Again, we are fortunate to have our regular reader Apocryphalist to send us an article regarding the issue of using Allah’s name in Malay bibles. This write up deals about a question – shouldn’t ‘Allah’ be used in all bibles in the world too? An outlook that should be pondered by anyone. I hope this article will be read by the relevant authorities as well. Thank you.
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The illustrious Malaysian Christian community have repeatedly asked that the name of Allah be allowed to be used in their bible, and the Malaysian government has repeatedly disallowed it for reasons of purity and sanctity: that by doing so is like admitting that that same Allah is the one who has a begotten son, shares the credit of creation with 2 other godhoods or godheads and teaches that everyone is born in sin and therefore registers a place in hellfire unless he/she admits that this begotten son of his was let to die to redeem for that original sin. Of course what seems to be a minor religious quagmire has now turned to a pseudo-political major imbroglio especially when the muslims on the other hand assert that those very same entity by the name Allah refute those very dogmatic ideologies and (islamic-wise) blasphemies in the Quran. As long as both parties sweep the issue under the carpet, and not highlight too much on differences and focus on similarities and converging points of beliefs, the two religions enjoy peaceful and harmonious coexistence, especially on the top levels.
But the issue on deity names have been thought of as threading on the shaky paths of conflict. I have dealt with this issue in a writing on Nov 12, 8:21 am in a much more concise albeit humorous manner. I think it is time for the Christians in Malaysia to play a role if they really are serious about this issue: putting the name Allah in the bible should be allowed by the Government of Malaysia only if the local christians believe sincerely in their heart that this is the REAL name of God. And sincerity means they should not have any problem in doing the following:-
(i) To collectively write a petition to the Pope as the Head of the Catholic church to insert the name Allah in every issue of the bible. No new copies of the bible in whatever language existing in the world today should be printed without the name Allah replacing “God” or “Lord”
(ii) A similar letter to the heads of all other denominations of the christian churches the world over urging them to do the same.
(iii) A formal declaration by the Pope and other denomination heads ascertaining that the real name of the deity as mentioned in the bible is indeed Allah.
(iv) An admission that as far as truth is concerned, the direct word as spoken by Allah (in whichever scripture) takes precendence in truth compared to indirect references by any third party humans.
Oh what a great place the world would be if 3 billion people in the world believe in the same thing. With this in mind, will the Christians in Malaysia do it? Write this letter?
No? Thought so. Well if not, will they at least sign the petition below? We get a few thousand signatures, send it to the holy see, wait for a reply on the declarations as well as new bibles from Tanganyika right up to Alaska printed with the name Allah in it, and we get those bibles locally printed with the name Allah in it, all sponsored by the Malaysian government.
Onwards, Christian Soldiers. Quid Pro Quo!
Pope Benedict XVI
Holy See, Vatican
Rome, Italy
Your Holiness Pope,
In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful[1]
(i) We, the Christian peoples of Malaysia as undersigned below, would like to obtain a holy decree from you ascertaining that the name of the Deity mentioned in the bible is indeed Allah.
(ii) For more than 20 centuries this Deity has not been mentioned by name and we now understand that His holy name is Allah, the same one that has been used in the Quran of the Muslims.
(iii) In the event that we obtain this decree from you, we would also like to request that each and every copy of the bible in this world at present and the ones printed in the future shall bear the name Allah too.
(iv) What would your holy order be regarding the teachings of Allah as promulgated in the Quran seeing how, as mentioned in (i) above, this God is no different from ours. In particular what would your holiness imply as regards to dogmatic issues in the new testaments especially the ones formulated by Saul of Tarsus (who have never met Jesus in person) as opposed to ones whom this Allah directly teaches in the Quran.
We would more than appreciate it if you can respond favourably to this and have some indication dates on when can the world-wide bibles be re-printed with this name Allah in it, so that we ourslves may enjoy this name to be mentioned in our own bible here in Malaysia.
Thank You
We, the Christian Community of Malaysia as undersigned:-
Name Signature MyKad Number Cath.Membership Number
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[1] We have even started the ball rolling, with the use of the Name here.
By,
Apocryphalist
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Update : Demi Negara posted a no holds barred post called – Oh Tuhan, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz while Syed Akbar Ali posted an equally interesting article here.
jebatmustdie 
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Is that an I Ching hexagram? Kee Kee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching
Anyway, I feel since Islam is the official religion, why not just defer to it.
Christianity won’t die because of the use of an Arabic name for God.
I am sure God himself will know and won’t be confused.
It’s just a ploy to confuse the less educated esp in the rural areas.
JMD : You’re one in a million Jed 🙂
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Is it going to be for now:
In the name of Allah the papa, Allah the son and Allah the ghost holy or maybe
Mary the momma of Allah.
What is wrong with using the word tuhan to describe god? It certainly is more distinctly Malay in origin.
I do not think the Hindus or Buddhist or any other religion would find it acceptable for the name of their deity to be co-opted by the Christians.
Mary the momma of Krishna or Siva or Buddha would I think be just as blasphemous to the practitioners of those religious persuasions.
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Tuan JMD.
This is a must read by The Majlis Fatwa Negara to be decimated to all Majlis Agama Islam Wilayah-Wilayah and Negeri-Negeri, to be followed by a muzakarah by all the Ulama and intellectuals of the nation and finally, should the Majlis Raja-Raja calls for a hearing, all concerned parties together with relevant points and facts are at everyone’s finger tips – so to say – so that all Muslims are notified by all imams through their respective mosques.
What I mean is, all Malaysians should know.
By the way, someone did write in a posting, something like “For Allah’s Sake” – I forgot where – in his blog. But I suspect this writer’s arguments are just for maybe some political gains or other.
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In that case, using the same vein of logic, it would also be similarly beneficial to get all Muslim authorities in the world to agree on a fatwa that all references to Nabi Isa in the Quran be changed to “Jesus Christ”. The followers of Christ came before Muhammad s.a.w., so by way of seniority, they should have rights to how Jesus is referred to, no?
Nah…let’s not go down that path shall we? Wars have been fought over things of much less significance. I’d rather have peace and a “live and let live” policy. Wouldn’t you?
First, why is this issue even an issue? Well, the short explanation is: from common roots in Arabia, where Muslims, Jews and Christians shared the same word for “God” (“Allah”) the 3 major religions and their adherents have diverged over the millennia to where we are today – intolerant of each other even mentioning what is perceived to be each one’s exclusive rights to names and languages.
So the REAL issue here is not the name of God per se. It is the attempted monopoly of languages and names by people who feel that others have no right to use. I mean, isn’t it attempted monopoly, when one group demands another group not use certain terms/names/phrases/etc because they claim exclusive rights to it?
Let’s approach this issue without the religious/political baggage. Let’s drop our coloured lenses and examine this issue with Eyes Wide Open and without bias. And let’s see the (il)logic of this whole issue. To identify the roots of this contentious issue, let’s take a short trip through the land of Etymology in our trusted vehicle, Logic.
(I’m not a Muslim, so I am not qualified to pursue the Muslim line of reasoning. But I can pursue the line of reasoning based on logic. And as logic is not slave to religion, I would suppose that this line of thinking is free from any bias either way.)
If we really logically took this argument about exclusive use of names and language seriously, there would be no end to the debates. What If the Indians decided that they want their words back? Then what would we use in place of “almari”? Or the Hokkien/Chinese decided that it’s time they got back exclusive use of the word “kuih”? Or the Portuguese decided that we had used their word “bangku” long enough?
Woh…that last one will open up a whole other can of worms as the Portuguese language has its roots in Latin. Although Latin is a dead language, its birth place is Italy, which is still very much alive! So where will all this legalistic wrangling lead us?
In the same vein, if Christians were not given permission by Muslims to use the word “Allah” and must be confined to only referring to the Divine Being as “God” – then, who do we have to ask permission from to use the name “God”?
You see, the word “God” is not a Hebrew or Greek word. It does NOT appear in the original Hebrew or Greek Bibles. “God” is actually an old English word, which in turn developed from an Indo-European word which simply means “that which is invoked.” So by that, Christians also have no exclusive rights to use the word “God”!
Now let’s look at what the basis is for some Muslims’ demand that Christian be disallowed to use the word “Allah”? To make sure that a demand has merit, we have to examine the roots of such a demand, don’t we? If we went to court with a demand but we have no evidence to back it up, it will be thrown out of court! So if Muslims all over the world decide to demand the exclusive use of the name “Allah”, we shall similarly have to examine the merits of such a demand, right?
The Christian contention has been that the name “Allah” is a generic term used widely in the Arabic world long before Muhammad s.a.w. came into the picture. Proof? Is not Muhammad’s (s.a.w.) full name Muhammad ibn Abdullah? His FATHER was named “Son of ALLAH” – long before Muhammad founded Islam!
To explore further, let’s look at even more ancient roots of the word “Allah”.
Now, the Hebrews had several referrances to “God” – the most revered one being Yahweh (the name revealed by God Himself). More common references include Elohim/Eloah, which actually DON’T specifically refer to the concept of “God” as we normally understand it today!
To split hairs, Elohim actually means “Strong One.” So, technically, I can actually refer to someone like Hulk Hogan as Elohim. But the usage over the years has embedded this word with a meaning all of its own, so that the understanding of the word has become “The Divine Being That Is All Powerful”.
However, the root-meaning of the word is unknown. It is generally thought that the same divine name is found in Arabic (Ilah as singular “a god”, as opposed to Allah meaning “The God” or “God”) and in Aramaic (Elah).
So, we can actually now see that the name “Allah” was originally NOT conceived with the meaning that it carries today, it was widely used in the Arab world to refer to “God” by people of Muslim, Jewish AND Christian faiths.
So why the big bruhaha now about Muslim exclusive use? And Christians having to petition the Pope and sign declarations and issue fatwas, ostensibly with the aim of arm-twisting them to accept the usage of Allah only if it conforms to the Muslim connotations of the name?
Actually, this whole thing basically boils down to the attitude of people, whose thinking is that – “this belongs to me, you can’t use it anymore!” (Hmmm….I wonder where you and I have heard such phrases before?)
But as Shakespeare famously said: “A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet!” If a true seeker of God found his Divine Being in a person called “Josh”, of what significance is the name? Does God mind what name He’s called? Do you know for sure? I mean, God is Spirit is he not? In the final day of reckoning is not the attitude of the hearts of man more important than the meaningless sounds tumbling forth from our mouths?
So let’s not get so caught up in pedantics about names of God. If God was really so important to us, shouldn’t we be spending our time and energy seeking Him than belittling and begrudging our fellow man on the journey towards Eternity?
JMD : After gleefully reading your long comment, I must salute you for the massive information given. Thank you.
But as your last paragraph stated, we should not be caught up with pedantics. If you as a non Muslim had said that, then what is the problem? “A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet!” right? You should tell the Herald that. According to you, God doesn’t mind what name he be called.
The history of the case can be summarised like this: The Herald had been publishing in Malay its newspaper with the name ‘Allah’ to denote the Christian God. Recently, it was discovered by the authorities (probably after some complaints) of this publication and an injuncture was issued. After that, the courts ruled (after hearing arguments from both sides) that The Herald must no longer print its newspapers in BM. After an appeal by The Herald, the courts ruled that The Hearld can print their newspapers in Malay but without the use of the word ‘Allah’. Instead of applying your advise EWO (that they should not caught up with pedantics), and be grateful of the compromise, they pursued the matter further; suing the govt etc.
I do not understand how people like to demand this and that but once an article like this came out, the same people will defend their actions using arguments that can be used against them! Do not demand if you do not prepare to give…
Oh by the way, one of the Herald’s argument was, the government cannot stop them to keep using Allah’s name because they had been doing that for years and the government had been silent. My take is, yes the government was ignorant of this transgression. But ignorance on the part of the government cannot be used as their defence! It’s like if a person had his money stolen quietly by his friend for the past 10 years, he no longer qualify to press charge his friend due to his own ignorance!
There are ulterior motives behind this pursuit by The Herald. And it certainly not about ‘monopoly of a language!’ The simplistic notion of ‘monopolising a word’ is not the central issue of this whole episode. Thank you.
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i , for one, pissed with non-islamic people wanting to use the name of Allah as if, there is only name they can use to get people to know their religion. Since i respected the rights for each being to be whatever religion they want to be in, we should find a simple solution to this problem.
my take, is that , let’s teach our children about islam, religion and humanity without any biased. I am sure once they grow up they know which is the rights and wrongs. because the most true (or is it truest or just an oxymoron.. he he)
usage of the word ALLAH lies in the heart of the believer.
my pak long used to say
“dunia tu sebesar pelukan kita, allah itu hanya di dalam pelukan”
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i support 100%.
please launch this on a big scale with the support of all islamic ngo’s and blogs owned by muslims all over the world.
better still take rome to court for not using the word allah in their bible
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not sure if you know what you are talkingabout.
JMD : Normally, apart from spams and profanities, I would have rejected this kind of one liners… Why? Because it contributes nothing to the discussion. But since, I am in a good mood today, I will give this particular comment a pass because I see that this particular commentator seems to know a lot and I feel that he has a lot to say too.. but perhaps, shyness kept him from commenting further.
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Thank you Apocryphalist via Jebat Must Die for putting down what I, and I’m sure many, many more have thought about all this while but did not know how to put across these thoughts as well as you have done. I know there are many who share my sentiments and who will forever be grateful to you for this.
Once again, thank you.
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Dear sir,
Will you give these a read?
1. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/BibAllah.html
2. http://www.submission.org/allah-god.html
Came across them when I was researching something.
JMD : Thank you for the links.
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Dear Apo
A brilliant classic check mate.
EWO
Much ado about nothing. Use the word “Tuhan” and case closed.
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JMD,
you said – “A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet!” right? You should tell the Herald that. According to you, God doesn’t mind what name he be called.
urm…can you enlighten me again on exactly WHO has a problem with using the word “Allah” in this case?
Anyway, in summary, i believe the Christian contention in this case is that:
1. Malay Christians in the region (in Indonesia and Borneo especially) have been using “Allah” to refer to God since time immemorial.
The Bahasa Indonesia translations of the Bible, which refer to God as “Allah” have been available for decades, if not centuries. To say that the govt of Malaysia was unaware of this is selective amnesia, as ALL publications MUST have the consent of the Malaysian govt before it is released to the public. Remember the Printing and Publications Act?
So what is REALLY happening in Malaysian is not that there has been a sudden reliasation on the part of the government, but more of a CHANGE OF HEART – from tolerance previously to intolerance today.
2. Arab Christians STILL refer to God as “Allah” with little hassle. Why the big hassle here?
Arab Christians live among an overwhelming 90%++ Muslim majority. And the Arab world is the birthplace of Islam. If they can live peacefully with each other re the mutual use of the name “Allah”, why can’t we here?
What are the socio-political changes that have contributed to this about face on the part of the Malaysian govt, which ostensibly hints at the desire to separate the nation’s peoples rather than unite them? How should we address it as a masyarakat majmuk Malaysia?
and finally,
3. To the Muslims’ contention that only Muslims have the right to use the name “Allah”, the Christian standpoint is that no one has exclusive right to using the name “Allah” as its use predates Islam, and possibly even Judaism!
Alahai…
In that case, to be fair, we exchange la! Muslims cannot use the word “Tuhan”. Must be fair to Christians ma. After all, if everyone started claiming back their words for “God”, what words do Christians use to refer to God?!
Remember, Christians did not start out as a distinct ethnic group like the Jews or Arabs. So the words we use are not tied to any “exclusive” ethno-cultural rights.
Pity us laa…
And I quite agree with “cam”. Teach our children in the ways of our true beliefs and they will not wander from it. Why be so worried that other religions using the word “God” will cause you to slip in your faith? I have sung Indonesian Christian songs which praise “Allah” and never once have I felt confused about my beliefs and the need to convert to Islam.
What we need is more dialogue and mutual respect, understanding and tolerance. Fighting for “rights” of use is just going to do more damage than good to ALL parties.
As to what your assertion hints at:
There are ulterior motives behind this pursuit by The Herald. And it certainly not about ‘monopoly of a language!’ The simplistic notion of ‘monopolising a word’ is not the central issue of this whole episode.
Well, that’s a whole other debate la.
JMD : Thank you EWO. But did you not comprehend this article? Shouldn’t the petition be taken seriously? Anyway, I am not in the same level as Apocryphalist although I will try to put in my two cents worth in this comment of yours.
To simply put it, yes the Muslims here has a problem if the word ‘Allah’ is being ‘hijacked’ by The Herald. By your own admission, since they actually have no problem to use other words besides Allah in their holy books in whatever language (as you implied by your Shakespearian rant), then why is it bothering them should Allah cannot be used in theirs (through the Home Ministry’s directive)?
Are they now insensitive to the feelings of the majority of thepeople here? Just because in defence of a moot point? Just to defend something which is not pertinent issue even among the Vatican.
If a minority cannot be sensitive to the feelings of the majoritu (on an issue, according to the defenders of The Herald, only involving a word), then what hope is there to forge a harmonious society? It is not about intolerance of the Muslims. It is more about accepting to the wishes of your neighbours (the Malaysian Muslims lah!)
Thank you.
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Sorry gua tak follow deep sangat benda ni….
Yang dok complain ni semua Christians in Malaysia ke?
Berapa jenis ade kat Malaysia? yang gua ingat ade Chatolik, Protestant, 7 Days,…..ape lagi anyone else knows…….ade mormon tak kat Malaysia?
Are they all in agreement ke about this
Yang kecoh ni Herald sorang ke?
well…..petition dah designed cantik tu…
🙂
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I’ve read EWO’s comment which was also published on his blog linked from Dato’ Sak and since you have rapidly approved it here, I prefer writing my piece on the livelier platform.
I have the feeling that this article will trigger emotional reaction from the Muslims and there would be provocations from their antagonists as well. I think I have read the same argument points from one of RPK’s No Hold Barred or Corridor of Power articles last year before he was arrested. EWO’s essay on this does feel like a deja vu. I can apologize EWO for failing to apprehend the issue beyond the surface perspective as he is a non-muslim.
This quagmire is beyond your (or RPK’s) simple reasoning on the basis of lingual relevancy. The fact is that in this country, it is illegal to lure Muslims to leave their religion. The act of the Herald was deemed by the authority to be susceptible in promoting confusion among the local Muslims, therefore the authority is merely intervening to eliminate such confusion. Muslim parents in Borneo share deep fears of having their children understanding in faith silently distorted by undercover missionaries. When the word Allah is seamlessly employed to describe the monotheism in Islam and the trinity in Christianity, what prevents these missionaries from preaching trinity to Muslim children at school who have yet to capture a thorough understanding of their parent’s religion? The usage of the word could start from publication today, and finally ends up as a common term in verbal exchange later.
It is not because the word ‘Allah’ belongs to the Muslims, it is because the law in this country protects Muslims from apostasy.
Malaysia inherited the constitution from Malaya where Islam is the official religion of the federation, since Tanah Melayu was comprised of states with a majority Muslim population under the sovereignty of the Muslim Malay Rulers, coupled with Islamic administration and culture that predated more than 400 years ago. Against Karpal Singh’s objection, Malaysia is indeed a Muslim country which tolerates the existence of diverse religions and minority ethnic cultures. Coming back to the main topic, the Malaysian Christian community should not complain if they are unable to use the ‘Allah’ as reference to ‘Lord’ in bahasa. Believe me, we are referring to the same God albeit the the difference in our understanding on the concept of Deity and the relevant practices. But in a unique country like ours, there is no substitute for mutual tolerance and respect. The majority must acknowledge the rights of the minorities to practice their culture and faith, while the minorities must in turn not insisting on engaging on sensitive provisions dear to the majority such as the religion. In this case, if the Muslims of the country are against the usage of Allah in a non-muslim religious context for various reasons, so be it. ‘Tuhan’ can be a formidable option to replace ‘Lord’.
p.s. Dear EWO. Abdullah, Muhammad’s father, does not equate to ‘Son of God’. It means the servant of God.
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Sdr Jebat,
kapada Sdr Apocrypalis
Tepat Padat Bernas.
terima kasih.
changkat lobak
arjuna waspada
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Hi JMD,
Your comment that “After that, the courts ruled (after hearing arguments from both sides) that The Herald must no longer print its newspapers in BM. After an appeal by The Herald, the courts ruled that The Hearld can print their newspapers in Malay but without the use of the word ‘Allah’.” is not correct. The Court has yet to decide on the matter. It was the Home Ministry that made this decision on its own.
Not all Christians agree with the need to use the word ‘Allah’. I am one of those who does not. My reason is simple – I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he is the only way to salvation. Any prophet coming after him is a false prophet. If I use a word that is synonymous with a different religion I am endorsing that religion’s false teachings.
(This is my personal opinion and belief. It can be sensitive to others. I am not trying to offend anyone – so apologies before hand if this comment sounds hurtful and I understand if you do not publish it.)
JMD : Thank you Ju. It is your right indeed to have faith in your religion. Your opinion comes from within the realm of your religion, same like others of other faiths. Hence, I believe you can also see the arguments by the Muslims pertaining the Herald’s decision. And thank you for the clarification. I satnd corrected.
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Eyes wide open wrote:
“In that case, using the same vein of logic, it would also be similarly beneficial to get all Muslim authorities in the world to agree on a fatwa that all references to Nabi Isa in the Quran be changed to “Jesus Christ”. The followers of Christ came before Muhammad s.a.w., so by way of seniority, they should have rights to how Jesus is referred to, no?”
It never was by “way of seniority”. The issue here is about the Christians wanting to use the word “Allah” in their Bible. If we want to use the word “Jesus Christ” in the Qur’an, then it’s the same issue. But we Muslims won’t do that, for it is a sin to tamper with the Word of Allah, and we’ll keep using the original words that Allah has revealed to us.
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Hihi..what a hillarious piece.
While we grapple with the technicalities, pedantics and all. At the end of the day, what I feel is just as important, if not more, is how the authorities engage the Catholics in this issue without splitting the country apart.
Hopefully no silly comments from politicians or anyone. Could we see the issue coming to a win-win solution for everyone, carried out with congeniality.
JMD : Not only the Catholics sir, but the government have to be aware of the Muslims’ reaction as well… Thank you Msleepyhead 🙂
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Dear sir,
Apo has argued brilliantly in one of his comments in Demi Negara. I have taken the liberty (and the necessary permission) to reproduce it in my blog for those interested but wary of wading through the swathe of comments in the original blog.
Salam.
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Being neither Muslim nor Christian, I guess I don’t really have a right to comment on this, but since I am a Malaysian and therefore “kaypoh chi” by nature, I decided to add my dua sen here.
The whole brouhaha, IMHO, boils down to weak governance by the powers that be. As the Government, lay down the law lah! If you all the time flip flop here and there, we as the rakyat will also be running around like headless (directionless?) chickens.
And by laying down the law, I don’t mean coming out with statements like “jangan cabar kami” or “don’t challenge the status of Islam” or the perennial favorite “don’t play with fire” BUT make a sensible well reasoned argument for your case, make a decision and STICK TO IT.
End of the day, and people can argue about this until the cows come home, the majority rules.
Just be rational in your arguments and fair and transparent (and firm!!) in your decision making and you will earn the respect of the minorities.
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What’s the difference between Allah and Tuhan? Is it just language?
Arab bibles will use ‘Allah’ for God because that’s their language.
Malay language version of the bible should use ‘Tuhan’ because Allah when used in Malay specifically identifies the Muslim God and not the Father, The Son & The Hoy Ghost.
No?
I think the Herald is being naughty in its insistence.
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Hi Malaysians
Nice one….. Lets see what the christians got to says now. 🙂 . I always thought this whole drama is getting absurd over a single Arabic Word.
Religion is cult. It doesn’t really matter if it is Islam , Christinity , Hinduism or what not. They are all CULTS . People got to embrace humanity then we won’t have this sort of idiotic arguments or differences among us.
As long as people believes in religion, they are always incapable of thinking rationally when it comes to religion.
Malaysian.
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In reality the issue is not about the legality, historical significance or even application of the name Allah by different societies or culture, it is about the lack of sensitivity in the context of Malaysian society where surely this would cause hurt and anger in a significant proportion of that society.
It is even perhaps excusable and forgivable for the Herald to have made an error of judgment in the first place, for they might indeed be living in a vacuum and thus oblivious to society in general, but to insist and even seek legal settlement clearly shows an arrogance and complete lack of care and concern to whatever damage it might cause to fabric of religious and racial harmony in the context of a multiracial and multi-religious society.
To add further insult, as have been pointed out by various commentators there is readily available the word ‘ TUHAN’ in the Malay language which would have been generally applicable and acceptable.
To help the Herald I would like to propose the following:
DENGAN NAMA TUHAN YANG BAPA DAN ANAK DAN HANTU YANG SUCI…..
This could be adjusted for the various regional dialects where applicable and of cause the Malay language is rich enough to provide various alternatives.
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Eyes Wide Open,
The language used during the time of Nabi Isa/Jesus was Aramaic and therefore it was pronouced as Eashoa. The Greek then changed it to Iesous and thereafter Anglicised as Jesus.
Very much like the New Testament, in the Quran the names of Jewish prophets have been Arabicised, consistent with the language in which it was delivered.
I believe what have antagonised the Muslim community is not so much the language but the concept that would result from the use of the name Allah by Christians.
In as much as the Trinity is central to Christianity, the idea that Allah is the sole divinity and is not begetteth nor begotten is central to Islam.
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The illustrious Malaysian Christian community have repeatedly asked that the name of Allah be allowed to be used in their bible, and the Malaysian government has repeatedly disallowed it for reasons of purity and sanctity
This sentence alone is enough to confuse everyone, including me who is a Catholic who owns an AlKitab. The AlKitab that I am reading, has the word Allah in it. The AlKitabs from the 18th century too have Allah word in it.
So, I am sure someone has misunderstood the court case between The Herald and the Government of Malaysia and the Bible, which is the Word of God to us Christians. The Bible in High Malay dated back to the 1700s used Allah. There are photos of the old Bibles on the Bible Society website.
And if anyone is interested to know, we do not use the name Allah as and when we like. We do not refer Jesus as Allah. We do not call on Allah’s name in our English worship.
The Gospel of John, chapter one verse one :
Pada mulanja adalah Kalimat, dan Kalimat adalah sama Allah, dan Allah adalah Kalimat. (High Malay Bible, published 1821)
Sebelum dunia ini diciptakan, Firman itu telah ada. Firman itu ada bersama-sama dengan Allah, bahkan Firman itu ialah Allah juga. (Modern Malay, 1976)
and the Catholic Alkitab that I am reflecting now says :
Sebelum dunia ini diciptakan, Firman sudah ada. Firman itu bersama-sama Allah dan Firman itu sama dengan Allah. (Alkitab, 2001)
And in English :
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (NIV)
I do not wish to engage into any arguments over the use of Allah and prefer to leave it to The Herald to deal with the court. However, your post above really confuses people because it gives the impression that we are trying to ‘grab’ this name now. The word Allah has been in used in the Bahasa Malaysia version of the Bible since year 1800.
JMD : Wow.. I wonder what did the Muslims call their God before 1800. I am so confused… 🙂 By the way you comment here had be replied by Apocryphalist in Nuraina’s blog here.
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Conveniently missing is the fact the word ‘Allah’ has been used in East Malaysia by the Malay-speaking Christian Bumiputeras, long before their entry into the Federation.
Only lately, has there been objections from folks from the West out to score points…
I can understand the irritation of our Sarawakian & Sabahan brethren towards the people from across the pond…
JMD : Are you from East Malaysia BrightEyes? From the (private) comments I received from Christians, most do not agree with the non Malays’ comments here. One such example can be read in Nuraina’s article here.
Also, please read the comment from Tehsin below.
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river,
Actually, I have no problems NOT using “Allah” in my faith. I hardly ever use it more than 10 times in a year, and it’s only when we are expressing our Malaysian-ness by singing Malay-language songs in church (most of them written by Indonesians).
Apocryphalist may have written a cheeky and appealing article, but it fails to illuminate the real issues in Malaysia as you do in your post. His article merely panders to religious emotionalism, and that serves no purpose but to drive the people of this land further apart.
However, your points are spot-on in the Malaysian context. And you concisely express these uniquely Malaysian issues in a few points. You said it best in this one statement:
“It is not because the word ‘Allah’ belongs to the Muslims, it is because the law in this country protects Muslims from apostasy.”
And on that score, it warrants a proper discussion.
If I may summarise your post in one sentence: the majority-Muslims in this country feel their faith – and by extension, their sense of self as defined by the Malaysian Constitution – is threatened when the minority-Christians refer to “God” as “Allah”.
While I understand that some Muslims may have fears of rampant apostasy happening (and I am not insensitive to such fears), these feelings are merely symptoms of even larger issues. And these are national issues, that have nothing to do with exclusive language or apostasy or even religion.
Issues like –
* Why does the already well-protected majority-segment of society feel threatened by a well-controlled minority-segment?
* Why has the attitude of the majority-segment of society towards the minority-segments devolved since Merdeka from acceptance to tolerance to suspicion to feeling threatened?
* Why has there been no effective dialogue among segments of society to build bridges and forge a strong nationhood based on mutual trust and acceptance?
* Why have such attempts been suppressed by the government while the divisive concept of “fighting for my own race/religion’s rights” have been given free reign?
These are serious questions that need to be resolved if we are to move forward as a cohesive nation. Creating more and more laws to curb the freedoms of the minorities for their perceived “threats” is NOT the way to build a nation!
Why is this happening in our country? Is it because the majority is harbouring more and more damaging suspicions (and subsequently, leading to intolerance) towards minorities? If that’s the case, wouldn’t the truth be the panacea to mere speculation?
Don’t be suspicious, be informed! The government should reveal the official data!
What is the apostasy rate among Muslims? Who are the persons responsible for such apostasies? Have they been brought to book? What are parents and mosques doing to instil solid religious values in their children so that they won’t turn away from their faith?
Every Malaysian knows it’s illegal for Muslims to convert, and illegal to proselyte to Muslims. If anyone has broken the law in that respect, there are more than enough laws to charge, prosecute and convict such “criminals”. We even have TWO legal systems to ensure no one escapes the law!
So where’s the “threat”?
All of this can be distilled into one simple truth: individual families and the govt should be doing their CURRENT job properly. If they do that, they won’t need to find new ways to keep the “dangerous” minorities away from the Muslims!
In all of this, the ultimate question we need to ask oursleves is “If our nation continues along this path, where will it lead to?”
I’m sure that if you do a little reading, you will have no problem finding a nation where suspicion towards minorities escalated to tragic ends. And you will find that they tread much similar paths that Malaysia is on now.
And THAT’S why I support the Christians’ continued freedom to use the term “Allah”. Because if we allow ourselves to be governed by more and more restrictive laws while failing to address the fundamental issues mentioned above, Malaysia will eventually become one of the select few nations that the world holds in infamy. !
So let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot! Let’s talk and come to an understanding as a nation. Dialogue, acceptance and mutual respect builds nations, NOT attrition.
p.s. I stand corrected. Abd-Allah is indeed the “servant of God”. Thank u!
JMD : Gosh, I do not know where to start when you ask ‘WHERE IS THE THREAT’?
Ayah Pin sect, Al Arqam, The Qadiani movement… scores of instances when Muslims were openly being proselytised by Christian missionaries..
But when the government are curbing these minorities, scores of people like Haris Ibrahim or yourself jumped the tiny bandwagon and incite more discord onto the Muslims. Haris Ibrahim, a Muslim by birth, actually went one step further. He actually condoning all the deviationists above as part and parcel of human rights! He who has thousands of readers to his blog is actually trying to create confusion among the Muslims and it is no surprising, the non Muslims are giving him support.
