Pakatan Rakyat / Politics in general / Umno & Barisan Nasional

Devil’s advocate

As the Kuala Terengganu by election drawing closer, a lot had been said about the choice of candidates, the campaign of both coalitions and also the potential result of the election.

He have heard so many opinions and arguments about this by election. The forum attended by two personalities back in December set the tone of the campaign.

Husam Musa and Khairy Jamaluddin begun their quest to attain higher position in their respective party by sparring with each other.

Not much was gained from that spar except for this blogger to be the devil’s advocate and explore the issues further.

Allow me to compartmentalise those issues into two sections:

The non Malay votes in Kuala Terengganu

To me it is clear that should the non Malays vote for Mohd Abdul Wahid Endut of PAS in this by election, they are sending one more MP to the parliament that will vote for Hudud laws. With Anwar Ibrahim endorsing PAS’ stand on Hudud and publicly told Karpal Singh to shut his mouth, the minorities of this country will then have to embrace themselves with further talk on Hudud by PAS in years to come.

But please do not even think that Hudud laws will not apply to the non Malays as well. That was just one political trick of Anwar Ibrahim. Hudud, should it come into effect, will encompass the non Muslims too. If not, then Islam will not be deemed fair to their own followers.  This had been done since 1400 years ago. There must not be two sets of criminal laws in the country. Hudud is a criminal law which deals with, among others, offences like:

1) Theft (sariqa, السرقة)
2) Highway robbery (qat’ al-tariq, قطع الطريق)
3) Illegal sexual intercourse (zina’, الزناء)
4) Rebellion against the ruler (sedition or high treason)
5) Apostasy (irtidād or ridda, ارتداد) includes blasphemy

Everyone in Malaysia who committed the crimes above will be sentenced under the Hudud laws. Everyone knows about this.

Anwar Ibrahim is just trying to hoodwink the non Malays just for his own political mileage and for the sake of unity in Pakatan Rakyat.

Jebat Must Die however, as the devil’s advocate is unconcerned about Anwar’s stand. We know what Anwar Ibrahim’s political plays are. We have an encyclopedia of it.

PAS on the other hand will definitely stick to its Constitution. Especially regarding the Fasal 5 of their Perlembagaan:-

“Tujuan atau matlamat perjuangan PAS ialah memperjuangkan wujudnya di dalam negara ini sebuah masyarakat dan pemerintahan yang terlaksana di dalamnya nilai-nilai hidup lslam dan hukum-hukumnya menuju keredhaan Allah serta mempertahankan kesucian lslam, juga kemerdekaan dan kedaulatan negara.”

We know how frustrated the members of PAS had been all these years when their leaders kept on dodging the Hudud issues as their election manifesto. It is hoped that with one more PAS MP in parliament, their dream will come true. 

Therefore, it is indeed a good thing that the non Malays will vote for PAS this time around.

What do you think?

UMNO’s political stand vis-a-vis the support of non-Malays

As for Umno, it is clear that its stand of being moderate and tolerant to the non-Malays and people of other faiths in this land was not reciprocated by the very own people they protected against the religious fanaticism of PAS. Then why should Umno be made to toil and sweating itself out just to please these ungrateful people?

The minorities only make up less than 35% of the whole population. If we take into account the number of Muslims in this country, then the non-Muslims are only about 39%. With the dwindling number of non-Malays in the near future, why should Umno focus more on this people and safeguard their sensitivities? PAS had not been doing that since their inception, labelling people as infidels and preaching fanatical Islamic supremacy as the way of life for all Malaysians. And yet, they get all the support from most non-Malays since the last general election.

Isn’t it time for Umno to put on a more Islamic approach? Even Nik Aziz had once said, if Umno use Islam as the pillar of its idealogy, he will disband PAS so that all Muslims will unite under Umno.

To extrapolate further, Umno with 79 seats, in addition of PAS’ 23 seats together with PBB of Sarawak and a couple more East Malaysian parties, a true Muslim coalition can rule the country comfortably. Together with a few more Muslim MPs from PKR, Malaysia can become the next Islamic nation of the East.  

Hence, why should Umno even give a damn about the non Malays when all these while most of them spat at the party?

Therefore, as the title of this article implies, I hope Umno should become more like PAS and drop their moderate and tolerant ideology and be more Islamic. This could be a great way to increase support from the Malays AND the non-Malays. As all of us know, non-Malays are warming up to PAS anyway… regardless of their strong Islamic views.

What do you think? 

71 thoughts on “Devil’s advocate

  1. When an idea is mooted by myopic people whose sole motive is either hatred or as a result of atavistic throwback culture, then you can be sure you will come up with a ludicrous joke like this. Anyway, Pas doesn’t need Umno. So have your “pure” Islam. Pas is happy where it is. Do you remember Umno passing an amendement in its constitution barring former members who joined any other party to rejoin UMNO? And when Umno was badly mauled in March 08, they started talking about “The Ummah”. I like that sheer hypocrisy. The Ummah shoukd unite, the Ummah should come together, the Ummah should help one another. He he he! Pathetic. Why would Pas join scandalous people from top to down? If Umno and it is marauding hordes were moral and meaning, how comes they didn’t elect Tengku Ku Li as their President? Why does every clean person gets booted out? What happened to PJ Selatan Chief? The moment he talked about corruption in the top echelons of the party, he found himself out. Why would you think Pas will fall for Umno’s Islam? Or you forgot Islam is about sheer honesty and higher ideals?

    Anyway, you are very intelligent to state that Umno has 79 MPs, but you forgot that many of them are MPs because of Chinese and Indian vote. Just count the ones who can make through on their own. If Umno was honest with God, with the Malay people and with itself, all of us would have been part of it but that’s not the case. You have a party that’s scandal riddled, that thrives on primate and base politics, that practices nepotism and an unmitigated lies, divides the people, fights the good and settles for the most scandal ridden elements in its midst. Even if money was offered, pple aren’t ready for that party. Have it. Sarawak’s PBB is PBB because of non-Muslim support. Malays and Melanuas form 27% of the whole of sarawak, how many of them can make it? And anyway, who told you Islam is about discriminating against others and subjugating to them? You like to eat their sweat but you have no qualms about isolating for petty reasons. Islam is big and can accomodate them while they remain non-Muslims. At least try other ideas to revive your party. Pas is happy where it is and where it is going to. You say people are becoming more islamic, let’s join that euphoria and then we ignore non-Muslims or their support. Pas is not about that neither does it need hypocrites who run to it for political expediency. Thanks. I never imagined there will be a day when Umnoputras start looking for an exit having failed in all their despicable endevours. God is great.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. It seems that some people do not know what ‘devil’s advocate’ means.

    It means, a person who advocates an opposing or unpopular view, often for the sake of argument or someone who takes a position, sometimes one he or she disagrees with, for the sake of argument.

    It does not mean I necessarily agree with what I wrote. I purposely wrote those two issues to gain feedback, to test the quality of that argument and to identify weaknesses in the opposing views. Above all, I’m out to prove a point.

    What point is that? That most of the PAS members, have this holier than thou attitude towards their fellow Muslims. They would embrace their non Muslim friends more readily than their Muslims counterparts. Basically, it is better to be united with DAP or PKR than with Umno. Eventhough Umno is a fellow muslim party.

    BAsically, they do not want to unite eventhough they are the one preaching about Islam’s solidarity.

    And to think PAS members would say that, and I quote ‘who told you Islam is about discriminating against others?’ and ‘Islam is big and can accomodate them while they remain non-Muslims’ (but they can’t accomodate fellow Muslims?). Sheer hypocrisy and truly myopic! Eh, wait a minute.. that’s what you called me earlier…

    By the way, atavistic throwback culture? Hmm.. can you please give some examples?

    Please do not kid yourself in saying that Umno, ONLY after march 08 had started to talk about ‘Ummah’. Where had you been all these years? The talk about kesejahteraan Ummah had been one of the agenda of Umno all these years. And you rely your argument purely on its constitution? Bear in mind, Ibrahim Ali went in and out Umno numerous times in the past. Only recently we had several people joining Umno from PKR too.

    And you would disapprove Malay unity (my argument) just because you think Umno is corrupt? You mean to say all the 3.5 million members of Umno are corrupt? Then why through all these years PAS accepted the membership of Umno members in hundreds of occasions? I quote what you said ‘Why would Pas join scandalous people from top to down?’

    Contradictions will make you lose integrity and show how desperate and hypocrite you are. You even said Islam is about honesty and higher ideals!

    You said Tengku Razaleigh should be elected as President because you think he is of high morals. Are you being honest there? Abdullah, do not write things that you do not know! And you further said that Captain Zahar was accepted by PAS because he is clean and And you think Capt Zahar had no ulterior motives?

    Abdullah, I am only extrapolating the scenario through advocating the idea what others had toyed with. Even RPK mentioned time and time again in Malaysia Today that Muslims should not be worried because they have 120+ MPs in the Parliament. I wrote forth the arguments what RPK had postulated in the past. Even Nasharuddin Mat Isa met PAk Lah several times to discuss about this idea. And not to mention several instances in the past where PAS and Umno leaders get together to discuss about Malay unity. Ultimately those ideas were shot down by the extremists and religious fanatics in PAS. Why?

    The asnwer lies in this most preposterous statement (and the mother of all arrogance) that you made – ‘Why would you think Pas will fall for Umno’s Islam?

    There you go, the remnants of the religious fanaticism era is creeping out again. Umno members are kafir right? That’s why PAS can never work together with Umno. Eventhough 99% of Umno members are Muslims (like PAS) and follow the same Mazhab (like PAS), Umno members religion is less tolerable than the people of other faiths!

    Holier than thou attitude at the most extreme! I can smell desperation in your comment Abdullah, just by putting into perspective things which are obvious in nature. You are desperate that non-Malays might take stock for a minute to evaluate my article.

    You said ‘Pas is not about that neither does it need hypocrites who run to it for political expediency’. Well that’s true! They have their own hypocrites to run for its political expediency!

    Do not preach if you cannot hold your own argument. Thank you.

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  2. JMD,

    UMNO wrong choice of candidate , Rakyat is giving the body language, KT need some body from Islamic background as their MP.

    JMD : You may be correct in several occasion there. But ultimately Pak Lah is to be blamed for handicapping BN with his choice of candidate. Thank you for the comment.

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  3. cheap shot la jebat

    murah sangat…..tak macam artikel sebelum2 ni yang ada sikit umph

    cukuplah umno nak bodohkan rakyat malaysia……ramai sangat yang dah bodoh……kesianlah terutamanya kat orang melayu……ramai sangat yang dah jadi bodoh…..takkan orang cina pun korang nak bodohkan…………habis lingkup malaysia nanti

    JMD : Wah, terima kasih kerana kata artikel saya sebelum ini ada sedikit ‘umph’!🙂

    Tetapi saudara ajip tolonglah beri komen komen yang ada ‘umph’ di sini supaya kita boleh berdiskusi bersama. Cuba beritahu sedikit bagaimana saya memperbodohkan orang cina dalam artikel saya ini ya? Dan bagaimana ianya boleh melingkupkan Malaysia. Terima kasih.

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  4. Years ago I told a senior Gerakan leader’s daughter that I din vote for Shahrizat.
    She told me, “She (Shahrizat) doesn’t need your vote.”
    Pretty much sums up the attitude of Barisan/UMNO/etc before March 8.
    I guess Shahrizat if she stands again will need every vote…..
    “The minorities only make up less than 35% of the whole population. ”
    That is a lot…..It’s not the same as saying the Indians only make up about 7 percent so they should really shut up sometimes.
    35 percent is close to half….If not for Projek IC, maybe even half…
    To me, hudud is a non-issue as our judiciary is so corrupt and another legal system may be better.
    Cheers.

    JMD : True, hence that was why we always condemn Umno and Barisan Nasional since 3 years ago. We offered solutions and criticised them constructively on how they should change their deteriorating attitude. Jed, I think if we look at most parliamentary composition in the rural areas (which incidentally form the bulk of seats in Parliament and State Assembly), I am sure Malay votes count more than 70% of each seat.

    Of course the non Malays in urban area count more in each seat (some reaching 50 – 60%) but ultimately, my argument ihere s to inherently say that should Umno and PAS able to unite the Malay under one umbrella, that party should not have any problems to gain a enough seats in Parliament to form a government through Malay votes alone. That was my argument which I wish to challenge myself.

    Being a devil’s advocate is sometimes fun!🙂

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  5. Salam JMD,

    Satu-satunya kerusi ADUN yang dimenangi BN adalah kawasan Bandar dengan majoriti 1142. 3 lagi kerusi ADUN didalam P36 dimenangi PAS. Dengan majoriti kemenangan BN di Parlimen KT hanya 628, bolehlah dianggap undi BN di kawasan Bandar banyak membantu kemenangan BN semasa PRU 12. Jika diandai undi PAS tidak berubah kali ini, dan jika PAS dapat mempengaruhi kaum Cina yang kebanyakkannya dikawasan Bandar, kemungkinan PAS akan menang PRK ini nanti.

