOOooo TELUS!!

    Like

  50. Ondastreet,

    I am just highlighting some surveys conducted by some NGOs. Its not my personal view. But of course I read the blogs and understand there are some selective persecution–as I have mentioned earlier. I didn’t encounter any personal confrontation with them. I agree with you, its not the hardcore poor who bribe them but the rich businessman. But thats not the question–if you are a policeman–you should be firm with your actions–like what the Singapore polis are—very very minimum corruption. They should arrest the briber then people will not dare to bribe–only that–don’t succumb to greed.

    Lekiu,

    Pls be practical in your agrument. As lawyers where do they go, go to the impartial courts in Singapore–is it. It is part of the judicial system where the lawyers can only go to the courts in Malaysia to practice their profession. Its just too bad that when they respond to some survey, they express their true feelings–its not their fault. Comparing a restaurant with the judiciary and asserting that everyone has a standing to argue against the legal fraternity’s view and why the elitist attitude ? What makes lawyers so special that their opinion become a gospel of truth? All this argument reflects on your absurdity. As a legal professional, he/she and only he/she is the person learned in the law; as an attorney, counsel or solicitor; a person licensed to practice law.” As laymen–we are not in a position to question them in matters relating to law. But if you are a lawyer–which I doubt– then I categorise you in the 9% bracket of the survey. Where do you stand against the 91%.

    Like

    • Well Laloo,
      I would say that I have to agree that the police who being tempted with such bribed should be able to control himself.

      However, they are also human. As much as they being tempted (for low pay but risky job), I have the admit the challenge is there.

      That is why, when one is caught, the one who gave the bribe can also being charged. That’s why, some police do undercover to catch these bribers (is there any such bribers?..macam x kena je..okla – perasuah)

      And for that cause, I’m not suprised that sometimes public misinterprete for such actions.

      ~ ODS

      Like

  51. Laloo,

    In the drafting of commercial agreements, in the last few pages there would normally be a clause called the “Governing Law” clause, I dare say most if not all the lawyers I know will always make Malaysian laws the governing law and to have Malaysian courts the forum to hear any dispute. If my clients prefer Singapore courts or UK Courts, I’d be more than happy to have such clause be inserted. Imagine having to travel to Singapore or UK for work cum holiday at client’s expense, fabulous.

    Contract law does not require agreements to be stamped in order to be valid. The reason why agreements are stamped is to ensure that if the agreements needed to be produced during trial it would be admitted as evidence instead of having to stamp it outside the one month period and then having to pay 5 times the amount of of stamp duty payable. Thus in essence the stamping of agreements is done to obtain the use of the machinery of the government, via the judicial system.

    Sometimes in commercial agreements, a clause on arbitration is included whereby parties would rather have disputes not resolved through the judicial system but rather through arbitrators. KL Regional Centre for Arbitration is an example. Despite the option to have disputes resolved by way of arbitration, most lawyers still insist on going to the Courts to resolve their client’s dispute.

    I suppose the reason why some lawyers are so negative is because of a few judges that suffers from a credibility issue.

    Having said that, objectively we lawyers (yes I am one of them and have been in the profession for more than 10 years!!) trust the system so much that in Kuala Lumpur alone, there are about 30 High Court Judges and Judicial Commissioners and more than 20 Magistrates and Sessions Court Judges hearing civil matters.

    Even then KL Courts are still bogged down with backlog cases. Most commercial cases takes about more than 3 years before it reaches the judge for trial. Not satisfied with the decision of the trial judge, clients will insist on filing appeals to the appellate court and that takes a few more years.

    Despite making more money if we were to advise clients to go for arbitration and not to mention swifter for the results to be obtained, we all happily resort to the “corrupted” judiciary to have our clients dispute resolved.

    Some time back some lawyers decided to go to the streets and proudly claim that “something must be seriously wrong when lawyers walk”, such a statement I thought smacks of an elitist attitude.

    In the history of mankind, revolution to end tyranny, from the French revolution to the Orange revolution have been by lay people not professionals.

    I think no statement should be taken as the absolute truth and beyod question even if it comes from a society of professionals.

    Like

  52. Lekiu,

    Well then I am wrong in assuming that you are not a lawyer. But as I have mentioned earlier, you fall in the 9% category. And of course you are entitled to your views, but the majority of 91% is simply over whelming to ignore. We shoud respect the majority view, afterall in every count the majority has the say and respect.Since you are a lawyer, you know the law well but the majority who responded to the survey are also lawyers and this majority are disillusioned with the Judiciary. I am sure they are not biased with their views but they are expressing their views thru experience.Hence we have to accept reality.
    When you talk about professionalism, only the people with the relevant qualification can talk and argue about the specific profession. Only a doctor can talk about the intricasies of a particular medical condition or disease. Not any Tom,Dick and Harry.

    JMD : Hmmm.. I do think that 91% of just 339 lawyers do not constitute the profession’s overall opinion of the judiciary. Since Lekiu is also a lawyer, let him express his views of the legal profession as he has the qualification to do so. His views are also important and should be taken into consideration. Thank you.

    Like

  53. Laloo,

    There are 15,000 or more lawyers in Malaysia. Judging from the cases filed in Malaysian courts and judging by the agreements seeking protection from the Malaysian judiciary, now which statistics you like to pick?

    Then again, you would pick the odd 300 disgruntled lawyers simply because it supports your idea that the judiciary is rotten to the core.

    Like

  54. Lekiu/JMD,

    When an organisation conducts a survey, it doesn’t go to all the members of a particular profession to gauge their views. It does a random survey–and it so happened that they only interviewed 339 respondents and only 1% of them hold high esteem of the judiciary–in fact I wrongly placed you in the 9% category–now I stand corrected—you are only in the 1% category. The overwhelming result is good enough to represent at least 90% of the legal brains in the country–that works out to 13500 of the figure quoted above. If you have got any statistics from any survey to rebut the above survey then you can also highlight it to support your stand. You are wrong to say that its my opinion of the judiciary–its the results of the survey conducted by TI-M that highlights the negative impression about the judiciary.
    As JMD said, since Lekiu is also a lawyer his views should be taken into consideration–sure I agree b’cos he is talking from his own experience–a hitch free ride with the dealings of the courts.But its just too bad that the majority of them didn’t experience the same as Lekiu.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment.

    Like

Astound us with your intelligence!

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s