The government indeed should not feel threatened. We have laws. But people with vested interests are seriously undermining the majority’s feelings. To this, the government must protect. Read my pervious reply to you about tolerance.
Thank you.
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I think you should aptly put the issues as –
* Why does the already affable and accommodative indigenous majority-segment of society feel threatened by a foreign controlled minority-segment?
* Why has the attitude of the affable indigenous majority-segment of society towards the externally influenced and foreign controlled minority-segments devolved since Merdeka from acceptance to tolerance to suspicion to feeling threatened?
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Also this
“Creating more and more laws to curb the freedoms of the minorities for their perceived “threats” is NOT the way to build a nation!”
to
Creating more and more laws to mitigate the excesses of externally foreign controlled minorities for their perceived “threats” is the way to safeguard a nation!
Ta!
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“Is it because the majority is harbouring more and more damaging suspicions (and subsequently, leading to intolerance) towards minorities?”
No. Its only some suspicions on activities by foreign controlled and subversive elements out sow discords among the people.
All are the King’s subject except those who acting in treason.
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EWO,
So where’s the “threat”?
YOU
All of this can be distilled into one simple truth: individual families and the govt should be doing their CURRENT job properly. If they do that, they won’t need to find new ways to keep the “dangerous” minorities away from the Muslims!
THEY HAVE BEEN DOING GOOD JOB ALL THE WHILE AND REMAIN ALERT AT THE SAME TIME
In all of this, the ultimate question we need to ask oursleves is “If our nation continues along this path, where will it lead to?”
SECURED WITH THEIR EXCLUSIVENESS
I’m sure that if you do a little reading, you will have no problem finding a nation where suspicion towards minorities escalated to tragic ends. And you will find that they tread much similar paths that Malaysia is on now.
NO. IN FACT IT WAS THE OTHER WAY ROUND IN SOUTH AFRICA AND RHODESIA APARTHEID, ANGOLA,THE NORTH AMERICA BY THE PURITAN COLONIES AND SOUTH AMERICA SPANISH CONQUISTADORS AND INDONESIA DURING THE RULING DUTCH AND CHINESE LACKEYS. ARE THE MINORITIES DESIRE TO REVERT MALAYSIA BACK TO THESE SITUATION? ARE YOU DESIRING IT TOO?
And THAT’S why I support the Christians’ continued freedom to use the term “Allah”. Because if we allow ourselves to be governed by more and more restrictive laws while failing to address the fundamental issues mentioned above, Malaysia will eventually become one of the select few nations that the world holds in infamy. !
AHHH… YOU DO DESIRE IT, DONT YOU? WANTING IT SO MUCH TO HAPPEN RIGHT?
So let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot! Let’s talk and come to an understanding as a nation. Dialogue, acceptance and mutual respect builds nations, NOT attrition.
IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN PRE MERDEKA DAYS AND ARRIVED TO AN UNDERSTANDING OTHERWISE THIS NATION WOULDN’T BE BORN THEN.
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This latest posting here is an invitation to all Malaysians Muslims and Christians to unite, as one happy citizens of The Kingdom of Allah, believing in Allah as He should be believed; believing in His Al-Kitab as it should be believed; believing in all His Prophets as they should be believed; believing in the Hereafter as it should be believed; believing in His Angles as they should be believed ……. and so on and so forth.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Malaysia is endowed with citizens like these? As it is I have heard / seen / read many people write in their books that Malaysia is heavenly as compared to many other countries.
Yet here we see this intellectual Mr. Eyes Wide Open, at least in his two lengthy comments, weaves a weaver’s nest of an argument not how we Malaysians can enjoy this heavenly Malaysia, but how to sow doubts in our hearts by his evasiveness, his words-gymnastics —– and — and oh whatever —–
What are you up to exactly fine sir? Is it for this you are born? And for this — just to be special?
Just sign laaa. Eh Mr EWO?
Sign to erase all doubts.
———
Btw. I for one would never dare to label Isa / Jesus the way one Mr Ju label “Any prophet coming after him is a false prophet.” They teach me to believe, revere and love all prophets of Allah, to hold them in high esteem — and ….
Thanks and my apologies Tuan JMD if my tone is unbecoming.
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Pingback: In the name of Allah « On da street
Everything begins with the intention. The intention to use the word Allah in Malay bible is to confuse the Muslim Malays. Remember, people will give lives to stop any attempt at messing up with ‘aqidah.
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Salam JMD,
I wish to copy and forward the “proposed letter to Pope” to my e-groups for discussion. Surely, we can expect some interesting feedbacks especially from christians.
Anyway, Apocryphalis and JMD, you’re good!
JMD : By all means..
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Sometimes I do wonder what is the fuss is all about. The word Allah is use in house magazine meant for the circulation of Christians adherents. I see no point to limit that usage. As far as I know since Tun Dr Ismail time this practice was allowed, and for the past 30 years it has not cause a problem. Why do we need to impose what has work for ages.
Just imagine Jebat if they go to court and won the use of Allah in Christian Periodicals, it would be sad then as they can then use Allah in all publication not limited to in house only. It is as sensitive issue thus must deal with kid gloves. Allah is use by Arab Christians and Indonesians alike with no problem but here because it is sensationalize it is better to limit it to in house only. Let wisdom prevail and not hypocrisy and stupidity to gain votes be the bane of all Malaysians. As fpr the cruelty of the Bintang Tiga before BMA came to Malaya after the war, I do admit. Act of horrendous crime were mated by them , mostly against Chinese nationals who supported the Japanese. Some Malays and Indians too were murdered after a trial of the kangaroo court establish by them. It did lead to a racial war much more significant than May 13 and cover South of Perak. Parit ,Bota was the scene of gruesome mayhem but again as far as I am concern they were freedom fighters until we achieve independence or after the federal election of 1955.
JMD : You said : “Allah is use by Arab Christians and Indonesians alike with no problem but here because it is sensationalize it is better to limit it to in house only.”
Have you been to Indonesia? How can you say there are no problems arising from the usage of Allah in their holy books? The problems there are real and been one of the headaches of the Indonesian government.
It is precisely to evade the problems there that we have to put a stop with this problem here.
As for the CPM, were they really freedom fighters? Freedom fighters against who? Please read Chin Peng’s book. The communists killed more local people than the Japanese and the British combined in their ‘fight’ for freedom. To me, they were bunch of opportunists who were controlled by foreign powers (Commitern etc) to expedite the fall of the domino.
Thank you.
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If the KMT won in China, the KMT here will be doing the same thing. Both are two of the same coin anyway.
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It is hilarious actually. These barely concealed attempts to confuse the ignorant. Here we have some Malaysian Christians fighting to use Allah in the Bible,while once upon a time the Hausa translation of the Bible in Nigeria which used Allah to refer to God was under fire for creating confusion. To the critics, it was sacrilegious to refer to their God as Allah, The One who did not share the same human characteristics of a father bearing a son. This could not be, they hysterically denied. In fact they went on to state:
This has been discussed in these pages in the past. That Allah is not the God of the Bible is very clear. The biblical God is called Yahweh (or Jehovah) nearly 9,000 times. Yet Allah is not called by that name even once in the Koran. Why not, if Allah is the same God? God is also referred to as Elohim more than 2,500 times in the Bible, but again that word never appears for Allah in the Koran.
They also stated firmly: Allah is no mere linguistic designation for God, as Dios in Spanish or Dieu in French. Allah is the name of the god of Islam
So you have some Christians fighting to keep Allah out of their bible and then you have these Herald fellas.
Are the Christians suddenly confused themselves here in Malaysia? Are they facing an identity crisis?
Or are they MERELY OVERSTEPPING THE BOUNDARIES AND TESTING THE PATIENCE OF MUSLIMS?
I think its the latter.
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Malaysian Christians out of step with their own Christian world.
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Oh wait!
Maybe the Heralders and the other wayward Christians have finally seen the truth! That Jesus (peace be upon him) never claimed that he was God? They admit now that Allah is the same God that Jesus (peace be upon him) preached about before the powers that be ascribed lies to him/distorted his message? Alhamdullilah! 😉
They must’ve done some research:
One of the doctrines which has been exposed to not be contained in the Bible but which the Church has attempted to insert into the Bible during the Dark Ages is the doctrine of the “TRINITY.” This simple fact which was exposed by God in the Qur’an fully 1400 years ago is now beginning to be recognized even in official Trinitarian references. For example, let us read the following quotations:
In “The New Catholic Encyclopedia” (Bearing the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, indicating official Church approval) we get a glimpse of how the concept of the Trinity was not introduced into Christianity until close to four hundred years after Jesus (pbuh):
“…….It is difficult in the second half of the 20th century to offer a clear, objective and straightforward account of the revelation, doctrinal evolution, and theological elaboration of the Mystery of the trinity. Trinitarian discussion, Roman Catholic as well as other, present a somewhat unsteady silhouette. Two things have happened. There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma ‘One God in three Persons’ became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought … it was the product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development” (emphasis added). The New Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV, p. 295.
Another point that probably came to their attention:
In “The Dictionary of the Bible,” bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval):
“the trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God are three persons who subsist in one nature. That belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief.”
The Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 899
and this:
“In the Old Testament, the Unity of God was clearly affirmed. The Jewish creed, repeated in every synagogue today, was ‘Hear, 0 Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord (Deut. 6:4). This was the faith of the first Christians, so Paul writes, ‘There is one God and Father of all, Who is above all and through all and in you all” (Eph. 4:6). But gradually some addition or modification of this creed was found necessary. Christians were fully persuaded of the Deity of Jesus Christ and later of the Deity of the Holy Spirit, and they were compelled to relate these convictions with their belief in the Unity of God. During many years, the problem was discussed and many explanations were attempted. One advanced by Sabellius, that became fairly popular was that Christ and the Holy Spirit were successive manifestations of the Supreme Being, but finally, the belief prevailed that the words Father, Son, Spirit, declared eternal distinctions in the Godhead. That is, that the Trinity of Manifestation revealed a Tri-unity of Being. In other words,’ that Christ and the Holy Spirit were coeternal with the Father. With the exceptions of the Unitarians, this is the belief of Christendom today” Christadelphianism, F. J. Wilkin, M.A., D.D, The Australian Baptist, Victoria.
I must say, maybe they have seen the light through their own confusion!
Maybe we can soon all be one big happy family as the fogs of distortion clears!
Then everyone can say ‘Allah” and we will know they mean the One and the same and they are not trying to spread the lies of Trinity in a devious manner!!
Ok?
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Thank You Jebat for posting my article. And I thank you all for commenting on it. In as much as I can, I will try to reply, constrained by the fact that I am only a “squatter” here, depending on the kindness of Jebat to post or not to post any of my writings, especially if it will involve lengthy replies.
Et tu, Jed? You mean, as a non-muslim, you also realize that this whole schmoozle is a ploy right from the start? That’s a much needed relief especially since everytime we muslims try to highlight it so the allegations of “fear” and “insecurity” are thrown upon us.
EWO, have you actually read the Quran? There isn’t a SINGLE place there where Jesus Christ is mentioned as “Nabi Isa”. You have Isa son of Mary, you have Messiah son of Mary but never Nabi Isa.
So then next Q is why not change Isa to Jesus? Simple. Isa is more closer to the original name of Jesus than Jesus is. Aramaic is the brother language of Arabic as much as Ishmael was the brother of Ishaq. In the original Aramaic, the name of Jesus is Y’Shua (Yee-shoo-a) and the Arabic is Eesa. Where does Jesus come from? Go and ask the Greek and other translators that were to come centuries afterwards. In fact, if we could have a time machine that could bring one back to the time of Jesus and one were to mention the name “Jesus” to Jesus he would in all probability ask “ who, now?”.
Nuances, do not wait to exhale too long. If the malays hadn’t embraced Islam in the 15th century, the present fight would have been perhaps the inclusion of the name Krishna or Siva into the bible. Theologically, episcopally incorrect? Don’t worry. They’ll find ways to make it correct. Just go with whatever the malay population has for the name of God.
Cam, I for one, am not pissed with non-muslims in using the name Allah. In fact I am hopeful: if everybody starts to use the name Allah, shouldn’t we all now be happy? With a common Name at hand, we can then proceed with next steps to prove the following:
(i) The Truth of the prophethood of Muhammad
(ii) The Truth of the words of this Allah, especially regarding the divinities of Jesus and his mother and christianity, in the Quran.
(iii) Evidences of the changing of the scriptures in the hands of the Judeo-Christian priests as was highlighted by this Allah in the Quran and in the sayings of the prophet Muhammad.
(iv) The highlighting of the prophecies about the coming of the prophet Muhammad in the Old Testament which for centuries had been wrongly attributed to Jesus etc etc.
Yes, the acceptance of the word Allah will indeed solve a lot of theological mysteries and be a step closer in the unification of the original Religion of Allah as was taught right from Abraham till the Prophet Muhammad.
What I am pissed about, however, is this: they are insincere about it. The word Allah is only to be used in the bibles that are to be translated in malay but not for the rest of the Christian world. In other words it’s like this: “Listen you malay punks and Mat rempits. Have a cigarette here. The Allah that you worship is also our Allah. See here? In this Perjanjian Baru? See it says Allah? And you know Mat, you have been sinned right from the day you were born. But accept Jesus and you will be free from this sin.”
But will the name Allah be used in the masses, hymns, noels and chants in all other cathedrals in the world? Noooooo …. Will they pray to the name Allah in silent, both at home, during meals, when going to sleep? Noooooo…Will the constitution of the United States, for example, and that of other christian countries in the world, substitute the word Allah for God? Will the Pope and other Christian heads give a decree that this deity that had been nameless right from the inception of the New Testament is now really Allah? And if they will, when can we start having bibles in almost all other languages in the world that prints this name?
THIS is the issue, you see. We are waiting for a salient, firm reply from reputed christian personalities, not the roundabout knowledgeless rambings like EWO above. And if the christians can’t write this letter, will they agree to sign a petition that has this effect?If they can’t do both, shouldn’t it be the right time to keep their mouths shut?
Kassim Selamat: Take Rome to court? Hmmmm… never thought of that. Good one. Fancy an idea where some puny mortal Malaysians sue a big worldwide theocracy. Whoops! Already beaten to it by Hindraf in the sue-the-Queen case. Darn!
V, instances of using Allah in arabic to replace God is erroneous and I can prove it. But it will be very long. Perhaps another time: I am just tumpang sekaki here and this is not my blog. Do you have one? I can gladly go there with my proofs.
Ju, I like your arguments better than that of the other christians in this blog. You are full of conviction of the truth of the religion that has been taught to you, although you imply that prophets after Jesus, (ergo including Muhammad) are all false. Of course the muslims do not reciprocate likewise regarding Jesus. Unlike the Jews whose Talmud says that Jesus was born out of wedlock from a prostitute mother with a roman centurion, practised black magic and is now in hellfire boiled in semen and faeces, the muslims defend the purity and virginity of Mary, the ministership of Jesus, believes in his miracles administered by the power of God, and puts it as an article of faith to believe in his second coming. In fact there are a few other points which the muslims are taught which are non-existent in christian teachings.
The Quran speaks of his miracles while as a baby, and fashioned birds out of clay and breathed life into it with the permission of God. Found this anywhere in the bible? Nope. Another fact is that the muslim is encouraged to recite “alihis Salaam” whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned. Not even your Doctors of Divinity practise that, I think. And here’s the clincher of all: Christians have been taught that there will be a second coming of Christ. How and where? Nope, never told. But the prophet Muhammad tells us EXACTLY where, which spot, in what manner will he be brought from heaven, carried by who and what is the first object he requests as soon as he lands on earth (Oh what a lovely piece of Hadith that is!!).
Nope I won’t divulge too much here. I want you to go and study more about Islam and the teachings of Muhammad. Read, ask people, converse, research and the truth will surprise you! (Hoi that goes to you all muslims too! Baca laa banyak2 and increase knowledge of our own religion. And saja nak bagi Trailer Teaser: there was a companion of the prophet Muhammad who had probably MET JESUS in his lifetime!! This makes him to be more than 500-600 years old !! Who? Research laa! Clue: The Hadith is Sahih!)
So sliced crosswise I have this picture now: the Prophet Muhammad has taught that it is an article of faith for the muslims to believe and revere Jesus as a great man of God and that one can no longer be a muslim (batal shahadah) unless he believes in the prophet-hood of Jesus, while your teachers taught you to say that Muhammad is a false prophet?
Think about it. The person in the picture above wearing the zucchetto will very much disagree with those teachers of yours!
Apocryphalist
JMD : Thank you Sir. Hopefully people can see that The Herald is not sincere in their effort. If its just a word, then it does not matter for The Herald. They can just use the word Tuhan. They are treating Allah as a common noun anyway (since they call their God as Jesus, Yahweh, Elohim or Lord etc but not Allah) If they have relegated the sanctity of the Muslim’s God into a common noun, then they as the minority should just gave way to the wishes of the majority and instead use another common now: ‘Tuhan’
If they now are saying that Allah IS THE PROPER NOUN of the Christian God, then that’s what the petition is for.
Alas, since EWO also noted, why would the majority be threatened with the minority? Laws and rules are there to protect the majority. If the Home Ministry ruled that The Herald should stop its publication in Malay, then so be it. Why should the minority threaten the majority further?
A million thank you Apocryphalist.
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I’m not a Muslim nor Christian, but all this hype about the use of “Allah” has made me more interested in the use of the word in both religions and prompted me to find out more.
Initially, I supported the govt’s stand as I thought “Allah” is used exclusively by Muslims and usage by Malaysian Christians to refer to God as Allah in Malay will only create confusions among children of any religion (still don’t know much about their own religion ma) and non-Muslim/Christian adults (it shouldn’t create much confusions among true Muslims or Christians as they should be familiar with their own God and religion already).
However, upon learning that East Malaysian Christians (~60% of Christians are East Malaysians who are mainly Malay speakers as well) has indigenised the term “Allah” to refer to God’s generic name (and “Tuhan” for “Lord”) in their Malay bibles ever since the adoption of the religion into that region, and that Arab Christians (and Jews as well) have been using “Allah” to refer to God too (and obviously they’re not confused as we thought they would have been), I don’t see why the government should restrict the usage of Allah to Muslims and in Islam only anymore.
And I finally understood why the Herald needs a Malay version (to cater to its Malay speaking Christians particularly in Sabah & Sarawak), and why the paper continues to used the term Allah (because the Christians have done so since the interception of Christianity into this region). And our government suddenly felt that Islam is threaten? After sooooo long?
When all these became clear, I felt like a fool that have been cheated by our (manipulative) politicians, again. But still, have to thank them. If they didn’t stir up so much controversies with this issue, I wouldn’t have bother to find out and be enlightened. And there won’t be so much interfaith discussions as well, which eventually help contribute to mutual-faith understandings. ^^
JMD : Hopefully the Christians will do a petition like what is stated in this article, should they not Rin? Also, you need to read all the comments here before you make further assumptions.
Also, please read this article too:
Thank you.
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EWO,
We are not “afraid” of anything. It just irritates us when deviousness and ulterior motives and deceit are passed off as so-called “intelligent” discourse in the name of “freedom of speech” and ” human rights” and “nation building”.
What mutual respect are you talking about when OTHERS have no qualms about crossing the boundaries of decency and respect for Islam/Muslims?
By shooting this latest attempt to proselytize point blank in the head, the authorities ARE doing something to address the issues of apostasy. Problem is, when Islamic authorities attempt to correct misinformation amongst Muslims, people like you come out and attempt to interfere with our beliefs and denigrate our ulama and efforts! Take the Yoga and Tomboy fatwa amongst others. Not that it hurts us or weakens our resolve, but we DO have to come out and counter your poorly disguised agenda.
Where do I see the majority suppressing the minorities? CASES of sheer irresponsibility, lack of accountability, abuse of power…yes. Happens everywhere, even the the good old USA, the shining beacon of democracy and justice (oh…that was then people, its just a pet Israeli WarRottweiler now).
Instead, what we can really see is an organized attempt to suppress, denigrate and create distortion and suspicion in the whole nation by the virulent few with their continued actions as “duri dalam daging”.
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Actually a lot of my points came from here http://thenutgraph.com/for-allahs-sake, and here http://hsudarren.wordpress.com/2007/12/29/do-malaysian-muslims-understand-what-allah-means-by-dr-farish-noor/ and their respective comments.
As for the question of should the Christians sign the petition or not, that is up to them to decide. It sounds cliche, but it’s their choice. We often refer to Muslims or Christians as if they are a huge homogenous group (as we often do with race and ethnicity), but we all know there are different kinds of Muslims and Christians as each individual is unique. There are Muslims who do mind other religions using Allah to refer “their” God, there are some who don’t, and there are also some who are only “Muslims” by name. There are Christians who insist on the use of Allah in the Malay bible, yet there are others who don’t give a damn.
But of course in Malaysia, majority always have a louder voice, minorities sometimes, if not always, get sidelined or marginalised, and left to fend for themselves. (Majority’s feelings are the most important ma, who gives a damn to the minority? Go stand at the side) The Herald is luckier, it actually got international attention! And now a lot of Malaysians are actually talking about it.
JMD : Believe me Rin, things would be a lot worse if the minority are really sidelined or marginalised here in Malaysia. But that is not the case.
And you referred your assupmtions only on those two articles? Have you cross referenced your assumption with writings from the other side of the arguments?
Hopefully you had read all the comments from the Muslims here in this commentary section too.
Since you are neither a Muslim nor a Christian, I’d take your comment here lies whether the minority wishes should be considered by the majority. Correct?
Folks, it is established here (from the many comments that are pro Herald) that putting the word Allah in their publication is not because of religious necessity. It is only a lingual issue. They gave many examples of how the name Allah is being used since before Islam or in the case of Malaysia, since around 1800. Many examples were cited about the word ‘Allah’ being used in Christian books. All this amount to a single argument that the pursuit of using the word Allah is just because – it has been used before as part of the language.
Therefore, I have come to conclude that it is indeed a lingual issue. They did not give any examples such as the Christians’ faith will be eroded if the name Allah is NOT put in their Bible (indeed, in the bibles world over, 99% of them do not have the name Allah in the scriptures).
As it is, even if they had replaced the word ‘Tuhan’ for ‘Allah’ in their publication, it will not jeopardise their faith (from the many stories we heard, the Christians world over themselves including here in Malaysia do not pray to the name Allah in their prayers).
Now, the crux of the matter is, since it IS JUST A LINGUAL ISSUE from the Christian point of view, but at the same time, it unfortunately impinges on the religious sensitivities of THE MUSLIMS, then here is the question. WHICH IS THE MORE IMPORTANT factor that needs to be considered and give weight to?
Logic dictates it should be the Muslims point of view. It does not matter whether it violates the minority rights so on and so forth. That is not the issue here. Do not cloud the issue with the bogus and hypocritical cries from the so called agents of disunity in shouting freedom of speech, minority rights etc… They are there because they hate the government. But that is a different matter altogether. In this case, they had inadevertently mixed two different issue into one. Hence, the ulterior motives are unveiled in front of our eyes.
Thank you.
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Rin, regarding the Sarawakian or the Sabahan christians needing to have the word Allah in their usages, do not be too hasty to rest on deluded laurels. Rather than based on hearsay, listen to the following experience from ground-zero itself from this guy called Damansara in Nuraina Samad’s blog:-
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=38530403&postID=1934838028352175253&pli=1
Lillian, I have replied to your “confusion” in Nuraina Samad’s blog: you posted the same here as you post there. It’s interesting you’d like to broadcast your “confusion” in several places. But fret not. I have put your confusion to rest there. Readers are welcome to visit there too for a slightly skewed angle of the whole Allah name polemics.Thereby, all references you quote of the bible in malay are moot. In fact as Tehsin has brilliantly pointed out via his thoroughed research (congrats, Tehsin!! Terima Kasih Daun Keladi. Boleh tak kami nak lagi?) your very action of quoting and reading bible using the name Allah could be very well AGAINST christian teachings. Please read the references given by Tehsin.
Donna, has it ever occurred to you that in lots of ways the followers of Muhammad accord more respect, more reverence and more love to Jesus even much more than the Christians do themselves? Read my previous statements. This respect and reverence, however, is not reciprocated by them to prophet Muhammad. Remember the politician GeertsWilde case? We don’t have such analogues in the muslim world. If there is so much as ONE single person in any muslim world behaving that way towards Jesus Christ, or as much as say just ONE insignificant satirical cartoon or whatever that portrays Jesus Christ in a negative way, the entire muslim nation or country in which he lives will come down pounding on him. I remember during the case of Martin Scorcese’s film The Last Temptation of Christ where he tried to portray Jesus Christ having sex with Mary Magdalene (freedom of expression laa konon) the muslim communities picketed around theatres with the christian counterparts in condemning the picture, something which even some christians themselves pandang remeh on it. This gesture tells lots of people lots of things. What they are, you can just conclude yourself.
Omongwaras, belum checkmate lagi. I remember playing a chess game sekali dulu and I had the chance to checkmate my opponent. Instead, I advanced a few pawns to the 8th rank and instead of queening them, promoted them all to knights!! For those well versed in this game, you know that one would rather beg to be killed rather than face this situation of slow galloping tortures! Hehehehe. Ah nooo… I am not implying anything here, except that I am quite a sadistic chess player!
Lastly Ewo continues his confusion about many things. Abdullah Son of God laa, Nabi Isa in the Quran laaa. Ishh macam2. He quotes hither and tither but what I think you really are, is just someone with a Masters degree in Googling. Camni laaa. Kalau kail sejengkal wikipedia, tak usah diduga laaa kolam ikan puyu Jebat. The longer you take to realize that you really are out of league and out of class here, the longer you have to tag your embarassment wherever you go, all the while unnoticed.
Apocryphalist
JMD : Actually dalam kolan ikan puyu tu ada ikan patin ganas bernama Apocryphalist… Thank you for the comment!
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Apocryphalist,
I am ALL woman…I is not a “he”…Saman baru tau…
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Having read the Koran and understood it I will not use the term Allah for God in any reference to the Almighty.
Please read and understand the Koran and you will what I am saying.
JMD : Are you confused? Please state your case concisely. Thank you.
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Apocryphalis r u sure u r not Arapaima 🙂 semua kena telan ni…
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Sigh…
JMD,
You pick my individual statements out of context so you can argue them but completely ignore the main points. Why not discuss the main points that I’m making instead of picking at loose threads? I have no interest in chasing after loose threads with anyone.
And your statement:
“Do not cloud the issue with the bogus and hypocritical cries from the so called agents of disunity in shouting freedom of speech, minority rights etc… They are there because they hate the government. But that is a different matter altogether. In this case, they had inadevertently mixed two different issue into one. Hence, the ulterior motives are unveiled in front of our eyes.”
I consistently called for national unity, built on mutual understanding and trust. But somehow you lump me under this group of subversives?
And pray tell, what’s my “Christian hidden agenda” as has been eluded to here so frequently, and so frequently held up as an example of how “dangerous” Christians are to Muslims in this country? Can anyone openly state it, and prove it beyond reasonable doubt, using the many statements that I’ve made?
Gosh, and you still think there’s NO PARANOIA?
Apo,
So I made a few minor slip ups. I freely admit my mistake about Abd-Allah, which was a typo, BTW. But your comment about my referance to Nabi Isa is really pathetic and speaks about your petty-mindedness more than anything else you’ve written.
Was I wrong to refer to Isa as “Nabi”? Do you mean to say he wasn’t a Nabi? Or did you mean I was being impolite to refer to him by the prefix Nabi?
Ok. Coincidentally, this was my response to a comment I got on my blog. I think fits into this discussion nicely. This time it’s in language that perhaps even you can understand.
Anonymous said…
“in that case, using the same vein of logic, it would also be similarly beneficial to get all Muslim authorities in the world to agree on a fatwa that all references to Nabi Isa in the Quran be changed to “Jesus Christ”. The followers of Christ came before Muhammad s.a.w., so by way of seniority, they should have rights to how Jesus is referred to, no?”
erk??!! your mind twisted ar?? its the way round, rite?? kalau kami mahu tukar kepada Jesus Christ, d=then kalau nak meroyan pun baru kami tak kisah.. ada faham?? tak faham bahasa melayu??
February 2, 2009 6:51 AM
Eyes Wide Open said…
Anon,
Listen carefully ah… I will try to make it as simple as possible so your feeble brain can get it. I try not to use words that have more than two syllables (oh, sorry…i mean…”word…parts”), ok?
I also make it as easy as 1,2,3 so even tadika brain like you can understand.
Apo says…
1) Only Muslims can use “Allah”…because only Muslims worship the “One True God”
2) So…all other religions cannot use “Allah”…because they don’t worship the “One True God”
3) if SOME Christians want to use “Allah”, we must ask the Pope to agree that ALL Bibles use “Allah”…and Christians must only use it in the Muslim way
So far so good…? Are you bleeding in your brain yet…? No…? Ok…we go on…can…? Ready…?
I say Apo’s logic is STUPID…! Because if like that…I can also use the example that…Christians can also say:
1) Only Christians can have Jesus in their religion…because only Christians worship the “One True God”…and Jesus Christ is God’s Son…and is the same as God
2) So, all other religions cannot have Jesus Christ…because they don’t know the “One True God”…and the real Jesus Christ
3) If Muslims want to keep Jesus in the Quran…they must get a worldwide fatwa…that they are talking about the “Christian Jesus”…and must refer to Him in the Christian way in the Quran…that is, “Jesus Christ”
Ha…Itulah persamaan logiknya. Dan kedua-dua logiknya sama-sama BODOH!
Yang BAHLOL macam ENGKAU sahaja yang tak faham apa yang tersurat. Kefahaman dapat berapa markah dalam SPM?
So, sekarang…ada faham?? Tak faham bahasa Inggeris tahap tadika?? Kalau macam tu, baik mintak mak pergi daftar bagi engkau belajar tadika lagi! Lepas tu, pergi daftar tusyen Kefahaman BM.
——-
Alahai…so you guys can’t get satire, can’t get the salient points of an opponent’s arguments, can’t respond beyond the same tired points.
So yes Apo, I guess I really am completely out of your league. But I’m trying my darn best to downshift my mind to adapt!
JMD : If you felt that I had insinuated you as an agent of disunity, then what can I say? I never accused you in particular. But if you ‘terasa’, then its not my fault. You yourself said that – ‘I consistently called for national unity, built on mutual understanding and trust.’
So likewise, can you understand the Muslim’s point of view (with regards to my reply to Rin above) and trust them that it is nor about persecuting the rights of minority.
As for the paranoia, well, please read this:
1) http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2002/05/stealth.html
2) http://www.joshuaproject.net/joshua-project.php
3) http://www.joshuaproject.net/countries.php?rog3=MY&sf=primarylanguagename&so=desc
4) http://satdthinks.blogspot.com/2009/02/devil-in-data-investigating-need-for.html
There are indeed people who would go against the Malaysian Constitution to proselytise Muslims.
I do not understand why we keep on receiving comments like these. Many were made but people STILL miss the point of the whole article: What are they going to do towards proving their sincerity that they REALLY believe Allah is the name of the one and only God? Will they petition the pope or the all the heads of church? Will they silently pray to this name in church, at home, in the silent comforts of their own solace?
THIS is what we want to know first and foremost, not just use the name Allah whenever they talk to young malay muslims but in their hearts they disbelieve on His purity. I am not interested to open up more cans of worms of differences between the 2 religions. If that is not possible, then indeed all the problem started by The Herald is purely a matter of semantics and linguistic issue. Not a big deal if compared to the Muslims feelings in knowing that ‘Allah’ is being hijacked and turned into a concept of the Holy Trinity.
If the minority Herald cannot fathom and tolerate this kind of understanding, then lets not talk about living harmoniously with each other.