    Makanya Anwar dengan topguns DAP setibanya di KT terus mengempur kawasan ‘chinatown’ Kampung Cina kemarin. Dan saya yakin ucapan Anwar berkenaan ‘Hudud hanya untuk orang Islam’ diucap ketika itu – semasa berdepan kaum cina, semata2 untuk meraih sokongan mereka. Dikatakan ramai yang ‘teruja’ ketika bersalaman dengan anwar, tak tahulah kesannya pada undi mereka nanti.

    hanya untuk berkongsi pengalaman – Satu perkara yang amat saya terkilan ketika hari penamaan calon, terdapat sebilangan ahli Pas (saya dah confirmkan memang mereka ahli Pas) yang membawa bendera Dap. Sedih rasanya.. Bendera parti merupakan satu simbol perjuangan dan dengan membawa bendera Dap semasa perarakan ‘rasmi’, ahli2 Pas tersebut seolah2 membawa sama perjuangan Dap ( No to Islam ) !

    Ada yang jawab, ‘orang suruh bawa, saya bawa jelah’ dan yang best ‘siapa yang sama2 menentang Umno adalah sahabat kita’ . Ramai ahli Pas yang percaya mereka (Pas) hanya mempergunakan Dap sahaja untuk menang dalam perjuangan menentang musuh Islam (Umno) jadi kira ‘bohong sunat’. Ini alasan mereka bekerjasama dengan Dap, seolah2 menghalalkan kerjasama tersebut. Berbeza dengan Umno yang pada mereka tidur sebantal dengan kafir ( parti bukan Melayu ). Pening juga mulanya nak memikirkan logik alasan tersebut tapi jika meletakkan diri kita ditempat mereka, barulah faham. The key word is taksub.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. Saya ni bukanlah taksub sangat dengan PAS ataupun dengan Umno. Tetapi permainan politik PAS memang sudah kita ketahui. Permainan politik Umno pun kita sudah ketahui juga. Dah nak kalah teruk pun masih nak berpolitik, berpuak puak dan ‘scheming’ antara satu sama lain dengan niat untuk menjatuhkan dan memburukkan orang orang tertentu.

    Pada hemat saya, lebih baik Wan Farid kalah. Dan bukan sahaja kalah sedikit, malah kalah teruk. Bukan kerana saya sayang PAS atau benci Umno tetapi kerana saya tahu ada permainan kotor disebalik perlantikan Wan Farid sebagai calon di situ. Saya juga berharap mereka yang berkepentingan disebalik kemenangan (jika menang) Wan Farid akan tidak dapat melunaskan niat jahat mereka.

    To me, I am choosing the lesser evil instead of the far greater evil lurking at the corner. Memang sedih jika BN kalah di situ. Tetapi BN akan kalah lebih teruk di masa akan datang jika Wan Farid menang di KT.

    Terima kasih.

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  6. May 13th. Chinese Version is being planned. Stay tuned.

    JMD : Really? Have you got enough recruits? Can I join in?🙂 Why just advertise here? Why don’t you create your own website and recruit more chinese people from there…

    Freedom of expression what… and freedom to do everything. And all this comes from the minute I argued that non Malays should vote for PAS this time around.

    Should we then abolish ISA because of this statement by Luke Siaw? Surely we do not want these type of people to be hampered by the ISA in planning this extra curricular activities…

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  7. Spot on,Bro.I am with you on this.Anwar is very excited again,he is again screaming wanting to take over the Federal government.Even if UMNO lose this seat he is no where nearer Putrajaya.

    I think the Malays in KT should wake up and see what Anwar and PAS is all about.How come PAS and DAP which they called Kafirs before is now sleeping in the same bed.

    JMD : Thank you Hantu Laut for the comment.

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  8. Dear JMD,
    I agree that if the constitution allows HUDUD to be the country’s criminal law, then it should be applied to all in Malaysia–irrespective of race and religion. But the irony is most of the corrupted people in Malaysia are Malays. Most of the rapists–in fact child and incest rapists are Malays. Most of the snatch thieves are Malays. Most of the mat rempits are Malays. Most of the prostitutes in the red light district are Malays. Most of the pondans in the red light district areas are Malays. Most of the drug addicts are Malays and the list can go on and on. If HUDUD is implemented then what will be the dilemma of the Malays–if they repent and refrain from the above activities then it is fine, if not what is the consequence– a lot of the body parts chopped off and you can see public caning and stone throwing on 3/4 buried human beings being stoned to death and I dare say most of the victims will be Malays. With this scenario, the UMNO politicians will be in the fore front to oppose vehemently HUDUD. As for the opposition, we will wait for them to form a govt with 2/3 majority–then they can talk of HUDUD.

    JMD : Thank you Andipool. To a certain extent, I agree with the first half of your assessment. But you are saying that if most victims are Malays, then Umno will oppose Hudud. This where the logic escapes you. Hudud will be implemented if there are more than 2/3 majority agree to it. To even see people had their hands chopped off or other forms of punishment under the Hudud laws would mean that, Umno and PAS, together with a few other small parties had passed that law in Parliament. How can Umno oppose Hudud when in fact it had agreed to it (if Umno is more Islamic than now)?

    Sorry, opposition (the current PR) will never implement Hudud even if they gain 2/3 majority. Too many opposing ideologies in it.

    Secondly, you are saying that when we implement Hudud which is applied to all Malaysians, only Malays have that dilemma (of having too many criminals – and so you said) because most Malays will be prosecuted under that law.

    But what if there are few hundreds Chinese or Indians or Kadazans that committed those crime? You think there are no rapists or armed robbers among them? How would you react if you have cousins that will be punished under Hudud if the Malays got united and decided to implement the Hudud?

    These are the questions that you need to ponder also. It is not just Malay issues. It’s Malaysian issues. You need to put more thought than this.

    Lastly, if PAS, as a member of Pakatan Rakyat can never implement Hudud, why are they still shouting about this rhetorical ideology?

    Thank you.

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  9. Gee, interesting questions.

    Non-Malays warming up to PAS, as they would to other opposition parties because their own party (MIC especially) is useless. To them, the current administration sucks. Its the same scenario as March 8 last year. (Remember an Indian girl stood on PAS ticket?).

    But are they seeing that the Pakatan is in a big mess now? That is the question I’d like an answer to.

    JMD : Hmmm.. I’d like the asnwer of that question too. But in any case, most members of the Pakatan Rakyat and their followers cannot see through the smokescreen that the Pakatan Rakyat can easily be unravelled by simply questioning their respective ideologies.

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  10. JMD,

    You said”

    Therefore, as the title of this article implies, I hope Umno should become more like PAS and drop their moderate and tolerant ideology and be more Islamic. This could be a great way to increase support from the Malays AND the non-Malays. As all of us know, non-Malays are warming up to PAS anyway… regardless of their strong Islamic views.

    What do you think? “”

    You are right in your observation although non-malays did vote for PAS due to their disgust with Pak Lah led UMNO/BN, rather than endorsing their ‘Islamic’ stance, which was conveniently forgotten and put under wraps for the benefit of electoral gains.

    I am certainly not one of those non-malay in that category. I am no expert in Hudud, however I do know that there are grave implications to non-malays even if it is only applicable to muslims. Our lives are interwined and I do have muslim, Christian and Buddist relatives, some of whom are my first cousins and they are certainly not in favour of hudud.

    Malaysians ‘mudah lupa’ and too emotional to the extend that rational thinking has gone down the drain in the last few years. That sums up everything. This section of non-malays appear not to appreciate history and have been truly ungrateful.

    Whatever PAS , DAP and Anwar spoke for years, months, weeks and even days ago have been conveniently forgotten.

    Read this, from NST today,
    http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/National/2447801/Article/index_html

    and this,

    http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Letters/2447235/Article/index_html

    How contradicting they can be and yet gullible malaysians still believe them. The day that non-malays would realise their fallacies will come but I fear it will be too late.

    Regards
    http://balankumarpremakumaran.blogspot.com/

    JMD : Thank you for that link! I had been looking for it earlier. What Karpal had said would simply kill off any crossover ideas Anwar is propagating. Hence, Karpal (the DAP) just put the brakes and shattered the dream of Anwar in becoming the Prime Minister in the near future.

    As we may know now, Anwar no longer have the moral conviction to promise the rakyat about potential froggies jumping over to their side.

    Thank you Balan.

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  11. JMD, just some questions and remarks.

    If I am not mistaken, during the prophet times, it was agreed that the jews got sentenced according to the jewish religion. I remember reading about a sahabat who mastered the language of the jew so that he can advise the prophet whether a jew was appropriately sentenced according to their own law. This appears to me that the non-muslim are not subjected to the Islamic law.

    If it is so stated in our holy book that there should be 4 credible witnesses to an act of zina, can this requirement be set aside because we have non-muslim in this country? That will appear as if God’s law is irrelevant in the present times as oppose to the belief that the Quran is valid until to the end of the world.

    Is there any hope that we will sincerely try to follow the Islamic law instead of taking the comfort of our multi-religious society or does this mean we can rest easily without worrying about the fardhu kifayah on upholding those things required by the Quran?

    JMD : Thank you for the remarks. Indeed, there are a lot of questions to be answered. I can’t speak on behalf of the Jews of those times, but I believe then, the punishments metted out by the Jewish unto its people are very similar to the ones in Hudud. They do have stoning people to death etc. I am not sure from where you get your reading from but I will take it as it is eventhough we cannot verify the authenticity of that story.

    But I believe, in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Hudud laws are implemented to all of its citizens. Even the non Muslims. Thank you.

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  12. Salam.

    You’re damn right ! UMNO must stop being a chicken. Being a country with a 67% Muslim population, All muslim political leaders must unite under one coalition.

    Unless they have other agendas such as money, money and money.

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  13. Hi JMD

    Nak tergelak pun ada bila baca article JMD kali ni. Nampak sangat JMD nak menakut-nakutkan org bukan Melayu supaya tak sokong PR. Obvious sangat lah, not your usual more subtle style. Nak kata desperate pun ada, tapi kenapa pulak nak desperate? It’s only one parliamentary seat. Even if PR forms the govt, don’t they need 2/3 majority to amend the constitution if they want to implement Hudud law? In this country, mana diorang nak cari 2/3 majority tu, even if PKR and UMNO sokong PAS the numbers still won’t be enough. It’ll never happen lah. Sorry but I have to agree with RPK on this one. Just do the math.

    JMD : Ah, thank you for the comment. At least somebody realised without me stating my true intention of writing this article on how ludicrous PAS’ struggle in Pakatan Rakyat to implement Hudud. By your own argument, you have effectively exposing PAS’ modus operandi by hoodwinking its own supporters into believing that they are trying to establish an Islamic country with Hudud laws as one of the laws of the land.

    So what can we derive from Joe’s comment above (bear in mind, Joe is PR supporter)? He trivialised PAS’ own ideology by saying that it will not happen but at the same time believe PAS’ promises to implement Hudud. Hence, his vote for PAS. Bear in mind, to vote for PAS simply means, you agree towards its ideology.

    Hence, the stark contradiction there. But they seemed not to be perturbed with this contrasting situation. Their leaders are confused, and their supporters cannot see the blatant lies pushed down their throats.

    RPK is right in one aspect – yes do the math. The opposition can never implement Hudud with the current set up. But why do the supporters of PAS let their leaders be in an opposition coalition that will not be the best avenue to implement Hudud? Wouldn’t it be better if they combine with Umno in order to have a better chance of implementing it?

    Yes, it seems that this is not my ususal style of writing. This is a reverse psychology article just to expose a few things.🙂

    I am not desperate in trying to intimidate the non Malays not to vote for PAS, in fact, I am trying to make them see what PAS stands for (of lack of thereof).

    To vote for PAS instead of voting for the more moderate Umno?

    By the way, I am rooting for PAS to win this by election though! Go PAS!🙂

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  14. Tiada jalan untuk UMNO untuk jadi macam PAS. UMNO telah dijangkiti virus keselesaan. Yang direbutkan di dalam UMNO ialah projek dan puterinya. Banyak yang tidak mahu aktif dalam UMNO kerana tidak sanggup bersekongkol dengan kejahatan-kejahatan yang nyata itu. Dengan sedikit akal, manusia akan dapat membuat pertimbangan bahawa terlalu banyak kejahatan di dalam UMNO pada masa kini.

    Dalam masa yang sama, virus itu telah merebak ke dalam PAS, terutama melalui ahli UMNO yang berpaling tadah kepada PAS seperti Kapt (B) Zahar yang masuk PAS di PJS. Seharusnya PAS PJS di bawah pimpinan Ustaz Ghazali lebih berhati-hati dengan tindak tanduk pengikut PAS di sana yang ghairah menjadikan Kapt (B) Zahar) sebagai lubuk emas untuk mereka.

    JMD : Apa yang penting dan perlu diiktiraf bersama adalah, kebanyakkan pemimpin tertinggi Umno sudah lupa daratan dan mengabaikan tanggungjawab mereka. Tetapi bukan semua ahli Umno seramai 3 juta lebih adalah korup seperti pemimpin tertingi mereka. Masih ada yang ikhlas membantu menaikkan taraf rakyat setempat dan masih ada yang mahu melihat supaya bangsa Melayu bersatu melangkaui fahaman politik.

    https://jebatmustdie.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/umno-is-no-more-protecting-the-malays-dignity/

    Terima kasih.

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  15. Salam all…

    @ ajip

    Ya, disebabkan ada commentator yang miskin minda macam anda, tak mampu nak beli hujah dan pendapat yg mahal-mahal tu selalu. Sebab itulah sekali-sekala JMD ni memberikan “cheap shot” yg pastinya “murah dan mampu milik” serta “tanpa cengkeram” bagi orang2 yg miskin minda macam anda.