Thank you.
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Apo says…
1) Only Muslims can use “Allah”…because only Muslims worship the “One True God”
2) So…all other religions cannot use “Allah”…because they don’t worship the “One True God”
3) if SOME Christians want to use “Allah”, we must ask the Pope to agree that ALL Bibles use “Allah”…and Christians must only use it in the Muslim way
Nothing stupid here. In fact perfectly logical.
1) Only Christians can have Jesus in their religion…because only Christians worship the “One True God”…and Jesus Christ is God’s Son…and is the same as God
2) So, all other religions cannot have Jesus Christ…because they don’t know the “One True God”…and the real Jesus Christ
3) If Muslims want to keep Jesus in the Quran…they must get a worldwide fatwa…that they are talking about the “Christian Jesus”…and must refer to Him in the Christian way in the Quran…that is, “Jesus Christ”
On 1 – It has been known of the Christian that way with the error therein
On 2 – Due to the error as in son of god and god the same, they are not sure which one is ie the others are confused. Hence wouldnt mind at all being disallowed.
On 3 – Muslim dont have “Jesus” in the Quran. So they dont have to keep what they dont have in the first place. Therefore the fatwa is of no purpose.
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Hi JMD.
I have a question, perhaps Apocryphalist or your good self could provide an answer?
Somewhere up there, Apocryphalist said to EWO: “There isn’t a SINGLE place there [the Quran] where Jesus Christ is mentioned as “Nabi Isa”. You have Isa son of Mary, you have Messiah son of Mary but never Nabi Isa.”
I haven’t read the Quran, so I don’t know much. But I remember hearing about “Nabi Isa” from my Muslim friends back in primary school. They told me that they were taught about “Nabi Isa” in Pendidikan Islam classes. And I remember distinctly that they said “Nabi Isa”.
As I understand it, “nabi” means “prophet”. So if Isa is not referred to as a “nabi” in the Quran, what does it mean?
Just asking for some clarification and added information. Apologies if I offended anyone.
Thanks.
JMD : Hi Michelle. It’s simple. Nabi is just a title. YOu do not mention it in the Quran individually. Allah never mentions ‘Nabi’ someone. But of course they are all nabi: Allah refers to ‘Anbiya’ – plural of nabi – collectively. That means they are all nabi.
The contention with EWO is that “Isa ibnu Maryam” or “Masih ibnu Maryam” exists but the actual wording of ‘Nabi Isa’ was never mentioned in Quran. Thank you.
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sister, U ask a very good question. i want to add something about quran says about jesus christ pbuh. first u dont read Quran so maybe U dont know. i suggest u read a translasion of Quran just to know better about islam.
u did refer as Apocryphalist said to EWO: “There isn’t a SINGLE place there [the Quran] where Jesus Christ is mentioned as “Nabi Isa”. You have Isa son of Mary, you have Messiah son of Mary but never Nabi Isa.”
well to answer ur question, u know what Nabi means?? its means a servant @ messenger of god. so if Quran says servent@ mesenger of god, than its mean nabi. i give u few recitation of Quran :
1.He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet [nabî]; (19:30) …(referring to Jesus as nabî)
2.”The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!” (Quran 5:75).
thanks for asking:) Salam
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For the first time I saw in a blog where a commenter stole the show and let me tell you, it ain’t easy when you are talking about JMD’s show. You guys are good!
And it should be a lesson to those who are up there on how to handle an attack; counter attack. Its quite tiring to be on the defensive all the time.
And I kept asking myself, why do we have to defend ourselves for things that are our rights in the first place? We have to keep on explaining and justifying what is our rights in the last five years. Got so much time ah? I would hate it when someone come to my home and start to tell me that he must have dim sum for dinner, his room is too small and wants the master bedroom too.
Just ban “the Herald” lah! Too scared or what? Buat baik berpada-pada… especially to those who buat jahat berkali-kali.
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eyes wide shut,
to christian god not ALLAH…i think they call him jesus. so why should God in Quran should be jesus…you deluded mate. Its the christian in borneo/indonesia which like to use Allah in their bible. please tell me since when christian in borneo use Allah? Please tell me when christianity reach borneo? and dont tell me the mothertongue of borneo people is melayu.
i never read the bible in arab so i cant really comment that the boble in arab also use ALLAH. but i do read bible in bahasa indonesia which use Allah. you see i ask my friend which is borneo christian…why use Allah? she just said memang tuhan Allah. but why you call him jesus…she confuses.
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hahahaha kalakau untol…memang le ramai kristian kat borneo ni guna bahasa malaysia. kawan teman kat sini pun byk yg kristian. tapi kalau guna jesus je tak boleh ke? ruhul kudus tak boleh ke? tuhan bapa tak boleh ke? kenapa mesti ALLAH?
teman pun konpius hehehe tapi kalau baca penerangan ahmad deedat tentang nama tuhan ALLAH dlam bibel memang mengkagumkan.
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Since when did the Roman Catholic Church represent ‘Malaysian Christians’?
Change the wordings of the petition please…
in any case, all these rants just prove how ignorant we are, and how ignorance is made foolishness when jaundiced by religious bias.
Tak yah cakap banyak lah, semua pun pikiak depa yang betui…
like you didn’t realize, people blog to be heard, not to listen.
“In the multitude of words, sin is not want…”
JMD : Yes, you guys can change the wordings of the petition to whatever you wish. It is provided as the base framework. It is incumbent upon who it may concern to proceed with the petition if they are serious. Thank you.
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What a lenghty discussion this is. I am a Sarawakian, a christain and a native of Sarawak. Our ancestors were headhunters once and had mostly believed in Animism. Then some fine days -way before Malaysia was born some Tuans came to Sarawak preaching christainity. God knows what the converted natives called God then. Since the natives couldn’t speak English the missionary priests opted to learn and speak the native languages instead – predominantly the Iban language. To see the Tuans speak Ibans for instance was quite amusing to the simple longhouse folks. Many missionary schools were set up in Sarawak whereby the children of Ibans, Lauts, Bidayuh, Melanaus, China, Tambi (mostly baieee) attended. The teachers at the mission schools (majority priests) would then require sutdents (irrespective of their race, religion or religionless – to pray a morning prayer in English or even in Iban – a christain way, with the sign of cross, etc. like : dalam nama apai, nama anak enggau roh kudus….
Notice that – where the heck that language “roh kudus” was coming from? It’s definitely not from the Iban, Bidayuh, Kelabit, etc.
We the christain natives have been hearing our Tuan whiteman priests preaching in Iban langauge who referred to God as “Allah Taala”…but mind you most of the natives did not know how to read and write, so they heard something like “Alah Tala”…but no issue for us. The point is whether the origin of this “Alah Tala” was from Saudi Arabia, Ireland, Russia, Sipadan, Timbuktu, or wherever, we don’t care? What we care is that we have been using it and refer to God.
But now after so many donkey years…if you like to count from 1800, well that’s quite a lot of years (although some Ibans then were still busy pursuing head hunting activities and tribal warfare) – but now, yes only now, after the formation of Malaysia, our brother Muslims in Malaysia, mainly the West Malaysians – Orang Malaya we called them in our local slang, AGAINST the native christains to use the word!
Sensitive or not, minority or majority or not, all these depend on which angle you are looking at it from. From our Dayak christain angle, we oppose such as a call, as we think it is unfair and discriminate is the minority bumiputra. Had this cropped up during the formation of Malaysia, Tun Jugah then would have said “NO”. So, is this now an issue the Herald is trying to depend. What’s wrong they depend? We from East Malaysia say now to our brother Malays, come on big brothers, please give us a chance!
JMD : Yes, where the heck the word ‘roh kudus’ came from? From Bahasa Malaysia right? Then why use the word ‘Allah’? Why not ‘Tuhan’? Bahasa Malaysia also what. I’m surprised you are still adhering to your former tuans – the Mat Sallehs. Now, your legitimate government are telling you to use the word ‘Tuhan’ instead. Cannot follow ke?
Thank you.
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It’s okay for them to write the word Allah in the bible only if the bible adopt the Alquran’s declaration that theres only one god and no other god, and that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is The Messenger of God . Please use the word of Allah if you are willing to change the Bible’s contents and remove all phrases not consistent with Phrases of the AlQuran. Fair? Not fair. Than , you are meerly being political, you are not sincere in adopting the word Allah.
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yup ,change it .the malays are always stupid,and will remain always stupid.
change it to suit their silly kampong mind,thanks
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Allah is a name that belongs to Him, and Him alone. It’s not a word that can be translated because it’s not a generic word. Allah is ‘god’, but Allah does not mean ‘god’. It does not belong to any particular language. It appears only in the Quran, but it’s not Arabic, because Allah is not an Arab. “La ila ha illallah”… there’s in there the Arabic word that means ‘god’ and the non-Arabic name ‘Allah’. Then you have “Allahuakbar”, “Subhanallah”, “Alhamdulillah”, “Astaghfirullah” etc which refers only to Him, by His name.
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to eyes wide open… the meaning of Abdullah is not the son of Allah. it is the servant of Allah. Abd means servant not son dude.
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JMD in house publication of the herald magazine is just 15000. The population of Malaysia is already 23 million. It is better we limit them to inhouse then to let them ask the court to decide because it might decide not in our favour. Kekadang we have to be bijaksana dalam implementasi. If we fan unreasonable anger we create uneasiness an UMNO will ost more votes. We have no monopoly on God neither on Allah, the muslims in Malaysia Allah is spoken as God by the Arab Jews and Chrsitian alike. The Malays tak boleh duduk bawah tempurung. If they want respect they first must respect others. To me limiting it to Herald only is more wise than totally banning it because it is ineffective especially with the advent of the internet where knowlege is it your finger tip. Sometime it is better to be wise than clever!!!!
A for Freedom fighters most of the civilians kill were Chinese and Malay Soldiers serving with the British. They were freddom fighters because they fought for the freedom of their idea of what constitute freedom albieight misguided, I ve read the book also please read the book by Rahid Maidin and Shamshiah Fakeh. I never say they were right neither did I say they were nice. Soem were cruel but it was in a nera before your time and mine thus what shape their mind is base on their perceptions and expereince. Please read the book the reluctant politician Tun Dr Ismail.
JMD : Wan Zaharizan, certainly it should be limited to The Herald. It has been that way. Ask yourself, what is so wrong to tell them to replace the word ‘Allah’ to ‘Tuhan’? Why was the matter been dragged to the courts? Perhaps The Herald can answer that. Please read all the comments above and below. As for your comments on the communist, I do hope you read other books such as the book from J J Raj and Yuen Yuet Leng (Nation Before Self). Only then you get the true picture. Reading only one side of the story can be quite misleading.
Plus, to say most of those that were killed by the Communists were soldiers are quite untrue. Many more civilians were killed too. To easily shrug it off as something that was committed in an era long time ago may not be appropriate because many of our relatives died in the hands of the communists.
Thank you.
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A couple of points …
The Pope does not represent all Christians. The 16th century Protestant Reformation was ignited by the rediscovery of the authentic interpretation of the source of the Christian Faith, i.e. Holy Scriptures. Protestants do not officially recognise the authority of the Pope anymore than the Eastern Orthodox, ecumenical endeavours notwithstanding. On the other hand, there many versions of Protestantism today. Modern evangelicals which constitute the vast majority of Protestants, including Malaysia, are not Protestants in the sense that Blessed Dr. Martin Luther, Blessed Dr. John Calvin, Blessed Martyr Archbishop Thomas Cranmer, Blessed Patriarch Cyril Lukaris, etc. were.
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, very God of very God did not only died on the Cross to redeem the elect sinners from original sin, but actual sin as well. Original sin is the sin which every single human being commits by being a member of the human race in Adam. Adam as the head of the human race fell into sin, by succumbing to the temptation to be divine – gods. Adam was put into the Garden to be human, to care for the world, and not to worry about his destiny. To do so is put self in control, to arrogate for oneself the right “to go UP to heaven”.
God the Son became Incarnate precisely to come DOWN to earth so that mankind can become truly HUMAN again. Jesus triumphed over sin and death. He was born under the Law to destroy the Law. Sinners who are made right with God the Father are no longer under the curse, threats and demands of the Law, but FREED precisely to do good works without worry about his/her destiny.
Therefore, the Christian do good works for the sake of the neighbour and the neighbour alone. As he/she is justified before the sight of God, receiving the unconditional, the gracious, the unmerited forgiveness of all sins, he/she is “turned back” to the world to do good works, to care for the world and to share in solidarity the sufferings, cause, etc. of his fellow human beings. He receives the world back as a gift. He sees the Law in a new light.
The Law is not a ladder to heaven, but to remind mankind to be truly human. The Law has two main functions:
1. To curb and restrain outward evil, and to regulate society;
2. To accuse a person of sin.
The way of salvation as redisovered by the 16th century Protestant Reformation is not top-down but bottom up. This is what the Incarnation, the Crucifixion and Resurrection is all about.
Salvation then is not about “accepting the message of the Gospel”. Salvation is Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of the elect. Who are the elect? The elect are those whom God has predestined from before the foundations of the world to be justified in His sight. Positively, God is absolutely sovereign; negatively, the person is totally depraved. These two basic premises form the pillar and ground of the Gospel – the Good News …….
Back to the issue: No restrictions can be placed on the USE of the term, “Allah” save the circulation of materials containing the term thereof. To do so is against the Constitution which preserves the balance between Islam as the official religion and the freedom of religion.
As for my view on whether the Allah of the Arabic and Malay-speaking Christians is the same God as the Allah of Quran, the answer is an obvious NO.
JMD : Aiyoh Mr Protestant. Jangan lah merajuk. You commented on my blog at 4.30pm and after waiting exhaustively about an hour, you lamented to Nuraina Samad that your comment were censored here at 5.30pm.
Tak malu ke? You’d think my only job is to immediately approve your comments right after you posted them? Do not flatter yourself okay. I have so many things to do. And I am not attached to my blog 24/7 🙂 Wait for your turn okay. Patience is a virtue. Also, mengadu sana sini amatlah tidak baik.
Okay, enough spanking. I believe another commentator (Libation Bearer) in Nuraina’s blog had chipped in to what you had said.
Note that, not even once in your comment about Christianity above you mentioned the word ‘Allah’. Is it an alien word to you? Anyway, I agree with your comment – Allah in Islam is not the ‘Allah’ being hijacked by The Herald. To do otherwise would be an affront to the Muslims’ sensitivities here. Like Libation Bearer had said, the correct term to refer Christian’s God is Yahweh. More appropriate would it not?
Thank you.
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Looks like it’s the Catholics who are using the name of ‘Christians in Malaysia’ to advocate for the right to use the word Allah. I am a Christian but the Pope doesn’t have any relevance to my faith so address the petition to him? I think there has to be a compromise here.
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“If a first-century evangelist can undergo circumcision to win converts, how far can a 21st-century missionary go? At lunch, Christian Dedrick takes a spoonful of his wife’s homemade broccoli soup and ponders the question aloud. “Should we call ourselves Muslims?” he asks. “The old meaning of the word is ‘one who submits.’ In Jordan, the missionaries had ‘Jesus mosques.’ They called themselves ‘Muslims of the Messiah.’ We wrestled with that. We wanted to call God ‘Allah’ so we could be on that relational level with Muslims.” ”
Read the full article at
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2002/05/stealth.html
JMD : Thank you for the link Harman.
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What a whole load of rubbish rocky
JMD : Another one liner that had escaped my spam box. No further arguments? No thank you.
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The word “Allah ” does not belong to Islam religion only.
Whole world knows ..it means “God” in Arabic.
Languages and words are copied freely and Malaysian government have copied so much for Bahasa Malaysia.
Languages and words…Malaysia have no business to complaint about…as we are copying wholesale to form Bahasa Malaysia.
Yet……the Christians are not actually copying anything from Islam text at all.
If Islam call God..Allah….so Allah is just a word…….like Almighty….Lord.
Why the fuss?
Just read how politicians twist and giving their reasons…cannot be used…focusing on Jesus as their excuse.
UMNO and PAS love to play Islamic religion in politics…..producing fanatics and hypocrites.
JMD : Excuse me Monsterball. To Muslims, the word ‘Allah’ is not a mere word. It is impossible to make you dive into the psyche of a Muslim regarding the sanctity of ‘Allah’. But I do hope you will make an attempt to understand. But even if you can’t. Then acceptance is also key to religious tolerance. Thank you.
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brother, before u say that u should know arabic. the word for god in arabic is Illah. its not Allah.
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What if the Hindus in Malaysia decide to feel outrage as to why Malys have “stole” and used so many Sanskrit words in Bahasa Melayu? Would not such a demand be vaild if Malays are to claim that the usage of Allah is both a cultural, linguistic and religous copyright? You can’t demand that the Christians release usage of the word unless you are prepared to do the same to the Hindus and the “stolen” words of Sanskrit that have been “unlawfully” been incorporated and use as Bahasa Malaysia.
Malays and espcially Malay Muslims can’t have it both ways. You can legitimately demand of others what you yourself fail to practise. This whole issue and the banning of Bibles in the Malay language has brough Malaysia to be counted among arpathied regimes, one that has misused the religous freedom and tolerance of the country. The leaders and community owe Malaysian Christian an unreserved apology and assurance that such anti-Christian bashing and attacks will be one bried with bloodlust regimes.
JMD : Thank you for the comment. If you want to discuss about lingual issues by suddenly include Sanskrit words, then you are sorely missing the point. Linguistic issues and religious issues are different thing altogether. You and The Herald are one confused lot of people. Thank you.
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MohdRosli,
Are you a Malay?
I’m an American. I’m warning you not to use my English words without my permission in this blog OK?
from American WASP
Oi WASP.
Stop bleedin claiming its your English, you tart!
from Blimey
Herr Blimey
Give back de Ole Saxon worden mein fren
from Muller
Herr Muller
also the Frankish ones. Curse those imbeciles Homey Pomeys
who doesnt know how to cook.
Gaston
Oi Sauerkrauts
you lost the ze wars.
MohdRosli
The Malays are my children too. Its their inheritance.
Pertiwi Sanskrit
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To MohdRosli,
Are you a Malay?
I’m an American. I’m warning you not to use my English words without my permission in this blog OK?
from American WASP
Oi WASP.
Stop bleedin claiming its your English, you tart!
from Blimey
To Herr Blimey
Give back ze Ole Saxon verds mein fren
from gaston
To sauerkrauts
you lost the wars!
from Blimey
To MohdRosli
The Malays inherits the sanskrit
from Pertiwi Sanskrit
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to all the stupid commentators who are blind and narrowminded..
Just answer this question..proof that “Allah” belong to muslim only..
If YOU can proof this,then we can talk facts,if not please keep your big mouth shut and hide your brains inside your ass.
JMD : Another confused and hateful commentator. Allah belongs to Muslims indeed. Unless all other religions in the world are professing to the belief of the Muslims and prostrating themselves to Allah SWT. Are you now? Please read the comments and their respective replies above before you even begin to compose what you are writing. Thank you.
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Read the 2 Kalimah Shahaada. Dont know how to read? Then dont ask. You insignificant insignificant.
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Jean,
What are you insinuating at when you say, “I would hate it when someone come to my home and start to tell me that he must have dim sum for dinner, his room is too small and wants the master bedroom too.?”
So, you are the Tuan rumah eh! and have the rights to do what you wish? Are you insinuating that we are pendatangs and wants us to go back to China or India, like you people like you used to tell the Chinese and the Indians! Where do you want me to go “balik kampung” to? Please don’t use your Ketuanan Melayu mentality on me. How can you be my Tuan? What gives you the right to be our Tuan? Tolol punya orang!
Sorry to upset you my friend, Malaysia is my only country and have been the country of my forefathers and ancestors, being a native of Borneo. There’s no Kadazan anywhere else in the world. However, I wouldn’t want to lower myself to your level by asking you or your ministers to balik Yemen or Sumatra!
This is my country and please don’t interfere with how we practice our religion. Would you like me to interfere with yours since my tax money is used for yours? I wouldn’t want to. I will call my God by whatever name I wish to, be it Allah, Tuhan, Tuhan Allah or Kinoringan. Nobody, man (including the two fascists ministers), government or court have the right to tell us otherwise. You’re not happy, then by all means sent your fascist gestapo to arrest and jail me!
Salam,
Dr. AT
JMD : I do not have to defend Jean as she is more than capable to defend what she had written. However, I just would like to highlight one point here – your provocation when someone had rattled your comfort zone.
Certainly you are not the only one who is paying tax here in Malaysia. As if their tax money is not being used for your religion. It takes two to tango mate. Some of the comments here are inflammatory to the Malays too.
Like I said before, it is baffling when the minority do not want to conform with the majority. I believe when the minority is trying to exert undue influence over the majority, anarchy will bear its ugly head. Believe me, the rights of the minority had always been taken cared of by the government. What’s the fuss? Oh I see.. its the lingual issue again.. *sigh*
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Tuan,
Segala hormat ke atas Tuan.
Tuan ada hak di atas ruang yang Tuan duduk dan hanya terbatas dengan hak ruang kepunyaan milik orang lain. Tuan Melayu hanya ingin menjaga ruang nya supaya kainkain basahan milik orang lain tidak becampur aduk dengan milik warisan mereka. Jikalau Tuan asli jati maka Tuan tidak ada sebab untuk memikir yang Tuan kena pulang ke Cina atau India.
Saya pun ada saudara mara asal Banjar dan Samarinda di Borneo. Saya juga tahu yang kaum Kadazan juga datang dari Taiwan dan budaya asli di Taiwan pun telah di lenyap oleh KMT.
Saya faham akan semangat Tuan. Hanya harap dapat fahamkan semangat orang Melayu yang termasuk Banjar, Patani, Champa, Senoi, Jakun, Bera, Org Laut, Macobar, Sulu, Riau, Pahang, Kelantan dll yang warisannya dipersendakan.
Kerajaan tidak mengamal fascism hanya cuba mencegah sebarang bentuk subversive oleh agen agen asing yg bawa fahaman bolshevik crypto christian neocolonist anarchism.
Kerajaan mengamalkan sistem demokrasi berparlimen dibahwah naungan Duli YMM Yg DiPertuan Agung.
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Dear JMD and readers,
EWO, from my understanding is, your argument is based on Bahasa…
Maka, dengan ini ada beberapa soalan yang ingin saya tanyakan.
1) Secara asasnya, permulaan seorang Muslim dan Kristian adalah berbeza. Sila beritahu sekalian alam, bagaimanakah seseorang itu menjadi Kristian, kerana seorang Muslim mengaku dianya seorang Muslim dengan mengucap dua kalimah syahadah, dan di dalam dua kalimah syahadah itu secara terang mengaku Allah itu Tuhan kami, dan Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. itu pesuruhNya. “Allah” itu adalah kata nama khas untuk Allah. Bagaimanakah pula dengan Kristian?
2) Jika untuk tujuan penyatuan rakyat Malaysia dan perkataan Tuhan itu menjadi mediumnya, maka ianya bukan sahaja harus sekadar Islam dan Kristian, tetapi juga Hindu, Buddha dan apa jua agama di Malaysia ini. Persoalannya, apakah Hindu dan Buddha sanggup menggunakan “Allah”? Jika mereka tidak, apakah mereka ini tidak mahu Malaysia yang bersatu?
3) Jika ianya semata bahasa, maka saya ingin bertanyakan, jika mana-mana agama menggunakan Trinity, Jesus dsb sebagai nama tuhan mereka, tetapi mereka bukan mengaku Kristian, apakah umat Kristian rela ianya digunakan? Sebagaimana hujah di blog saya, apa kata jika golongan agama The Force menamakan Tuhan mereka “Jedi Master Jesus Christ”. Apakah umat Kristian rela dan tiada bantahan?
Cuma tiga soalan, yang membezakan “hanya bahasa” dan erti bahasa dari sudut agama.
Wallahualam…
JMD : Thank you for the comment Ondastreet. Your article is quite interesting too.
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This person named “Eyes Wide Open” but it seems that his heart is tightly closed.
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As simple as it is “do you christians agree with me that ALLAH is THE TRUE AND ONLY GOD?? Because to us MUSLIM since the existence of ISLAM ALLAH is OUR GOD!! Recited in Al-QURAN from OUR BELOVED PROPHET MUHAMMAD salallahalaihiwasalam.. ALLAH to us MUSLIM is ONE AND ONLY GOD.. but for you,you believe in TRINITY so using ALLAH actually makes you infidel as you approve ALLAH is SINGULAR not TRINITY.
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Apahallah Herald tu keras kepala sangat!. Dah mahkamah suruh tangguhkan dulu penggunaan nama Allah itu, tangguhlah.
Tak ada toleransi langsungkah? sehingga tidak lagi mematuhi undang-undang sesebuah negara? Saja kot nak wujudkan perselisihan? Suka saya menasihatkan tunggulah dulu sehingga selesai perbicaraan itu nanti ya.
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JMD : THIS IS A COMMENT BY A COMMENTATOR WHICH I HAD ACCIDENTALLY DELETED (ter click the wrong button lah). THOUSAND APOLOGIES.
___________________________________________________
By Dr At (3.47pm 3rd February 2009)
The use of the word “ALLAH” by the Christians is a non-issue, made into an ISSUE by some UMNO fascists in the Malaysian cabinet, who have been behaving akin to the Big schoolyard Bullies.
For the information of the uninformed, the Bahasa Malaysia church services (Catholics, Anglicans, Sidang Injil Borneo, Evangilical etc.) in East Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak, have been conducting their worships using the Al Kitab ever since I can remember. The word “Allah” is part and parcel of the services, hymns and their publications. So, why the authorities wants to banned it? Have they got the right to do so? Isn’t this persecution of the Christians? WHY? Now, since the word “Allah” is used in the Al Kitab or Injil, will the Malay bible be banned after this too? How about church services in Bahasa Malaysia?
The use of the BM word “kitab”, “Injil”, “Amin”, “Malaikat”, “Nabi”, names of the nabi-nabi – Isa, Yusuf, Musa, Ibrahim etc.? Will the Iban bible, which uses the word “Tuhan Allah” be banned too? Where will this stop?
Why do you want to interfere in our religion? Why are you persecuting us? Is it okay if we interfere with yours?
We are not questioning the position of Islam as the official religion under the Federal Constitution (please don’t twist the issue at hand). We just want to be left alone and to continue to have the right to call our God in Bahasa Malaysia by any name we wish to call HIM. Is this too much to ask for? I wish also to remind those who are “buta sejarah” to read deeper into the real Malaysian history. No, not the UMNO version. I wish to bring to you’re attention an agreement given to Sabahan (and sarawakians too), during the formation of the Federation of Malaysia, known as the 20 points Agreement, which is not only an agreement written on paper, but also carved on stone! Go see the “Batu Sumpah” in Keningau.
This is the real Social Contract. Point 1, of the 20 Points, which is on Religion reads: “While there was no objection to Islam being the national religion of Malaysia there should be no State religion in North Borneo, and the provisions relating to Islam in the present Constitution of Malaya should not apply to North Borneo”.
Salam damai,
Dr.AT
JMD : Where do get the idea that this issue is being made an issue by ‘Umno Fascists’? Mind you, it was The Herald who had dragged this matter into court and into the realm of public debate.
In fact, this is not a matter where only Umno is involved. It concerns everyone. Even people outside Umno are discussing about it:
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y=2009&dt=0202&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Muka_Hadapan&pg=mh_03.htm
No it is not okay to interfere in each other’s religion. Like the case of the Fatwa on Yoga, one wonders why were the non Muslims harassing the Muslims over a ruling concerning only the Muslims exclusively.
Nice try on the 20-point agreement before the formation of Malaysia in 1963. An agreement made before the inclusion of Sabah into Malaysia. You claim this is real history? People will throw in a lot of bull just to defend their flimsy argument. Let me tell you this: Is that 20-point agreement legitimate? Let us see now.
According to the Constitution of Malaysia, Article 4 states that:
“This Constitution is the supreme law of the Federation and any law passed after Merdeka Day which is inconsistent with this Constitution shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void.”
That 20-point agreement even used the revealing word – Constitution of Malaya. Are we still living in a country called Malaya? I do not think so. Now, what are the laws inconsistent to the present Constitution of Malaysia? I suppose it is this 20-point agreement since it is not consistent with Article 3 and a couple more Articles in the Constitution.
So, it is indeed not good to be ‘buta sejarah’. But one have to be ‘celik Perlembagaan’ too. Peace.
Thank you.
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Actually Jebat, I know a couple of Christian Bumis from East Malaysia (more than 2 in 5 Sarawakian is Christian. 60% of Christians in Malaysia are Bumis) and they’ve been using the word ‘Allah’/’Tuhan Allah’. Their sermons & literature (which include the Malay-version of ‘The Herald’ for Catholics) are conducted in BM, which is the language they use.
More can be heard here in the comments from some E.M. Christians…
http://www.thenutgraph.com/article-1835.html#comments
Ironically, this whole storm over a word is less of people going into someone’s house & demanding “dim-sum” and the master room. Its more like somebody going across the pond and ordering the village over there stop using a word similar to the same word they use for God, even though the villagers have been doing that since before the 60s.
And it has exposed how little some people know, & how arrogant we Westies can be to Easties.
JMD : Believe me I know what is going on in East Malaysia. The arrogant people are actually the ones in West Malaysia who tried to support The Herald without even thinking the larger impact on the fellow Muslims there in Sabah.
If you can quote a couple of East Malaysian Christians from an article like the above, many people can also give examples, counter arguments on why The Herald should not use Allah in their publication and also data on how the Muslims there are being proselytised. Thank you.
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@ tuah always lives
Quote: yup ,change it .the malays are always stupid,and will remain always stupid.
change it to suit their silly kampong mind,thanks
Obviously you have no useful point to bring up but just to rile the Malays. Please continue to do so, up to the point where we the Malays would have had enough and decisively get rid of the likes of you. You may want to come out to the streets with a huge broom replica as a symbolic to “halau” us back to kampongs. Just do it. You are so eager to challenge us, you are so eager to spark another 13th May; we will not disappoint you!
Thanks JMD for exposing another racist bigot.
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ALLAH means THE GOD, THE ONE and ONLY GOD
ABDULLAH means SERVANT OF THE GOD, not son of God
Malaysian Christians are not arab, ALLAH is Arabic., so why you want to use the word? But really, no big deal. JESUS is a Prophet in Islam (Peace be upon him). It is stated in the Quran. Why dont you study the Quran? We embrace Jesus, we love him as we believe in him, and we Muslim are preparing for his return to earth, to finally lead mankind towards peace and prosperity. He will return as a Muslim, as he was, of course.
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salam JMD,
tak habis baca lagi semua comment, tapi setelah terbaca comment Eyes Wide Open, terpanggil untuk memberi sepatah dua kata. Pertama sekali, Allah adalah nama Tuhan… tak jadi. kena cakap english gak.
First of all, Allah is God’s NAME. As such as Robert (notice here that I’m using Robert so that you would not be confused by yet another Arab name) is a human’s NAME. In Islam, God has more than 1 name. 99 names (zat) to be exact. All of it referring to His Mighty qualities. And Allah is the name that sums them all up (JMD, please edit if you feel this is wrong). To translate God to Allah in Bahasa Malaysia is wrong. Just as wrong as translating ‘a human’ to “seorang robert” in Bahasa Malaysia. Has it been said in the bible that God’s Name is Allah? I don’t think so.
This is not about language monopolization. This is about creating confusion amongst the less educated people in Malaysia. This is about using an arab word, manipulate it and use it as one saw fit for one’s own agenda. This is about trying to fit in an arab word when the usage Bahasa Malaysia can achieve the same result. Why (other than to cause confusion) should one translate God as Allah? Tuhan is more appropriate. Use Bahasa Malaysia translation. Don’t use arabic translations without any knowledge. As a matter of fact, in Arabic, GOD is ILAH, GODS is ILAHA (as in “la ilaha il allah” – There is no God but Allah).