    JMD : Macam iklan Courts Mammoth aje Joe🙂 Thank you.

    Like

  16. @ andipool

    MOST and ALMOST ALL of cetak-rompak towkays, disco towkays, heads of samseng groups, heads of kongsi gelap groups, bosses of sex massage parlours, as well as bapak ayams, gores-dan-menang con-men, and not to forget – drug lords, are Chinese. The list can go on and on. If Hudud is ever implemented, these Chinese will lose their limbs as well as many Malays.

    In the other hand, I accept the fact that there are many rotten Malays out there and we as part of the community are working out whatever means we can to correct them, BUT I am telling you, don’t f**kin boastfully looking down upon us as if you non-Malays are all “suci bersih” either!

    JMD : Thank you for the comment and further dissecting my views. Really appreciate it.

    Like

  17. Average Joe,
    Dont get worked up, I agree every race has got their dark side. My facts are from the daily newspapers–the truth hurts. My contention was will all Malays
    support the Hudud laws–the non malays will surely resist hudud laws. By logic the hudud laws should only be applicable to the muslims only–after all its their religion and if the majority of the muslims agree then they can go ahead–don’t disturb the non muslims

    JMD : Thank you Andipool. If the government is Islamic and following the tenets of Islam, then everyone in the country MUST be subjected to the same laws. If not, then the repercussions of two sets of differing criminal punishments for the same type of crime will be unfair to the Muslims. That’s my thoughts anyway. This article that I wrote is to enable the people to see two sides of opposing views clearly and to better see which one has the stronger argument.

    Like

  18. The Devil’s Advocate by Jebat Must Die is an eye-opener for the Malays and the non-Malays of Malaysia.

    With the forthcoming poll in Trengganu, it is going to be a test for the majority and minority components that make up Malaysia to vote wisely, guided by the brain and not the heart.

    It is agreed that Anwar Ibrahim is a full-blooded politician, never seen before in Malaysia. He is a poison covered in rose petals. To trust what he said is just like believing that the moon will one day turn blue. Recently, a prominent an ex-overseas leader, who persistently broke his promises, was confronted by journalists about his broken promises. The Prime Minister admitted that he did not fulfill the promises because they were not ‘core promises’. As such, those promises could be broken, knowingly or unknowingly. Of course, there is no law to charge a politician for breaking a promise.

    Political campaigns are sugar-coated and the actual contents would only be known when the election is over. Rightly so, as pointed out by Megat Must Die, there is nowhere in this world whereby a country has two sets of Criminal Laws, one for the majority and another for the minority. If Anwar Ibrahim becomes the leader of the world only, very likely this would happen. In short, only a giant can set the whims and fancies to satisfy its insatiable desire for all the countries to follow. Malaysia will never be able to grow up to become that giant, so as to scare the world.

    If the minority does not wake up now, it will then be too late to regret. Whatever, there is a strong indication that should the leader of Malaysia make an attempt to adopt a Hudud-style of government, sooner or later, there will be ugly scenarios all round in Malaysia. This is now being widely experienced elsewhere by many of the countries that implement the Hudud penal code.

    With regard to the polling in Trengganu, it is imperative that all voters weigh all the pros and cons before deciding what kind of Malaysia they want. Always take the promises of candidates with a pinch of salt. It is best to read in between the lines, so that the future of Malaysia is here to stay.

    All prospective voters should take notice of the advice expressed by the most intelligent and versatile leader the world has seen. He is not too far away from us. Look closely and you will see and if you blinded with promises that would never be delivered, that is going to be the death knell for Malaysia and all Malaysians, whether the Malays, the Chinese or the Indians. Just do not ask for it.

    It is hoped that the Malays, Chinese and Indians do not play into the hands of politicians whose ideology appears to be, bringing peace and prosperity to all Malaysians, while in actually fact, it is not so. What is so is: Tinggi gunung seribu janji, lain di bibir, lain di hati.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. And I did remember what John Howard had desperately trying to justify his lies. Core promises and non core promises. Hahaha those were the days when John Howard was trying to do a George W Bush on his people🙂 Love the pantun at the end. have a good weekend everyone!

    Like

  19. @ andipool

    You get your “facts” from newspapers while I get mine – about all those “crime leaders” – from sources close to local police departments as well as those close to local district offices (about their business premises). Not everything will be reported in newspapers and tv news.

    Dont get worked up, I agree every race has got their dark side.” – You had to say this since I brought up about “cetak-rompak towkays, disco towkays, heads of samseng groups, heads of kongsi gelap groups, bosses of sex massage parlours, as well as bapak ayams, gores-dan-menang con-men, and not to forget – drug lords“. Sudah kena batang hidung sendiri baru nak mengaku “every race has got their dark side”?

    I agree 100% with JMD’s response to your last comment – everyone in the country MUST be subjected to the same laws. Kalau 2/3 di Dewan Rakyat menyokong, 2/3 Dewan Negara menyokong dan kemudian mendapat perkenan Yang DiPertuan Agong, then who are you to say “don’t disturb the non-Muslims” ?

    Like

  20. Ha ha ha,
    Have not commented on your blog for some time.
    PAS did a remarkable war strategy. Yes, UMNO should campaign on Islamic issues. But it will still lose KT.
    My take is kind of long its over here http://padedoh.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/the-pas-blitzkrieg/

    As a summary, UMNO’s big mistake was to play the hudud issue. This election is in KT not PJ. PAS is battle tested and spot on tactics. I do hope your not advising this ill fated campaign.

    Best Regards,
    WJK

    JMD : Wah ketawa besar nampak? Apa yang gelihati sangat tu?🙂 You are correct, Umno’s mistake is to play the hudud issue (although you did mention beforehand that Umno should campaign on Islamic issues(?)).

    And yes you are correct; I am indeed not the adviser for this campaign. I am sure Pak Lah’s fourth floor advisers are doing a terrific job in strategising Umno’s overall campaign. From the moment the Wacana Minda was held, through the selection of candidate, all the way to the campaigning methods and the selection of issues to be brought forward to the masses.

    Thank you.

    Like

  21. Salaam JMD,

    A few years back, I’ve told my mom that this country will be a better place if we have all the major Malay/Muslim parties joint together as one.

    You were right when Tok Guru said that he will disband PAS if UMNO embrace ISLAM as its core. It will strengthen the Malays and the aliens will have to forget their intention to rule Semenanjung Tanah Melayu.

    I think we have had enough of this DAP bullshits and their kurang ajar attitudes. PKR, to me is better off without AI.

    We muslim should not redicule HUDUD as it is ALLAH’s law and all muslim must follow the Quran.

    JMD, correct me if I’m wrong…:

    If a muslim utter even a single word that redicule or in a sense that shows his/hers intention other than what have been written in the Qur’an, is considered a musyrik.

    We have to be extra careful in our words, especially if the words are merely to gain a few votes out of the non-malays. We might end up as an apostle. NA’UZUBILLAH………..

    Islamic law is for everybody. It’s not only for muslims. And why on earth are we defending an unjust man-made law when there is a set of laws well written in the Qur’an?

    Kita TIDAK boleh pada hakikatnya menggunakan apa-apa jenis undang-undang selain yang termaktub dalam Qur’an. Kenapa kita mesti menidakkan hukum ALLAH yang diajar oleh Rasulullah saw dan al-Qur’an?
    Kenapa kita mudah lemah pada orang-orang kafir? Adakah mereka ini akan menjamin kita dari api neraka?

    To me JMD, it’s simple.

    If we are Muslims, we have to be a Muslim in every sense!! If we don’t, we’re going straight to HELL…! Are we ready to take the heat?? HELL FIRE’s HEAT…!?

    Think about it bro….

    JMD : You are correct. That is why, because of just trying to please and appease the non Malays, you would compromise on this concept of Hudud by saying that it is only meant for the Muslims. These politicians should be ashamed of themselves. Kalau tak mampu hendak melaksanakannya, tidak mengapa. Banyak lagi shari’at Islam yang mampu kita bangunkan. Tetapi jangan sekali kali mempermainkan isu ini hanya untuk meraih undi bukan Melayu. Thank you.

    Like

  22. Salam JMD,

    ur reply to my comment – ..lebih baik wan farid kalah…. is this JMD speaking or the devil ?

    seems like u know something that we don’t. care to share ? And it surprised me yet again that we have the same thought ( though i’m way out of ur league in terms of penning my thoughts ). in all honesty, i dont want wan farid to win. By voting Pas does not mean i vouch for Pas or PR, but i just dont want BN to win KT. Tak nak Umno/BN besar kepala tapi biarlah majoriti sikit, supaya Pas juga tak besar kepala.

    The fact that this is just a by election and the result does not affect the nation much, will be the main reason BN would lose KT. Rakyat want to sent a message to BN leaders.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment Din. I agree with you.

    Like

  23. Dear Jebat.

    In Kuala Terengganu, after having heard what have been said and having seen what have been done, I would say that BN is targetting the wrong segment of voters. I think enough have been said about this hudud thing. PAS had spoken about it over and over again and proposes to implement it but in reality, just a lot of hot air. Look at Kelantan as an example. More than 20 years of PAS rule but the hudud? It remains something that they talk about (I mean PAS). In Terengganu previously, yes they did something about it but when it comes to implementation? Again politics come into play.

    Perhaps the real issue here is something to do about sending a message across to whoever the voters want to send the message to. I am interested to read among the comments here that he felt saddened by PAS supporters carrying DAP flags. Perhaps there is a message here? There is also this picture that I saw , this is the url (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_A0G8x4YSZvw/SWL6xV5zaoI/AAAAAAAAIDg/1wTg–qIlbg/s1600-h/nomi7.jpg). A smart campaigner would make use of such pictures in their psywar efforts but sadly, nothing had happened. Perhaps too much of being a gentleman in politics (was that an oxymoron?)

    I have also seen how active the pro-Anwar bloggers have been. Fuelled by their hatred against the government, they have made a big impact. Sadly, BN have yet to react until now apart from making threatening gestures instead of engaging. Like pictures of the Malacca pig incident (and subsequently the reaction of the various Islamist NGOs), if you look at it, such reactions are being used against BN. BN did not even bother to use materiels which provoked the reaction.

    In the end, all I can see is that BN is progressively becoming a giant behemoth that has troubles taking steps properly. Instead, it just react and hits out wildly. What happened to all these bright sparks employed by Pak Lah? Can’t they think outside the box? I don’t suppose so, judging from what I have seen the campaigning so far. In fact, during Pak Lah’s tenure as the PM, he is the only PM that I know of that had to go to the field during by-elections. I can barely recall such incidents when Dr M had to do that.

    My assumption of such a scenario is the lack of second liners. I am not saying that Najib is bad, it is just that the machinery that surrounds him. How can you engage the kampong folks by moving around in gleaming SUVs? Especially with siren blarings?

    I used to remember how Pak Lah was when he headed by-election efforts when he was DPM. With the exception of the one in Kedah which by-election was brougt about by Fadzil Noor (I think the arwah held the one state and one Parliament seat – BN won 1 but lost 1), he was simply brilliant at marshalling people, which gives me to think that as an administrator, he is very capable. Not too mention the fact that he is a shrewd tactician, believe it or not.

    If you care to recall, Pak Lah is among the last few that was in the NOC and one of the few who had actually been trained and actually engaged in psy-war operations in the post -independence years. Do take note that all by-elections that I spoke of here are pre-2002, when he was DPM.

    I also recalled Lunas by-election, where Pak Lah lead the charge. It was written off by many that it will be won by Keadilan. His orchestration of the entire machinery led to the routing of Keadilan there. To say that the man is not capable would be a very wrong assumption. Just as in the Likas by-election when that SAPP fella got disqualified because he flouted election regulations, the orchestration was such that the seat was returned to BN with an even healthier majority.

    I’ll let you into a secret of one of Pak Lah’s campaigning method during by-elections when he moves around from ceramah to ceramah. His escorts are absolutely prohibited from using the siren. Ask the traffic police who had escorted him pre-2002 during by-elections, that was the rule and it was implemented. Want to know why? This was what he said: “Nanti orang kampung menyampah.” During non-election times, Pak Lah will also forbid the sirens being used when passing by any places of worship, out of respect. I had seen this happen many a times.

    All these, to me, points that Abdullah is either no longer use what he has or become to dependent on his young advisers, almost all of whom were hired when he came into office. His old aides were thrown out in favour of these younger ones, no guesses at whose behest. Pak Lah is shrewd just as he is smart. You can talk to the man, he may appear asleep but if you stop, don’t be surprised if he opens his eyes and ask you why you had stopped.

    Again, with all the caveats in place on me concerning the old man, these are just some of the experience that I have with the old man. Pak Lah faux pas is nothing else but a bunch of inexperienced self-styled advisors, whom seem to forget that they are supposed to be aides, not advising the old man.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. Thus, the situation Umno is in right now is due to the attitude and the failure of his advisers in not knowing their job description and priorities. Of course, he had no help from his family members who are also inclined to unduly smear his reputation through their own antics.

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  24. It would be a comic tragedy for some people …

    the ones who support Pakatan Rakyat hoped for Malaysian Malaysia but end up supporting Islamic Malaysia …

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  25. I find it amusing that most if not all political party that has Islam as its platform will promise that the first thing they do when they come to power would be to introduce Hudud.

    Despite the fact that Quranic theme is about justice and charity, these politicians are more concerned about shedding blood in the name of God.

    Please do not get me wrong, I am not opposing the establishment of God’s law, I just feel that there are other important priorities that need to be addressed.

    I suppose Hudud is the easiest ploy to get people to associate the politicians with their claim to Islamic credentials.

    The other pressing issues that God wants us to do, will be difficult to implement and harder to asses the success.

    Average Joe,

    Despite the fact that the Police have a dedicated department that specifically target triads, they seem to be flourishing and their activities seems to be unimpeded. They present more of a threat to national security than the so called “islamic terror groups”.

    By and large, every race in the country contributes in some way to the growing social menace in Malaysia, it just so happens that some race gets more press exposure than others.

    It doesnt help that the Malays with power, either politicial and in the security business, strangely have a tendency to victimise another Malay. I remember Nik Aziz’s son was detained under ISA for alleged “terrorist activities” for a lengthy period of time whereas some Chinese triad bosses freely walk the street.

    And amusing as it may sound, the last time the Police launched Operation Copperhead targetting triad bosses, quite a number of them fled to Penang. I wonder why.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment Lekiu.

    Like

  26. The result of the last general election should be the catalyst for a transformational change, particularly for the ruling party (BN). Otherwise, lessons unlearned. Between last March and the KT byelection, a period of almost 10 months, has BN changed for the better? Besides the changing of guard in MCA and UMNO (to happen in March 2009), everything else remains almost a status quo. MIC rebranding exercise and Gerakan and PPP’s threat to quit BN is just an old newspaper joke. For UMNO, having a new President (in March 2009) does not mean anything if the manner UMNO is managed and steered forward is not any different. If BN has not changed at all, then why should the voters, Malays or non-Malays switch back their votes to the ruling party.

    JMD : This is by far one of the strongest point of argument in this article. Perish the thoughts about Hudud. Perish the thought about unifying the malays vis-a-vis Umno + PAS coalition. Umno and BN will scare off voters simply by being the same political animal it was just prior to March 2008. Plagued with unprecedented corruption, inability of self reflection, unable to progress the nation to greater heights, incompetent, ineffective, inefficient and full of superficial leaders.

    We remember how the Umno MPs were kidnapped in a two day rethreat in Shah Alam just after the general election (in the pretext of brainstorming) to study the loss of 2/3rd majority. We had idiris Jusoh as the Chairman of something (to revitalise Umno) etc.

    What has changed? Nothing! We do have a few leaders here and there whom had risen above the rest. But no concrete solution and action plans were implemented. Apa tunggu lagi?

    That is why, the non malays will still vote for PAS eventhough they know what PAS stands for. Why? Because they are still protesting. Because they still see no change in BN. Because they have no alternative than the BN. It is pure accidental they are voting PAS. I’d reckon, if they put SAPP there instead of PAS, SAPP would still have a fighting chance against BN.

    But BN is in luck. Since we now know that people are actually protesting, then BN must know that they have reached crisis point. There’s no where else to turn at this point. Either to revitalise, or euthanise yourself. In a crisis, there would always be an opportunity. This is the opportunity for BN to bounce back from the sewers of pathetic leadership and become what they suppose to achieve.

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  27. Assalamualikum JMD,

    Your topic remind me of my late lecturer, a chinese guy who befriend an arab guy during his study years. Once he visited his friend in middle east (can’t remember the actual country), stop by a goldsmith shop and the owner ask him to take his time selecting what he like while he go to Masjid since it was prayer time. After the owner came back, my late lecturer ask him if he is not afraid of people stealing from him, the answer, who dare to steal when Hudud laws is enforced. My leturer then heard that some thing is happening at the market place, it was a guy sentence to death by beheading. He the ask his friend if this is common and he is shock to hear that the last death sentence was approximately 8 years ago.

    He ( a chinese guy) tell us that Hudud or Islamic law will be the best law. People are afraid of what they don’t know, Our current laws now breed a lot of pimps, robbers, thieves, murderers and the like. For non Muslim, you guys should study the Hudud laws before making any statement. It just only shows you stupidity …

    JMD : Hudud of course is a good law, IF IT IS IMPLEMENTED to all the citizens in Malaysia. There is just no justification if, due to political reasons, telling the people that Hudud will only cover the Muslims but not non Muslims. What gross injustice that would be. If Hudud is implemented so that people will be afraid to commit crime, then it will defeat the purpose since if a non Muslim committed a crime, say petty theft, he would only be subjected to a petty fine or several days of jail term but a Muslim will have his hand chopped off!

    Will that be a deterrent to the whole society? Certainly not! That means, non Muslims criminals can continue to rape or commit crime without being stoned to death or receive 100 lashes but a Muslim would. In the medium run, Muslims would be good citizens but Non Muslims will continue to commit crime.

    How about crime involving a Muslim and non Muslim? Would a married Muslim girl who committed adultery with a non Muslim be stoned to death while her lover gets away with his life intact?

    These are some questions that needs to be answered by Hadi Awang who profusely said that hudud will only encompass the Muslims but not non Muslims. Just because he wanted the votes of the non Malays! He compromised the fairness concept in Islam just to satisfy his political lust for power. Anwar Ibrahim knows this. But he continued to be blinded by his ambition of the premiership. Hypocritical people who used religion to gain political mileage should not be voted in by the people.

    I am not against Hudud. Just that the repercussions of having two sets of punishments for the SAME CRIME is very unfair to the Muslims.

    Thank you.

    Like

  28. Salam JDM,

    I am VERY keen to see the blue print from PAS on how exactly they will implement the HUDUD laws. Talking is cheap therefore if they can share with us on their action plan and details on how the hudud law will take place, I will surely more then willing to hear them. Does that means we will have to change our seluruh Dasar Undang-undang Negara dan Majlis Kehakiman atau adakah satu cabang undang-undang baru berdasarkan hudud khas untuk orang Islam – seperti Mahkamah Syariah akan ditubuhkan? Tolong tunjukan kesungguhan anda bukan sekadar cakap macam orang UMNO. Please bear in mind seorang muslim yang mahu keluar dari ugamanya mengikut undang-undang islam hukumnya adalah bunuh. Saya sangat berminat untuk mengetahui bagaimana PAS akan menangani masalah ini? Beranikah mereka melaksanakan hukum tersebut didalam negara yang berbilang bangsa. I can only imagine how Mr Karpal will react. Dan adakah PAS akan menyula geng mereka yang mengaku berzina malah menganggap ia adalah rezeki. Atau PAS akan keluarkan fatwa mengatakan walaupun sudah mengaku tapi tak ada 4 saksi maka perbuatan itu tak berlaku? emmm…menarik bukan.

    PAS, Jika perjuangan kamu benar-benar kerana ALLAH, maka dia akan mempermudahkan kamu mencapai niat kamu, Tapi nampaknya PAS lebih suka berpolitik dan sedihnya menggunakan ugama untuk kepentingan politik mereka.

    So far I am very kecewa dengan PAS bila berdepan dengan masalah yang berkaitan Islam tapi sering tunduk dengan kehendak geng lain PR lantas langsung tidak bersuara. Sebaliknya sering mengeluarkan fatwa yang menghalalkan perbuatan yang nyatanya salah. Entahlah. Kalau tidak salah saya Hadi Awang pernah mengatakan Hukum HUDUD tidak boleh dilaksanakan sekarang disebabkan oleh kemelesetan ekonomi dan ramai orang yang tidak memahami HUDUD. Bagi saya ini tidak masuk akal kerana PAS tidak sepatutnya invent any excuses to delay the implementation and yet condaming UMNO for not doing so now.

    Bro Jebat, GUA BETUL-BETUL PENING DENGAN PENDIRIAN PAS.

    Wasalam

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  29. Jebat,

    I certainly agree with most of your points here, but i found your reply to Andipool’s above was rather “strange”, or shall i say ‘unsettling’.

    Quote:”If the government is Islamic and following the tenets of Islam, then everyone in the country MUST be subjected to the same laws. If not, then the repercussions of two sets of differing criminal punishments for the same type of crime will be unfair to the Muslims. That’s my thoughts anyway”

    How could punishment under Hudud/Islamic Law would be unfair to Muslim? Are you implying that Islamic Law is not a just law or rather it is a cruel law?

    Thank you

    JMD : My reply to Cicit Dang Rombeh above should suffice. Thank you.

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  30. JMD,

    UMNO become like PAS? Anta is frightening ana. Or maybe anta is just resorting to some reverse psychology? Ana feels that UMNO is now clueless on how to move forward. PAS on the other hand is convinced that all their showmanship sembahyang hajat in the padang bola has actually been answered. Ana must admit it never rained when they were on the padang bola.

    Anta and ana know that what Dr M says has much truth ie it is less love of Caesar than dislike of Rome that has caused UMNO its present predicament. But Rome too has truly lost its head. And from what anta is suggesting, Rome may soon resort to bandaging its head (pakai serban) to heal itself.

    p.s. For the uninitiated (or shall I say uncircumcised, he he he, just joking ok) anta is PAS lingo meaning ‘you’ and ‘ana’ means I.

    JMD : Thank you Tuan Syed for the comment. Reverse psychology plus a bit of trying to clear the clouded perspectives on several issues.🙂

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  31. Best way forward, have a national referendum, on whether Hudud is acceptable or not. My belief is, it will fail by a mile, as politians from Bn or Pr, realise majority of Malaysians from all religious and ethnic background would reject such proposal. Also have a seperate referendum only among Muslims, to to get a better picture, and it should be carried out by an independent body, not Umno or Pas. Why must the voice of 27 millions be silenced by a few hundred elected Mps? Electing an MP did not mean subscribing to his/her ideologies.

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  32. encik jebat,

    PAS memperjuangkan hukum hudud atas satu sebab, dan atas satu sebab sahaja: iaitu ianya satu perkara yg wajib dan fardhu yg ditentukan oleh ALLAH. soal sama ada ianya boleh dilakukan dimalaysia jikalau pas berjaya menerajui kerajaan pusat, mungkin disebabkan kekurangan MP sebanyak 2/3, etc etc tidak akan menghalang niat utk meneruskan perjuangan ini. oleh sebab yg demikian pas sangat konsisten berkenaan isu hudud, walhal mereka menyedari mereka tidak mempunyai kuasa utk melaksanakan – tapi mereka mempunyai kuasa utk memperjuangkannya..

    melaksanakan hukum hudud adalah wajib oleh pemerintah, bukan oleh rakyat. oleh sebab ini, maka tanggungjawab ini patut digalas oleh UMNO, bukan pas. pas hanya push it forward. walaupun pas menguasai 3 negeri, namun kuasa negeri adalah tertakluk kpd batasan dan had yg ditetapkan oleh perlembagaan persekutuan. dan oleh yg demikian pas tidak mempunyai kuasa utk melaksanakan hukum hudu keatas 3 negeri tersebut. tapi UMNO mempunyai kuasa utk melaksanakan hudud di malaysia. soalnya mengapa UMNO tidak mahu melaksanakan hudud di malaysia. adakah kerana tentangan org2 bukan islam di malaysia?

    bagi saya, adalah bukan perkara yg ganjil jikalau org bukan islam dimalaysia, malah dimana2 pun, jikalau mereka tidak bersetuju dgn undang2 hudud kerana mereka BUKAN ISLAM… tapi apabila orang2 islam itu sendiri, yg mana pada masa yg sama sembahyang, puasa, pergi haji, bayar zakat tp menolak undang2 hudud, maka itu adalah ganjil…mungkin Paklah mencipta konsep Islam Hadhari kerana atas sebab2 ini; boleh pilih hukum/amalan yg mana suka sahaja…..

    sepatutnya, adalah menjadi tugas bagi setiap org2 islam, tak kira Pas atau umno utk memperjuangkan perlaksanaan undang2 hudud di malaysia – secara yg paling bijaksana dan hikmah, sesuai dgn cara Nabi Muhammad SAW berdakwah… beri kefahaman kpd org bukan islam bahawa org islam perlukan undang2 hudud ke atas mereka sama macamana mereka memerlukan undang2 nikah kawin cerai harta pusaka etc yg selama ini mereka nikmati di malaysia melalui mahkamah syariah…

    dan sama2 lah kita berilah penerangan kpd orang2 bkn islam bahawa hukum hudud itu has no jurisdiction over non muslim. anda menyebut bahawa negara arab saudi melaksanakan hukum hudud keatas semua warganegaranya termasuk org2 bukan islam. jawapan saya: ianya lebih kpd political exercise tapi bukan kerana ianya wajib dari segi fiqh. lagipun arab saudi adalah wahabi dan cara mereka mentafsir hukum fiqh adalah sangat ketat… malah org2 islam malaysia pun banyak yg tak dapat menerima tafsiran ketat mereka tersebut….

    marilah kita semua berpuasa, sembahyang lima waktu, bayar zakat etc dan melaksanakan hukum hudud…..

    JMD : Typical of PAS to ‘tai chi’ their own idealogy and struggle to someone else. Thank you for this comment. I believe we can kill several birds with just this one article. Dear matdie, your comment here is being countered by the commentator by the name Othman below.

    Another aspect of the ridiculous PAS which we can dissect further.