And also, Nabi Isa is NOT Jesus Christ. In your context, Jesus Christ is the son of God. In our context, Nabi Isa was a messenger to the people of Nazareth (Nasrani- again, JMD please edit if wrong). Nabi Isa is Jesus the Messenger, not Jesus Christ son of God.
Assalamualaikum means “peace be upon you”. Yes, other people of other religion can use assalamualaikum as a way to start your day. But why the heck would you want to use an arabic sentence when you can’t even say Salam Sejahtera properly?
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Assalamualaikum and hello to all,
This comment may be a bit too late but ive got to correct someone on his comment.
“Is not Muhammad’s (s.a.w.) full name Muhammad ibn Abdullah? His FATHER was named “Son of ALLAH” – long before Muhammad founded Islam!” by Eyes Wide Open.
The correction is ‘Abdullah’ does not mean Son of Allah. What it really means is :-
Abdul = Servant
Illah = God (allah)
Abdullah really means servant of allah. If you translate it in Bahasa it would say Hamba Allah. So if you put 1 and 2 together Muhammad Abdullah. It would really mean ” Muhammad servant of allah”
And i would like to take this opportunity to remind my brothers and sister in islam that ” Allah is not, and never will be part of his creation”
I really hope JMD would hightlight this error correction.
Assalamualaikum,
*logic can not exist without faith*
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JMD dan sekalian,
Ingin saya menjelaskan sesuatu yang telah menjadikan perbincangan di forum ini semakin keruh.
Jika anda semua baca posting saya dengan teliti, hujah saya yang terdahulu adalah berlandaskan fahaman bahasa dalam isu kegunaan nama “Allah”. Tetapi apabila saya membaca komen oleh river, didapati beliau telah menyatakan situasi ini dalam konteks social/agama di Malaysia dengan lebih jitu, iaitu:
“It is not because the word ‘Allah’ belongs to the Muslims, it is because the law in this country protects Muslims from apostasy.”
Jadi, isunya bukan mengenai bahasa, tetapi sensitiviti agama dalam penggunaan nama “Allah”. Sejak itu, saya tidak lagi berhujah berlandaskan fahaman bahasa. Sebaiknya saya mencuba menerangkan mengenai isu-isu yang lebih mendalam yang terlibat dalam kontroversi ini.
Akan tetapi, ramai komenter yang berikutan telah berbalik kepada isu penggunaan bahasa, terutamanya dengan hujah yang menyatakan bahawa jika isu ini hanya isu bahasa bagi penganut Kristian, baik guna perkataan Tuhan sahaja. Dan juga sebagainya yang lebih-kurang.
Jika komenter di sini enggan meneliti hujah seseorang dan memberi respon tanpa memahami apa yang telah dinyatakan, amat susah untuk mengadakan perbincangan yang bermanafaat.
Tujuan saya ke sini berbincang adalah untuk cuba mewujudkan kesefahaman. Saya tidak menolak Islam sebagai agama rasmi Malaysia. Ini adalah kenyataan di Malaysia dan tidak dipertikaikan.
Isu sebenar yang ingin saya ketengahkan adalah – jika hari ini melarang segelintir penganut Kristian dari menggunakan nama “Allah” yang memang sudah menjadi kebiasaan bagi mereka, apakah hari esok akan menghalang mereka dari menggunakan perkataan “Tuhan” kerana kepercayaan Muslim adalah “tiada Tuhan melainkan Allah”?
Seterusnya, mungkinkah di masa depan Malaysia akan menjadi seperti China, dimana kesemua agama akan ditadbir oleh kerajaan pusat? Ataupun, agama lain tidak dibenarkan lagi kerana Malaysia adalah negara Islam, “tiada Tuhan melainkan Allah”, maka jika ingin menyembah Tuhan, hanya boleh menyembah Tuhan yang satu, iaitu Allah?
Itu isu yang pertama.
Isu yang kedua:
Jika di negeri-negeri Arab, di mana asalnya agama Islam, penganut-penganut agama Islam, Yahudi dan Kristian boleh bebas menggunakan nama “Allah” tanpa berasakan yang mereka akan tersesat jalan dari agama masing-masing, kenapa pula Muslim di Malaysia tidak begitu?
Mungkinkah jalan penyelesaian yang lebih baik ialah untuk meningkatkan nilai dan kualiti ajaran agama supaya anak-anak Islam tidak akan tersesat?
Isu yang ketiga:
Malaysia adalah negara demokrasi moden, di mana kebebasan dan hak kesemua rakyatnya patut dibela. Tetapi dari berbagai posting di sini, boleh dikatakan intisarinya ialah apa yang diingini oleh golongan Muslim yang sefikiran di sini adalah kawalan ketat kerajaan ke atas mana-mana unsur, orang, kaum, agama dan sebagainya yang dirasakan berkemungkinan boleh mengganggu ketenteraman fikiran kaum majoriti di Malaysia.
Apa yang disarankan itu adalah dikenali sebagai Fascisme. Seperti dihuraikan di Wikipedia:
“Fascists aim to create a single-party state in which the government is led by a dictator who seeks unity by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation or a race. Fascist governments permanently forbid and suppress all criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.”
Jika kerajaan diminta menjunjung kuasa sebegini, suatu hari nanti mungkin diri sendiri yang akan menjadi penerima akibatnya. Bacalah “Animal Farm” oleh George Orwell untuk memahami bagaimana ini boleh berlaku tanpa kita mengetahuinya.
Jadi sekalian, saya bukannya menyokong penggunaan nama “Allah” oleh Kristian, sebab saya sendiri amat kurang menggunanya dan tidak akan biasa menggunanya. Jika betul berlaku bahawa penganut Kristian dilarang menggunakan nama “Allah”, saya tidak akan terasa rugi atau sayang. Saya memang lebih suka menggunakan perkataan Tuhan.
Tetapi jika betul berlaku bahawa penganut Kristian dilarang menggunakan nama “Allah”, saya akan berasa gerun yang senario-senario dalam isu pertama dan ketiga yang dijelaskan sebelum ini akan menjadi semakin nyata di Malaysia.
Sebab itulah saya nyatakan berkali-kali. Jalan penyelesaiannya bukan untuk memberi kuasa kepada kerajaan untuk mewujudkan lebih mekanisme kawalan, tetapi untuk rakyat jelata mengadakan perbincangan terbuka untuk mencapai kesefahaman, demi membina masyarakat majmuk yang bersepadu, berlandaskan rasa hormat dan kepercayaan diantara semua kaum di Malaysia.
Sekian.
Wassalamualaikum.
JMD : Isu pertama. Jangan risau Eyes Wide Open. Jika suatu masa akan datang kerajaan Malaysia menghalang penduduk bukan Islam menggunakan perkataan ‘Tuhan’ di dalam upacara keagamaan mereka, saya orang yang pertama akan membantah.
Isu kedua. Memang itu penyelesaian yang baik. Tetapi dalam masa yang sama, kita tidak usah menidakkan bahawa terdapat usaha dari sesetengah pihak yang ingin menjalankan proses Kristianisasi di kalangan kaum Melayu Islam di Sabah. Melayu di sini termasuk kaum kaum tempatan di sana (sila lihat hujah saya di komentar Sam di bawah). Mana mungkin proses meningkatkan pengetahuan agama Islam dapat berjalan dengan baik jika dalam waktu yang sama terdapat golongan yang cuba menggagalkan usaha tersebut.
Isu ketiga. Saranan saudara bahawa segala komen komen di sini beraliran Fascisme tidak masuk akal kerana yang menjadi isu di sini adalah sensitiviti umat Islam. Umat Islam bukanlah kerajaan. Kerajaan (Home Ministry) menjalankan tugas setelah mendapat aduan dari orang ramai. Bukannya soal pihak majoriti ingin menunjukkan kuasa ke atas golongan minoriti.
Terima kasih.
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JebatMustParai wrote:
“Like I said before, it is baffling when the minority do not want to conform with the majority. I believe when the minority is trying to exert undue influence over the majority, anarchy will bear its ugly head. Believe me, the rights of the minority had always been taken cared of by the government. What’s the fuss? Oh I see.. its the lingual issue again.. *sigh*”
Sorry that I changed your nickname but I fine some humor in it; parai = die (in my language).
I quote you here as I am baffled by your insistence on this majority and minority stuff. Your statement about minority (bumiputras) are being taken care of…hello friend, you are so ignorant. But never mind that.
I would like to ask you, what have the majority and minority got to do with religion? Why is there such a stubborness to acknowledge the fact that the use of the word Allah as God in Malay or Iban bibles had been there for many hundred years.
Now that we have Malaysia for only 50 years, you being the majority seem to think that it is your deemed right to claim whatever else that suit your interest. On the other hand, we being the minority then are expected to oblige and agree with you. Now please look at the mirror to see what you are doing. Have you heard of the word “bully” and “injustice” before?
May I remind you that your Sultans did not invade and conquere Sarawak and Sabah. Malaysia was formed based on agreements and conditions of participating states. The rights of Sabahans and Sarawakians and in fact all Malaysians should be respected.
JMD : Correct. Rights of all Malaysians must be respected. We had offered a compromise. Take it. Are you not familiar with the ‘give and take’ concept.
Yup. You are correct when Malaysian Sultans did not conquer Sabah and Sarawak. In fact, other Sultans had conquered it before. Sabah was under the Sulu Sultanate while Sarawak was under the Brunei sultanate. Both belonged to Muslim sultanates. If not because of the British intervention, both Sabah and Sarawak would have been a Muslim country like Brunei right now.
Thank you.
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Salam JMD,
Sesak nafas saya membaca semua komen2 pro ‘Allah in bible’.. I think u have done the damnedest best in presenting ur points and countering their claims. Anyone with an open mind would have agreed that thru ur arguments ‘ yeah.. i guess the Malays have a point ‘. Doesn’t mean they have to agree and submit to ur arguments but at least realise what is the main issue from our point. IF they are open minded.
Very sensitive issue this religion thing, could escalate into something more ugly than ur normal diet of racial debate. suddenly we have non muslims trying to be an expert in Islam, muslims preaching christianity to christians and worst, atheist being religious !
Macam laki bini gaduh sebab jealous, they will go on and on and on, ungkit habis semua benda2 kecil, tapi masih belum damai sebab masing2 mengelak menyatakan isu sebenar. EGO !
My advice to all – lets all go to DemiNegara now, a fresh no holds barred party is about to start soon over there. I LOVE MALAYSIA !
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Dear Malaysians,
I am a Sabahan, and I am a Christian. For those of you that don’t know, there are two sects of Christian – The Roman Catholic and the Protestants. I am a Christian, of a protestant sect.
Some of my points:
– Christian missionaries from the west came to our land in the early 1800s.
– We did not understand English back then. So missionaries translated everything from the Bible into a language we are rather familiar with – the Bahasa Melayu. Please note that I mention ‘rather’ there, this is because in Sabah there are many types of aboriginal languages. And the most spoken language is the Bahasa Melayu, or what we Sabahans term it “cakap Sabah”.
– Allah is another word for God. Christian, Islam and Jews originate from the Middle-east, where language was the same. The term Allah is a universal and unilateral translation for “God”. God the almighty, Allah the almighty, same thing. Tuhan yang maha kuasa. Allah yang maha kuasa. As written in our Bahasa Melayu Bible.
My dear friends:
– Why don’t Christians use “Tuhan” instead of “Allah” you may ask? I’ll answer that with this: It means the same thing, and why wouldn’t you use “Allah” instead of “God”? Indeed, it means and refers to the same thing.
For those who supports the word Allah to be removed from the Christian teachings:
– We Christians are the minorities in this Country. But not in Sabah. In Sabah, we are the majority. Same thing in Sarawak as well. By telling us not to use the name that we have used to call god for a really long time, is like taking away our religion. So my questions back to you, my friend, would be this:
1. Is your faith so low that if Christians continue on using the same name for our god (Allah), you would be converted?
2. We are Malaysians and there are rules about spreading our religion. We cannot preach to Muslims in this country. But Muslims can do so to other religion. Do you think this is fair?
3. We do not intend to convert anyone using the word Allah in our translated Bible. It is the person’s personal choice of a person to choose a new religion. There is no force here. No duri dalam daging, no ultimate or ulterior motive.
4. Can’t we just live in harmony, side by side without having to worry who takes over what? If you think we are destroying your faith by using the same name for your god with ours, then is your faith really that low?
Let me tell you one thing, my dear Malayu friends who opposes the word Allah to be used by Christians.
– We have a better social integration between Muslims and Non-Muslims in Sabah & Sarawak, then you people in Semenanjung.
– We have bigger mindset, and we are very accepting people. Many wedding ceremonies have two kind of meals – The haram and the halal meals. We take into account our Muslim friends here in our heart.
– We Sabahans and Sarawakians are proud of what we are. We know we are the minorities in Malaysia, but we know at least between the two bumiputeras (Melayu and us), we are the hardworking one.
– Your Malay ideology has poisoned our younger generation’s mindset. Some Kadazans, Suluks, Bajaus, Bruneians, Kedayans and even Sinos that converted into Islam, or is a Muslim, think they are “Malay”, while they aren’t. You like to call Muslims in Malaysia as Melayu. You even coined a term “Masuk Melayu”. This is what our younger generations have learned, and is currently living. And this is what we are living with. But we will educate our children and our neighbors through traditional means – By correcting their mindset.
We are the minority, but we prosper in our land, because we are the real bumiputeras. Try to live with us, and you’ll see how great Sabahans and Sarawakians are.
JMD : Hi Sam. How are you? Are you sure you’re from Sabah? I lived in Sabah for nearly 5 years back in the 80’s. The biggest shopping complex in Kota Kinabalu at that time was a small mart called Kojasa. The sabah museum on top of the hill was not even built yet when I was there.
Now what’s this got to do with Malay idealogy? Your ramblings on the bumiputra Sabahans are gravely wrong. Because, if you were really from Sabah, you would know that the Bajaus, Kedayan and Bruneians are all Muslims. In fact, they are all a subset of greater rumpun Melayu. The Bajau (mostly in Kota Belud) embraced Islam during the Sulu Sultanate (well most Bajau orginated from Kepulauan Johor Riau anyway – formerly known as Orang Laut). Orang Kedayan also are Muslims from the greater rumpun Melayu. Mostly from the Beaufort and Papar areas (I had fond memories eating at Camp Lok Kawi). Even Orang Suluk are Muslims. That’s why when you said – “Suluks, Bajaus, Bruneians, Kedayans that converted into Islam, or is a Muslim, think they are ‘Malay’, while they aren’t” are just ramblings from a delusional minds. Why would they be converted into Islam when they are predominantly Muslims since long time ago.
The Bruneians also are mostly Muslims. What do you mean when the current Muslim government are actively converting and poisoning the minds of the Bajaus, bruneians and kedayans to become Muslims? They are Muslims before Malaysia took shape! Please do not be mixed up between Umno and Melayu ya. Your malicious propaganda will not work here.
In Sabah, the local people who are predominantly non Muslims are probably the Kadazandusun and Orang Murut.
Hence, your effort to educate Muslims by saying Allah is the universal word for God is widely misplaced. It is this very own gross indecency of trying to teach the Muslims on what they should believe that makes this issue a pertinent one.
This is why I am suspicious of your comments. Do not lie okay. You are inept in distinguishing who are the Malays here in Malaysia because your knowledge on what constitute a Malay is limited to Melayu Umno only. It shows that instead of preaching us on how to live together and learn more about the bumiputra Sabahans, it is you who actually need further education and interaction. Did you not go to national school? 🙂
Therefore, all your other arguments become less credible because of this one purported lie. Please do not try to teach the Muslims on the ‘Allah’ concept. Because you may not grasp it. Therefore, I implore you not to degrade the God’s name of your Muslim brethrens in Sabah.
You had simply said – ‘We did not understand English back then. So missionaries translated everything from the Bible into a language we are rather familiar with – the Bahasa Melayu’. Nah, now the Bahasa Melayu has another word for you – Tuhan. Since Allah is Arabic – a language you are unfamiliar with (just like English), please use the more familiar word of Tuhan generously. No harm in that.
And to generalise that all the bumis in Sabah are more hardworking than the Malays? Please do not do that. All this oneupmanship had turned your comment into a self righteous rant.
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brother sam, i dont mean to have argument with u. but u talking about Allah as god so i have a right also to speak about it. am i right?? i do agree with u that sabahan is hardworking. as malaysian citizen i love all races in malaysia. & i hate when people want to break our unity &harmony. dont U??
back to ur topic, 1st of all when we want to use some word we must understand what that word means. so to say god is Allah & allah is god we must know what its mean. if we dont know what its mean than it would be useless. am i right?? so what god really means??
in oxford dictionary it says:
God
• noun 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and supreme ruler of the universe. 2 (god) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature and human fortunes. 3 (god) a greatly admired or influential person. 4 (the gods) informal the gallery in a theatre.
so god have 4 meaning right??
which 1 that fall into this 4 category is god. so if i am saying a greatly admired or influential person is god i am right??? that correct?? so if im saying anwar is god would u agree with me?? of course not coz ur cristian. u believe in trinity. add anwar in the picture it will be 4 doesn’t it??
so there is so many meaning of god. same if i want to use jesus pbuh as god. if im saying jesus is informal the gallery in a theatre. would u agree with me?? it also mean god.
now i would like to give u a definition of Allah. what the meaning of Allah
it should also be noted that the Arabic word “Allah” contains a deep religious message due to its root meaning and origin. This is because it stems from the Arabic verb ta’allaha (or alaha), which means “to be worshipped”. Thus in Arabic, the word “Allah” means “The One who deserves all worship”.Additionally, the word “Allah” cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God.
so if use word Allah as change a word of god its not entirely correct. same as we use jesus pbuh as god with informal the gallery in a theatre. it would be incorrect.
brother sam, in islam the definition of Allah is been given clearly on Quran. in Surah 112 – Al Ikhlas
112:1 Say: He is God, the One and Only;
112:2 God, the Eternal, Absolute;
112:3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
112:4 And there is none like unto Him.
we muslim got no problem if u want to use word Allah in ur bibles if u follow this 4 criteria. salam
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JMD Wrote: “Yup. You are correct when Malaysian Sultans did not conquer Sabah and Sarawak. In fact, other Sultans had conquered it before. Sabah was under the Sulu Sultanate while Sarawak was under the Brunei sultanate. Both belonged to Muslim sultanates. If not because of the British intervention, both Sabah and Sarawak would have been a Muslim country like Brunei right now.”
1) I don’t know about Sabah, but for Sarawak the history was that Sarawak couldn’t be ruled by Brunei Sultan. Prior to the arrival of James Brooke (not British Government per se), only part of Sarawak was ruled by Brunei. However, Brunei Sultan was beaten and afraid of Headhunters that he sought help from James Brookes who had cannons and guns. James Brooke tried but only managed to control certain parts of Sarawak, again afraid of the Headhunters.
2) Hey friend – have you been to Brunei or Sarawak?
3) Brunei is doing very well, ok.
4) If Sarawak didn’t FORM Malaysia, it would be better off than it is now!
5) “give and take” – what have you given? You have mostly taken! how conveniently said, a bully is a bully, twist it whichever way you want.
JMD : Yes, I stand by my comment. It was because of the intervention of the British, Brunei lost parts of Sarawak. Your conjecture that Sarawak would be better off if it did not join Malaysia is purely an assumption based on emotions. Other people could have said that it could also be better off had it still be in the hands of Brunei. Based on the Constitution, what was mostly taken from the minority? By the way, would you like to write and sign that petition? Read this article again.
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Dear readers,
I have expounded the issue of Allah from the angle of Linguistics and Transliterations in RockyBru. I hope I am clear enough there.
From all the comments here and elsewhere one can gather that the malay muslims (and yes: they DO form the majority in this country) will not be taking things sitting down when what they perceive as a threat to the purity and sanctity of their religion is brewing. So what does one do when an irresistible force meets an immovable object? Except that one is in the minority and the other in the majority.
Yes, “Fear” and “Being Threatened” is the allegation some crusade heroes would like to label on the local malay muslims whenever they make these kinds of provocations. These are just labels and you can use labels in any form you like. The crux of the matter is they love the purity of the teachings of their religion. Any attempt to stepover and stain this purity, well they have also been taught on how to handle and react to it. One cannot fathom as to how far one can go being motivated by Love.
I have also touched a sambal-bit about Christian heads other than the catholic Benedict XVI there. It is not that we do not have knowledge in these things , but to expound the subject to its fullest would require more than this amount of space and time.
Thank You
JMD : Thank you Apocryphalist for chipping in again
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By submitting this petition, are the christians in Malaysia (or some of them) Is the only christian in the world who interpret or understand the word Deity mentioned in the bible refer to Allah. By submitting the same petition to the Pope Benedict XVI, the Holy See, it may also suggest that the Holy See’s interpretation and understanding of the word differs with the christian in Malaysia.
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Thats the problem with the Cristian people, they change their bible’s content as their wishes. So do they think their bible as pure as the original given to Jesus Al Masih. Anyway the Cristian will keep on doing what they had been doing for the past 2000 years. Keep on changing their bible. Beyond help.
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Jebat, jangan kurang ajar. Kita kan tau your intention to compose that letter to the Pope was done in a half-mocking manner. And don’t try to wiggle your way around. It’s only when you discovered to your horror that my comments was posted over at Nuraina’s that only then did you posted mine. Now, you or the government have no right at all to ban the use of Allah on Malay-speaking Christians. Don’t interfere in other people’s religion. How they conduct their worship and how they address God is their business, not yours. This is a lesson in freedom of religion. I am not going to hammer your head, although you deserve one. But it is worth understanding that EXISTING religious practice with long-standing claim to historical precedent is not the concern of the government.
If confusion exists, then it is YOUR problem. Not ours. Understand this, and this will go a long way towards resolving religious and racial harmony in this country. There is no justification whatsoever, not in the name of the Quran, Muhammad or Islam, for banning the use of Allah on Malay-speaking Christians. Period.
Talk about consistency. The rest of the muslim world does not engage in this stupid act and you want to claim that which is clearly a fundamental breach of human right. Listen here, there is no human right for muslims and human right for non-muslims. ALL have the same human rights. The sooner the likes of you understand this, the better.
JMD : Wah wah wah… why so defensive? Is it not true? In case you haven’t already know, I do not censor comments unless for obvious reasons (profanities etc). I believe everyone here knows that. And to bring in Nuraina into your argument is a very cheap shot indeed. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen mate. State your case, and wait for the reply. Be patient. I will approve it when I am logged in. No one else here ever complained about it. These people have manners. Unless if you see that other people much later than you had their comments published, then you have some grounds to complain.
And also, I did not compose the petition. Are you dyslexic? Read the article again.
You said to Muslims do not interfere with other people’s religion, but you yourself unashamedly had said that if confusion exists, then it is OUR problem. How could you know? Are you an expert in Quran now? Please do not subjugate the role of learned Muslims just to strengthen your pathetic argument. Kurang ajar would be an understatement term for you.
Please refer Surah Al Baqarah 126 – 140. It is YOUR problem mate, not ours.
The Herald started all this. Bringing the case to court just because of the matter of pride. Read the article again mate.
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Allah bukan hanya dilihat sebagai disebut dlm Bahasa Arab. Terdapat 99 zat bagi Allah disebut dlm Al-Quran …Jelas memberi makna yg sangat berbeza .
Dlm Al Quran , Allah berfirman, ” didirikan lah Solat…( hingga ke akhir ayat) ”
Maka adakah solat pula disamakan dgn “sembahyang” dlm Ugama Kristian ? atau pun solat yg didirikan oleh Orang Islam dgn sembahyang yg didirikan oleh Orang Kristian sama juga diterima oleh Allah ?
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I don’t mean to butt in, Brother or aren’t you Father Sam? I am not a Malaysian Malay but my mother was a Sabahan, born in Sandakan and grew up in Penampang to mixed parentage — my late grandfather was a Kadazan from Penampang who had converted to Islam after he married my late grandmother who was a Malay Pengiran from Sandakan. I have a lot of cousins who are Roman Catholics mostly from Penampang. My Malay Muslim cousins are mostly “orang Sungai” from Pitas.
I sometimes travel to Kota Kinabalu (KK) to visit my relatives there. During one of my visits many years ago, I happen to enter one of the bookstores in KK and I was quite taken aback when I browse through some of the Malay religious books (which were intermingled between Christianity-related topics and Islamic ones!). I read in most of the Malay-translated bibles the word Tuhan and interspersed with Allah had been used quite frequently of course inside the Christian holy book.
Fortunately for me I was a grown-up adult with basic foundation in the Islamic Faith, having attended at least four years of primary Agama Islam classes. On top of that I had taken the Islamic Religious Knowledge examination subject until Form Five.
There and then when I was in the bookstore, I suddenly got worried what if a very young Muslim boy who had no inkling at all about the difference between the Malay bible and the Islamic holy book, the Al-Qur’an, had gotten hold of the Malay translated bible? Of course he could read in Malay and only knew all along that Allah is Tuhan or God the Almighty is only written in Islamic books and not in any bible?! Wouldn’t the very fact that in the Malay version of the bible the misuse and abuse of the sovereign word and holy sanctity of Allah as the one and only Almighty God in our Quran be a misleading and transgressing factor which could confuse the young Muslim boy or girl? I can safely say that the mere misuse and abuse of the word Allah in any Malay bible is the worst and dirtiest trick to influence young Muslim minds become confused and get waylaid in the process to follow the ‘lost teachings’ or “Ajaran Sesat” of Christian missionaries’ evil intentions! Ggrrr… 😦
I now put forth my top priority concern that this highly sensitive and most controversial issue should not only be condemned by Malaysian Muslims but also by all Malay Muslims in the whole Malay world including as far away as in South Africa!
JMD : Thank you for the comment.
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JMD tumpang tanye to Apocryphalist…he seem to be in the know on this
If it all boils down to linguistic issue.
Lets go back to the First Non Malay/Indonesian Bible that what brought into Malaysia back in whenever la, what language was it in?
Could it be possible that the person tasked to propagate the religion armed with their book of reference not in Bahasa would probably go around asking the natives of Malaya(or whatever they call it then) What do you call your God?
And them being Muslims (I presume Islam came after Hinduism here and Hindus dont call their god Allah) answered Allah SWT…..
And this man, who ever he is would then think, yeah this is the best way for me to spread the message to these Natives, knowing full well that Isa is mentioned in the Quran.
For all those who then quoted that there was a great Melayu who translated the Al-Kitab
DID Anyone actually see his version or do you only see the “Edited” Version or Was he a “secret” Convert?
Ask yourself if you are a Muslim, would you accept a job to translate the Bible??
Now lets go back to the ORIGINAL intention, as per ORIGINAL Sin la…….
If the government is SMART they must BAN Indonesian Version of BIBLE and Allow Printing of Bahasa Malaysia Bible without the term ALLAH……
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You don’t get it do you. The name Allah is used in places where people know that Allah means god. Obviously if Christian missionaries preached in Mongolia or Belize, Allah is a foreign concept. Arabs and Malaysians know what Allah is and understand that it refers to God.
JMD : This is where you are wrong. In the Malaysian context, the name Allah is used in places where everyone knows that Allah is the name of the Muslims’ God. See the difference? Thank you.
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I’d like to clarify my previous phrase re-quoted by EWO, taking into consideration the rantings by SAM, beautifully rebutted by JMD.
“It is not because the word ‘Allah’ belongs to the Muslims, it is because the law in this country protects Muslims from apostasy.”
I wanted to convey the message from a broad angle that God is indeed the creator of all mankind, creatures and the universe, regardless the religion one might belong to, therefore the first portion of the phrase.
But after reading Sam’s blunt piece, I feel the urge to follow up from a specific angle.
“Allah is another word for God. Christian, Islam and Jews originate from the Middle-east, where language was the same. The term Allah is a universal and unilateral translation for “God”. God the almighty, Allah the almighty, same thing. Tuhan yang maha kuasa. Allah yang maha kuasa. As written in our Bahasa Melayu Bible.” How hurtful these words can be.
JMD was damn right. Sam is an ignorant specimen who knows nada of what he utters. Please refrain from spitting mindless opinion on a subject that is foreign to you especially when you cant even get it right about your place of birth.
Allah is in fact the only term that the Muslims refer to the One God (other than His 99 divine names), be it in whatever language it is spoken in. In English, the Muslims say ‘Allah’. In Malay, it’s ‘Allah’. Be it in French, Russian, Mongolian or Japanese, we say ‘Allah’. The Muslims do not change how they refer to God conveniently based on geographical attachments. When we pray in English, we’d say ‘O Allah the Most Merciful’. When we pray in french, we’d say ‘ Mon Dieu, Allah, le Tout Misericordieux’. In Malay, ‘Ya Allah, Tuhan yang Maha Pengasih’. The generic term for God in Arab is ‘Rab’. ‘Allah’ is specifically THE GOD. The ‘One’ that the Muslims pray and submit to. The term is non interchangeable.
I hope all the rich knowledge sharing in this discussion area would enlighten those who could not get it why the Muslims are either vexed or concerned with the Herald’s action. Continue to be ignorant on matters that are dear to any of us such as the religion would only lead to further friction among the different segments of the society. I disagree with EWO’s stand that we should all follow the path of the mat salleh ideology for justice, liberty, human rights and freedom to become a cohesive nation. The western propaganda is not a panacea for the unique country like ours. We should develop our own model to achieve a balanced nation where eastern values can be preserved and sensitivities are learnt and respected by all parties. I remembered living harmoniously during the 80’s. The model of a multi-culture nation does work with Islam as the official religion. We just need to correct the weaknesses in the previous model like by expunging elements that create corruption. (shiut, i digressed.)
Re-echoing JMD’s summary on the issue: To the Herald, its linguistic, and there are options. To the Muslims, its sensitivity. In a country of delicate social composition, we are of the opinion that the Herald could make do with a suitable alternative for the Holy Father. Insisting on applying the term ‘Allah’ for publications in this particular country would just solidify the Muslim’s perception that there is indeed prawn behind the stones.
Few words for EWO,
I can feel the excitement and motivation in your writing and endless counter-rebuttals. You are passionate in propagating your thoughts on how Malaysia should model itself. First you talked about lingual arguments, when the point has subsided you then spoke of national cohesion. You are one resilient blogging soldier. Despite the difference in our views, we all share a common understanding. We love this country. Thanks for writing in Bahasa. Your intellectual views were rather beautifully and clearly reflected there.
JMD, the bookworm. Have you read “Muhammad in the Bible” by Abdul-Ahad Dawud? My father bought it for less than RM15 I think from an obscure bookshop in Jalan TAR and I swear its the best book I’ve ever read with some thorough researched arguments on the subject of Islam and Christianity. It is an old book as the author was born in 1867 as David Benjamin Keldani.
JMD : Thank you River for the comment and the book. No I have not read it 🙂 Will look it up pronto.
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Well ‘Protestant’ & ‘Emanggup’, you’ve seen yet another example of how ignorant & arrogant some West Malaysians can be to the two states across the South China Sea.
Funny Apo is insinuating about drastic actions ‘motivated by love’, especially when it comes to E.Mal natives who have been using that word for generations, and not ‘only recently’ as claimed. Have you ever read Orwell’s 1984? Know anything about the ‘Ministry of Love’?
Anyway, little use arguing to people who refuse to open their minds and see the bigger world out there. The funny thing is further comments from these folks on this issue only helps reinforce my point in the first paragraph.
Peace. 🙂
JMD : Why is this sudden fixation on Orwell’s book? Everyone seems to be talking about it. Your views on the Animal Farm could be far different from other people who had read the book too. As for the case of ‘Protestant’, we all can see a perfect example of somebody that lack manners. Plus, there are indeed a bigger world out there than the world of The Herald. Hopefully they can venture a guess on other people’s feelings too. Thank you.
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why does the christians insist on using the name ALLAH in their translation of GOD? i do not understand.
Eyes Wide Open. this is my reply to your issues.
Isu yang pertama: larangan itu adalah berdasarkan kekeliruan yang mungkin dan akan berlaku sekiranya perkara ini tidak dibendung. mengapa sebelum ni masyarakat islam malaysia tidak campurtangan? kerana kami tidak tahu perkara sebegini wujud. jika benar penggunaan ALLAH telah bersebati dengan diri mereka, tolonglah terangkan kepada saya, bagaimanakah fahaman kristian mereka? apakah Allah itu bapa Jesus? atau Jesus adalah Allah? siapakah tuhan? Jesus atau Allah? apakah Allah adalah nama Tuhan ataupun Allah bermaksud Tuhan? harap dapat terangkan dengan teliti.
dalam perlembagaan telah dicatatkan bahawa setiap orang bebas menganut agama mereka sendiri. malahan, Rukun Negara telah menyatakan bahawa pegangan masyarakat Malaysia adalah “Kepercayaan Kepada Tuhan”, bukan “Kepercayaan Kepada Allah”. ini menunjukkan perlembaggan mengiktiraf kewujudan penganut agama selain islam. ektrapolasi EWO yang mengatakan “…jika hari ini melarang segelintir penganut Kristian dari menggunakan nama “Allah” yang memang sudah menjadi kebiasaan bagi mereka, apakah hari esok akan menghalang mereka dari menggunakan perkataan “Tuhan” kerana kepercayaan Muslim adalah “tiada Tuhan melainkan Allah”?…Ataupun, agama lain tidak dibenarkan lagi kerana Malaysia adalah negara Islam, “tiada Tuhan melainkan Allah”, maka jika ingin menyembah Tuhan, hanya boleh menyembah Tuhan yang satu, iaitu Allah?” adalah suatu yang tidak benar, tidak akan berlaku (kerana bercanggah dengan perlembagaan) dan bersifat keji. percayalah, itu tidak akan dan tidak mungkin berlaku. malahan, saya (dan saya percaya semua orang islam malaysia) tidak pernah terfikir pun akan berlaku perkara sebegitu. EWO sahaja yang mampu terfikir sehingga sedemikian rupa kerana mungkin itulah yang disasarkan oleh golongan beliau.
Isu yang kedua: “Jika di negeri-negeri Arab, di mana asalnya agama Islam, penganut-penganut agama Islam, Yahudi dan Kristian boleh bebas menggunakan nama “Allah” tanpa berasakan yang mereka akan tersesat jalan dari agama masing-masing, kenapa pula Muslim di Malaysia tidak begitu? kerana di sana, mereka berbahasa ARAB. untuk pengetahuan EWO lagi, mereka tidak menggunakan ALLAH, mereka menggunakan ILAH, jika disebut secara slanga pak-pak arab, akan berbunyi seperti ALLAH. ILAH bermaksud TUHAN (God). ALLAH adalah NAMA TUHAN (God’s Name), yang bermaksud TUHAN YANG SATU (The One God). di Malaysia, GOD bermaksud TUHAN, ALLAH adalah NAMA TUHAN. menyamakan Allah dengan tuhan di bible adalah salah sama sekali. menggunakan Bahasa Arab untuk translation Bahasa Malaysia adalah salah dan mengelirukan.
Isu yang ketiga: “Malaysia adalah negara demokrasi moden, di mana kebebasan dan hak kesemua rakyatnya patut dibela… apa yang diingini oleh golongan Muslim yang sefikiran di sini adalah kawalan ketat kerajaan ke atas mana-mana unsur, orang, kaum, agama dan sebagainya yang dirasakan berkemungkinan boleh mengganggu ketenteraman fikiran kaum majoriti di Malaysia. Apa yang disarankan itu adalah dikenali sebagai Fascisme. Seperti dihuraikan di Wikipedia:… lagi satu fitnah. Islam menuntut penganutnya agar menjaga kebersihan dan kesucian agama Islam. perkara ini boleh menimbulkan kekeliruan penganut Islam yang lemah dan ini adalah salah satu cara kami untuk menjaga kesucian agama Islam. tanpa campurtangan kerajaan, perkara ini boleh menjadi lebih tidak terkawal. jika menurut hujah EWO, memang benarlah kerajaan kita mengamalkan dasar demokrasi. MAJORITI rakyat Malaysia beragama Islam dan kehendak MAJORITI agar kerajaan mengharamkan penggunaan Allah dalam Bible. silapnya di sini adalah demokrasi tidak mungkin akan membela keperluan SEMUA rakyat, ia hanya perlu membela keperluan MAJORITI rakyat untuk ianya berfungsi.
malahan, ayat apa yang diingini oleh golongan Muslim yang sefikiran di sini adalah kawalan ketat kerajaan ke atas mana-mana unsur, orang, kaum, agama dan sebagainya yang dirasakan berkemungkinan boleh mengganggu ketenteraman fikiran kaum majoriti di Malaysia menunjukkan EWO mengaku bahawa isu ini sebenarnya MEMANG mengganggu ketenteraman fikiran kaum majoriti di Malaysia.
sekiranya kerajaan FASCISME:
1. TIDAK AKAN WUJUD RAKYAT MALAYSIA BERBANGSA CINA ATAU INDIA
2. TIDAK AKAN WUJUD AGAMA LAIN SELAIN ISLAM
3. TIDAK AKAN WUJUD BAHASA LAIN SELAIN BAHASA MALAYSIA
4. TIDAK AKAN WUJUD SEKOLAH VERNAKULAR
5. TIDAK AKAN WUJUD NAMA-NAMA CINA ATAU INDIA
be grateful of what you have. diberi betis, nak peha, diberi peha, nak body.
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JMD.
In all fairness ah, how come all Tam, Dik and Haris are allowed to call Christianity “ajaran sesat” willy-nilly, openly accuse all Christians of having some kind of evil Austin Powers-type world-domination plot, even threaten violence and death, and still demand that Christians give way on no uncertain terms, wan?
Is this the “chop Malaysia punya” version of mutual respect and living harmoniously with each other? Wa, then I dam scared lo.
I try to live out my faith, I never proselyted to Muslims nor do I know of any type of world-domination plot even though I have been in various levels of church leadership. So all this things nothing to do with me, right? But still, I dam scared la.
I scared one day ah, some “loving Muslim” gonna come to my house and slit my throat, my wife’s throat and my baby girl’s throat because he misheard me say “ALAMAK!” and feel it cause his children to follow the “ajaran sesat” God.
But you say – don worry, it won’t even happen when Christians are forbidden to use the word Tuhan. So chances of such scenario happening should be next to zero, right?l
You know nothing is impossible la, bro, especially in Malaysia. I will bet you my bottom dollar that if this ban goes through, the issue only gonna escalate. only a mater of time.
You really think such level of suspicion and hate can be quelled by a simple ban on a word? Get real… Malaysians have died for much less.
JMD : Whoa Eyes Wide Open! Muslims will be slitting throats of Christians in Malaysia? Gosh.. never thought that of that before. So there is indeed paranoia then? On both sides? I thought paranoia is only in the minds of the ‘insecure’ Muslims… Thank you.
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peacelovekindness,
What a nice nick you have my friend, but I am quite sad to read your 2nd last paragraph. I could understand the anxieties on the confusion of a young muslim boy might have when he accidentally read a bible or christain article written in Malay. However, I am inclined to think that the likelihood of this confusion is very little compared to the effects of you banning the use of the word. For the christains who have been praying and identified God as Allah, the sudden forbidden use of such word will greatly affect them – so please don’t expect them to be pleased about it.
We are all children of God. We should love one another with kindness and respect. This contraversy only came in the last few years – where before that it was not the issue. I think it is the result of people who are so over zealous in identifying the causes of their problems. Over zealous lead to extremism. When you are extreme you fail to see it. Haven’t we seen enough extremists in the world today?
When comes to Islam in Malaysia, you could even see vast difference with regars to the tolerances and compassion for instance, between the muslims in Sarawak and in West Malaysia. Muslims in Sarawak grow up closely with the non muslims and accept each other irrespective of their religious beliefs. I for instance grew up with Muslim kids and sometime stayed in their homes. In West Malaysia I have many close muslim friends who never miss a prayer. Many times while travelling with them on the road, I used to wait in the car for them to pray at nearby surau or masjid. I had stayed with my muslim family in Seremban. These group of muslims accepted me as a christain. I would be greatly hurt me if these muslim friends of mine are part of the people who would champion the ban of the word Allah to be used by christains. Fortunately they are not.
There are many Malaysians who convert to Islam mainly through marriage, no one complains, this is not the issue to non muslims. Any act of intolerance only bring negative feeling toward Islam – you should be aware of that.
To JMD: No sir, I won’t sign that petition. I also think the Malaysians who are so engrossed with the quest in banning the word Allah (to be used by christains) to get out of your coconut shell. Look out, at the world, not only in the Malaysian context. Please treat the non muslims with respect and compassion, you may earn more points in the eyes of God rather than spending all your obsessive energy trying to correct whatever that is bothering you – while doing so, you sin against other humans. Wake up.
JMD : Just one more question ya. Why won;t you sign the petition? Thank you.
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Oh by the way, JMD, I am a Bruneian Malay Muslim (my late father was of Malay-Arabic descent and my mother is Malay-Kadazan Muslim from Sabah).
And I can only pray (Doa) that all your relentless fight for justice and the Truth in this endeavour against the blatant abuse of Islam’s most sacred name of ALLAH in the Malay version of the bible by arrogant and ignorant Christian movement in this part of the Malay Archipelago shall be blessed by ALLAH SUBHANNAHU WATAALA… AMIN YA RABBAL ALAMIN!
This irresponsible act on the part of the Christian theologians in the Malay world must be put to an end at all costs! My worries about the exact same issue many years ago is beginning to rear its ugly head now! Mind you, I have two young kids who may fall into their trap to get confused by it all i.e. by illogical rampant use of Allah in Malay versions of the bible… grrr! 😦
What has MABBIM and MABIMS whatever done about this issue? They should be the regional bodies to come forward to the forefront to defend the integrity of the Malay language and the Islamic religion NOW! They better act fast, too!
It is bad enough that hundreds (if not thousands) of Indonesian street children in Jakarta, Medan & elsewhere had been lured into Christianity by meagre Rupiahs enticements or incentives or bribery of the highest order!
I know for a fact that the Vatican has strategised for the Philippines to be their focal missionary operations with money pumped in to spread Christianity into Southeast Asia. Manila is being strongly supported by their Australian big brother! So we Muslims in the whole of Nusantara Melayu Islam should be UNITED in our plight against such illicit dirty tactics by the Pope! It is totally unacceptable and unethical for Christianity to stoop so way down low in their aggresive drive to spread their questionable teachings here!
I rest my case…
JMD : Thank you for the comment.
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Eyes Wide Open,
You said ……”Jika kerajaan diminta menjunjung kuasa sebegini, suatu hari nanti mungkin diri sendiri yang akan menjadi penerima akibatnya. Bacalah “Animal Farm” oleh George Orwell untuk memahami bagaimana ini boleh berlaku tanpa kita mengetahuinya”.
I would have thought that what Orwell wanted to make fun of was movements that claimed to represent a new world order of justice and equality but later turned out to be as corrupt or worse than the old regime it replaced.
By the way, dont you think that Napoleon in Animal Farm has an uncanny resemblance to Anwar Ibrahim?
JMD : Thank you Lekiu. I was also quite perplexed when people started attaching Animal Farm to this issue. To me, Animal Farm can be an ominous warning about the repercussions of any regime change.
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Hi JMD,
The Herald people are actually a minority who do not represent all Christians in Malaysia. I agree with you that this matter could have been settled amicably with a little give and take, without involving the Court. As I commented somewhere earlier, I personally would not be able to use the word Allah as this is synonymous with Islam. This letter to the Pope will not take off because he does not represent all Christians either. A better solution would be for you and the other bloggers, commentators etc to write or send your articles directly to The Herald Editor.
One effect of the use of the word Allah by Christians, which does not seem to have been considered is that, this will also confuse the young Christians, especially in East Malaysia, who will be the ones reading the Malay Kitab etc. Because they may then be swayed towards Islam since Christianity in Malaysia appears to be admitting that Allah is the One God?.
Anyway, this is just my two sens worth.
JMD : Thank you Ju for the comments.
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I have a question..why want to change it only here in Malaysia?
Did they change the Chinese Bible referring Jesus Christ as Buddha, or the Indian Bible as Siva, or the Nordic Bible as Odin, or the Greek Bible as Zeus etc..etc..why only in Malaysia?
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hi JMD (and Apocryphalist), somehow I’m back again. From reading the later comments, I gather that you two and the other Muslims oppose the use of Allah in the Malay bible and other Christian publications thus support the government’s ban because of the two main reasons below (correct me if I’m wrong).
1) Muslims has one God only, and it is Allah. Hence, the word “Allah” is sacred and holy to all Muslims. That’s why to use it in any other context, or religion in this matter, would greatly offend the Muslims in Malaysia. (Just a question, how come the Arab Muslims are not offended though? Are they less religious?)
2) It seems that there are hidden agendas at work. Some of the Christians intend to confuse and convert the Malaysian Muslims by using the word “Allah” in their Malay bible and publications.
Personally, I’ve met some Christian friends who have tried to convert me to Christianity in an annoyingly persistence way, usually by continuously preaching its teachings to me, or sometimes giving me bibles (guess I’m counted as one of the unreached too, Muslim or not). So in a way, I can understand your fears and irritations. But to be fair, most Christians don’t bother me and respect my religion (buddhism by the way).
Apparently, there may be people out there with a Christian agenda, but is there any prove that The Herald is part of them? Or rather, the newspaper and the Christian communities that oppose the ban are just trying to defend what they’ve been doing since a long time ago (by now there should be no dispute, after so many commentaters speaking out, that the Sabahan and Sarawakian Christians have indeed been using “Allah” in their Malay bibles since Christianity took root in Borneo?).
That, similar to your fear of a hidden sinister Christian plot, they fear that government may actually have a hidden Islamic agenda in their ban too? (First it’s the use of word, what’s next? demolishing churches? Sadly, the current government doesn’t have a decent track record in this matter)
Of course the government may not have any agenda at all. What I’m trying to say is, like you, they feel threatened as well? And perhaps more so because they are the minorities in Malaysia?
With both sides fearing each other, isn’t it all the more essential to sit down and talk? Did the government attempted any talk with The Herald at all? Did the Cabinet consulted both Islamic and Christian authorities before making their decision?
Pardon my ignorance, but what about the YDPA and Sultans, who are our heads of Islam, and are responsible towards protecting both the interests of the Muslims and other religious communities (as provided in the Federal Constitution)? Anybody consulted them? I don’t like all royals, but at least some of them have more common sense and sensitivity in them than our government.
You have reperatedly stressed that this issue is not about the language, so I have dropped out all arguments regarding it.
p/s: Regarding the tax money part, just curious, I know mosques and suraus are indeed built using government fund, but if I’m not mistaken, temples and churches are mostly built using private funds contributed by their followers, no? They get public fund too?
pp/s: Would just like to find out, it was specified in which part of the Federal Constitution that Malays cannot convert out of Islam, or is it provided in the state constitutions as this is an Islamic matter?
Thanks and cheers
JMD : Article 11 (4) of the Constitution – State law and in respect of the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Labuan, federal law may control or restrict the propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam.
Article 12 (2) – it shall be lawful for the Federation or a State to establish or maintain or assist in establishing or maintaining Islamic institutions or provide or assist in providing instruction in the religion of Islam and incur such expenditure as may be necessary for the purpose. The Constitution is silent in the funding of institutions of other religion. However, the federal government do give out funding to build churches and temples regardless what is NOT in the Constitution. Thank you.
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JMD,
Satire la, beb. Satire! You guys no sense of humour wan meh?
Oh…forgot. You guys can’t get satire.
Sigh…Anyway, just to be clear:
Para 1 is a composite of the many vicious comments against “Christians” found here. The threat of violence is courtesy of Apo’s vague allusions to the “loving Muslim’s” reactions.
Paras 6 and 7 are my honest opinion.
The rest is superlative hyperbole bullshit!
My ALLAH! You guys are seriously anal-retentive!
(Ooops…anyone lost their faith, yet?)
(Just to be clear – the last two lines are…humour.)
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Also,
“I would have thought that what Orwell wanted to make fun of was movements that claimed to represent a new world order of justice and equality but later turned out to be as corrupt or worse than the old regime it replaced.”
That’s if you read it strictly as a satirical work. (At last! Someone who gets satire!)
But if read allegorically, we can glean a deeper meaning.
The fascist state is not a product of virgin birth – it does not simply just come to be. Fascism exists first as a state of mind, which finds one of its expression in the fascist state.
What then is the fascist state of mind?
– Belief that there exists a single, superior identity (racial, religious or political)
– Desire to subordinate all other identities to the said “superior identity” (either through assimilation, suppression or elimination)
– Intolerance of criticism and opposition to the fascist state of mind and its expressions
Tell me honestly – doesn’t this exist in our country, even at the highest levels of political leadership?
JMD : I do not think it exists now. If not, you will have a homogenous society, religion and culture by now, dictated by a singular, powerful entity. Thus, the eyes will see what it only wanted to see. Even if they are wide opened! 🙂 Thank you for the comments here and above.
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My good Christian, empanggup, sir
My humble apologies for having overlooked your kind response to my ‘extremist’ view of this whole issue. I have great respect for you and all Christians the world over. After all, most of my relatives are Christians, too. My ex-wife was a Roman Catholic from the Philippines. I mingle closely with many Christians in either my social or professional circles. Being a people-person myself, I interact well with all of my Christian contacts.
Last year during the fasting month, out of sincerity and pity, I offered a Polish couple on a shoe-string budget (backpacking hikers who’re Roman Catholics) a place to stay since they couldn’t afford a hotel. Thank God they didn’t sleep in the park under the moonlight then because there was a heavy downpour that night! Kindness (just as Cleanliness) is next to Godliness, isn’t it Sam, no matter which religion?
I’ll cut to the chase and straight to the point: Isn’t Islam the Official Religion in M’sia?
If yes, then non-Muslim Malaysians have no choice but to strictly adhere to Governmental policies in upholding the Islamic institution from being tainted.
If we were to look at this particular issue from the modern legal angle, this misuse and abuse of the word Allah in Christian writings is tantamount to illegalities with respect to Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and Copyrights Act. Period. Case closed.
JMD : Thank you for the comment.
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Some people seem to miss some points. When I wrote the above petition I have the following things in mind:
(i) It is only for the Christians. The Muslims can’t sign it as the pope is not their figure of authority
(ii) It is only for Catholics. Non-catholic denominations, which numbers much more, can write a similar piece from the same blueprint to their heads.
(iii) Even then, it is only for Roman Catholics: Followers of the Mennonites, Coptic churches, Greek Orthodox and various others sub-cons of Catholicism can write their own versions. (p.s. personally I like Pope Shenouda better than Pope Benedict. He is so much more distinguished with beards. Unlike Muslims who think following the prophet Muhammad is virtuous in every way, even up to the way he dresses or talks, Pope Benny, being a representative of Jesus on earth find it necessary to use Gillete everyday, but I digress).
Now having said all these, let me give you a clincher. A confession. empanggup is right. He, along with others, won’t sign that petition. Not Ever! And I don’t expect them to. In fact, some readers here have written to me and Jebat to ask to put the petition up in the form of online voting or polling and we tell them no.
Why?
Simply because it’s a rhetoric petition. As in a “rhetorical question”that seek to establish that a query posed with prose do not really need an answer because it is too obvious, similarly the petition acts more to checkmate the situation (now I see where omongwaras is right) after a difficult process of indecisive zugzwang. The “Quid Pro Quo” here, irrespective of whether it is accepted or not, will expose lots of things. If it is not accepted, it will expose the intent of the missionary christians in wanting to use the name Allah. If it is, it gives a chance to the muslims to fight for the name Allah to be installed in much wider circulation of christian bibles all over the world, not just in Malaysia.
That way, first steps of unification of the two Abrahamic religions can be taken and the next step is, of course, weeding out blasphemies and false dogmas attributed to this God and accepting the Qur’an as al-Furqan, a sort of abrogater of wrong doctrines and a standard reference document to judge between the wrongs and the rights. (After all, if there exists gospels according to Luke, Matthew, Mark, John and there exists scores of other gospels that do not make it into the canonization and all these gospels more often than not contradict each other, the Muslims have just ONE Gospel according to Allah, the One True God. All other man-made ones based on hearsay should have their truths pegged upon this very Word of God). In the same breath, I have answered Ju.
As usual, I have encountered EWO’s silly argumentations before but nothing compares with this inane melodramatization of Muslims slitting his wife’s throat. If you all notice, his constant “bring it on” provocations I choose to ignore but I think by this time you all understand why.
And a special dedication to River. Your mention of the 19th Century Christian Priest David Benjamin Keldani’s book “Muhammad in the Bible” brings back tearful (literary) memories for me. Some time ago, in another time and space, I was invited as a speaker by a multi-dominational Christian community to talk about Islam. The reason why sooooo many people came at full house (I had instructed the Muslim audience to stand up and give the chapel seats to the christian audience who came from various churches) was the topic of my talk: It was “References of Jesus Christ in the Quran”. I must salute these christian audiences, I tell you. So respectful, non-confrontational and very receptive. In fact I still remember when I was reading the lengthy Quranic verse regarding Mary alaihissalam, a few Christian nuns in black habits sitting in the front row were shedding silent tears but camouflaging them with smiles. Oh they were lovely people. The programme went on smoothly without interruption except for this one guy that kept haggling and disrupting my talk. It turned out later that he was a jew. Yes, in the event that the Muslims and Christians get united, the jews have a lot to lose.
Anyway when it was nearly over I thanked the audience for their time and as a concluding remark I told them that if they want, I can continue with a part II of the talks entitled “References of Muhammad in the Bible” to be held at their respective churches and almost immediately and in one voice they piped, “No no no no thank You.” Hehehe. Anyway, I was then invited to four more churches after that but not regarding the topics I mentioned. All of these were right thick within the Bible Belts. I had to practise on my twangy drawls.
The book “Muhammad in the Bible” is one helluva powerful revelation. Father Keldani later changed his name to Abdul Ahad Dawud. Go ahead and read it, Friends.
Lekiu, you are in error. Napoleon is much cuter.
Rin, there has been a very MASSIVE misconception both in the linguistics as well as in the theological sense of associating this issue with the name Allah used by the arabs. Rather than displaying the argument here, I have chosen to pool the resources together and compile it with examples, factual references and sayings to nullify this to be used in the courts for those defending the government’s stand should the Herald continue with its insistence to take the government to courts. Stay Tuned. (By the way Rin, why won’t you want to be converted to Christianity? Read my theories here .
Thank You
Apocryphalist
=============================
Jesus, you just wont believe the hits you’ve made around here
You’re all what we talk about being the wonder of the year
I am waiting, yes I’m a captive fan
I’m dying to be shown that you are not just any man.
Soooo… if you are the Christ, yes the great Jesus Christ
Prove to me that you’re no fool, walk across my swimming pool
Prove me to me that you’re divine, change my water into wine.
King Herod’s Song from ‘Jesus Christ Superstar’
Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber
p.s I dont approve of the rock-star characterization of Jesus anymore than I do Martin Scorcese’s mocking portrayal of a sexually-liberated Jesus, but I like the guitar solos.
JMD : Thank you for the comment Apocryphalist. You should write a book about your experiences. I will buy it 🙂
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Eyes Wide Open,
I thought the intent of satire is to the correction of vice and to reinstate virtue. The tone of your writing seems to ridicule Muslims and in reference to your writing at (02:48:53), where you made a grisly remark about your wife being killed by a Muslim who seem to be hard of hearing that he/she cannot distinguish between Allah and Alamak.
I agree with JMD, you can hardly call Malaysia a fascist state. That is a bit unkind dont you think ?
Looking at nation states who have in the past attempted to take a highway to fascism, I doubt it we’re even close to it. Have a little faith in the people of Malaysia making this transitional step towards the betterment of the country.
JMD : Thank you for chipping in Lekiu.
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salam
JMD and Apocryphalist
I have been following this topic all over lah.
Apa yang saya perhatikan… Kebanyakkan yang memberi respon ni terlalu emosi, tidak mahu membaca dan tidak mahu memahami tujuan “Protest” tersebut.
And yes ramai juga yang assume kita tak faham perbezaan Protestan and Catholics .. and all other Churches like those Greeks and Russian Orthodox.
For you guys out there…. sorry to dissapoint you all lah.
Yes kami juga tahu Budhism pun ada sect.
Mind you Hinduism too..
Just to tell our non muslim friends we DO KNOW.
okay…sorry put that aside
so back to the topic.
Kita hanya sekadar minta mereka menilai keikhlasan diri mereka menggunakan perkataan ALLAH.
Kenapa ALLAH?? Kenapa Tidak SIVA dan BUDHA??
Kebanyakkan Rakyat MAlaysia saya rasa amat jelas Siapa SIVA dan Budha.
As simple as that..
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Hmmm, INTERESTING!
So Apo was invited to a Christian seminar (held somewhere within the Bible Belt, no less!) to give a talk about “Jesus in the Quran”.
So…you were a minority Muslim in a majority Christian nation, invited to address a Christian assembly on the Muslim view re the personhood of Jesus (which is irreconcilable with the Christian view). And you gush that they were lovely people – “so respectful, non-confrontational and very receptive”.
Ahh….so!
Any hope of that happening here in Malaysia with the roles reversed?
I’ll be more than happy to match Apo’s itinerary. One Muslim assembly first, speaking on “References to Allah in the Bible” (not the Malay translation, but in its original languages). And I would be very, very glad to see that Muslims in Malaysia are equally lovely – “so respectful, non-confrontational and very receptive”.
And I would also be happy to accept FOUR more invitations to address other Muslim assemblies after that!
How about it, Apo…
Quid Pro Quo?
JMD
Re: my comment that the fascist mindset exists in our country, even at the highest levels of political leadership.
you said – “I do not think it exists now”
I quote the beloved and wildly popular DemiNegara (contrasted with the working definition of a fascist mindset, for easy reference):
– Belief that there exists a single, superior identity (racial, religious or political)
“I must reiterate that the “Malays” and the “Natives of any of the States of Sabah and Sarawak” are constitutionally distinct from the “other communities.” Sorry, we are not the same under the Malaysian Federal Constitution.”
and
“”to cast the “Malay” and other “Natives” in the same light as the so-called “other communities” and then to demand kesamarataan among these two groups…are not only unconstitutional, but also seditious, delusional, mischievous and self-destructive…etc”
etc, etc, etc
– Desire to subordinate all other identities to the said “superior identity” (either through assimilation, suppression or elimination)
“the creation of a Bangsa Malaysia speaking in one voice, Bahasa Malaysia, guided by the budaya and tatatertib of the Orang Melayu.”
and
“The Federal Constitution hence clearly implies that the “right” of the non-Malay, non-Borneo native populace is non-absolute and subordinated to the rights of the general populace”
and
“The greater public good – in this case, a single unifying language for the Federation – by definition must prevail over ancillary cultural rights of assorted sub-groups and descendants of the immigrant races.”
etc, etc, etc
– Intolerance of criticism and opposition to the fascist state of mind and its expressions
“the anti-Malay reactionary forces (is) currently infesting and contaminating our Tanah Air, it is time for all patriotic Anak-Anak Bangsa Malaysia to rise and question the many social anomalies and maladies propagated by these same treasonous reactionary forces that have effectively short-circuited our nation building process.”
and
“If we think we are a people worthy of our own Negara Merdeka under the Panji-Panji Raja-Raja Melayu Berdaulat, we must then take swift and decisive action to annihilate this societal outrage that has become a clear threat to our socio-political stability,”
etc, etc, etc
And lekiu,
Please don’t cut and paste from Wiki.
It only exposes your ignorance regarding literary devices and your (in)ability to grasp the nuances of writing, which is apparent to anyone who actually reads.
JMD : Greetings EWO. I think I am correct with my assertion that there is no fascist mindset in this country because importantly, where it matters, the Malaysian government themselves do not submit to this kind of state of mind. That is why we are ruled by a coalition of varied parties representing everyone (from the Malays to the Kadazandusun). Hence, my last reply to you applies. Furthermore, there is an absence of 100% assimilation of minorities into the majorities (the magnitude of assimilation in our country is very low as compared to the US for example).
Lastly, if you want to cut and paste Demi Negara’s statements as an example of fascism, other people also can quote from anti-Malay blogs as an example of arrogant, intolerant seclusionists and blatant chauvinism.
If you have a problem with Demi Negara’s articles and commentaries, I implore you to give him a piece of your mind there.
Thank you and have a good weekend.
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I can see now why Apocryphalist refers to EWO as a “bring it on” guy. But “tin kosong” is more like what I have in mind.
L.B.
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Eyes Wide Open,
OK accepted. Please give your name, address, IC and phone number and the denomination you belong to so an official invitation can be given out. (Please submit to Jebat Must Die here if you want to preserve anonimity). Only requirement is that you take off your shoes when we let you enter our mosques and suraus to speak in front of our congregation. We’ll try to collect donations to provide Karipap and Mee Bandung as well. Seriously.
Apocryphalist
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Eyes Wide Open,
I did not have to wiki Animal Farm !! I read it when I was in my 2nd or was it 3rd year at law school. My interest was piqued because during lecture, my Legal Theory lecturer mentioned it and it so happens at that time, I was a bit of an idealist as well. Since rumours swirled that he was a marxist and an atheist, I decided to get a copy of the book and check out what the fuss was all about. It is not everday in class that a lecturer will bring about a story of a revolution led by farm animals!
You might disagree with me, by all means argue and back it up with solid arguments, but to tell me that I am ignorant and it is obvious to “anyone who reads” is not right.
The book was written by Orwell in criticism of Marxism. The farm animals were upset with the conditions in the farm and promised the animals that if they manage to overthrow the humans, the animals wold lead a better life. Marx when he espoused his theory was saying about the same thing as well. Marx was clearly upset with the labour conditions in Europe at that time in which he felt was oppressive and exploitative.
The allegory that you mentioned was symbolic of how good intentions became perverted by power. How can you say that i cannot grasp the nuance in writing ? Unless somehwere in my comments I argued that the story has no moral value and it MUST be taken literally that farm animals must never be allowed to vote and that pigs are the most vile of animals because they have subversive plans to overthrow humans !!
I dont think it is right to pick sources for quotation to justify your belief. If you disagree with Demi Negara, by all means go there and stand your ground. But in all fairness to him, coming here and telling us what you think of him and that that this country is a fascist state because of what Demi Negara thinks, that is not right.
Whatever misgivings you may have about Malaysia not being democratic, the election process in Malaysia have seen Kelantan in the hands of Opposition for quite some time, Sabah was once under PBS and the recent GE produced stunning blow in several states against BN. The Herald is free to sue the Government.
I hardly call that kind of environment, Malaysia going the way of Nazi Germany or Mussolini’s Italy.
Demi Negara forcefully argues his belief and he is entitled to it. You have your reasons to disagree with him. I call that free speech. How persuasively one argues would result in how popular such argument will become. Father democracy is all smiles at such a development. Interestingly enough, the democratic process brought about Nazi Germany. Democracy is strange in a scary sort of way.
What you should worry is when everyone in this country having the same uniform thought.