    Keterangan saudara bahawa Arab Saudi bersandarkan political exercise untuk menuntut bahawa semua orang mesti tertakluk kepada hukum Hudud juga tidak masuk akal. Bagi saya, itu adalah adil sekali. Sila baca komen saya di atas.

    Akan tetapi jika saudara berkata Arab Saudi mentafsir hukum hakam dengan agak ketat sehingga banyak orang Islam pun tidak dapat menerima tafsiran mereka, maka adakah ini bermakna kita boleh mengikut pandangan yang lebih longgar?

    Awalnya saudara berkata hukum Allah mesti di ikuti dengan wajib. Jika Arab Saudi menafsirkannya begitu (dan saya rasa Arab Saudi bagus untuk dijadikan panduan), maka sepatutnya PAS juga perlu melakukan seperti begitu? Bukan? Mana satu yang betul ni?

    Terima kasih.

    Like

  33. Malaysia have had death penalty for a long time and despite the severity of the punishment, it has not been successful in deterring people from committing murder and peddling drugs.

    I think it is an oversimplistic notion to say that the imposition of Hudud would stem the rising crime rate. That I know people who commit crime, ever the eternal optimists, does so on the basis that they will not get caught.

    I believe that there is enough evidence out there to show that there is no correlation between the severity of punsihment and a lower rate of crime.

    JMD : Thank you Lekiu for revealing another side of the argument. I fully concur with you.

    Like

  34. @ Lekiu

    Quote:

    Average Joe,

    Despite the fact that the Police have a dedicated department that specifically target triads, they seem to be flourishing and their activities seems to be unimpeded. They present more of a threat to national security than the so called “islamic terror groups”.

    By and large, every race in the country contributes in some way to the growing social menace in Malaysia, it just so happens that some race gets more press exposure than others.

    It doesnt help that the Malays with power, either politicial and in the security business, strangely have a tendency to victimise another Malay. I remember Nik Aziz’s son was detained under ISA for alleged “terrorist activities” for a lengthy period of time whereas some Chinese triad bosses freely walk the street.

    And amusing as it may sound, the last time the Police launched Operation Copperhead targetting triad bosses, quite a number of them fled to Penang. I wonder why.

    Very thanks for complementing my comment. Also, the tendency of the media to highlight in full-blow, any crime done by Malay perpetrator(s) no matter how big or how small the crime is, but to edit and sterile (even cover-up) the news report when it comes to those triad gangs and their bosses, who are not Malays.

    Alas, a good question to the PDRM and the Internal Affairs/Security Minister (and of course, to the minister’s boss too).

    Like

  35. Salam sdra. Jebat.

    I admit that my religious knowledge is rather limited, but i have gone through no less than 3 times the tafsir of Yusuf Ali, Pickhall & Shakir yet i failed to find references to some of the ‘popular tags’ of the hudud law which most people associate it to be. For example:

    I. there is no mentions of killing of people who is murtad. it is God who wii decide the punishmant on the resurrection day.
    2. no mentions of stoning people to death for zina – what was mentioned; public canning – 100 lashes for the married and 80 lashes for the bachelors- and the main purpose for these cannings are not so much as to ‘hurt’ the offenders, but rather to ‘shamed’ them and as deterrent to future offenders.
    3. as for chopping of hands for theft, I’ve yet to find the exact ayat concerning the matter (please tell me if you know it).

    Most of these punishments, which is labelled as cruel and inhuman by non muslims, comes from the hadith and it seemed rather contradicting with the Quran itself. Is it possible that all along, we are more hadith oriented rather than submit to the words of Allah,i.e. the Quran?

    Back to your article, i must congratulate you for those candid
    ‘mind-tinggling’ ideas, yet there are people who are so dumb that they failed to read between the lines. These people are so obsessed and taksub that their hearts are caged in the environment of hatred, riak and the padan muka attitude. They dont even bother to stop and think of some of those long term damages to their own bangsa & agama that been done in these past months by
    their leaders for the sake of popularity. To these people- my humble advice-
    please look back at struggle of the patriotic founders/leaders of PAS of yesteryear: Dr.Hilmi Burhanudin, Dato’ Asri etc.etc., and ask yourself, are you willing to led their struggle and sacrifices for your bangsa n agama to just go down the drain? Yes, you hate UMNO..fine. I myself is far from fancying them either, especially those arrogant,corrupted and lupa daratan Umno leaders. But does this means that you have to destroy the very foundation of the existence of our bangsa i.e perpaduan melayu. Say whatever you want-a racist,whatever-,
    but beleive me, without perpaduan melayu… now!… our bangsa will usher the next century as pariah and our great great grandchildren will piss on our grave for the stupidity of their taksub’s grandparents. For certain people in this lovely country, any sign of a ‘crack’ in our perpaduan will trigger their uphoria of overjoy. Remember mei 69… and now march 08. Only this time around these people are getting wiser..they learned from their mistake back in 69. This time, they are not going to dirty their own hands, instead they have found a selfish traitor with lots of followers to do the job for them. And he is doing a bloody excellent job for that matter.

    Sdra Jebat..keep up the good work..Wassalam.

    othman. 1.20 am.

    JMD : Thank you Othman for the comment.

    Like

  36. JMD,

    I have been following your blog regularly because I am impressed by your ability to convey your message in plain, simple English and putting forth your arguments convincingly.

    After going through your recent article and the comments as well as realising the recent trend of Islamic bashing from ignorant Muslims and non-Muslims alike, I have decided to engage or explain the subject matter raised. Before that, let me state here that I am not a member of any political party nor do I support their so- called struggle. To me they are only a bunch of hypocrite willing to sell their religion, race and country for power.

    Having said that, let me now touch a bit about Hudud as raised in your article and is currently a subject of Islamic bashing. As you and majority of those who have commented are aware, hudud offences are mentioned in the Holy Quran(The Supreme Constitution for every individual Muslim) and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet. As such they are divine laws and not a creation of Pas. How Pas intend to enact it to be Malaysian criminal Iaws or what is their true motive of using this issue is not of concern to me. What matters to me is that every Muslim must endevour to look forward to the implementation of the divine laws. Of course, what I am saying is easily said than done, because the the reality is that the vast majority of Muslims in Malaysia knows very little about their religion except for the rituals and picking up here and there for their “ustaz tazkirah”. Most of us are blind followers and does not take the trouble to study our religion. As such the thought of hudud laws being implemented frightened not only non-Muslims but also a vast majority of Muslims.

    There are prerequisites before Islamic criminal laws including hudud, qisas and ta’azir can be implemented. The state must firstly be an Islamic state. We Muslims are confused or hoodwinked into believing that there exist today countries which we can call Islamic state. None exist today. All the countries presently being referred to as Islamic are merely Muslim states where the the majority of the population are of the Islamic faith. Throughout histoty there exist only one Islamic state ie The City State of Madina established by the Holy Prophet Muhammad saw.

    An Islamic state must not only has majority Muslim population but also its core value system of life must also adhere rigidly to the teachings of our Holy Prophet based on the Holy Quran and his Sunnah. Another prerequisite is that the environment must be condusive. Allah swt required the establishment of public treasury and of proceed collected from natural resources to assist the community in particular, the disabled, the sick, the old and the poor to be self sufficient at least to have basic need of food, clothing and shelter. It is indeed cruel(zalim) if hudud punishments were to be implemented on those who have no means of sustenance. For example, the time of famine, Caliph Omar disallowed the imposition of hadd(hudud punishment) of cutting off hand for stealing.

    There are seven offences classified under hudud in the Holy Quran. They are Apostasy, Treason or Armed Rebellion, Theft, Highway Robbery, Adultery, Slander and Consuming Intoxicating Liquor.

    As to whether it is applied to non- Muslims, the Holy Prophet has allowed Jews to choose either to be tried under Islamic or Jewish laws. As such I would think that for non-Muslims in any current state which implement hudud laws, the non- Muslims likewise must be given a choice. Anyway, the hudud punishments for crime of Apostasy, Adultery and Consuming Intoxicating Liquor are definely not applicable to non-Muslims unless they abet the offence.

    What distinguishes the penalties of hudud from crimes in other systems is their great effectiveness in combatting serious crime, since they cause great physical pain. Because these penalties have a tangible effect, they are more fearsome to habitual offenders than less severe penalties, like imprisonment, in which case criminals become accustomed to the penalty itself. Hudud penalties are not meant to frighten Muslims but to prevent tne growth of a climate favourable to the existence and spread of such crimes. Thus, the incidence of such crimes becomes the exception. The penalties of hudud are only intended to deter those who have a tendency to commit crime, or those who are easily tempted. In the majority of cases, such people will not be restrained except by very severe punishment.

    An example of the effectiveness of hudud penalty against robbery is the case of Hijaz (in Saudi Arabia) which at one time was one of the worst place for violent crimes and highway robberies. When Saudi Arabia adopted hudud penalties, such crimes ceased and criminal gangs were disbanded. Saudi Arabia is now an example of a country in which theft and highway robberies rarely occure. The number of amputations for 25 years (during the reign of King Abdel Aziz Al Saud) was only sixteen(16). Compare this number to the number of robberies which took place in Egypt where the sentence are inprisonment. For a period of 30 years (1938-1968) the number of robbery cases sentenced to imprisonment grew from 1038 in 1938 to 30,000 in 1968.

    As Malaysian are regularly criticising the Malaysia Police for the rise in violent crimes lately (thanks to those championing the of human rights of criminals rather than human rights of law abidding citizen), they should now be receptable to the idea of implementing hudud punishment to resolve this issue.

    I am sorry for this lenthy comment and hope that you are not bored.

    JMD : Nope. Not bored at all. Thank you for the comment. However, I find it peculiar that there are instances where people giving views that Hudud was not mentioned in the Quran but only in Hadiths. My view is simple. If you want to implement Hudud, it must cover everyone. Otherwise, don’t.

    http://tunkuaisha.blogspot.com/2009/01/dap-prepared-to-cooperate-with-pas-and.html

    Like

  37. Average Joe,
    The crimes you mentioned are nothing compared to the crimes committed by the Malays–incest–screwing their own 1 yr old child, 7 fellows raping one underage girl, raping a girl and burning her body and so forth. Jenayah jenayah ini langsung tak masuk akal dan paling terkutuk didunia–lebih teruk dari binatang. As for PAS to acquire 2/3majority in parliament–you can go on dreaming in your dreamland. You mentioned they have got 3 states under their control–why didnt they implement hudud laws–simply b’cos the constitution did’nt allow.
    So now you all are waiting to amend the constitution to allow hudud laws to be implemented–use your brainlah not your stupid emotions–malaysia is made up 50% muslims and 50% non muslims–you think the non malays will support the hudud law–you carry on dreaming .

    Like

  38. Encik Jebat,

    apabila saya berhujah bahawa Arab saudi melaksanakan hukum hudud juga ke atas orang bukan islam sebagai satu political exercise bermaksud bahawa ianya bukan satu religious exercise.. dalam fiqh, orang bukan islam tidak wajib dikenakan hudud, melainkan takzir sahaja… jikalau malaysia ingin melaksanakan hukum hudud maka orang bukan islam BOLEH dikecualikan dari dikenakan hukum hudud. oleh yg demikian, apabila arab saudi melaksanakan hukum hudud keatas orang bukan islam itu kerana tuntutan politik mereka, bukan kerana tuntutan fiqh semata2..

    arab saudi mengamalkan figh dalam aliran wahabi, yg sangat ketat intepretasinya terhadap perkara furu’. contohnya orang perempuan dilarang memandu kereta, mesti pakai hijab penuh, keluar rumah tidak boleh berseorangan tanpa ditemani oleh bukan muhrim dan malah di halang dari bekerja. hal ini kalau di amalkan di malaysia tentulah menjadi sangat bising, bukan?

    jadi, arab saudi walaupun negara penjaga mekah sekalipun, mempunyai tatacara dan budaya islam yg amat berbeza dgn kita (as far as furu’ is concerned)

    oleh yg demikian, apabila arab saudi melaksanakan hudud keatas org2 bukan islam, tidak bermakna kita (malaysia) WAJIB melaksanakan hudud keatas orang bukan islam – kerana fiqh membenarkan kita TIDAK melaksanakan hudud keatas orang bukan islam….

    saya tegaskan melaksanakan hudud itu wajib ke atas kita semua orang islam. wajib itu dari fardu kifayah dan pemikul beban adalah pihak yg berkuasa.. kalau umno yg berkuasa, umnolah. kalau pas yg berkuasa, maka pas lah. sebab itu pas apabila mereka mempunyai kuasa (kuasa yg memadai dan selayaknya – kuasa federal) maka mereka tetap akan melaksanakan hudud.

    perlu difahami bahawa hudud ini satu sistem pentadbiran undang2 jenayah. ianya mempunyai tatacara kanunnya, dan juga tatacara pembuktiannya. hendak membuktikan orang berzina bukan senang dan mungkin penzina itu terlepas kerana tak cukup bukti. terlepas pun bukan bermaksud kita gagal melaksanakan hudud kerana pelepasn itu berlaku di dalam sistem. dan juga tidak semestinya orang mencuri itu terus di potong tangannya. kena tgk faktor mitigasinya. kalau di potong pun masih ada hujahan tahap atau bahagian mana yg mesti kena potong….

    soalnya disini, sebagai org islam mengapa kita lebih selesa mentadbir undang2 jenayah yg lima itu dibawah undang2 common law ciptaan manusia berbanding undang2 hudud ciptaan Tuhan?

    JMD : Hanya satu yang saya hendak tekankan. Jika objektif PAS hendak melaksanakan Hudud dan jika mereka tidak melaksanakannya dianggap berdosa, maka apalah sangat yang mereka boleh capai jika cuma bekerjasama dengan DAP dan PKR?

    Saudara juga berkata – ‘sebab itu pas apabila mereka mempunyai kuasa (kuasa yg memadai dan selayaknya – kuasa federal) maka mereka tetap akan melaksanakan hudud.’

    Ini tidak mungkin terjadi jika mereka menjalinkan hubungan dengan dua parti tersebut. Ini yang saya hendak tekankan. Mengapa PAS menjadi hipokrit? Mengapa mengambil jalan yang lebih sukar? Ini seperti yang saudara tulis diatas, juga adalah ‘political exercise’.

    Disebabkan motif untuk melaksanakan hudud ini sudah tertakluk kepada satu ‘political exercise’, maka kita sudah nampak cara permainan PAS yang tidak ikhlas.

    Komen pertama saya dalam ruangan komentar kepada Abdullah adalah relevan di sini.

    Terima kasih.

    Like

  39. Nidroon,

    I am not sure comparing the rate of crime of Saudi and Egypt is fair taking into account the big difference in the economic prosperity of those 2 countries.

    Austria and Denmark for example have a low crime rate comparable to Saudi without having harsh penal laws like lashings and the death penalty.

    The problem with most repeat offenders is their inability to integrate into society. Society doesnt necessarily adopt the view that those convicts have paid their dues in prison and should, upon their release be allowed a second chance in life.

    What would happen is that, society attaches a stigma to these convicts, That in turn would cause them, among others, not to be able to get a steady job. They would then resort to the only way they know how to survive, to turn back to the life of crime.

    Sometime in 2007, the British defence company, BAE, was highlighted in the press as having paid close to $2 billion in kickbacks to Saudi’s Prince Bandar for agreeing to buy British defence equipments. Of course on the account of his station in life, he escapes prosecution. Hudud or otherwise, it would apperar that his decision to accept bribe has nothing to do with fear of whatever punishment Hudud promises.

    I believe the motivation that cause people to commit crime is complex. To think that the implementation of Hudud would cause crime rate to fall would be wishful thinking at best.

    Like

  40. Salam brader jebat,

    Membaca komen saudara Nidroon Damha, saya ingin membetulkan
    sedikit fakta berkenaan pihak yahudi diberi pilihan untuk dijatuhkan hukuman.

    Ini di ceritakan dalam peristiwa, Pengkhiatan Yahudi Quraizhah dimana pihak yahudi meminta di adili oleh Saad ibn Muaz,.. Baginda membenarkan pilihan ini kerana hukuman agama mereka adalah lebih keras dari yang termaktub dalam Islam.

    Ihsan Islam di sini ialah jika pihak yahudi menerima hukum yang di tetapkan dalam Islam, maka ada ruang kemaafan untuk mereka.

    Salam.

    Like

  41. Lekiu,

    Thanks for your comment.

    If you had noticed in my earlier comment, Idid mentioned that one of the prerequisites to implement hudud, qisas and ta’azir is that it must be an Islamic State where its core value system of life must adhere rigidly to the teachings of our Holy Prophet based on the Holy Quran and his Sunnah. Another prerequisites is that the environment must be condusive where the State is reguired to assist the community to have basic needs of food clothing and shelter.As such implementing hudud alone cannot be the only solution to reduce crime.

    Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic state but merely a Muslim state. Admittedly my comparison of crime statistics between the two countries is not an ideal example as Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic state. As such I am also not surprised that the prince is involved in corrupt practice as the state core value system of life does not rigidly adhere to the teachings of our Holy Prophet. Anyway, bribery is not a crime classified under hudud.

    Like

  42. @ andipool

    Quote:
    Average Joe,
    The crimes you mentioned are nothing compared to the crimes committed by the Malays–incest–screwing their own 1 yr old child, 7 fellows raping one underage girl, raping a girl and burning her body and so forth. Jenayah jenayah ini langsung tak masuk akal dan paling terkutuk didunia–lebih teruk dari binatang. As for PAS to acquire 2/3majority in parliament–you can go on dreaming in your dreamland. You mentioned they have got 3 states under their control–why didnt they implement hudud laws–simply b’cos the constitution did’nt allow.
    So now you all are waiting to amend the constitution to allow hudud laws to be implemented–use your brainlah not your stupid emotions–malaysia is made up 50% muslims and 50% non muslims–you think the non malays will support the hudud law–you carry on dreaming .

    Do I need to translate “kalau” into English? Even the original purpose of this article is wo warn the non-Muslims of the possible consequences of voting for the likes of PAS since PAS together with DAP and PKR would never be able to form a stable and efficient government. If you really read my comments, WHEN did I ever call for Hudud to be implemented?! Now, who has been DAY DREAMING? I am telling you don’t day-dream to have DAP-PKR-nonMalays controlling 2/3 or even 1/2 of the parliament either!

    A simple message by JMD in his article is THAT if you nonMuslims don’t want hudud (as well as that you’ve been increasingly against anything Muslim and anything Malay), then DON’T be hypocrite by voting for PAS. Itu pun susah sangat nak faham?! Kononnya bijak, pandai dan berfikiran terbuka.

    And as a matter of fact, Muslim-nonMuslim composition in Malaysia (2000 Census) is 61-39 (an increase from 56-44 in 1991 Census) and not 50-50 like what you’re day-dreaming in your dreamland. 50-50 was 1957’s figure. For how many decades have you been day-dreaming, dude?

    You are dead wrong if you are to imply that those cruel crimes are central or unique to the Malays. Already you forget the case of a Chinese mother in Penang letting her daughter to die in the hands of the mother’s own boyfriend? – who raped, murdered and burnt the daughter? WHAT KIND of mother is this? This was also reported in newspapers. Giving away your child to be raped and murdered by someone you know is just as evil as (if not worse than) incests. This is worse than animals too, but since the offenders were Chinese then you’d never mention about it!

    And to say (example) triad gang criminals are “nothing” in comparison to incest/rape is not morally correct either, considering that many lives have being made miserable by them – even national security is at stake because of these triad activities. To say that these are “nothing” in comparison to whatever crime – is pretty dumb.

    JMD : Ditto.

    Like

  43. pelik. semua orang bukan islam duk kata kalau ada hudud, ramai orang kena potong tangan. bagi diorang, hudud = potong tangan. hadoi la… kang kalau buat kelas hudud kat sekolah, pakcik lim ngan uncle karpal marah pulak.

    anyways, nice touch kali ni wahai pakcik jebat. being the devil’s advocate, membuatkan penyokong PR membuka pekung di dada mereka sendiri.

    sokong PAS, hudud. tapi tanak hudud. tapi tanak sokong UMNO jugak. tapi kalau PAS berkuasa (bersama PR) pun, hudud tak dapat jalan sebab tak cukup orang islam. maka kena gang ngan UMNO, tapi tanak pulak, sebab UMNO lebih kafir dari DAP. hmmph.

    JMD : Good summary!🙂

    Like

  44. Andipool,

    Your statements are deeply hurtful. We all are adults and are able to tolerate a difference of opinion. But what you said, goes beyond reason.

    Anyone with a modicum of common sense will tell you that the human race propsensity for violence goes beyond race and religion. Blame it on the limbic system in our brain that cause some of us to exhibit violent behaviour.

    Violence can be personal, causing direct harm or impersonal, by pressing a button thousand of miles away and launching a devastating missile strike. Every society, every nation on this God’s great planet have exhibited naked aggression.

    How do we conclude fairly that one race is more violent than the other ?

    Throw an opinion and back up your arguments if you will, but temper it with reason and a sense of respect for that faceless someone commenting here.

    JMD : Thank you Lekiu.

    Like

  45. Hi JMD,

    I the topic may be a bit old, but Dato’ Ahmad Said more or less communicated your underlying message in a more apt and straightforward manner. He is reported to have said “You baik sama saya, saya pun baik sama you. You tak baik sama saya, saya sepuluh kali tak baik sama you”.

    From a devil’s advocate point of view,
    a) Do you agree with him.
    b) Should the Chinese vote UMNO not because of the non-existent threat of hudud, as it is not a threat, but because if they don’t, who knows what the State Government will do.

    Eager minds will like to hear your take on this
    Wassalam
    Wenger J Khairy
    Solicitor Extraordinaire

    JMD : Sorry mate, but Mat Said missed completely on what I had implied in this article. I was unveiling the variety of perspectives that need to be clarified further into caches of issues. Please read Lordapes’ comment above and Jojo51 among others.

    Mat Said on the other hand, (if what he had said was true) had unfortunately issued out threats. It’s not even a veiled threat but a blatant one indeed. You simply cannot demean the intelligence of your voters by threatening them to vote you instead of your opponent.

    In other words, he is saying, “vote for me, I’ll be nice to you, if you do not vote for me, I’ll be ten times nasty to you.” Yes, that is straigthforward. Straightforward evil and shoot up straight arrogance.

    Now why would the government consciously wants to be nasty to the people (and telling them about it), if they do not comply with it (the govt)? If he finds this totally acceptable then he and I have different sets of values.

    In the first place, Mat Said wouldn’t have been made the MB by the Agong (Sultan Terengganu) if he was not firstly elected as the ADUN by the rakyat. He became forgetful after just 10 months on the job?

    I am sure you would know the local sentiment about the Umno campaign there in KT. They are in shambles. One of the local voter there stated that the biggest issue in KT is one of the smallest issue ever (Wan Farid is arrogant). Is there no brilliant Oxbridge strategist that could counter this propaganda? Surely after brilliantly having the foresight of the aftermath in choosing this candidate, they had prepared the groundwork to whip up a positive campaign to win the hearts of KT.

    It is unfortunate to learn that the mantra used by Umno Youth – ‘PAS kluk klek’ is being turned as a joke that backfires Umno (Pak Lah is the King of flip flops anyway).

    Probably I had too much coffee this morning or maybe today is just a slow day for me. But I simply failed to understand the point of those questions. What is it do you want? You, as the devil’s advocate, asking me those questions? Or I answer those questions in that role you stated?

    Anyway, if you want to win the hearts of non Malays in KT, I cannot agree with this arrogant statement. What is he? Jury, judge and executioner?

    Mate, as for your 2nd question, in the first place, any voters there (not only the non Malays) will not vote out of fear (this is a by election – either result will not change the federal government) but they will vote with the party that will offer them the most socially, economically, moral values, fairness, sense of purpose and belonging etc. They will certainly not be voting Umno out of fear of what the State government will do to them. Afterall, they have MCA and Gerakan as leverage.

    Think about it. I heard you are concocting campaign materials for Umno. Can’t wait to see them. Thank you.

    Like

  46. Dear Lekiu,
    I am sorry if my comments have hurt you. But the fact is, I am just writing that are published and aired in the Mainstream Media. Even last week the NST carried an article on rape and incest–in which it says the malays form the bulk of the rapists and incestual rape. And pls be reminded, propensity to violence and lust are 2 different things. I was just responding to JMD who said let all the non malays vote Pas, so that they can form a govt and introduce HUDUD laws–this was sort of grudgingly written.
    Let me tell you this story–which is more hurting. I am an East Malaysian married to an Indian. About 10 years ago, we were staying in a Taman with a predominantly malay race. We have a only son–who inherited my skin complexion and the mothers sharp features. Despite that whenever he plays with the malay boys–they will call him anak keling. He will run back to us and ask “why are they calling me anak keling”. I use to tell him it means anak Malaysia. But my wife will always be very hurt with those derogatory terms. One day I decided to confront one of the children’s parents to advice their child to refrain from calling my son anak keling. The father answered your son would have provoked my son. But the most damning comment came from the mother–isteri awak bukan keling ah.. This shows the parents are the ones who teach the children to call Indians/keling. But what can I do–it is a case of might is right–I went back broken hearted and didnt inform my wife anything but decided to move out of the malay majortiy Taman and move into a chinese majority Taman. Now my son is 17yrs old–never once he came back to say the word anak keling. But the chinese call my son LENG CAI–handsome boy. So who was hurt more….

    JMD : All these personal experience is counter productive. Other people may rebut this with their own version of painful experience from the other side. In the end, it will only reveal how acute the problem we are facing. Probably some of the incidences are over-hyped. Some may be underrated.

    But what is important is education. Bring back the lessons on Tatarakyat or Sivik etc in primary school (in a streamlined education system). Educators must be more sensitive to the needs of each race intermingling with one another. They also need to be aware of the decadent values of the society and find ways to mitigate the social ills and nip it in the bud.

    Like

  47. Dear JMD,

    I totally agree with you on this statement:
    “But what is important is education. Bring back the lessons on Tatarakyat or Sivik etc in primary school (in a streamlined education system). Educators must be more sensitive to the needs of each race intermingling with one another. They also need to be aware of the decadent values of the society and find ways to mitigate the social ills and nip it in the bud.”

    JMD : Thank you for the comment.

    Like

  48. Andipool,

    We all have personal stories of not so pleasant encounter(s). But we all let go of such not so nice episode in our lives and move on, believing that there are more people in this world with good intentions than there are of bigots. I am sure for every 1 bigoted person out there, there are 100 or more who are not.