By the way in United States for example, KKK and other white supremascist are free to march and publish their hateful propoganda. AIPAC and their likes are free to write anti arabic literature in support of their aims. Europe allows pro Nazi group to do the same, no one there claims that the country is taking an expressway to become a fascist state. They believe it is part of free speech. It is the competition of ideas is what democracy is trying to protect.
Lets have a discussion and push ahead with our own agenda for a better Malaysia but in doing so, a common courtesy and a bit of respect should be accorded to one another.
JMD : Thank you Lekiu. As always you have been very wise in your remarks.
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Apo
nice try.
email your phone no to me and I’ll call you to make the arrangements.
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Dear Friends,
I have noticed this EWO for quite some time now. From his phrases and writing style I gather that he had masqueraded before using some other nicks, and perhaps still do using multiple ones. He enters people’s websites, write lengthy but substance-less ramblings (tin kosong, L.B.?), and entices people to come and answer and have verbal fights with him. People tried to convey to him that he doesn’t belong to that same level of Demi Negara etc, but this doesn’t discourage him. He builds his website and then, in anticipation that blogsites that he attack do not publish his views, posts them there itself, trying to lift himself up as someone who has been wronged, whose ideas has been oppressed etc. Sometimes this is done prematurely: he does that even BEFORE his postings are even posted by the blogmasters.
What does one do with an anti-malay anti-islam nonsense propagator who writes copiously, lacks ideas, very loud (and disrespectful too sometimes) but mostly, outclassed and below-par? To ignore him, he will trumpet out his “oppression” elsewhere and will portray as if he is some kind of hurt hero. To answer and “layan” him will make one stoop low to that level. How now indeed?
But this episode right here really is the eye-opener of all. First, Apo asks the Christains to take some steps: petition to the pope. EWO doesn’t respond to this invitation but instead did what he does best: mumble on and on (not that I read anyway) without facts without substance without points. Then he does a reverse Quid Pro Quo on Apo: he challenges the latter to invite him. And when Apo accepts, he chickens out pulak with a one liner—perhaps his only one-liner ever. After all, giving out a name and address to which an invitation can be given—an official one—is straightforward and quite the norm. Give it to Jebat (or to me)if people don’t want to know you. But nooo, he is too loud-mouthed substanceless shit to do even that. His intent is not to convey (much less to accept) ideas but to disrupt those whom he feels too way beyond his class at least by distracting readers via loud ramblings.
I suggest, dear friends, we will just ignore this guy from now on. He doesn’t come inside Deminegara anymore. I am sure that’s either because he really feels he is outclassed, or that he is starting to be ignored there. Or both.
http://tamdalyell.blogspot.com/
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Yo,
EWO,
I can recommend you to the Islamic Information Services organisation! They will gladly accept you as a speaker in their MANY debates/talks with Christians. Buddhists and adherents of other religions.
I have attended a few of their dos…certainly we welcome you!
Because we find that these very well moderated and conducted polite, intelligent discussions and dialogues only serve to strengthen the case AGAINST polytheism, idolatry, trinitism, atheism.
Welcome…tell me when, I know the organisers personally. They are on very good terms with church leaders! They don’t send mobs to slit throats. I promise.
Honest discussions are always welcome.
Oh, wait… I see Apocryphalist has already extended an invitation…why, are you afraid to give him your contact info?
Squawk.
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JMD,
I like your idea of asking the local Christians to show their sincerity by your (i) – (iv) points which include petitioning the Pope asking to insert the word Allah in every issue of the bible.
I hope you allow me to say the things that were either wrong-key-pressed by me or computer-virussed when submitted to another blog recently (a second try also failed):
No doubt Christian Arabs use the word Allah but that is because it is their mother-tongue. Arabs are sometimes defined by the Arabic language they speak – the Muslim Iranians are not Arabic because they habitually speak Farsi.
Abdullah Yusuf Ali, the well-known translator and commentator of the Qur’an, said that our holy book was translated into Greek, Latin, French, German, etc many hundred years ago (he was a Greek history lecturer and and studied those translations in Europe). One translation was made for the Pope and it was designed to discredit Islam, with an introductory volume smearing the religion that has been on the ascendency in the world since the death of Prophet Muhammad.
The Malay language bible may not be smearing Islam but why do the local Christian leaders insist on using the word Allah when Muslims object to it?
Many Muslims may not have been aware about the use of the word Allah since a decade or more ago but when there is a hue and cry against it now, why the intransigence?
They should be sensitive to the feelings of Muslims who became aware, especially after revelations on the conversion attempts on Acheh tsunami victims. Even attempts on Orang Aslis are not acceptable as it tends to disturb the balance in the religious affiliations of Malaysians. The Muslim-dominated Malaysian Government does not allow even the Jabatan Agama Islam to interfere with the beliefs of the Orang Aslis.
Best wishes.
JMD : Thank you for the comment.
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Did God Himself ask for His name in His holy book (bible) to be changed? Surely the answer is NO! If a single word in a holy book is changed, then can we say that holy book that we are willing to die for is anymore authentic? Surely not! Authentic words from the creator MUST NEVER change by even a single word. And changing the name of the creater who revealed the holy book Himself? Truly blasphemous! It is only bad intentions that lead to the desire to change God’s name to Allah.
What sort of cheap publicity the christians are doing? The very act of changing the name of God or Lord in the bible to Allah is clear testimony that ALL bibles in the whole world are written by mankind themselves, and they write it to their whims and fancies. They will change even the name of their God in their so called holy scriptures! What hypocricy!
Now, when God’s name can be changed at will, even anyone without religion will attest that this sheer act of changing name of God by the supposedly religious people only shows that whatever holy scriptures that have been used for centuries by this religion (christianity) are NOT authentic at all. If these books (bible) are authentic then they should not change from the day they were revealed until doomsday.
Because God’s words never change, if God’s words do change that means God can cheat us, and that is an impossibility!
So how can christians proclaim that bibles are authentic words from God if even a single word is changed! And this change is of the highest significance, it is the name of the creator himself. As though when God revealed the bible He forgot to use his real name in the holy book? Does this show God is forgetful? Or was God stupid not to use His real name in His holy book? No! It is impossible for God to forget or stupid, isn’t it?
The stupidity only come from the people who wrote the book, and they wrote it in different versions, and use different names in different books!
And stupid again, after centuries of worshipping the Lord, suddenly today we feel that the name of the God we have been praying to must be changed!
For what? The only reason that even the stupidest of ordinary folk can think of is only that of the desire by christians to confuse the Muslim people into believing that christianity is indeed very similar to Islam by having the same God’s name. In this way they hope to overcome the first hurdle for Muslim to embrace christianity in Malaysia. Clearly there is ulterior motives and intention with this intended change of God’s name in bible!
What cheap publicity is this, are the christians in malaysia bancrupt of better ideas than this? Since when is the christian God’s name can be changed at will by the people?
A true religion from God should not change over time. God’s name wherever written should remain the same until the end of the world. So what kind of religion is christianity? Just trying to gain followers by deception, only the stupidest of people will not see this logic.
For that matter, what sort of authenticity does any religion at all can proclaim if the very holy book supposedly coming from God is NOT authentic? If christians do have moral values, then they should not even THINK of changing their God’s name in their holy books! The sheer act of thinking such stupid maneuver is sinful and they should go kill themselves to clean from the sin of changing God’s name in the supposedly God’s holy book!
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Assalamu alaikum JMD
Just my take on this:
I am trying hard to find a logical solution to all this fuss but all I see picturing in my mind is like an episode of ‘Law and Order’. Unfortunately, unlike the tv programme where quid pro quo usually happens, I see no end to this and that is why discussing religious issues (of God’s name, of all things) is deemed highly sensitive in a country such as ours where freedom of speech is not absolute freedom.
Let me rehighlight that the real issue under scrutiny is bigger then letting The Herald use the term ‘Allah’ in their weekly newsletters. Let me also state that the use of the term does not cause people that share my background to get confused so much so weakening my faith in Islam.
My concern is that term is used freely in literature especially for young children who read tales of the prophets (yes, the ones with pretty illustration) and find out that the ending is different altogether than what is taught in al Qur’an by their teachers and parents. I shudder knowing the fact that the few who are unable to read the al Qur’an may rely on translations of it to learn the religion and get it wrong. Worse, they could not tell one scripture from the other!
This is my genuine worry because I see them happening around me. So out of respect rather than right to my fellow peace-loving Christian friends, I hope that commonsense prevails.
It is always difficult to draw a clear line in matters such as this and I wish we do not venture there and share a common ground instead. That for me, is essentially quid pro quo.
Wassalam.
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The Home Ministry has allowed the use of the word “Allah” by Christian publications to refer to God, in an approval given by minister Datuk Syed Hamid Albar on Feb 16. See Bibles allowed to use “Allah”
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hamid albar menyerah…
**Sigh**
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/2/26/nation/20090226182427&sec=nation
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Pingback: Dengan nama Allah: Apakah Pak Lah, Anwar Ibrahim, Haji Hadi & Niz Aziz hendak lakukan? « On Da Street
What do you mean by the illustrious christian community. Your article starts out pajarotive and is very myopic.
I am a Christian who does not believe that the name Allah should be interchanged with Lord. However, your agruement is flawed for the following reasons.
1 Christians all over the Arab world use the word Allah for God.
2. if you muslims say that you believe in the same judeo christian God as we do and you are a descendent from Abraham, why should we not use the same name for the same person.
3. Malaysia is far from tolerant. Since when could a muslim convert to christianity freely? Where is the tolerance there?
4. Do you really view your fellow muslims that “foolish” that they would be tricked into believing Christianity because the word Allah is used. Sounds like you are more paranoid than ever that your flock may convert. If I were a malay muslim I would be offended at that belittlement.
You can’t have it both ways.
Either you believe in the same God of Abraham as we do or you beleive in a different god that only you can call Allah.
So hung up about a name. Truly sad.
JMD : This issue has been debated earlier. Please read the comments above. Just for kicks, please refer to this PKR YB for his thoughts: http://zul4kulim.blogspot.com/2009/03/allah-kristian.html
Thank you.
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correction:
I meant to say the same God of Abraham
so as not to offend.
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Read the Holy BALENYATA: It is published in Malay now.
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JMD,
My name is Tengku Alam and I have been living abroad for some time now. I am still Malaysian so things Malaysian do concern me. I just came across this interesting article and I do not know the updated information or status of this issue. However, as someone who is trained in linguistics, I would like to write an article from a linguist point of view, to be posted in a Malaysian newspaper, which, in my view, will help clarify matters. I want my articles read by the masses, that is why it is of vital importance that the issue is still relevant. If the various parties involved had reached an amicable agreement, then there is no point for me opening up old wounds.
So, JMD, could you oblige enlightening me the details or overview on this issue of Allah and Catholics? It is so difficult finding reliable source of Malaysian news abroad. I find you one of the few bloggers that write with sense. For your assistance, my endless gratitude.
Thanks again and keep the ink flowing!
JMD : Thank you for the comment.
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Allah the Almighty Creator
21:22 (Y. Ali) If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!
Who are we to prevent others especially the Christian to called Almighty God the Creator as Allah?
It only proved the failure of our education system. After more than 50 yrs of independent and living together, many Muslim don’t even understand Al Quran and Hadith or share Islam with their non Muslim neighbours and friends.
Didn’t the Malays realised that Prophet Abraham is the father of all the three major faiths ie Islam, Christian and Judaism.?
Allah is the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them) and all mankind.
Why don’t we refer to the Quran and find the guidance there
• 2:1 (Y. Ali) A.L.M.
• 2:2 (Y. Ali) This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
• 2:3 (Y. Ali) Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
• 2:4 (Y. Ali) And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
• 2:5 (Y. Ali) They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
• 2:6 (Y. Ali) As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
• 2:7 (Y. Ali) Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
• 2:8 (Y. Ali) Of the people there are some who say: “We believe in Allah and the Last Day;” but they do not (really) believe.
• 2:9 (Y. Ali) Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
• 2:10 (Y. Ali) In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
Allah warned the Christian in the Quran but whywe fail to understand:
5:14 (Y. Ali) From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
5:15 (Y. Ali) O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,-
5:16 (Y. Ali) Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight.
5:17 (Y. Ali) In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.”
5:18 (Y. Ali) (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
There are many contradictions in the bible, however the teaching of Moses and Jesus (Esa) are well preserved by Allah.
Deuteronomy 5:6–11
6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
7 you shall have no other gods before me.
8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,
10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
TRINITY is not the teaching of Jesus and Allah also preserved the teaching of Esa (Jesus) in the bible:
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).
Every Muslim old and young should understand the meaning of Ayatul Qursi and Surah Ikhlas
• 2:255 (Y. Ali) Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
• 112:1 (Y. Ali) Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
• 112:2 (Y. Ali) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
• 112:3 (Y. Ali) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
• 112:4 (Y. Ali) And there is none like unto Him.
Please ensure that all Muslim students learn and understand Aqidah or Tauhid in school. The Education Minister and every muslims are answerable to Allah if any Muslim student fail to understand Islam. Major damaged to Islam in Malaysia was done by DrMahathir himself as a PM by not helping and stop financing Sekolah Agama Rakyat. Will Allah blessed the Malays?
A positive note from Allah to the Christians
Surah 5:Ayat: 82-83 “And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud. When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messenger, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses”
Two very informative books must read by Muslim and Christian
http://www.usislam.org/converts/converts.htm
http://www.scribd. com/doc/2731984/ Jesus-the- Bible-Rashad- Abdul-Muhaimin
Allah know best
Shuqaiq KSA
JMD : Another commentator who used the the Quran to justify the act of The Herald in using Allah in the Bahasa Melayu edition. I should advise you to ask The Herald if they agree to all the Quranic verses above about their own God. Yeah, blame this all on Tun Mahathir. That should do it.
Plus, Nik Aziz also mentioned that ‘Allah’ must only be used by believers of Islamic Allah concept (mesti beriman pada Allah yang satu. Please read here.
Thank you.
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Dear arah,
I would say good quotation of Quran verse you got from, and I believe you are well educated in Islam. Congrats to your teachers (including your father and mother) for being able to guide you.
However, do you ever think to those who are unfortunate as you are? We are not living in the era of Umar Abdul Aziz whereby at that point of time, Muslims were well too wealthy. Nowadays, some muslims not even well fed. Do you think, in that condition, will they get proper education?
Secondly, you put the blame on Tun Mahathir. May I ask you, The Herald put forward this issue during Tun’s reign or during Pak Lah’s time? Did we ever heard this kind issue during Tun’s time? Please be fair.
I know, that I maybe unable to well versed as you are or any ulama, but at least with what I learn, I can use it to think about others who are not as fortunate as I am.
Thankful is one thing, but unselfishness is another thing.
Yes, leaders will be asked during afterworld, but should we, as ordinary muslims keep quite when something endanger other muslims? If then, I would say, we send all leaders to Gaza to fight, instead of sending supplies or even troops or help to Gaza, because based on your argument, I understand, put it on the leaders.
I can continue, but I’ll repeat whatever I wrote in my blog. Read if you have the time and I believe you can understand Bahasa, as I assume you are a Malaysian living in Saudi Arabia.
Wallahualam…
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My dear Ondastreet.
Thank you for your comment.
Surah 5:Ayat: 82-83 “And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud. When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messenger, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses”
It’s still fresh in my memory ,how cruel the Malaysian Government prohibited the lecture of our beloved Ahmad Deedat at Dataran Merdeka in early 90, and chased him out of the country. We were also being chased out of Masjid Negara because Emeritus Profesor Dr. Khoo Kay Kim was giving his talk at the veranda of the Masjid. Even today you can see how the tourists being treated if they visit our Masjid especially Masjid Jame’ Jalan Tun Perak, KL.
Why? Because we don’t welcome other to know about Islam. Are we following the teaching of IQuran and the sunnah of Rasulullah s.a.w?
Can we accept such poor excuses from Tan Sri Hamid Othman and Datuk Abdullah Mohamad Zain?
We are still waiting the Government of Malaysia to give a valid reason for not allowing the Christian to called Almighty God the Creator as Allah based on Al Quran and Hadith.
The Education Ministry should study why, why, why after 13 years our children goes school and thousand of hours spend learning Islam, million of ringgit spent ,yet Government still worried that the Malay get confused with who is Allah. Don’t they learned to understand the meaning of simple surah ie Al fatihah, Al Ikhlas and Fundamental of Islam? , Many are still poor in Mathematic, Science, English and even Bahasa Melayu. I have personal experience, teaching anak Orang Asli in Pangson, out skirt of KL who can’t even read and write after 6 years in School. Its only proved another failure of our education system.
Since the Government have been preventing Tafsir Al Quran in Masjid and Surau and too much entertainment Jom Heboh, Sure Heboh, One in a Million are more important than religious teaching, we are producing blind followers of Islam who can’t even explain the meaning of Islam when asked by the non Muslim who have been staying and working with us for years.
Every Christian believed Almighty Creator created Adam and Eve. Every Christian believe the story of Noah, Abraham, Soloman, David, Moses and Esa ( Jesus) peace be upon all of them. Who are these prophets if they are not the Messenger of Allah?
4:163 (Y. Ali) We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
OOOp No they are the Messenger of “ Tuhan” not the Messenger of Allah. Can you believed that!!!!!!
• 6:84 (Asad) And We bestowed upon him Isaac and Jacob; and We guided each of them as We had guided Noah aforetime. And out of his offspring, [We bestowed prophethood upon] David, and Solomon, and Job, and Joseph, and Moses, and Aaron: for thus do We reward the doers of good;
• 6:85 (Asad) and [upon] Zachariah, and John, and Jesus, and Elijah: every one of them was of the righteous;
• 6:86 (Asad) and [upon] Ishmael, and Elisha, and Jonah, and Lot. [70] And every one of them did We favour above other people;
• 6:87 (Asad) and [We exalted likewise] some of their forefathers and-their offspring and their brethren: We elected them [all], and guided them onto a straight way.
• 6:88 (Asad) Such is God’s guidance: He guides therewith whomever He wills of His servants. And had they ascribed divinity to aught beside Him-in vain, indeed, would have been all [the good] that they ever did:
but the truth.
What all of us should worry and prevent is the Shirik or associate Our Almighty God with others
• 4:48 (Y. Ali) Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
5:72 (Y. Ali) They do blaspheme who say: “(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
4:171 (Y. Ali) O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
Have we done enough to spread the Good News to our Malaysian?????
OOp JAWI, JAIS, JAKIM and even PERKIM under Dr Mahathir are limited only to the Malay. What a sad story.
May Allah forgive all our sin and give us the blessing.
http://www.usislam.org/converts/converts.htm
JMD : Apalah yang saudara MEREPEK mengenai Dr Mahathir ni? Kes ini timbul dalam tahun 2007. Tidak usahlah hendak menyebarkan propaganda yang tidak betul di sini. Sila baca komentar komentar dari pembaca beragama Islam di dalam artikel ini sebelum menulis. Sejak bila pula ‘Since the Government have been preventing Tafsir Al Quran in Masjid and Surau’.
Masjid di rumah saya kerap kali menganjurkan sessi menafsir Al Quran. Selidik dahulu sebelum menulis.
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Dr Mahathir menempa sejarah kerana pemimpin Melayu yang menghentikan bantuan kepada Sekolah Agama Rakyat.
Berapa ramai remaja melayu yang x faham Islam dan terlibat dalam kes zina, bunuh anak, dadah, blackmetal,rempet dan maksiat maksiat lain.
Semuga ia sempat bertaubat dan minta ampun atas dasar dasarnya yg merosakan akidah anak Melayu
JMD : Sememangnya saudara tidak berminat terhadap isu asas artikel ini tetapi hanyalah salah seorang anti Mahathir yang hanya tahu mengkritik orang lain tanpa mencermin diri sendiri.
SAR juga yang saudara ungkitkan. Macamlah SAR sahaja yang menjadi pelindung kepada rosaknya akhlak ramai remaja Melayu. Tulisan saudara mencermin bahawa jika para remaja Melayu tidak bersekolah di SAR, maka mereka akan terlibat di dalam ‘kes zina, bunuh anak, dadah, blackmetal,rempet dan maksiat maksiat lain’.
Berapa ramai kenalan saudara yang tidak pernah bersekolah di SAR tetapi dalam waktu yang sama tidak terlibat di dalam gejala tersebut? Ramai bukan?
Tuduhan tidak berasas saudara bahawa Dr Mahathir merosakkan akidah remaja Melayu hanya berlandaskan pemberhentian bantuan kepada SAR? Di mana saudara dapat bukti tersebut? Sewenang wenangnya memfitnah orang ini tidak baik. Saudara ini tidak pernah belajar agama ke?
Perkara yang lebih baik dari SAR, iaitu Sekolah Menengah Agama Negeri dan Sekolah Menengah Agama Kebangsaan didirikan oleh kerajaan dan dibantu 100%.
Sememangnya kerajaan banyak berjasa mendirikan dan membangunkan Islam. Takkan itu pun saudara tidak nampak.
Sila baca di sini juga.
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Isu dalam artikel ini telah ditulis oleh Dr Mohd Asri Bin Zainul Abidin setahun yang lalu. Khas untuk JMD dan yang sewaktu dengannya .
Banyak pihak mendesak saya memberikan pandangan tentang penggunaan nama Allah oleh agama lain khususnya agama Kristian di Malaysia ini. Pada awalnya, saya selalu mengelak, cuma memberikan pandangan ringkas dengan berkata: “Isu ini bukan isu nas Islam, ianya lebih bersifat pentadbiran atau tempatan.
Peraturan ini mungkin atas alasan-alasan setempat seperti kenapa sekarang baru ditimbulkan isu ini? Kenapa hanya Bible dalam bahasa melayu sahaja yang hendak menggunakan panggilan Allah, tidak pula edisi inggerisnya? Adakah di sana ada agenda tersembunyi? Maka wujudnya tanda soal dan beberapa prasangka yang mungkin ada asasnya. Maka lahirlah kebimbangan terhadap kesan yang bakal timbul dari isu itu nanti.
Namun, akhir-akhir ini saya terus didesak. Saya kata: jika anda hendak tahu pendirian Islam bukanlah dengan falsafah-falsafah tentang akar bahasa itu dan ini yang diutamakan. Rujuk terdahulu apa kata al-Quran dan al-Sunnah. Lepas itu kita bincang hukum berkenaan bertitik tolak dari kedua sumber tersebut.
Kadang-kala kesilapan kita dalam mempertahankan perkara yang tidak begitu penting, boleh melupakan kita kepada isu yang lebih penting. Isu yang terpenting bagi saya adalah kefahaman mengenai keadilan dan kerahmatan Islam yang mesti sampai kepada setiap rakyat negara ini, muslim atau bukan muslim. Supaya gambaran negatif yang salah terhadap Islam dapat dikikis dari minda mereka yang keliru.
Sila baca seterusnya di :
http://drmaza.com/home/?p=566
JMD : Minta maaf, terpaksa dibuang sebahagian komen di atas kerana terlampau panjang. Dr Asri sememangnya betul apabila berkata akidah umat Islam perlu dikukuhkan. Walaubagaimana pun, Dr Asri masih tidak menjawab persoalan di dalam perenggan kedua tulisannya sendiri. Nik Aziz juga telah berkata bahawa isu penggunaan perkataan Allah hanya untuk orang yang beriman sahaja. Ini lebih bertepatan untuk menjawab persoalan yang dikemukakan. Di harap saudara sudah mengerti apa isu sebenar yg sedang berlaku. Negara ini ada undang undang yang sudah termaktub sejak dahulu lagi. Apakah saudara menghalalkan sesiapa sahaja untuk melanggari undang undang? Terima kasih.
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Saudara JMD,
Hari ini saya bercerita dengan Isteri saya tentang perbalahan pendapat berkenaan penggunaan nama ALLAH oleh umat bukan beragama Islam.
Memang benar nama ALLAH ada digunakan oleh penganut bukan beragama Islam disesetengah negara, khususnya timur tengah. Bahkan sebelum diturunkan Islam, masyarakat Arab Jahilliyah menggunakan perkataan ALLAH dalam kehidupan seharian mereka, sebagai contohnya pada nama ayahanda Rasullullah SAW sendiri iaitu ABDULLAH. Dari segi bahasa dan pengertian memang tidak ada silapnya nama ALLAH itu digunakan oleh mana-mana agama pun.
Tetapi di Malaysia, keadaan ini memang unik dan berlainan. Kerajaan Malaysia yang diterajui oleh pemimpin yang majoritinya beragama Islam tentunya punya sebab yang kukuh untuk tidak membenarkan penggunaan nama ALLAH sebagai merujuk Tuhan bagi agama lain selain Islam.
Saudara JMD, saya terkedu mendengar pendapat Isteri saya berkenaan hal ini. Katanya, walaupun menurut bahasa bahawa perkataan ALLAH itu hanyalah satu perkataan yang berasal dari bahasa Arab yang bermaksud Tuhan, namun nama itu sendiri sangat suci, murni dan keramat dan seharusnya hanya dibenarkan pada agama yang tahu menyanjung nama itu dan bukan pada agama atau penganut agama yang akan menghina nama ALLAH.
Sambungnya lagi, lihat saja pada penganut agama Kristian (mohon maaf disini ) di Malaysia, adakah mereka meletakkan lambang salib dan nama nabi Isa ditempat yang wajar ? Tanda Salib dan juga nama Nabi Isa mereka persendakan. Mereka bawa kemana-mana saja mereka suka tidak kira ke pusat maksiat, disko, sedang bermabukan, ke tandas atau kemana saja tanpa punya rasa hormat. Tanda Salib dan nama Nabi Isa dijadikan Tattoo, diukir di punggung, di betis, dada malah mungkin dicelah-celah kangkang. Tanda Salib dan nama Isa juga dicetak pada Tuala, baju, selipar, kasut dan sebagainya.
Kata Isteri saya, perkara ini akan berlaku pada nama ALLAH jika kita benarkan penggunaannya kepada penganut agama lain. Apakah tindakan kita umat Islam ? Adakah kita akan membiarkannya ? Apakah kita akan membiarkan nama ALLAH dalam tulisan ARAB dijadikan tattoo dibetis, dicelah kangkang , dipijak2 dan sebagainya ?
Nahuzubillah. Semoga ALLAH sentiasa melindungi kita umat Islam di Malaysia ini dari sebarang kecelakaan. Memang jelas kebenaran yang diperkatakan.
Jika KDN tidak bertindak tegas dalam hal ini, perkara malang tentu berlaku pada nama ALLAH di Malaysia. Semoga KDN juga tidak flip flop.
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Catholic Church & ‘Allah’ in Malaysia
Published : March 13 2009
By Fr Lawrence Andrew, SJ
The Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department, Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamidi was asked to comment on the use of the word ‘Allah’ by non-Muslims during a TV 1 interview on Wednesday Feb 18. In his spontaneous response he asked the same question that Utusan Malaysia had asked a week earlier in one of its articles Mengapa baru sekarang? (Why now?).
Certainly this is a question that is being asked around by some people today. We do not want to make this discussion to become a political controversy. Nevertheless we have an obligation, as the leading Catholic Weekly, to give correct information about the use of the word ‘Allah’ in the Church.
We begin by stating that the word ‘Allah’ is not a new word in the theological vocabulary of the Christians since the time of the Sultanate of Malacca, of the Straits Settlements, of the Federation of Malaya and later of Malaysia. Thus, the use of the word ‘Allah’ was known even before the various Malay groups and other ethnic groups came to make Malaysia their homeland. Some of the vociferous people who have championed the Ketuanan Melayu, as reported in the various dailies, are people who have come from the neighbouring countries within the last two or three generations of their family histories. They have come later than the arrival of the Catholic Church in Malacca.
This is testified by the fact that we have a Malay-Latin Dictionary printed in 1631, in which the word ‘Allah’ is cited. To have a word in a dictionary means that that particular word has already been in use in the community prior to the dictionary.
The word for ‘God’ in Latin is ‘Deus’ and in Malay is ‘Allah’. After the coming of the Dutch in the country a Dutch-Malay Dictionary was produced in 1650 where the word for ‘God’ in Dutch is ‘Godt’ and in Malay ‘Allah’.
Who can deny this historical evidence? We do not want to labour the existence of the Bible in Malay as it is already known to the outside world, treasured in some reputable Museums in Europe. So, we do not want to be the laughing stock of the world by categorically denying its existence. However, it is important to stress that before the Anglicization of the country took place in the fields of education, commerce, governance and others — whose legacy is still felt, among others, in the common use of the anglicized titles and attributions of the Police Force of our country — there was already in the Catholic Church the use of the language of Malay as its means of communication.
We have another piece of historical evidence to prove that we have been praying in Malay. Last week (Mar 1) on Page 1 we carried a scanned picture of two pages from the prayer book of the period before the turn of the twentieth century. This shows that we have material proof to claim that the Catholic Church has been using the Malay language in her worship and has no hidden agenda to confuse the Malays, as some of the panelists in the state owned TV1 on Tuesday February 17 from 9.30pm to 10.30pm, have accused the Catholic Church of doing.
Historically, then, who has brought about the confusion kekeliruan in our land about the word ‘Allah’? We do not want to do the despicable thing of pointing our fingers at others or to find a scapegoat in order to cover up for the lack of ingenuity, honesty and integrity. Experience tells us that it is always good to be objective if we want to know the truth. Did not Jesus teach us that “Truth will set us free”?
Let us do a simple and quick exercise by tracing the evolution of the word ‘Allah’ in our dictionaries. Let us begin with the dictionaries that were published after May 13, 1969 which event is a watershed mark in our nation. Till today we have no evidence of any party or Government official saying that there existed some confusion or kekeliruan among the people prior to that infamous date!
In the Malay Kamus Dewan of 1970 the word ‘Allah’ was defined as Tuhan and ‘Tuhan’ as Allah yang menciptakan alam samesta; Allah yang Esa. Also in 1989 in the Kamus Dewan, the word ‘Allah’ was described as Tuhan yang Esa and ‘Tuhan’ as Allah yang mencipta alam semesta. The two words were used interchangeably at this point in history. During these two decades, no particular attributes were attached to the word ‘Allah’.
In the Kamus Dewan (Dwibahasa) of 1990, the word ‘God’ was translated both as Tuhan and Allah. However, it was in the 1992 Kamus Dewan (Inggeris Melayu) that the word ‘God’ was translated both as Tuhan and Allah but with the word ‘Allah’ now being nuanced by two words — in Islam — written in parenthesis. From this moment on the Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Dictionaries began to attribute the word ‘Allah’ to the God of the Muslims. So who has confused the people on the word ‘Allah’?
Courtesy: Herald Weekly, Malaysia
JMD : Thank you for the comment. Then again, why are you quoting from the Herald Weekly when you should be quoting from Ulama Islam? You only took Dr Asri’s article against most of the ulamaks here in Malaysia. Even then, Dr Asri did not really indulge himself into the heart of this issue. It is a luxury for him as he is talking about this from London, and is not among the people who are directly responsible to make decisions about this matter. Even Nik Aziz is against such a move by Herald Weekly. Thank you.
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PAINGAN menulis
” Memang benar nama ALLAH ada digunakan oleh penganut bukan beragama Islam disesetengah negara, khususnya timur tengah. Bahkan sebelum diturunkan Islam, masyarakat Arab Jahilliyah menggunakan perkataan ALLAH dalam kehidupan seharian mereka, sebagai contohnya pada nama ayahanda Rasullullah SAW sendiri iaitu ABDULLAH……”
Ingin saya perbetulkan, Islam bukan di turunkan di zaman Nabi Muhammad s.a.w tetapi sejak zaman Nabi Adam lagi dan Nabi Muhammad s.a.w ialah nabi yang terakhir.