    You cant allow one or two hurtful episodes that affect you and thereafter hold a grudge against the whole Malay race.

    If the human race were to use your response as yardstick, the world will never forgive the Germans and the Japanese for committing atrocities during WW2, the African Americans will issue a blanket blame to all whites for their part in slavery.

    Unless my old age is causing my memory to suffer, I remember reading somehwere that lust and violence is controlled by the same reptilian side of our brain.

    JMD : No lah Lekiu. You’re not old. There were indeed books discussing about our ancient reptilian part of the brain where it controls our most primal behaviours – among them, lust, violence and appetite. Bunch of theories anyway. Wallahu’alam.

    Have a good holiday🙂

    Like

  49. Salam all…

    @ Lekiu

    You cant allow one or two hurtful episodes that affect you and thereafter hold a grudge against the whole Malay race.

    Can’t agree more. Likewise, if Malays are to adopt the same rationale used by Andipool i.e. direct racial profiling just because a few hurtful encounters, then the Malays will have even more grudge to hold against the nonMalays.

    @ Andipool

    So, with the recent emergence of Indians influenced by HINDRAF to stage violent street protest (various news report about this in mainstream media, too!), would you agree if I (of course I won’t) put a racial profiling saying that Indians tend to forment communal hatred and violent riots?

    Contrary to your heartbroken story, an Indian ex-neighbour of mine clearly told me that he and his family prefer a Malay-majority neighbourhood over non-Malay-majority areas. And it’s not actually surprising when he said further that Indian-majority area is strictly NO, NO, NO for him. They are happy being part of 90%-Malay Seksyen 4, Bandar Baru Bangi since the last 20 years and recently they happily settled down in Malay-majority Seri Astana, Gombak.

    Like

  50. Dear lekiu,

    I once again apologise for the hurtful comment and accept your wise adivise.
    But pls don’t categorise me as a Malay hater–I just accept there are some bigots. In fact a lot of my office mates are Malays and I get along with them very well. In fact most of the times I am mistaken for a Malay–but I am a christian bumiputra. My son has forgotten the past episode and now he even has Malay girlfriends.
    Thank you

    Like

  51. Average Joe,

    Since you brought up the issue of Hindraf–I am not an Indian but my son is half Indian–I feel compelled to ask you—if Hindraf didn’t come to the limelight–the Indians would have been loyally voting for the BN govt and they take for granted the Indian support and after winning continue marginalising the Indians. They prefer SamyVelu who will ampu the govt and at the same time sapu the Indian’s share in the govt and enrich himself at the expence of the Indians. Go to any govt dept–95% are Malays–but the national Malay population is about 50% only–they masukkan orang orang bumiputra Sabah/Sarawak dan jadikan 65%–itu pun tak layak orang Melayu dominate 95% of the civil service–population of Indians around 9%–but in civil service only got about 1%–is this their share for their loyalty. For 50 years–the Indians have been voting the BN loyally–but what they got. In education they are discriminated–bright students deprived of scholarships and education of their choice. For hundreds of years the Indians have been toiling in the estates and contributing economically to the country. Even that have been deprived to them and replaced with migrant workers. The govt just didnt bother to give them Felda like schemes to let them continue with their livelihood. But these people are forced to migrate to towns looking for jobs. But unfortunately some of their children are forced to commit crime in the name of survival. The Malay dominated polis have killed more than 80 of them in the lockups–the latest being Kugans case. As for racial profiling, can you tell me was there anything mentioned about name calling the Malays in the media. But the Malays easily call the Indians Keling,pariah and so forth. In the case of the Perak state assembly a woman called the Indians ular–openly, in shah alam, a female school teacher called the Indian students keling,pariah and negro,the MP Tajudin calling MP Kula keling openly in parliament–these incidents were reported in the media. So when the Hindraf leaders asked for the rights of the Indians they were mercilessly put behind bars under the draconian ISA law. Is this not a classical case of Might is Right–the Malays can do anything they like but the other races just have to shut their mouth. If you use this yardstick, then what the USA and Israel is doing with their might is right–the others just keep their mouth shut.

    JMD : Just when we could see the other side of Andipool, you revert yourself to the same Andipool I am familiar with🙂

    Firstly, I believe Hindraf is very aggressive in trying to promote their agenda. An agenda which was very misguided and misleading. I do not have to discuss into the slanders they perpetuated in their memorandum submitted to the King in November 2007.

    Secondly, why the sudden racialised view of the Kugan case? His relative said this today (the Star)

    His uncle, Ravi Roy, 42, had earlier told the media said that the family was not blaming the police force for Kugan’s death, but was merely seeking the truth.

    “We are not blaming the entire police force, all we want is for the people who are responsible to be brought to justice,” he said at the Bandar Kinrara home here of Kugan’s parents on Monday.

    And since his death had been classified as murder (hopefully the perpetrator will be brought to justice), why do you have to pin Umno in this? Are all police officers Umno members? This is yet another twisted slander that will only create hatred and breed racism among the people.

    And yet, the Pakatan Rakyat politicians and their fanatical hate mongers will accuse the government as racist!

    Like

  52. Andipool,

    It is good to know that your son has decided to put behind the unpleasant chapter in his life. It does show some character and good upbringing your son has had. Something to be proud of Andipool.

    My wife is a Dusun Tatana, let’s just say I have heard stories of not so pleasant encounters between people from Semenanjung and Sabahans.

    Like i keep telling my wife, there are good and bad Semenanjung people and there are good and bad Sabahans.

    JMD : Thank you Lekiu. However, some people will continue to harp on the injustice instead of trying to be more empathetic to the overall situation of our social framework. No one race can say that they have it all. Everyone of them can say that they are being treated unfairly.

    Instead of looking outward to progress, the politicians from both sides of the divide had perpetuated regression and inward looking. Nobody is looking out at the economy or our nation building efforts.

    If the country is destabilised in the near future, everyone will be guilty of its destruction. This includes the Pakatan Rakyat’s politicians. Thank you.

    Like

  53. JMD,

    Your question “why the sudden racialised view of the Kugan case?”
    The answer is herehttp://malaysiaindianabused.blogspot.com/2009/01/skugantotured-and-beaten-to-death.html

    JMD : I stand by my question. Why the sudden racialised view of the Kugan case? Yes the police committed foul by not looking at the welfare of the convict.

    And I hope the perpetrators got what they deserved. Regardless whether Kugan was a suspected car thief or not, the police must ensure the detainees are not mistreated.

    But why are you insinuating that the Malay Umno are consciously murdering Indians in this country? Is that a fair remark to make? Of course not. Hence, you are indeed spreading hatred among the people. Are you an agent of disunity? Are you a ‘schadenfreude’?

    When the family themselves lay no blame to the government, why are you being busybody jumping through hoops and bending over backwards trying to promote the idea that UMNO ARE MURDERING THE INDIANS? What is your agenda?

    Since you promote equality, please feel free to investigate how many Malays died in lock ups all through the years. You might be surprised with the findings.

    Anyway, from the Royal Police Commission report presented to the King in 2005, for the period of 2000 to 2004 alone, out of 76 cases of death in police custody, 38 (50%) were Malays while 15 of them are Indians. Were there any Malay group ala Hindraf organised activities to slander the government for all those 38 that had died?

    It is indeed sad that when people here want an Obama-esque politics in Malaysia, they became immature when certain events happened. There are many incidences of death in police custody all around the world. If the people and politicians in the US can be matured when their citizens died in police custody, why can’t the Pakatan Rakyat supporters here in Malaysia?

    Note that unfortunate events do happen. But please do not politicise this issue just to further YOUR TWISTED AGENDA.

    Again, why the sudden racialised view of the Kugan case?

    Thank you.

    Like

  54. Andipool,

    Lim Kit Siang once asked Pak Lah as the Minister of Internal Security about statistics concerning death in police lock up.

    According to Pak Lah’s written reply, the death of Malay prisoners in lock up is double the number of Indians who died. You can find the link here http://www.dapmalaysia.org/all-archive/English/2005/feb05/lks/lks3361.htm

    Stop making it a racial issue. Death of prisoners in police lock up is not acceptable and if it is found to be due to foul play, so bring the perpetrators to justice. Why is there a need to make it as a Malay vs Indian race issue ?

    JMD : Thank you Lekiu for the link.

    Like

  55. @ andipool

    Quote: Go to any govt dept–95% are Malays–but the national Malay population is about 50% only–they masukkan orang orang bumiputra Sabah/Sarawak dan jadikan 65%–itu pun tak layak orang Melayu dominate 95% of the civil service–population of Indians around 9%–but in civil service only got about 1%–is this their share for their loyalty.

    You’re not even aware (or you chose to hide the fact) that Malays (of whatever sub-ethnic/suku) make a fair share of Sabahan-Sarawakian natives, too – and the Malays I’m talking about are true Sabah-Sarawak natives, not civil/private servants posted from Semenanjung who will eventually move back to Semenanjung for retirement.

    Non-Bumiputeras are actually given 45% quota in civil service – so generous for the group that makes only 35% of the national population. But there’s nothing much the government can do if the non-Bumiputeras themselves, with a plethora of reasons, have little-to-zero interest to serve the country through civil service and worse still, harbour myriad suspicions against the civil service without even investigating. We admit that there are non-performers in civil service but their numbers are declining fast since the goverment has been doing its best to correct or to punish them. And don’t you ever spat at civil service as if those in private sectors (where the bulk of non-Malays are) are all good either.

    I believe JMD and Lekiu has done enough or almost enough to clarify on the deaths in police custody.

    Salam hormat.

    JMD : Thank you Joe.

    Like

  56. Dear JMD/Lekiu,

    I agree with your statistics, but the question is why was a young and healthy 22 year old man tortured and killed. He could have been given a jail term if he is found guilty in the courts. After which he could turn over a new leaf.
    I am not an schadenfreude–getting pleasure from observing the misery of another. As far as I know and is an undisputed fact–the polis is a dog to the Umno controlled government. They and their masters are the schadenfreude.
    Tortured and nearly more killed DSAI. Tortured Munawar to the very extreme, his SD is the evidence. The moment the opposition organises a protest they are whacked mercilessly. But if it is Umno–its ok.
    Your statistics show so many deaths in the lockup–so far how many polis personnel have been charged and sentenced to prison. Its people like you who are schadenfreude–for being a staunch supporter of Umno.
    You asked me “But why are you insinuating that the Malay Umno are consciously murdering Indians in this country? Is that a fair remark to make? ” Yes I feel it is a fair remark–simply b’cos Umno backs 100% PDRM’s actions. They have the cheek to tell off 2 Indian deputy ministers to lay off from involving in the Kugan’s murder–does it not sound racial–Syed Hamid and Hisamuddin are Malays–who didnt check what really happened and accused them of barging into the morque. But the Kapar MP’s video clip just shows the opposite–the morque attendant had willingly opened the doors for them–most probably after watching the plight of Kugan’s family members.
    Mind you, according to US investment bank Morgan Stanley once estimated the country may have lost close to $100bn to corruption since the early 1980s-the Umno cronies stole the rakyat’s money to have a lavish life at the expence of the rakyat.
    Why do the malays need a group ala Hindraf–the govt has been taking care of them well at the expence of the non malays–especially the Indians and the east malaysian bumiputras.

    JMD : This is by far the stupidest comment you had ever given. Let me get this straight; you brought up this issue about the death of a suspected car thief with prior convictions named Kugan. He was found dead in the police lockup. Police classified his death as murder and investigations are being carried out to determine what really happened and who is the culprit.
    Everyone here agreed that the guilty ones must be brought to justice. You lamented that Indians were killed by Malays when you quipped ‘The Malay dominated polis have killed more than 80 of them in the lockups–the latest being Kugans case’.
    And I criticised you for not looking at the bigger picture. I gave you data that more Malays died in police lockup than Indians. Double the numbers of Indians in fact. Therefore, the death of these people (Malay, Chinese, Indians) is not the question of racial hatred. Because, why would the ‘Umno’ Malay police kill more Malays than Indians?
    Yet, what did you do? After being forced to a corner by the statistics, you failed to realise the actual truth, that his death was an unfortunate event. Could happen to anybody, be it Malay, Indian or Chinese.
    You failed to see the forest for the trees and accused the Umno Malays as a murderous lot. Is that your new name calling card now? The Malays are murderous people?
    People can see how racist you are when you said ‘it is indeed a fair remark to make’ when you implied that the Malay Umno are consciously killing Indians in this country. An insult to my relatives who are Umno members in Melaka who had helped many Indians in their area.
    Tell me Andipool, did the millions Umno members you met in your life so far consciously tried to kill you and your family? You made an idiotic presumption which only highlighted how troubled your mind is. You are an ultra racist who hates nothing else than the Malays themselves (for how could this racist thought be so ingrained in your mind anyway?).
    Yet, you champion Bangsa Malaysia? What a joke. You cannot even shed your racist point of view towards the Malays that would enable you to live in harmony side by side with them!
    As a matter of fact, you will say anything, do anything just to see the government fall. You can say the government is corrupt or incompetent. I will support that. But to say the whole Malay leadership and the biggest party with the biggest number of members here in Malaysia are having a murderous streak is unbearable indeed. You are offending many readers here and insulting their intelligence.
    Having nothing good to say about your Malay neighbours, you continued to cite vague reports from bankrupted investment bank like Morgan Stanley to strengthen your lame but venomous attempt to disrupt the social harmony.
    This is your agenda. This is the agenda of Pakatan Rakyat. They had stooped so low that their intelligence is only driven by raw animal instinct. Gone are the subtlety and human empathy. I replied to Lekiu once – However, some people will continue to harp on the injustice instead of trying to be more empathetic to the overall situation of our social framework. No one race can say that they have it all. Everyone of them can say that they are being treated unfairly. Instead of looking outward to progress, the politicians from both sides of the divide had perpetuated regression and inward looking.
    This is what you are and what you had become. Why are you regressing and become a Malay hater?What is more insulting is that you chose to ignore the higher number of Malays that died in police custody as if they meant nothing to you. What is important is the death of this suspected car thief. And how to politicise it.
    Did you think that the other families of those poor souls that died were insignificant and inconsequential?
    Why harping on this one Indian guy? And according to you, the police now, after having given instructions by Umno are off killing Indians in lockups. Are you bereft of your senses?
    The extent of your sick mind and the ramifications of your stupid comment will reverberate in the minds of the Malay readers here. You are accusing all of them as murderous lot. If not them, then their relatives (lets face it, which Malay who doesn’t have a relative in Umno?).
    Think before you type something. Or else, do not write at all. You are insulting me Andipool. Being Malay myself, I cannot tolerate this incredulous notion that you had written. Stop wasting my time with your racist taunts. Thank you.