Adalah menjadi rukun Iman untuk setiap orang Islam mempercayai setiap Nabi dan Rasul termasuk Nabi Musa dan Nabi Isa.
Nabi Isa tidak mengajar kecuali patuh kepada Allah yang Satu bergitu juga Nabi Musa.
Dalam Bible ternyata Nabi Isa memangil pengikutnya ” orang beriman” dan tiada Kristian di zaman Nabi Isa bergitu juga tiada Syiah di zaman Rasulullah.
Perkataan Kristian mula di pakai setelah 70 – 100 tahun Nabi Isa ke langit oleh Paul atau Saul Pembunuh.
Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
Acts 11:25-27
(Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”
Acts 26:27-29 (in Context) Acts 26 (Whole Chapter)
Yang anehnya ajaran Kristian, mereka boleh mengampun dosa Paul yang telah terlibat dalam pembunuhan ramai pengikut setia Nabi Isa tetapi mereka tidak mengampunkan dosa nabi Adam dan setiap kanak kanak yang lahir akan berdosa kecuali di baptised.
Kepecayaan karut Kristian, setiap kanak kanak yang mati sebelum di baptised akan di humban ke dalam Neraka.
Bagi Islam setiap kanak kanak itu bersih ” fitrah” atau muslim tetapi ibu bapnya yg mengkristiankan atau menyahudikan atau membawa kanak kanak itu engkar kepada Allah.
Sekiranya sesaorang membaca dan faham isi kandungan bible, pasti mereka akan meninggalkan fahaman karut ini.
Adalah tanggung jawab orang Islam menceritakan kisah kisah karut dalam bible kepada orang ramai.
Wassalam
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This thread still lingers?
I was the master of ceremony and introduced Ahmad Deedat in an event where he spoke the last time he was here in the 90’s. I don’t remember the government ever “chasing him out of the country”. This country loved him.
I still remember a group of Chinese Mak Cik Tua had to take off their shoes and they sat at the women’s praying section in the huge mosque.
Be alert, Jebat, for people who take as a motto:
“If you can’t beat them, then sow the seeds of confusion amongst them, so we may pass on the *Good News* ”
JMD : Thank you for dropping by Apocryphalist. I guess this Arah person is quite persistent in propagating his views. I am not sure why he had written about Ahmad Deedat that way. As I remembered, Ahmad Deedat even talked in Dataran Merdeka at that time.
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Kenyataan Dr Mohd Asri Berhubung Isu Nama Allah
Disiarkan pada Mar 10, 2009 dalam kategori Kenyataan & Penjelasan |
Saya bukan jawatankuasa PAS, atau orang Kelantan, namun bagi saya sesiapa yang menempelak kenyataan YAB MB Kelantan tentang isu nama Allah adalah mereka yang kurang jelas tentang akidah Islam, atau mempertahankan apa yang mereka tidak faham.
Saya telah tulis isu ini lebih setahun yang lalu dalam artikel saya yang disiarkan dalam MM bertajuk BEZA ANTARA MEREBUT NAMA ALLAH DAN MEMPERTAHANKAN AKIDAH. Saya telah kemukakan hujah dan alasan bahawa mereka boleh memanggil Tuhan dengan ‘Allah’. Al-Quran dan Sunnah membenarkannya. Akidah bukan diukur dengan panggilan, tetapi dengan membezakan antara tauhid dan syirik.
Majlis Fatwa Perlis semasa saya menjadi mufti membuat keputusan sebulat suara keharusan bukan muslim memanggil Tuhan dengan panggilan Allah. Jangan kita nak divert isu politik, kita bangkit isu agama, nanti agama menjadi mangsa permainan manusia.
Saya nasihat kepada yang bising isu ini, jika nak berjihad, biarlah kena pada tempatnya.. Ini bukan isu yang patut kita bertarung kerananya. Jika ingin melarang bukan muslim guna nama Allah jangan sebut Islam melarang tetapi beritahu mereka peraturan Kerajaan Malaysia melarangnya atas sebab-sebab tertentu.
Jangan jadikan isu agama nanti mereka hairan lain al-Quran cakap, lain pihak yang memakai jenama agama cakap. Apa yang patut JAKIM fikirkan adalah bagaimana cara agar bukan muslim dalam negara kita lebih faham dan suka dengan Islam”
-Dr. Mohd Asri,
Lampeter, UK.
JMD : Bagus juga nasihat Dr Asri.. sememangnya peraturan yang sudah wujud melarang mereka menggunakan nama Allah. Jadi, ternyata ianya bukan satu isu lagi. Ikutlah undang undang negara Malaysia. Seperti yang para ulama di Malaysia mengatakan (termasuk Nik Aziz), hanya mereka yang beriman kepada Allah sahaja yang boleh menggunakannya di sini. Mereka yang menyatakan Allah itu mempunyai anak dan bapa tidak mempunyai tauhid yang diwajibkan di dalam Islam. Mensyirikkan Allah adalah berdosa besar. Terima kasih Arah.
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Apocryphalist wrote
” I still remember a group of Chinese Mak Cik Tua had to take off their shoes and they sat at the women’s praying section in the huge mosque. ”
1. The program was not held inside the praying area
2. No one wear shoes in the masjid, so to mentioned anyone taking off shoes and sat at the women’s area is another joke!
If you was the master of ceremony, the one who introduce Ahmad Deedat, tell me why Ahmad Deedat talk at Dataran Merdeka was stop halfway?
How come you don’t remember talked by Prof Khoo Kay Kim at the at the Masjid Negara?
Apocryphalist,
Continue using your lousy motto:
“If you can’t beat them, then sow the seeds of confusion amongst them, so we may pass on the *Good News*
We are all answerable to Almighty God the Creator
JMD : To my recollection, the venerable Ahmad Deedat attended many talks here in Malaysia – in Masjid India, in Shah Alam even in Ipoh. Being quick to dismiss Apocryphalist’s reply without trying to absorb all possibilities is quite telling.
We are all answerable to Him indeed. Your pursuit of criticising something that isn’t there is being done in bad taste. You wrongly accused Dr Mahathir as the originator of moral decadence in this country, you lied when you wrote “It’s still fresh in my memory, how cruel the Malaysian Government prohibited the lecture of our beloved Ahmad Deedat at Dataran Merdeka in early 90”, (Ahmad Deedat in fact talked in so many places here in Malaysia without any prohibition from the government) and also lied about our mosques being prevented by the government to teach/use tafsir Al Quran. Why do you lie so much? Why are you so hateful?
I wish you to stop spreading all these lies by USING THE HOLY NAME OF ISLAM. Thank you.
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Arah,
The event I chaired was held in the UKM mosque, not Dataran Merdeka. The group of Makcik Tua chinese were non-muslims, as Ahmad Deedat was quite famous for evangelising to non-muslims. He gave talks to other places after that, and was never “chased” out of the country.
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Apocryphalist.
Why don’t you answer my question, why did Ahmad Deedat talk at Dataran Merdeka was stop half way?
Do you what happened in Masjid Negara?
JMD : If you know the answer my dear Arah, please do not be shy and tell us already. I see that you yourself did not answer many questions posed to you. Thank you.
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JMD wrote.
“Your pursuit of criticising something that isn’t there is being done in bad taste. You wrongly accused Dr Mahathir as the originator of moral decadence in this country….”
Terlajak perahu boleh di undur. Terlajak cakap akan di keji di dunia dan di siksa di akhirat.
KOLEKSI KENYATAAN/UCAPAN YANG MENGHINA ISLAM, MENGELIRUKAN RAKYAT MENGENAI ISLAM DAN MENGHALANG PERKEMBANGAN ISLAM DI MALAYSIA.
(Kenyataan Mahathir kepada wartawan pada 3hb Mac 1994 di Nilam Puri, Kelantan Darul Naim): Hukum rejam kepada penzina adalah primitif
(Kenyataan Najib Razak pada 20hb April 1983 kepada para wartawan): Negara akan huru-hara sekiranya undang2 Islam dilaksanakan –
(Kenyataan Mahathir pada 14 Julai 1992 kepada wartawan). Apabila hukum rejam batu sampai mati kepada penzina dan potong tangan kepada pencuri, nescaya ramailah rakyat Islam yang mati dan kudung tangan. Ini sangat memalukan umat Islam kerana orang bukan Islam akan sempurna sifatnya dan boleh meneruskan kerja.
Ucapan Mahathir pada 30 April 1992 di perjumpaan Ketua2 Umno bahagian Johor). Saya nak tahu siapakan di antara ahli2 Pas yang sanggup memotong tangan orang jika hudud dilaksanakan di Kelantan. Barangkali Nik Aziz akan melakukannya. Jika benar kita nak tengok apa yang berlaku selepas hukum itu nanti.
Ucapan Mahathir pada 2 Mei 1992 di Papar Sabah). Bagaimana kita boleh maju kalau orang Islam sudah tidak ada tangan dan kaki. Bagaimana mereka mahu bersaing dengan bangsa2 lain kalau sifatnya sudah tidak cukup. Hukum Hudud tidak sesuai dilaksanakan di negara ini yang mempunyai rakyat berbilang kaum dan agama.
(Kenyataan Mahathir kepada para wartawan pada tahun 1994 selepas mesyuarat MT Umno). Saya ingin memastikan bahawa negeri2 yang diperintah oleh BN tidak akan melaksanakan hukum hudud.
(Ucapan Mahathir pada 14 Ogos 1994 di Pasir Mas Kelantan). Sukar dilaksanakan hukum syarak kerana masyarakat Malaysia bukan seratus peratus Islam.
Ucapan Mahathir pada 3 Mac 1994 di Pusat Bahasa Arab, Nilam Puri, Kelantan). Apakah hukum hudud mesti dilaksanakan juga walau apa pun keadaan sehingga mendatangkan mudarat kepada orang Islam. Apakah dalam keadaan Islam sudah lemah, hukum2 yang boleh melemahkan lagi orang Islam mesti dilaksanakan? – Ucapan Mahathir pada 3 Mac 1994 di Pusat Bahasa Arab, Nilam Puri, Kelantan)
(Ucapan Mahathir pada 3 Mac di Pusat Bahasa Arab, Nilam Puri, Kelantan) Hudud tidak boleh dilaksanakan kerana sukar mendapat saksi yang tidak fasik. –
(Kenyataan Najib Razak pada 20 April 1992 kepada para wartawan). Kerajaan Kelantan harus dipertanggungjawabkan jika berlaku huru-hara, ketidakstabilan politik, perpecahan di kalangan umat Islam dan kegelisahan rakyat apabila hukum hudud dilaksanakan di negeri itu. Rakyat harus menyoal perlaksanaan hukum itu menguntungkan atau menyebabkan perpecahan, pertentangan dan ketidakstabilan politik. Tidak semua negara Islam mengamalkan hukum hudud bahkan ada negara Islam lebih makmur tanpa hukum itu.
(Dr. Mahathir Mohamad, temubualnya dengan media massa, 14 Julai 1992) “Apabila hukum rejam batu sampai mati kepada penzina dan potong tangan kepada pencuri, nescaya ramailah rakyat Islam yang mati dan kudung tangan.Ini sangat memalukan ummat Islam, kerana orang bukan Islam akan sempurna sifatnya dan boleh meneruskan kerja.”
Tanya idola you tu dia dah Taubat ke belum dan kalau dah taubat semuga Allah terima taubatnya.
JMD, YOU ASKED FOR IT!!!!!
JMD : Your arguments now have become useless and very petty. You were the one being cornered for spewing lies (Sekolah Agama Rakyat, saying TDM as the reason why kids have no morals etc) and now. From the main issue that The Herald should follow the Malaysian law concerning the use of Allah, you have diverted it into Ahmad Deedat, Khoo Kay Kim in Masjid Negara, Sekolah Agama Rakyat etc.
If you’re a good muslim, then you should not even raise the issue of ‘taubat’ of another Muslim. It is not you who determine someone’s fate before The Almighty. Why are you so condescending? Holier than thou nampak…
Hopefully, this matter be put to a close as we have discussed the gist of it (even the ulamas made a stand against the Herald). Let the law run its course. Thank you.
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JMD wrote:
“If you’re a good muslim, then you should not even raise the issue of ‘taubat’ of another Muslim….”????
Ajaran sesat apa yang U amalkan???
JMD : I state this again, if you’re a good muslim, then you should not even raise the issue of ‘taubat’ of another Muslim. It is not you who determine someone’s fate before The Almighty.
But since you’re taking it upon yourself to judge his akidah and iman, I am sure you are already condemning him to hell. Thank you. Hopefully, there will be some answers from you from the questions that were posed instead of more questions coming this way.
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Arah,
If I can understand your topsy-turvy grammar here, by asking
“Why don’t you answer my question, why did Ahmad Deedat talk [gic] at Dataran Merdeka was stop half way [gic]? Do you what happened in Masjid Negara? [gic]”
you mean to ask why was he stopped at Dataran Merdeka. Do I understand you correctly? Well I answered you already: I chaired the UKM event and not that Dataran Merdeka one, so I don’t know why he was stopped, if he ever was. Were you confused into thinking that he had only one event in Malaysia?
“1. The program was not held inside the praying area
2. No one wear shoes in the masjid, so to mentioned [gic] anyone taking off shoes and sat at the women’s area is another joke!”
And why was it a joke? No one wears shoes in the masjid? I don’t remember saying anybody wearing shoes in the mesjid, just these old chinese women who were non-muslims had to take their shoes off before coming into the prayer room to hear him. Why was this a big, hair-splitting mystery to you? I don’t understand.
JMD : Thank you Mr Apocryphalist for the comment.
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aik ini arah sudah lari sampai sini ka….
jawap dulu soalan gue dong?
gue copy paste dari ondastreet….tumpang lalu sdr JMD
“Apakah saudara percaya yang Tuhan yang disembah oleh orang Kristian sekarang ini itu SAMA dengan Allah SWT yg di sembah oleh orang Islam sepanjang zaman?
Sekiranya jawapan saudara adalah Ya, apakah saudara berpendapat bahawa orang kristian sekarang ini hanya KAFIR dengan Nabi Muhammad tetapi taat kepada Allah SWT?”
Lu toksah nak belit sane belit sini……simple questions there mate……
kalau lu nak copy paste ayat quran sane sini…coba explain sikit dong apekehal kena mengena dg topik ni..
ke lu ni marketing arm Herald?
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BlueGile
Biar saya tulis agar anda faham dan x confused.
Saya bahagikan bible tu ke 3 bahagian agar mudah di faham.
Perjanjian Lama, Perjanjian Baru yang mengandungi 4 Gospel dan Surat Surat oleh Paul atau Saul Pembunuh ( Saul the murderer)
Walaupun banyak percangahan dalam bible tu tapi terdapat persamaan walaupun tak serupa kisah kisah Nabi Adam dan Hawa,Kisah Kabil dan Habil, Kisah Nabi Ibrahim, Nabi Sulaiman, Nabi Lut, Nabi Musa, Nabi Isa dll.
Siapa yang menjadikan Nabi Adam dan Hawa dan setiap makluk ni kalau bukan Allah? Apakah ajaran Nabi Musa dan Nabi Isa kalau bukan untuk menyembah Allah yang Esa?
Di dalam bible pun di jelaskan bahawa Nabi Isa memangil pengikutnya orang orang beriman sama seperti apa yang di tulis dalam Al Quran.
Soalan saya, bukan kah Allah yang di sembah oleh Nabi Nabi yang berketurunan Bani Israel yang di kisahkan dalam Bible tu Allah yang juga di dalam Al Quran?
Sebagai orang Islam kita mesti berakhlak mulia sebagaimana yang di ajar oleh Rasulullah, lihatlah budi pekerti Rasulullah terhadap orang Nasrani di zamannya. Mungkin BlueGila x belajar bagaimana Rasulullah menerima wahyu pertamanya dan siapakah yang beliau dan isterinya Khadijah rujuk?
Apakah Tuhan yang di sembah oleh orang Kristian sekarang sama dengan yang di sembah oleh orang Islam?
Orang Kristian ini ade berbagai fahaman dan saya bahagikan kepada tiga golongan.
1. Yang menyembah Allah, Tuhan yang Esa.
Ramai antara rakan sekerja saya yang Kristian dari Filipina percaya Allah tu Esa, mereka tahu Paul adalah penipu dan pembunuh.
2. Yang percaya kepada Trinity ( Tuhan Bapa, Tuhan Anak dan Rohul Qudus). Roman Katolic mempercayai konsep Trinity dari fahaman Greek Kuno.
3. Yang menyembah Nabi Isa sebagai Tuhan.
Ada satu ayat dari Al Quran berbunyi
2:62 (Malay) Sesungguhnya orang-orang mukmin, orang-orang Yahudi, orang-orang Nasrani dan orang-orang Shabiin, siapa saja di antara mereka yang benar-benar beriman kepada Allah, hari kemudian dan beramal saleh, mereka akan menerima pahala dari Tuhan mereka, tidak ada kekhawatiran terhadap mereka, dan tidak (pula) mereka bersedih hati.
Saya kira Blue Gile berpuas hati dengan padangan saya.
Mengapa saya terkenang kisah Allahyarham Ahmad Deedat, apabila membicarakan isu isu sebegini.
Ketika saya di US, saya x berpeluang menyaksikan Debat Live antara Ahmad Deedat dengan Jimmy Swaggart. Apabila Ahmad Deedat datang ke Msia saya mengambil cuti ikut pgm beliau.
Suasana politik Msia tahun awal 90 x jauh beza dengan sekarang x habis habis masaalah perkauman dan saling curiga mencuriga ini antara kaum di Msia.
Ahmad Deedat telah memberi formula untuk menyelesaikan masalah perkauman dengan mengislamkan lebih ramai orang dari Cina dan dari India di Msia. Beliau menyatakan orang Melayu x serius tentang Islam serta penyebaran Islam. Apa buktinya, orang dari Cina dan orang dari India tinggal di Malaysia telah pandai bercakap Melayu tetapi orang Melayu langsung x tau nak cakap bahasa India atau Tionghua.
Kata kata beliau x di sukai oleh pemimpin negara ketika itu termasuk Datuk Bandar, lantas mengarahkan agar program di Dataran Merdeka berhentikan.
Dunia telah berubah dan semakin ramai orang Christian memeluk Islam di Eropa dan US. Di UK, undang undang Syariah di terima oleh Duke of Edinburgh ( refer comment saya kepada lilian) http://www.christian-journey.com/of-the-pope-vatican-and-allah-issue/
Tetapi di Msia, kita jauh kebelakang sedangkan kita ade JAKIM, PERKIM,IKIM, YADIM dll dan jutaan wang dibelanjakan tetapi semakin ramai yg x faham dan x amalkan Islam.
Semuga Allah mengampuni dosa dosa kita dan memberi kita kekuatan mengamalkan setiap suruhanNYA.
AMEEN
JMD : Saudara Arah yang dirahmati Allah S.W.T., betul, di Malaysia tiada undang undang Syariah dan tiada mahkamah Syariah. Manakala semua penganut Kristian di Malaysia adalah berada di dalam golongan nombor satu. Bilakah PAS akan keluar dari kepompong DAP dan dengan beraninya mengatakan bahawa mereka akan mendirikan hukum Hudud di Malaysia ini di bawah kerajaan Pakatan Rakyat? By the way, we have discussed about this issue in great depths for the past 100 or so comments. It is now up to the courts to decide on the issue. The rest of this discussion can be read here since we had discussed about this matter quite thoroughly without any conclusion in sight. In other words, let the courts conclude it for us. Thank you.
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Arah,
Saya faham perasaan saudara. But don’t worry. You are not the only person whom, masa study kat US dulu buat macam-macam nak merasakan umur muda, tapi dah balik Malaysia ni jadi lebih lebai dari tok lebai dan melihat semua orang lain salah belaka.
Semoga Tuhan mengampuni dosamu, wahai arah.
Eh tapi bestlah arah, you hantam kasi sama itu auntie lillian dalam dia punya blog. Tapi banyak cut and paste laaa. Yang originalnya sikiiiit jer. Tapi tak per. Niat mau baik. Tapi kalau dalam blog hantam sesama islam ni komain lagi you hantam pakai original kepala. Seolah-olah dari hati sanubari laa, lagu tu.
Jangan marah arah. Kan baru balik umrah, dosa pun dah gugur. Se-senyum sikit.
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Hi arah,
You are one confused angel.
Do you know that fitnah is one great sin.
Grow and wake up pleaseee.
z.evergreen
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Terima kasih, kekawan yg memberi perangsang dan juga yg mengutuk .
Alhamdulillah, sempat menunaikan Umrah minggu sudah. Terbayang kepatuhan Nabi Ibrahim kepada Allah, kepatuhan Hajar kepada suami ,kepatuhan Nabi Ismail kepada ayahnya. Subhanallah, Sucinya dan bersihnya hati hati mereka patuh kepada suruhan Allah tanpa soalan walaupun dalam kepayahan. Betapa hebatnya sumbangan Rasulullah memperjuangkan Islam walaupun di keji di hina, di tawar harta, wanita dan kuasa namun di tolak demi memperjuangkan Islam
Bagi mereka yg belum sempurna rukun Islamnya, segerakanlah menunaikan Haji & Umrah. Kalau kete RM 30K leh beli dan rumah RM150K leh beli xkan rukun Islam x leh sumpurnakan. Hidup kena ade keutamaan dan keutamaan orang Islam ialah rukun Islam. Alhamdulillah, Allah mempermudahkan saya dan isteri telah tunaikan rukun Islam yg kelima tahun 92 sebelum beli rumah RM140K
Ya,Dulu waktu muda kita ikut aje membuta tuli, maklumlah belajar kat St John, St Frazier. yg pompuan lak belajar kat Convent, Methodist school dan sewaktu dengannya.Kita x tau yg mana ibadat yang mana adat, tak tau beza yg mana wajib yg mana haram.
Bila kat US baru sedar diri ini orang Islam ade tuntutan dan peraturan ade yg mesti di buat ade yg mesti di tinggalkan.
Lihatlah sistem pelajaran Malaysia, telah melahirkan berapa ramai lagi orang Melayu yg x tau jawi dan x tau baca Quran, ade juga yg tak tau solat . Camna nak hidup berkat ,Negara nak aman.
Walaupun kita belajar di Sek Missonary Kristian x kan anak anak kita nak jahil macam kita juga. So hantar anak ke SAR walaupun jauh di Kedah. Time tu, Mahathir PM, x cukup lagi anak anak Melayu jadi beribu jadi Penagih dadah, berzina dan bunuh anak. Mahathir di kutuk lak ulama dan x bagi lak bantuan ke SAR. Apa dia kejar hanya kemewahan dunia dan material dengan W2020 dia tu. Di hina lagi hukum ALlah. Akhirnya dia di hukum di benci leh orang Melayu.
Dia dah kata Melayu mudah lupa. Dan berapa ramai dari kita yang dah lupa policy policy Mahathir dan kuncu kuncunya yg menjauhkan orang Msia dari Islam.
Bangsa Arab Jahiliyah yang duk mabuk dan bunuh anak pompuan pun tapi bila terima Islam dan ikut ajaran Rasulullah generasi kedua mereka dah memerintah Rom dan Parsi.
JHD, Setiap pemimpin akan ditanya oleh Allah apa terjadi kepada rakyatnya so x yah tunggu orang lain yg memerintah baru nak amalkan sistem Islam sepenuhnya.
Kena ikut tauladah para sahabat Rasulullah terutama Syadina Omar berapa byk harta dia kumpul walaupun jatuh Constantinople dan memerintah sepertiga dunia. Salahuddin Al Ayubi berapa banyak harta pusakanya walaupun berjaya menaluki Baitulmaqdis.
Di Msia dah lebih 50 tahun Merdeka tapi ekonomi dan keadaan org melayu semakin kronik. Lagi di kejar material lagi bertambah miskin dan ramai yg tanggung hutang hingga ke pencen. Inilah akibat amalkan sistem Kapitalis dan bukan sistem Islam. Yang kaya hanya ketua ketua dan kroni kroni mereka.
Di KL aje ade 6 Gereja memberi makan percuma untuk mak nyah dan pelacur2 yg majoritynya Melayu belum lagi di sabah n sarawak. Tanya lah Baitulmal, Masjid dan surau berapa juta dia simpan di fixed deposit dan berapa di guna tolong orang susah?
http://pemudasubang.com/v5/?p=1014
Camna ye nak jadikan Islam tu lebih relevant serta nak jadikan institusi jenama Islam tu lebih user friendly, effectif dan efficient?
OOp for z evergreen, I am not an angel but human so please be specific which part yg fitnah tu. Kalau angel x confused kecuali banyak sangat tonton Walt Disney kot.
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=zHzwA8mh_ aY&feature=related
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=cTKCianLuI0&feature=related
JMD, thank you for your space
Wassalam
JMD : Terima kasih. Pada mulanya saya fikir komen ini adalah ikhlas. Tetapi setelah membacanya, saya dapati ianya tidak lebih hanya satu ceramah politik semata mata. Mahathir dihukum dibenci Melayu? Tidak sama sekali. Itu hanya prasangka buruk politik saudara sahaja. Sekali lagi saudara membuat fitnah mengenai SAR. Sudah diterangkan di sini. Mungkin saudara terlepas pandang artikel ini.
Terima kasih.
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It is interesting that Arah mentioned that a few churches organises soup kitchen to feed the marginalised in society.
I had a discussion with an agency that is created to promote the economic well being of Muslims in Malaysia. I suggested a sort of soup kitchen to make sure that one of the most basic necessity is taken care of.
I told them, in time you will see volunteers who are willing to help out and run the kitchen and even individuals and corporations willing to donate money to run it.
It would resemble the giving of food to people during Ramadhan. Except that this one, runs throughout the year.
Unfortunately, they were not willing to help the marginalised for reasons that “these people” do not appear worthy of help due to their “activities”.
I always though that the waywards in society need to be shown that there are people who care. They will change if they believe that hope is just around the corner.
I read in a newspaper sometime back, there are several youth who, on their own, runs a similar kitchen to feed the homeless and the waywards.
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Salam Arah,
terasa lah pulak nak jawab,
Syukur Alhamdulillah saudara telah menjalankan umrah sampai lima kali?? (alangkah lebih Islam.. lebih nampak macam Saidina Omar, lebih macam Salahuddin Al Ayubi ..kan..kan..kan.. jika disedekahkan kepada yang lebih memerlukan.
Yep ..Alhamdulillah kerana dah menunaikan haji..lepas tu beli rumah 140K (alangkah lebih Islam .. kalau amal ibadah utk Allah, juga tak perlulah cerita pasal harga rumah kan…macam riak lah pula)
Erk..maaf lah brader, saya ramai juga kengkawan kat SJI, CBN, La Salle and other missionaries school.
tapi Alhamdulillah..mak bapak mereka ajar mereka cukup perihal agama. The have done nicely too.
Yet saudara, bila Anak merempit, ambil dadah pun mahu salah kan gomen ker…
Then apa tugas mak bapak brader?? Kilang proses zuriat??
Duhhhhh!!
Yep..saya pun ada dengar..ribuan orang buat solah hajat nak kan Tun Mahatir jatuh dan hina.
Hmmm…. Nak juga tanya saudara…Sekolah Agama Rakyat mana yang ajar kita boleh mendoakan kehancuran sesama Islam. Agak agaknya mazhab mana lah ajar macam tu??
Saya akan pastikan anak anak dan saudara saudara saya tidak kesana.
For i know, Baginda Rasulullah S.A.W tidak pernah pula buat macam tu.
Malahan yang bukan Islam pun di layan dengan sopan.
Ekonomi dan keadaan melayu makin kronik??
As to what??
Gamaknya makin kurang gamak nya doktor, engineer, arkitek, dan usahawan Melayu berbanding dengan tahu 70’an.
One thing for sure keadaan Melayu makin kronik because the like of Melayu like you yang tak reti nak bersyukur. Kalau tidak kerna penjanaan ekonomi dan pembiayaan pembelajaran masa TUn..you will not be able to go umrah dan beli rumah 140K tu..brader.
again, berhutang pun nak salahkan gomen ke brader??
Wahh…senang hidup macam tu.
How i wish i could go with your kind of thinking…
Kita salahkan gomen … utk setiap kesalahan dan kelemahan diri kita.
What was the name of “THE” SAR again??
P/S :
You talk about being a good Muslim,
then you talk about this missionaries kristian beri free meal pada kepada yang tak mampu.
hmmm….
Kenapa harus tunggu orang lain buat kebajikan?? Hmmm… ntah ler..tapi kalau benar apa yang saya belajar..lebih mulia duit pergi umrah 5 kali (and talking about it) tu di sedekah kepada yang memerlukan.
Ntah saya pun kurang pengetahuan,munkin saya salah….saudara yang duk gebang being a good Muslim.
Salam
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Dear arah,
kalau nak cakap pasal akhlak atau iman, pokok pangkalnya adalah kehendak kite sendiri dan juga hidayah dari Allah,
tak kira kita datang dari sekolah aliran ape pun … bak SAR … sekolah tajaan mubaligh spt St John atau La Salle … atau sekolah kat Arab pun … kalau org itu berpegang teguh pada ajaran agama dan juga menerima hidayah Allah, takkan terpesong akidah dan akhlaknya …. manusia hanya boleh membimbing dan memberi nasihat sahaja …
mungkin ada yang berfikiran saya ini ekstrem, tapi saya akan letak priority saya utk bersedekah utk memberi makan anak yatim atau ke surau daripada bersedekah ke badan amal utk memberi makan maknyah2 dan pelacur2 di Malaysia … walaupun Melayu … kerana jalan hidup mereka tempuhi adalah JALAN PILIHAN mereka sendiri …
sekurang2nya anak2 yatim boleh lagi dibimbing dan dibentuk menjadi org2 berguna …
bukan maksud utk meminggirkan golongan2 di atas, tetapi sebagai manusia yang waras, meraka patut tahu baik dan buruknya sesuatu pilihan yang dipilih …
Arah, adakah satu contoh yang baik utk anda menyalahkan Tun dan sekaligus menjatuhkan hukuman kepada Tun atas segala tindak tanduk dia. Adakah anda Hakim? Adakah anda ada kuasa yang diberi Allah utk membicara dan menghukum?
Saya rasa anda lebih pandai dalam hal ini, tapi tidak salah utk memperingati sesama Islam. Salah berkata atau salah menulis boleh menyebabkan fitnah. Adakah anda bersedia menerima hukuman akibat fitnah yang dibuat?
Anda kata Tun hanya mengejar material dan W2020. Bukankah satu IBADAH utk seseorg itu membangunkan negara sendiri? Tidak itu satu tanggungjawab UTAMA seorg Pemimpin atau Khalifah utk membangunkan rakyat naungannya …. selain memastikan Islam dipelihara. Adakah bersekolah SAR sahaja yang menunjukkan keIslaman sesorg itu?
mintak maaf saudara arah, tetapi salah tujuan Haji / umrah adalah utk mendekatkan diri kepada Allah disamping membersihkan diri & hati dari dosa dan kemungkaran …. sebagai seorg haji dan telah menyempurnakan umrah berkali2, anda sepatutnya berfikir panjang sebelum menulis komen anda kerana ramai org2 Islam yang memandang tinggi seorg Haji disebabkan Ilmu dan akhlaknya … tulisan anda di atas terutama yang menyalahkan seorg yang diberi tanggungjawab dan ditakdirkan oleh Allah utk memimpin rakyat Malaysia, tidak mengambarkan bersihnya hati anda …
daripada kite sesama sendiri berbalah, lebih baik kite berpadu utk mempertahankan Islam dari org2 kafir dan munafik spt Herald dan penyokong2nya … tapi tidak bermaksud berperang sebab Allah masih lagi buka jalan yang lain utk kita gunakan utk mempertahankan agama kite di Malaysia ini ….
saya belum lagi ke Haji atau Umrah … kalau ada rezeki dan diizin Allah, saya akan pergi … saya berdoa supaya niat saya betul dan hati saya dapat dibersihkan semasa mengadapNya …
JMD, sorry for the long comment ….
bleached_4ever
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Terima kasih Lekiu,
Agensi tu dan mereka mereka yg sewaktu dengannya kena masuk time tunnel kembali belajar dari kisah Nabi Ibrahim dengan Majusi ( penyembah api)
Pernah suatu hari Nabi Ibrahim Alaihissalam menolak seorang tamu yang berkunjung ke rumahnya. Nabi Ibrahim berkata “Aku tidak menerima tamu seperti engkau selagi engkau tidak meninggalkan agamamu dan ajaran orang-orang Majusi”. Orang Majusi itu meninggalkan rumah Nabi Ibrahim dengan perasaan dukacita sekali.
Sikap Nabi Ibrahim Alaihissalam tidak disenangi Allah sehingga turunlah wahyu yang bermaksud “Apa kerugianmu jika engkau menerima tamu itu, walaupun dia mengingkari dan mengkafiri Ku. Allah akan menggantikan makanan dan minuman yang engkau berikan kepadanya selama 70 tahun.”
Setelah menerima wahyu tersebut Nabi Ibrahim sungguh menyesal di atas tindakannya dan keesokan harinya Nabi Ibrahim Alaihissalam pergi mencari orang Majusi itu dan mempelawanya supaya sudi datang ke rumahnya sekali lagi. Kata orang Majusi itu “Pelik sungguh, semalam engkau mengusirku, tetapi hari ini engkau mengajak aku pergi ke rumahmu”. Nabi Ibrahim menceritakan tentang wahyu yang diterimanya setelah menghalau orang Majusi itu.
Orang Majusi itu berkata “Sungguh baik tuhanmu memperlakukan aku sebegini, walaupun aku ini orang kafir”. Orang Majusi itu berkata lagi “Hulurlah tanganmu, (sambil berjabat tangan) aku bersaksi bahawa tiada tuhan yang lain melainkan Allah dan engkau adalah pesuruh Allah”. Semenjak dari itu orang Majusi itu mengikuti ajaran Nabi Ibrahim Alaihissalam.
Alangkah hinanya agensi tersebut membiarkan Gereja memberi makan orang Islam walaupun mereka tergulung orang yg buat maksiat.
Bagaimana pula mereka yg kata ” kamu x leh panggil Tuhan yang menciptakan kamu dan alam semesta ” Allah” kerana kamu bukan orang Islam,nanti orang Melayu confuse?
JMD : Sayang sekali saudara masih tidak mahu mengerti akan intipati artikel ini. Sila baca keseluruhannya semula dan sila baca ruangan komentar. People are already tired flogging a dead horse. Soalan terakhir saudara telah pun diulas dan dibicarakan. Terima kasih.
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JMD. X dapat dinafikan you memang hebat, boleh tahu siapa yang Ikhlas atau x ikhlas.
Sempat refer makna ikhlas
Ikhlas kepada Allah subhanahu wata’ala maknanya seseorang bermaksud melalui ibadahnya tersebut untuk ber-taqarrub (mendekatkan diri) kepada Allah subhanahu wata’ala dan mendapatkan keridhaanNya.
Bila seorang hamba menginginkan sesuatu yang lain melalui ibadahnya, maka di sini perlu dirinci lagi berdasarkan klasifikasi-klasifikasi berikut:
Pertama, dia memang ingin ber-taqarrub kepada selain Allah di dalam ibadahnya ini dan mendapatkan pujian semua makhluk atas perbuatannya tersebut. Maka, ini menggugurkan amalan dan termasuk syirik.
Di dalam hadits yang shahih dari Abu Hurairah rodhiallaahu’anhu bahwasanya Nabi shollallaahu’alahi wasallam bersabda, “Allah subhanahu wata’ala berfirman,
أَنَا أَغْنَى الشُّرَكَاءِ عَنِ الشِّرْكِ، مَنْ عَمِلَ عَمَلاً أَشْرَكَ فِيْهِ مَعِي غَيْرِيْ تَرَكْتُهُ وَشِرْكَهُ.
“Aku adalah Dzat Yang paling tidak butuh kepada persekutuan para sekutu; barangsiapa yang melakukan suatu amalan yang di dalamnya dia mempersekutukanKu dengan sesuatu selainKu, maka Aku akan meninggalkannya beserta kesyirikan yang diperbuatnya.”[1]
Kedua, dia bermaksud melalui ibadahnya untuk meraih tujuan duniawi seperti kepemimpinan, kehormatan dan harta, bukan untuk tujuan ber-taqarrub kepada Allah; maka amalan orang seperti ini akan gugur dan tidak dapat mendekatkan dirinya kepada Allah subhanahu wata’ala. Dalam hal ini, Allah subhanahu wata’ala berfirman,
مَن كَانَ يُرِيدُ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا نُوَفِّ إِلَيْهِمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ فِيهَا وَهُمْ فِيهَا لاَ يُبْخَسُونَ
أُوْلَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ لَيْسَ لَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ إِلاَّ النَّارُ وَحَبِطَ مَا صَنَعُواْ فِيهَا وَبَاطِلٌ مَّا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ
“Barangsiapa menghendaki kehidupan dunia dan perhiasannya, niscaya Kami berikan kepada mereka balasan pekerjaan mereka di dunia dengan sempurna dan mereka di dunia itu tidak akan dirugikan. Itulah orang-orang yang tidak memperoleh di akhirat kecuali neraka dan lenyaplah di akhirat itu apa yang telah mereka usahakan di dunia dan sia-sialah apa yang telah mereka kerjakan.” (Hud: 15-16).
JMD : Thank you for the comment and the link. Now, continue to reflect back on your previous comment where you continued slandering people without any remorse. Even after the slander had been rebutted a couple of times.
From that comment, people already knew the lack of sincerity in your tone.
And we do not need to have a PHD in order to determine whether someone is sincere or not.
Berapa banyak kali kita boleh mengetahui kejujuran seseorang itu berdasarkan kata-kata dan kelakuannya? Banyak kali bukan?
Usahlah kita hendak mendabik dada mencanang sana sini akan betapa bagusnya amalan kita tetapi dalam masa yang sama, menulis perkara perkara yang tidak betul dan salah sama sekali.
Terima kasih.
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JMD
What say U?
Church gets OK for judicial review on use of word ‘Allah’
KUALA LUMPUR: The Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur succeeded in obtaining leave for judicial review over the use of the word “Allah” in the Catholic weekly, Herald.
Judge Lau Bee Lan issued the order in her chambers yesterday after meeting all parties involved.
She also set May 28 for the hearing of the stay against the decision by the Home Ministry.
On Jan 7, the ministry had set a condition that the archbishop was prohibited from using the word “Allah” in the publication.
On Feb 16, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur, Tan Sri Murphy Pakiam, filed an application for a judicial review.
The archbishop, as publisher of the Herald, is the applicant in this action. The Home Ministry and the government are the first and second respondents respectively.
Among the declarations sought by the archbishop were:
– the decision by the ministry (to set condition on the use of the word “Allah”) was illegal, null and void;
– the applicant has the constitutional right to use the word “Allah” in the Herald;
– the Printing Presses and Publications Act 1984 does not empower and or authorise the respondents to prohibit the applicant from using the word “Allah” in the publication; and
– the word “Allah” is not exclusive to Islam.
Counsel S. Selvarajah and Derek Fernandez appeared for the archbishop while Senior Federal Counsel Suzana Atan represented the respondents.
JMD : We shall wait for May 28th then for their application to be reviewed. What is there to comment? It is good that the judiciary system provides avenues for any parties to submit their application. Both sides then need to prepare their arguments, refutations and rebuttals for the hearing. What do you think about this issue? Are you one of the team members helping the Herald or are you helping the seven Islamic Religious Councils, Malaysian Gurdwara Association and Malaysian Chinese Muslim Association? Thank you.
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JMD,
How about this ?
“First we see the identical prononciation in Scripture:
The word for God in Genesis 1:1 is elohim, which is essentially a plural form of a more basic root-Hebrew word for God, (eloh).
Furthermore, the Arabic translation of the Jewish Bible uses the name “Allah” to refer to God in Genesis 1:1
” Fee al-badi’ khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . .”
Genesis 1:1 – in Arabic”
more at site below:
http://jews-for-allah.org/Why-Believe-in-Allah/Allah-inthe-Jewish-Bible.htm
JMD : Sorry mate, the original word that Malay used for God is not Allah, but Tuhan. It is the original word used by the Malays as ‘Tuhan’, even before the arrival of Islam here in Tanah Melayu prior to the 14th century. Thank you.
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JMD
Cuba U mengucap tenguk!!!
Bukankah orang Melayu mengucap berbunyi ” Aku naik saksi bahawa tiada Tuhan yang di sembah kecuali Allah”
Cuba U ceritakan bagaimana orang Melayu mengucap sebelum kurun ke 14?
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/26676-influential-scholar-urges-muslims-to-shed-victim-role
JMD : Terima kasih keran kembali lagi. Sebelum kedatangan Islam di bumi Tanah Melayu apada kurun ke 13, orang Melayu kebanyakkanya beragama Hindu atau menganut ‘paganisme’. Dalam pada masa yang sama, mereka bertutur di dalam bahasa Melayu. Sebab itu, perkataan asal untuk ‘God’ bagi orang Melayu adalah ‘Tuhan’. ;Tuhan’ adalah bahasa sebenar untuk ‘God’ bagi orang Melayu. ‘Allah’ adalah nama Tuhan untuk orang Melayu Islam. Ustaz Maza sudah pun berkali kali menerangkan bahawa orang Kristian tidak boleh menggunakan ganti nama Allah untuk majalah mereka. Nik Aziz juga berkata begitu. Kenapa saudara ingin menegakkan benang basah lagi? Bukankah kita sudah berbincang mengenai perkara ini? Sila lihat semula diskusi di dalam ruang komentar di atas. Terima kasih.
p.s: Orang Melayu mengucap,’ Aku naik saksi bahawa tiada Tuhan yang di sembah melainkan Allah’. Mereka tidak mengucap “Aku naik saksi bahawa tiada Allah yang di sembah kecuali Allah.” Betul?
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Pingback: The Remains of St. Paul Found - Christianity - Page 3 - City-Data Forum
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Dear reader,
I believe every religion on earth has their own identity for who they are and belive for, and this identity is very important for each religion.As for me personal i think that we must not confuse or globalise the religion. Even as a Name in the bible represent the person itself, and God in the bible revealed Himself through His Name. When God in the Bible revealed Himself to Moses, and Moses was at that moment afraid that people of Israel would not belive him that God has send him to them, and God Said to Moses;..” Just say to them THAT I AM has send you ” … i think, We must respect every conviction, belive or faith of every human being on earth.
With alot of respect, let every religion has their own name of their own god in whom their belive for….
Thank you..!
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Why are you all very stupid?
There is definitely ulterior motive in this name change. Because the “not-so-good” muslims or the young ones will be confused by the Muslim “Allah” and the christian “Allah” because the christian “Allah” has a son and the trinity concept
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Christian who want to use ‘allah’ in their bible, article, and worship shop is NOT a true christian.
Christian is suppose to worship ONLY 1 God whose Name is Yahweh.
Christian is NOT western religion.
Christian is a BRANCH of Jewish Religion.
When you translated hebrew Yahweh into arabic,
you won’t get ‘allah’.
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Malaysia is quite unique, from the billons of RM going down the drain in BMf Finance, BBMB, Perwaja and the latest PKFZ truly are world class corruption. And now, changing the name of christian god to Allah… another world class issue, although christians in other parts of the world couldn’t care less what their god’s name is, whether to call lord or Allah.
From logic thinking, we can only think of the mafia or some secret society changing their leader’s name. To these people their leader is their god, because doing anything that displeases their leader means death – mati katak!
These secret societies and mafia gangs operate like a cult, they worship their leader, and when the former leader dies, he will be replaced, so the name is changed.
But in religion, changing names of god doesn’t sound right at all. Does that mean those christians who died earlier had worshipped the wrong god? Because the name was not right! Because before this they were praying and calling a different god’s name! This is NOT funny, man!
Changing of god’s name will sort of equate the followers of this big religion to those of mafia gangs or cult followers like the KKK or Yakuza. If what I say is not right, why then those christians in other parts of the world not changing their god’s name? Does this mean the christians in Malaysia and the rest of the world are different? Do they have different god? Or are the followers in Malaysia acting just like secret society with ulterior motives?
Because by calling their god Allah they will confuse the Muslim youngs who also call their God Allah. But the christian allah have trinity concept, while the Muslim’s Allah is singular. THis confusion will corrupt the young minds at early age, they will think the two are similar and they will think both faiths are worshipping the same God but actually they are worlds apart!
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Salam
Semuga kita sama sama mengunakan kesempatan ini untuk meningkatkan usaha untuk menerangkan kepada dunia siapa Allah sebenarnya.
Sekurang kurangnya kita kongsikan ayat ayat berikut kepada kekawan Islam dan belum Islam
3:64 (Malay) “Katakanlah: “”Hai Ahli Kitab, marilah (berpegang) kepada suatu kalimat (ketetapan) yang tidak ada perselisihan antara kami dan kamu, bahwa tidak kita sembah kecuali Allah dan tidak kita persekutukan Dia dengan sesuatu pun dan tidak (pula) sebagian kita menjadikan sebagian yang lain sebagai tuhan selain Allah. Jika mereka berpaling maka katakanlah kepada mereka: “”Saksikanlah, bahwa kami adalah orang-orang yang berserah diri (kepada Allah)””.”
Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to a common word between us and you: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside God. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him). (Aal ‘Imran 3:64)
5:17 (Malay) “Sesungguhnya telah kafirlah orang-orang yang berkata: “”Sesungguhnya Allah itu ialah Al Masih putra Maryam””. Katakanlah: “”Maka siapakah (gerangan) yang dapat menghalang-halangi kehendak Allah, jika Dia hendak membinasakan Al Masih putra Maryam itu beserta ibunya dan seluruh orang-orang yang berada di bumi semuanya?”” Kepunyaan Allah-lah kerajaan langit dan bumi dan apa yang di antara keduanya; Dia menciptakan apa yang dikehendaki-Nya. Dan Allah Maha Kuasa atas segala sesuatu.”
Al-Ma’idah (The Table Spread)
5:17 (Y. Ali) In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.”
As exclaimed by Moses (pbuh): “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.” Deuteronomy 6:4.
“I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God.”
Isaiah 45:5.
“You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God.”
Exodus 20:3-5
Jesus Christ (pbuh) said the following in the Bible:
“This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”
John 17:3
“How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?”
John 5:44
“The most important commandments,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, is one Lord’”
Mark 12:29
As described by Paul in his Letter to Timothy:
“Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.”
1 Timothy 1:17
“Ekam evadvitiyam“
(He (God) is One only without a second.)
Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1
Meaning in English: “Sages (learned Priests) call one God by many names.“
Rigveda 1:164:46
“Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata“
(O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone.)
Rigveda 8:1:1
“Ekam Brahm, dvitiya naste neh na naste kinchan“
(There is only one God, not the second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit.)
Brahma Sutra of Hinduism
“Ek Onkar, Sat Naam, Karta Purakh, Nirbhau Nirvair, Akal Murat, Ajuni, Saibham, Gurprasad”
(There exists but one God, who is called The True, The Creator, Free from fear and hate, Immortal, Not begotten, Self-Existent, Great and Compassionate.)
Granth Sahib, Mulmantra Pg.1
Meaning in English: “There is only the One Supreme Lord God; there is no other at all.”
Granth Sahib, Pg. 45
Meaning in English: “God is merciful and infinite. The One and Only is all-pervading.”
Granth Sahib, Pg. 710
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Allah, God, Lord, Tuhan, Shiva, Neptune, Mercury, Jesus, Venus..etc. What is the differences? The God who commands vs the god who interferes.
A Muslim believe:-
1. To believe in the existence of God and Allah is the true GOD.
2. To believe in God’s angels, (ie. Inclusive of the Satan, or Dark angels, Genies which is classified under makhluk halus or “creatures unseen by the naked eyes”.
3. To believe in the Holy Qur’an and the other Holy Books, (Torah, the Gospel of Jesus, the Psalms of David)
4. To believe in God’s Messengers, of whom Adam was the first and the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was the last
5. To believe in the Resurrection and the Day of Judgment
6. To believe in Divine Preordainment (Qadak & Qadar).
From the above it clearly states that Allah commands but God / Gods / Goddess interact. Mortal beings interact with Allah thru his messenger or Angels which is classfied under “unseen creatures”. A God that interacts are in the form of Jesus, Shiva, Neptune, Venus, Dewa- dewa etc… whereby a God that commands is only Allah. So is there a similarity between God that commands vs God that interferes? Gods true love is shown when he show himself in the form of a creature and an unknown God is Allah since he exists but not in any form and does not interact with mortals.
The question is how do we believe in someone which we are unknown off? That has no form, that has no interaction to civilisation, that has no children, that has unknown existence and of unknown place or location? Well, that is faith.
Do you think Allah will be happy if his name is been utilised by all races and religion? Will he stop the Muslim community that he wants his name to be glorified by other form of worship? Should we draw a line the differences in the word God, Tuhan & Allah?
This is indeed a mindset for all humans to understand and debate on.
JMD : What is this about God that command and God that interferes? In Islam there is no such thing. There is only one Allah the Almighty. It’s a concept called Tauhid. Thank you.
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See what happen now…. the militants have torched some churches… nak salahkan siapa? Sebab orang2 kristian dah mula tunjuk belang, kurang ajar dan tak hormat pada sensitiviti org Islam. These points are worth pondering;
1. Kenapa nama Allah hanya akan digunakan untuk
publication Mlayu sahaja?
2. Why the name change only happen in Malaysia why not
all over the world?
3. If the christian god’s name is changed to Allah NOW,
what happen to those christians who had died, were
they worshipping the wrong god’s name or what? Will
they be punished for that?
4. What kind of god will change His name as He likes?
5. What sort of religion has a god that changes the name?
This sounds more like a cult or mafia rather than religion!
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Dr Dzulkefly Ahmad is a member of the PAS central working committee and MP of Kuala Selangor.
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JAN 8 – There is no denying the fact that the controversial Allah issue has the propensity to causing turbulence, even if some may deem it a non-issue. Hence to say that the now infamous High Court’s ruling on usage of “Allah” is a potential time bomb threatening the country’s social fabric, is indeed an understatement!
When this writer came into the meeting room for the PAS Central Political Bureau in the PAS headquarters in Jalan Raja Laut on Monday night, January 4, that thought haunted him.
Worse still there are many others most willing to jump into the ‘siege-mentality’ bandwagon. Expectedly the ruling had triggered a deluge of Malay-Muslim into angry protestors, mostly perceived as Umno-backed groups. They have threatened to hold mass demonstrations although a stay of execution filed by the Home Ministry has been granted. The 1-Malaysia-PM most irresponsibly and regrettably has consented to that and his Home Minister most willing to be his best lap-dog.
Understandably, this writer’s anxiety in attending the PAS’ Central Political Bureau was beyond description. He was surer of what he didn’t want, as what he wanted has been made known earlier and has somewhat already ruffled feathers in the party.
The calamity that may befall PAS flew in the face. He feared that PAS might joined hands with the rest of the disgruntled to oppose the High Court decision and insisting that Allah is exclusively the God of the Muslims, hence outlawing others its usage.
He feared that PAS will be trapped in the machination of Umno and that would be the end of “PAS for All”. While it is admittedly true that PAS is in acute need of the Malay-Muslims votes all the more now than before, PAS must not succumb to the temptation of appeasing Malay-Muslims constituency merely for votes, much worse, hands in gloves with its political nemesis, Umno. The signs of late, are not to be taken frivolously.
Regardless, he wanted the decision of ‘permissibility of the usage of the name of Allah’ be firstly based on principles and later to be contextualized to the political and social realities of the Malaysian demography ie the plural and mixed make-up of our society.
The writer fully understood that the debate is as acrimonious and as precarious as PAS’ available options. But by God’s grace and guidance, Alhamdulillah, PAS’ stance on the issue is now clear and unequivocal. He surely couldn’t narrate of what really happened in the 3 hours discussion behind closed doors. His only fear now is, ‘Can PAS remain Steadfast’ on that stance, come what may?
He now outlines the gist of the consensus. Firstly, to clarify the position of permissibility based on the provision of the Quran and its exegesis and secondly, to contextualise its application given the plural and complex multi-cultural make-up of our society. It essentially addresses an issue or policy of a government from the perspective of maintaining Maslahah Ammah or Public Interest and avoidance of Mafsadah or Disorders and Inconveniences.
The Quran has, in no uncertain terms, documented that the community during the advent of the final prophet, Muhammad (may peace be upon him) had similarly used the word “Allah”.
Allah says in the Holy Quran: “If you ask them, who it is that created the heavens and the earth, they will certainly say, “Allah”. Say: “Praise be to Allah”. But most of them understand not.
(Luqman, Chapter 31; Verse 25)
Theologically (from the perspective of Faith or Aqidah), even though the idol-worshippers of Mecca accepted Allah as Rabb (God), it is only in the domain of Allah as al-Rububiyah or Allah as the Creator and Sustainer. In the complete Islamic faith, Allah is not only the Sustainer and Creator (Tauhid Rububiyah) but as well the Law-Giver and Sovereign (Tauhid Uluhiyah), besides a myriad other attributes only worthy of the Most High. They nonetheless recognise and believe in Allah only as a Sustainer.
More explicitly of the other Abrahamic religions, the mention of the word Allah is seen in the verse in the Chapter of Hajj (Pilgrimage) verse: 40. Allah says:
“Had not Allah Check and Balance the aggression and excesses of one set or group of people by means of another, there would surely have been destruction of monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundance….” (Hajj, Chapter 22, verse 40).
From numerous other verses, it is abundantly clear, argued the ulama of exegesis (tafseer) that the name of Allah is not an exclusive right of the Muslims. Al-Qurtubi, an expert in exegesis of the Quran, concluded that in verse 40 above, Allah is not only commemorated in mosques but as well in the others places of worship of the Abrahamic faiths namely Christianity and Judaism.
It would be imperative to note of the jurisdiction of two of the most outstanding contemporary scholars in the Muslim world, namely Sheikh Dr. Yusuf al-Qaradawi and Sheikh Dr. Wahbah Az- Zuhaili who recently visited Malaysia, concerning this issue. Both were recipients of the award “Tokoh Ma’al Hijrah”, in 1431H and 1429H respectively.
Without any hesitation they concurred unequivocally that the usage of the word Allah has never been the monopoly of the Islamic creed. It is a terminology shared with the adherents of the Abrahamic faith. Islam identifies itself with the People of the Book as the ‘Abrahamic family’ within the Semitic Tradition (Hanifiyyah), the tradition of Abraham who is recognised as the father of the three Semitic religions.
The Quran is even more explicit in reminding that Muslims worship the same Almighty Allah recognized by Christians. The Qur’an commands Muslims to declare that the God they worship and the one worshiped by the followers of revealed books, including Christians, is one: “… and say: “We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit”.
(Al-Ankabut, Chapter 29: verse 46).
While it is true that they do not believe in the attributes of Allah as totally prescribed in Islam, the above reminder is nonetheless made by Allah that their God is One and the same. This is despite the fact that Christianity and Judaism are totally different Abrahamic religions in terms of articles of faith and convictions.
Hence, based on Islamic principles, Quranic text and exegesis, the use of the word Allah by the people of the other Abrahamic faiths such as Christianity and Judaism, is permissible. This is PAS’s stance as pronounced by the President.
The answer is in the definitive “Yes”. It’s truly a non-issue if only we refer to the Quran, as also exemplified by revered Ulama.
Having clarified the principle position of permissibility, the tougher question to address is the application of the principle ie in what and under what circumstances is it permissible, given the complex and plural multi-religio-racial make-up of our Malaysian society.
Incidentally, the discussion could be equally addressed from the perspective of the Federal Constitution (FC). Firstly, the Article 3(1) of the FC which assures Islam as the official religion of the Federation and other religions can be practiced in peace and harmony amply provides for the case of Catholic Church. Article 11 (1) equally provides for fundamental right of all religion to profess and practice religion of their choice.
In the propagation of the religion of the Catholic Christians, they are limited by the provision of Article 11 (4), which prohibits the propagation of Christianity to Muslims and Article 11 (5) which stipulates that the public order must be maintained.
The Catholic Herald has reassured Malaysians that the Church was not on any campaign to convert Muslims as emphasised by father Lawrence Andrew.
“There are allegations we’re trying to convert Muslims. “We’re not doing that”, he told the Malaysian Insider.
In this regard, PAS has again stressed the usage of “Allah” must not be misused or abused or it will affect racial and religious harmony in the country.
“As a responsible Islamic body, PAS is ready to explain this issue to all parties in order to ensure a harmonious environment that is based on the principles of fairness, such as is guaranteed in the Constitution and by Islam itself,” PAS president Abdul Hadi Awang said in a statement issued after the three-hour long discussion.
In this regard, the former Mufti of Perlis has also stressed the need to have clear guidelines. He said that the word “Allah” could only be used to refer to the one true God and not to be ascribed to stones and idols.
The PAS president has also called on all parties not to politicise the matter as this could threaten the peace among the different religious groups in the country.
PAS strongly objects to any aggressive and provocative approach that can lead to tension in society.
By advocating a solution of dialogue and discourse, PAS has presented herself as an Islamist party that understands the need of a plural politics in the new landscape of national politics. This is very reassuring and consoling.
To cite Tengku Razaleigh, “In a milestone moment, PAS, the Islamic party, is holding onto the more plural and moderate position while Umno is digging itself into an intolerant hard-line position that has no parallel that I know of in the Muslim world”.
The writer now concurs with the Tengku that Umno will be spurred to more desperate attempts at fanning both narrow religious and parochial racial sentiments.
PAS must hold on to its Islamic principles to stand for “Justice for All”.
Rather than championing the exclusive usage of the name of Allah for Malay-Muslims, PAS together with her Pakatan component parties must wage an all out attack on Umno on the narrow racial approach of Malay Hegemony, perversion of power, the spread of corruption, the plunder of the nation’s wealth and the repression of the people’s rights, which are all in total contradiction with and diametrically opposed to Islam.
PAS is on the right political trajectory for now but judging by the intense challenges many would like to ask, “can PAS remain steadfast”?
Allah knows best and only time will tell. Frankly, is there a choice?
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In response to “arah” writings, I would like to ask why Lawrence Andrew did not explain as to WHY he must change his god’s name to Allah now? Why only in Malaysia? Why not the change happen in USA or Europe or all over the world? Had the christians worshipped the wrong god before? If that is so, that is surely a wrong religion!
There is no need to ask PAS to be steadfast, as PAS is NOT the custodian of the Islam religion. Islam does not belong to PAS. However why the christians are not steadfast in the name of their god? Just imagine what sort of religion suka suka hati change their god’s name for no apparent reason?
Just for paying lip service, Lawrence Andrew did not say they wish to convert muslims to christians, but the usage of the name Allah has far reaching repercussions beyond our present context. When the use of name is allowed, so the name of Allah can also be written in Arabic, so it looks exactly the same as the muslim Allah. Used widely, this will cause confusion among muslims and also cause great discomfort when the name is not respected as it should!
Are the christians gone bankcrupt of ideas? Is there no other way to get cheap publicity rather than irritate the muslim people?
Just check in You tube and search “CONVERT TO ISLAM” After 9/11, in more than 5 million christians have converted to Islam in USA alone, and more are converting to Islam in Europe. Christianity’s trinity concept is dying and confusing even the christians themselves. They have a god that can die on a cross! Tell me again… god can die! And still they believe it? Are they all devoid of logic at all? Have they no brain?
While christians in USA and Europe are converting to Islam, their counterparts in Malaysia are grappling to stay afloat and resort to dirty tactics such as changing their god’s very name! That means their forefathers had all called upon the wrong god! Oh my GOD, what kind of religion is this? It is all a very big joke!
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Everything in Christianity and the bible are confusing
Matthew 23:9. Jesus said, And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.”
Mankind has been confused since the time of Paul or Saul the Murderer.
Jesus don’t even recognized his followers as Christian.
Many Christian follow the teaching of Paul instead of Jesus. They pray to Jesus instead of Almighty God the Creator.
Christian can’t even agree which bible versions to be used and which Church to go on Sunday and many don’t even go to Church.
The Christian missionaries have hijack the word Allah which mean the One and Only Almighty hundred og years ago and confused the Sabahah and Sarawakian.
The Christian missionaries have killed millions of Muslim in Philippine and just imagine all the filipino were Muslim those days but now they are coming back to Islam ” balik Islam”.
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1137511050
Christianity are so confusing especially believe in Trinity which is never the teaching of Jesus. We have to correct everyone that Allah have no son and God of the bible is not Allah because Allah explained Himself clearly in the Quran which contradict to the God of the bible.
2:255 (Y. Ali) Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
2:256 (Y. Ali) Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
Millions of American and European are leaving Christianity and in Malaysia they fighting for the word ” Allah” which mean Tuhan yang Esa not Jesus, god the son or god the father.
http://www.usislam.org/converts/converts.htm
We should welcome everyone to used the word Allah but the password is so easy.
” We believe that is no other God but Allah and we believe that Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Isa are the messengers of Allah”
Welcome my friends
Oh Allah, the Almighty God the Creator show us the truth and save us from the hell fire.
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First of all, Islam as a religion conveys 2 things..
“Allah as God ‘and’ Muhammad as Prophet..”
So, i dont really have problem with Christianity using the word Allah, coz it doesnt potray Islam.. They dont have Muhammad, which all of Muslim worlwide do..
I think its cool to have similar God’s name, it does thicken the prove that we ‘humans’ derived from the same creator…
Exclusively, Muhammad is ours.. and we believe in Jesus and respected Jesus as one of the prophet..
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the gap between one prophet to another are hundreds of years, without guidance by a prophet these people in between become lost soul. even though their names are islamic, they are paganist. this is to answer some confusion with the islamic names but a pagan.
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I think christian people should leave the name Allah to Muslims alone. We did not call to Allah all this while and it did not make any difference. If we are sincere to God, He will guide us to the true path. The purpose of religion is to live peacefully with nature and not to irritate others.
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Many christians will actually find it awkward with the idea of changing God’s name. We have been calling Lord for many, many years and are comfortable with it.
I hope the Pope will interfere and stop this madness of changing God’s very name. This is also very sensitive issue and should not be challenged openly as it will draw resentment from the Muslim public.
After the burning of churches, who knows what will be burnt next? Maybe a christian house or car, or child being kidnapped… it is all possible
I hope the christians leave this madness the sooner the better. Whatever name we call God, we must have faith in HIM alone. It is the name that matters but as supposedly religious people we christians must show good conduct and not raise the ire of others especially from different religion
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I have been calling to LORD Jesus in my prayers and until to-date I have no problem at all. I think there is no need for changing the name, I feel very uncomfortable to call the new name
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Hello
I am a muslim, and find it strange that Christians in muslim country are denied the right to use the name Allah by muslims.
To start with, Christians have used the name Allah long before Muslims. the Quran refers to the fact that Christian understanding and belief in the attributes of Allah are mistaken, but the Quran does not deny or forbid them from using the name Allah, for, according to the Quran, Christians mistake is not using the name Allah to describe the Trinity, but it is, rather, believing in a trinitarian nature of God, regardless of the name they use for HIM
For historical info on the use of the name Allah by Christians, see:
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