    For your further reading, please read this.

    Like

  57. perghh… a strong reply dari JMD!

    Betul jugak kata dia.. kalau saudara si Kugan pun dah kata dia tak blame the police force cuma nak mereka yg terlibat terima pembalasannya, apahal pulak si andipool bodoh ni nak tuduh semua anggota polis sebgai anjing atau pembunuh kaum india?

    You are right JMD when you said :- They had stooped so low that their intelligence is only driven by raw animal instinct.

    Mereka mereka yang irasional spt pemimpin pakatan rakyat ni jangan biarkan jadi pemimpin.

    Is this the characteristics of the so called government in waiting? Cheh! Memang memalukan.. bila takde isu, cipta isu.. lepas tu isu yang racist pulak tu..

    JMD : Thank you for the comment. They are people out there who has nothing else to do in their free time except to create racial tension out of nothing.

    Like

  58. JMD

    Re UMNO’s stand, I think the fault lies not in being moderate and tolerant.
    UMNO does not need to take the Islamist approach.

    The fault lies in the leadership sucking up to the Chinese voters, believing that they are the so-called kingmakers in the PRK KT. The apparent desperation in winning KT especially when a highly unpopular candidate
    was placed there, the bickering and the animosity between the former and the current MB factions, the dire need to show success at the March General Assembly, etc.

    Imagine, committing RM50 million to vernacular schools when that school system has been an impediment to efforts at building national unity and the creation of a Bangsa Malaysia, when proponents of that system had been openly challenging Bahasa Kebangsaan and advocating the use of Mandarin, the official language of a foreign country. It resulted in UMNO losing twice – once on the KT seat, the other on respect for Bahasa Kebangsaan and Malay dignity.

    UMNO should continue to be moderate and tolerant but be firm and don’t give in to unreasonable demands and must never offer or give up what may constitute Malay right, dignity or respect.

    The problem has been weak leadership, pervasive corruption and endless money politics (only recently acknowledged as corruption). The non-Malays have exploited these, making all sorts of unreasonable demands.

    The Malays have been “generous enough” on so many occasions – agreeing to citizenship for the non-Malays at Merdeka, relaxing citizenship laws after Merdeka. They read the wording “respecting the legitimate interest of the others” in the Constitutional Clause 153 so favourably for the non-Malays that vernacular schools were allowed, whereas it would have been sufficient for the UMNO-led government to ensure that the non-Malays were allowed to practice their language, religion and culture privately in ways that would not subvert the developmment of a national language and culture and a Bangsa Malaysia.

    The Malays even asked for only 30% of corporate wealth under the NEP – mind you, with majority racial composition, we asked only less than a third. And, note that it is only corporate wealth being asked so far, not the other forms of wealth.

    We lose out due to overgenerosity. We lose out due to corruption. And we lose out due to weak leadership.

    What UMNO needs to do is stamp out corruption and root out money politics.
    For that, UMNO members have to vote in strong leaders, those with high moral values and the political will to do so.

    Like

  59. JMD

    A clarification –

    My comments preceding this were on the post-PRK KT situation whereas your article was pre-PRK KT scenario.

    But I think there’s no relevancy issue.

    Best wishes.

    Like

  60. JMD

    I have just realised that my earlier comments have disturbed the flow of the discussion in this blog.

    I apologise. I’m new to blogging. Will respect the flow in future.

    My earkier clicking didn’t appear to work but I hope the clicking after this won’t produce a second printing & cluttering your blog.

    Best wishes.

    JMD : No problem Sepadu. Thank you for the comments. All are welcome.

    Like

  61. Dear JMD,
    This hits out to those who accused any of uniform bodies (police, army, bomba, etc). And I think this one more towards remarks made by andipool.

    Before you accusing these men in uniform acting as one of any political organisations, do really can differentiate their line and scope of duty? Do you realise that they cannot join any political organisation until they resign or retire from service? They act on behalf of acts and laws that have been passed in Parliament to protect the country within and outside the country.

    Some may say, police especially acting for UMNO, but I disagree. Their duty is in line with serving the country, people and government. Since current government is BN, they seem to be seen serving BN. In the event PR take over, police will be seen acting for them. Oh yea, by the way, has anyone accused police acting on behalf of any PR party that rule the 5 staes – Kelantan, Penang, Kedah, Selangor and Perak?

    And andipool, by your argument, I’m taking a wild guess that you are saying that police is acting as UMNO member.

    Please understand their role and we should also be able to differentiate between their line of duty and your perception. Please read any act in regards with their line of service and I challenge you to find there’s a clause saying that they can join any political organisation.

    Since the investigation for Kugan case is in process, let them be.

    However, to those who are accusing police is acting on behalf of UMNO, what if, the findings later on shows these possibilities:
    a) the culprit is not malay officer;
    b) the culprit has nothing to do with affiliations with any political organisation;
    c) the culprit is indeed has connections with political organisation (which this act by this is wrong), but not with UMNO..just with any other parties other than UMNO;

    And one more question – in which state Kugan was found dead? Under BN’s? Why must UMNO being accused? Because it has “Malay” name all oevr it? Is that it?

    Please be rationale in your comments.

    Thank you.

    Like

  62. Andipool,

    No one is taking pleasure from the violent death of someone else. Rather than blame the police and UMNO, you should take a dig at the Opposition parties for trying to gain political mileage from the tragic death of Kuhan.

    A responsible politician would ask those involved to calm down and allow due process to take place. But instead they created a circus to rile up the sentiments of the people.

    It would appear Andipool, your hatred towards UMNO/Malay is deep rooted. No amount of reason advanced by any commenters here would make you change your mind.

    You complaint about your stagnant career, yet you persist in staying with the Government, enjoying the comforts and safety aspect that comes with Government service. If you really believe that your talents are being overlooked, take a leap of faith and get into business or join the private sector rather than drown your sorrow in bitter resentment.

    JMD : Thank you for the comment Lekiu!

    Like

  63. Pingback: PAS is stronger without PR « On da street

  64. JMD
    I’ve been folowing your tussle with andipool for some time and i’ve come to the conclusion that this andipool charactor is a pure blackhearted racial chauvanist-anti-malay! and I salute you for the strong comments/answers, which I doubt will ever passed through to his thick, obssesed mind. His resentment toward the malay is so severe that he is ever ready to point his fingure to the ‘malay’ authority even when the case is still under investigation. As far as the Kugen case is concern, andipool has already made his conclusion that it was ‘the UMNO-backed MALAY police officer/officers who did it. This is a classic example of an anti-malay attitude and I sincerely hope that the ‘chinese woman ketuk ketampi’ episode does not repeat itself.
    To my dear andipool, have a little bit of patience in your heart, wait till the police complete their investigation, wait for the hospital’s post-mortem before your come to any conclusions. What if ondastreet assumption is right i.e the culprit is not a malay ( maybe an Indian officer itself because normally indian officers are used to interogate indian suspects for communication reason) I am sure andipool will sing a different tune. Whatever it is i am sure his fingure will find another malay to point at.
    JMD, for a racial chauvanist like andipool, if the findings of the investigation are not to his liking, he will be ready with lots of new excuses-thrust me on this. My guest will be the magic word of his ‘mata-lebam’ mentor:CONSPIRACY or COVER-UP. And the whole boring ‘re run’ will be staged all over again.

    Thank you.

    Like

  65. JMD,

    I think you have no right to accuse me of wasting your time in responding to my comments in your blog. As far as I am concerned, blogs are public domain, anybody can access and read it’s contents and they can respond to the writings freely. But of course it is the right of the blogger to use their discretion to publish or not the comments from its readers. You accused me of being an ultra racialist in the case of Kugan. You call me a Malay hater—when in actual fact you know I am a staunch supporter of Pakatan Rakyat—which is made up PKR Malays and Pas Malays who outnumber the Umno Malays. It shows how foolish and inciter you are. Ok now I ask you, isnt it a fact that every actions in Malaysia are guided by race mentality. The BN is comprised of racial parties like UMNO,MCA.MIC and so forth. But the dominant UMNO is the one which formulates policies for the country which benefits the Malays more than the other races–a typical eg is the NEP. You call it affirmative policy–but in actual fact it is a discriminative policy. The racist UMNO has succeeded in indoctrinating the Malay mind that every action must reflect Ketuanan Melayu—head of dept, VCs and so forth. It is so ingrained in the system that even PR ruled states have succumbed to this system—the acting head of PKNS was a Chinese—the Malays created a big hue and cry. What you call this—APARTEID- the most blatant form of racial discrimination. And the people who support and implement such policies are considered the highest pedigree of RACIALIST. Each and every leader of their parties strive for the benefit of their own race. Wasn’t Najib—murderer cum big time white collar robbler– an ultra when he said that he wanted to bathe in the blood of the Chinese. Wasn’t Hishamudin an ultra when he wielded his keris to warn the other races of not questioning Malay rights. Just b’cos I expressed my sympathy for Kugan and questioned the barbaric way he was murdered in the lockup–you accused me of being an ultra racialist. It is natural for a member of one race to question atrocities committed against another member of the race. That’s why you have Police Watch and Hindraf to monitor abuses committed against the Indians. You also said that I was cornered with statistics—what nonsense is this. You only showed the number but not a single picture to show those non Indians who died in Police custody also died of torture—as in the case of Kugan and other Indians. Anyway Kugan was just a suspected car thief—he was not charged in any court of law neither is a convict. But the most stupidest and irrational statement came from an Umno Minister—who said don’t make a criminal a hero and the polis a villain. Now all this while who has been making criminals a hero. It is the BN—95% of whom sit in positions of authority and steal the rakyat’s money—so far how many of them have been arrested by the polis or ACA and charged in court. Chief of them is the King White collar robber—Dictator Mahathir Mohamad. Transparency International’s Index rating is proof that people in authority in Malaysia are mostly corrupted. Muhd the million dollar smuggler who was caught red handed in Australia is the Information Chief of Umno—so what type information can he convey to the Malaysian public. If not Stanley Morgan wouldn’t have come up with the figure of 300 billion ringgit being squandered during TDM’s era. This statistics was also supported by the internationally renowned economist Prof Jomo Sundram. You can have your own perception of him—but his credentials have been recognized by the UN and is the economic adviser to the world body. Hence big time robbers and even murderers like Najib, the killers of Kugan are walking around free and have been assigned desk job. But a mere suspect has been brutally tortured and killed. I hold each and every Umno members VICARIOUSLY LIABLE for placing these Umno criminals in positions of authority. Why isn’t the Polis not under the influence of Umno—if not how come the IGP’s son been given the helicopter rental contract worth 20 billion ringgit.

    JMD : Thank you Andipool for the comment. I feel we have come to the conclusion that this discussion is already redundant. All of your arguments above had been dissected, discussed, counter argued among ourselves for countless of times. Yes, every action in Malaysia is guided by racial mentality. That is why in Perak under the PR government, unfair decisions were made that favoured the chinese. When Umno holds power, it favours the Malays. When DAP is in power, they favor the chinese. Even PR could not escape this mindset. Therefore, we can safely conclude, not everything is good when the PR is in power. And not everything is bad when BN is in power. As for the pictures of the deaths in police custody, I am amazed that you had become so petty! Obviously there were no pictures because the relatives did not take the pictures. But the absence of pictures did not mean there were no torture etc. Again, you had put more importance on his death and made mockery of other people’s death. Is this not a racialized mindset too? I had said, Kugan’s death was unfortunate and I emphatise with the family. However, your continuous effort to incite hate does reflect your mentality. What is wrong with you? I see no point in continuing this discussion further because if you read back all of the discussions we made, it had become repetitious. Thank you.

    P.S. Hope your family and your wife’s extended family had a blissful Thaipusam last weekend.

    PPS : I had tried to find some links concerning allegations that Najib had said he will bathe his keris with chinese blood. Do you have the news cutting or the evidence as when exactly that had happened? Thank you.

    PPPS : Again, nobody here had seen the Morgan Stanley report. I am very much interested to know their methodology in getting that figure…

    Like

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